We want some attention over here.

[saberman]

I still remember arresting suspects back in those days.

[Jaga848]

SugarD, stop trying to act smart while in fact you know nothing about VCMP's fighting style or VCMP in general.

[Gandalf]

We only take action or check if there is a situation where it seems the general server rules are broken.
As the admin team requested a rule book on which glitches/bug using is allowed and which is not, the only way to stop was ensuring all glitching is disallowed.
That this stopped techniques which were allowed in the past is the unfortunate result of players not being able to follow simple rules. If the players, and that fully includes the management of VC:MP, show that they can respect the rules of Argonath RPG, we can discuss if this can be used.

As long as I see in chatlogs disrespect to owners, giving zero attention to helping new players and the attitude that some players have which is more fitting to Paruni as to Argonath RPG, no chance of this coming back.

[Marcell]

SugarD, stop trying to act smart while in fact you know nothing about VCMP's fighting style or VCMP in general.

chill out, saying that won't change his way of seeing things, the communication is head-to-wall.

[SugarD]

SugarD, stop trying to act smart while in fact you know nothing about VCMP's fighting style or VCMP in general.

VC:MP's fighting style has nothing to do with this. As Gandalf even said, fighting belongs in our sister community, not here.

chill out, saying that won't change his way of seeing things, the communication is head-to-wall.

Agreed. What people are seeing from me is "oh, he's trying to ruin our server". What they don't realize is I'm trying to help these guys out, not ruin their fun. Some have just gotten so used to the way things became here that the change is in-sighting fear and making them think that all their abilities are being taken away.

It never should have gotten to this point to begin with. We are all here to have fun so we can have a good time. For some, what has happened here was preventing that. I'm sure you, the users who disagree with me, and I, both don't want to see that. We may have differing views, but we all know something was wrong here. We should be working together to fix things, not arguing over it. I know I'm not the only one either who is seeing these problems from either side of the argument.

Let us work towards a better server, and a better community, from this point forward. If those who wish to still do the things Gandalf mentioned continue to do so, then they will have what's coming to them. For the rest of us, it is no longer a worry as we can now focus on having fun again.

[stormeus]

The notion that the VC:MP server should allow glitches because of being in a predominantly deathmatch environment is a rather null point. Hundreds of deathmatch servers exist across any GTA multiplayer modification, as that's basically the nature of the game itself. However, Argonath is a roleplay community -- and let me stress that again -- community. As such, we do not govern ourselves according to the mod's norm, but according to the community's norm.

Moreover, these changes to the rules progressively detach the server from that community. With detachment comes separation, and with separation comes more conflict. The server becomes less appealing to players within even the same community, and over time, the server evolves into something beyond recognition as an Argonath server. Let me also stress that we are a roleplay community, and that glitching and fast switch do not (or at least, should not) make or break a roleplay scenario.

EDIT: It would be best for everyone here to gain a sense of point of view. Imagine owning a server and having a (relatively) complex administrative layout. You appoint people you trust entirely to govern the server according to your principles, only to discover that the rules are being bent to allow not only fast switch (which is not an issue in and of itself), but even wallglitching.

Likewise, the owners should imagine that, as regular players, these changes are being made too drastically and too quickly for anyone to enjoy them, and that the regular players on that server probably would outlash. However, over time, it would become less of an issue as people learn how to play the game without having to rely on features that were injected into the client, or glitches that are unnatural for the game.

And one last word -- if your first issue with this is "unskilled" players being able to shoot you, maybe you should (once again) pay more attention to the roleplaying aspect of the server and teaching them to play along.

[SugarD]

The notion that the VC:MP server should allow glitches because of being in a predominantly deathmatch environment is a rather null point. Hundreds of deathmatch servers exist across any GTA multiplayer modification, as that's basically the nature of the game itself. However, Argonath is a roleplay community -- and let me stress that again -- community. As such, we do not govern ourselves according to the mod's norm, but according to the community's norm.

Moreover, these changes to the rules progressively detach the server from that community. With detachment comes separation, and with separation comes more conflict. The server becomes less appealing to players within even the same community, and over time, the server evolves into something beyond recognition as an Argonath server. Let me also stress that we are a roleplay community, and that glitching and fast switch do not (or at least, should not) make or break a roleplay scenario.

EDIT: It would be best for everyone here to gain a sense of point of view. Imagine owning a server and having a (relatively) complex administrative layout. You appoint people you trust entirely to govern the server according to your principles, only to discover that the rules are being bent to allow not only fast switch (which is not an issue in and of itself), but even wallglitching.

Likewise, the owners should imagine that, as regular players, these changes are being made too drastically and too quickly for anyone to enjoy them, and that the regular players on that server probably would outlash. However, over time, it would become less of an issue as people learn how to play the game without having to rely on features that were injected into the client, or glitches that are unnatural for the game.

And one last word -- if your first issue with this is "unskilled" players being able to shoot you, maybe you should (once again) pay more attention to the roleplaying aspect of the server and teaching them to play along.

Very well said!

[Marcell]

It never should have gotten to this point to begin with. We are all here to have fun so we can have a good time. For some, what has happened here was preventing that. I'm sure you, the users who disagree with me, and I, both don't want to see that. We may have differing views, but we all know something was wrong here. We should be working together to fix things, not arguing over it. I know I'm not the only one either who is seeing these problems from either side of the argument.
Let us work towards a better server, and a better community, from this point forward. If those who wish to still do the things Gandalf mentioned continue to do so, then they will have what's coming to them. For the rest of us, it is no longer a worry as we can now focus on having fun again.

You are the only one who doesn't have fun cause of such a small thing - if you have such problems with shootouts, why do you participate in them? You have a false reflection of what the server is, and what the server needs to be - you think you're helping people, you think you're helping the server, but all you do is whining and annoying other people.

In fact, you guys are perfect example of what I described in my previous post

It's those kind of people; those kind of people who manage to fail at everything due to their own fault, and try finding rules which can be used as a weapon, then turn that weapon against other people, only due to their mood. This can be used in variety of ways - you kill me in combat? I'll say how you fight, is glitching and using bugs, since people don't fight like that in single player! What, you took my parked car? I'll report you for car jacking! What, I don't like you and you want to join my tea party? Gtfo, you're ruining my roleplay!

sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority, you blindly follow them no matter what, you're the kind of people who start being angry after someone writes a single fucking sentence with caps lock pressed on by mistake, just cause it's stated in the rules 'don't overuse the caps lock' ....

[SugarD]

You are the only one who doesn't have fun cause of such a small thing - if you have such problems with shootouts, why do you participate in them? You have a false reflection of what the server is, and what the server needs to be - you think you're helping people, you think you're helping the server, but all you do is whining and annoying other people.

In fact, you guys are perfect example of what I described in my previous post

sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority, you blindly follow them no matter what, you're the kind of people who start being angry after someone writes a single f**king sentence with caps lock pressed on by mistake, just cause it's stated in the rules 'don't overuse the caps lock' ....

1. I don't participate in shootouts. I put out fires. That does not mean I support glitching.
2. You said it yourself. Rules which were approved at the start of the server/community. These rules that are now being enforced have been from the start. Some just decided to not pay attention to them and break them anyway. You have only supported my point further with that statement.

[stormeus]

sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority

To be fair, these rules have been in place since before VC:MP even existed.

• Using glitches that give you an advantage over other players is strictly forbidden.
• Attempts to avoid or ignore administration punishment aren't allowed in any way.

http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Rules

• Glitch abuse is strictly prohibited.
  
  • do not abuse glitches to your advantage

http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/VC:MP_Server_Rules

• Argonath administration team will devote their time primarily to keep players following the guidelines. They apply for this knowingly, and will be given rights and levels according to their devotion, ability to help out others and follow the guidelines given to them. If at any time admins feel not able to continue their devotion to admin guidelines, they are invited to resign.

http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Vision

[Gandalf]

You are the only one who doesn't have fun cause of such a small thing - if you have such problems with shootouts, why do you participate in them? You have a false reflection of what the server is, and what the server needs to be - you think you're helping people, you think you're helping the server, but all you do is whining and annoying other people.

In fact, you guys are perfect example of what I described in my previous post

sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority, you blindly follow them no matter what, you're the kind of people who start being angry after someone writes a single f**king sentence with caps lock pressed on by mistake, just cause it's stated in the rules 'don't overuse the caps lock' ....

If you wish to blame someone, look in the mirror.

[Klaus]

unfortunate result of players not being able to follow simple rules.

It may be a simple rule elsewhere, but with VCMP it becomes a bigger deal.

[SugarD]

It may be a simple rule elsewhere, but with VCMP it becomes a bigger deal.

VC:MP rules do not override the community rules. It's the other way around. If it's such a big deal to the server, then something has been wrong since the start.

[Huntsman]

Gandalf, that is not the point. The point is that fast switching is NOT A GLITCH!. There is a reason why developers allow it, it's because it makes combat require skills. Fast switch is intended to be part of the client inself, if you check ANY server in VCMP, it has the fast switching. Without fast switching, combat in VCMP would be just jumping around like in LU and trying your luck - it couldnt be easier..

[SugarD]

Gandalf, that is not the point. The point is that fast switching is NOT A GLITCH!. There is a reason why developers allow it, it's because it makes combat require skills. Fast switch is intended to be part of the client inself, if you check ANY server in VCMP, it has the fast switching. Without fast switching, combat in VCMP would be just jumping around like in LU and trying your luck - it couldnt be easier..

So now you're going to tell the Server Owners that they don't know what they are talking about in their own community, AND insult another Argonath server? I would highly suggest you think before you respond next.