We want some attention over here.

[Rapture]

Guess combat just got harder in roleplays then.

Thinking about it, this should lead to less deathmatching from new users. You guys should be happy...

Well, if they're new, they won't even realize what fast switch is. As far as I know, we can still fire a weapon, so death matching won't drop from new users' side.

[SugarD]

Well, if they're new, they won't even realize what fast switch is. As far as I know, we can still fire a weapon, so death matching won't drop from new users' side.

Well the others seem to think that combat is going from skill to luck without fast-switching being implemented

[Klaus]

Yes, without such techniques the skill-level will drop.

[Call_me_Dad]

So far I see only whining, and nobody seems to want to address my initial post on the subject.
Perhaps nobody reads, everyone just piles on their crap ?

You reminded us that any form of glitch is not allowed on the server.
Okay, agreed. Rules are Rules....you decide them, we enforce them, players follow them.

You disabled some combat features to prevent glitches.
The problem is here!
Those features are not glitches. But have a huge impact on the server. Majority players dont want that change.
If those features do not conflict with the rules/vision why have they been changed?

Fast switch is not used in MTA:VC. If people use it there to gain an advantage, they shall be banned too. There is no option to disable it because no one knew it existed when the client was made, thus comparing the two makes no sense at all.

RON taught me how to fast switch. 
Are you saying that you stand still for 1 second after each shot?

MTAVC is the only multi player client for Vice City (apart from VCMP) where Argonath has a server, so it is the only comparison I have.

nor are good fighters needed in a RP community.

SWAT tactical entry. You can hear gunshots, you look up to your comrade....your brother in arms.
You wished he was a better fighter 

[SugarD]

Those features are not glitches. But have a huge impact on the server. Majority players dont want that change.
If those features do not conflict with the rules/vision why have they been changed?

Well, if they're new, they won't even realize what fast switch is.

Argonath leaders will accept new rules and scripts only if they fit the vision. If any suggestion is limiting the possibility to play for new players, strives to give advantage to more experienced players, or creates a more complex rule that would make it hard to understand or follow, it will be rejected, regardless of how much support there is from the community

Using glitches that give you an advantage over other players is strictly forbidden.

A glitch is a non-documented feature that allows behaviour which is not intended by the creators* and is not caused by the script.

Refers to the game creators. Multiplayer modifications are third party, and whether intended or not, features that allow behavior not intended by the game creators still count as glitches. If the multiplayer modification were created by the same people who created the game, that definition would not apply to this situation.

Are you saying that you stand still for 1 second after each shot?

Why wouldn't I? You need time to aim so you don't hit innocent bystanders in a police shootout!

[Huntsman]

Once again a ridicullously stupid statement.

So you're saying that entering as a passanger to a car in SAMP is glitching, because original game developers did not intend it?
Are you trying to say that drive-by'eing is glitching because you couldnt do it in singleplayer?
Are you trying to say that scripted interriors are glitches because they were not made by the game developers?

THINK WHAT YOU SAY!

[SugarD]

Once again a ridicullously stupid statement.

So you're saying that entering as a passanger to a car in SAMP is glitching, because original game developers did not intend it?
Are you trying to say that drive-by'eing is glitching because you couldnt do it in singleplayer?
Are you trying to say that scripted interriors are glitches because they were not made by the game developers?

THINK WHAT YOU SAY!

Umm...actually...you can do all of those in single-player...

[Kessu]

limiting the possibility to play for new players, strives to give advantage to more experienced players, or creates a more complex rule that would make it hard to understand or follow, it will be rejected, regardless of how much support there is from the community

Fast/jump switch does not limit the possibilities for new players, nor does it give advantage to experienced ones. I've played for 4 and half years now in Argonath and still get owned by bunnyhoppers.

Of the last part; it does not make new complex rules, it all falls under one that are on the server now too.

On the part where you talked of skill, it does drop with no fast/jump switch.... in most of the cases, not all tho'.

[JDC]

Argonath rules and administration policy must be followed. Glitching and all other unfair advantages are prohibited.

If you cannot handle that, leave the server.
If you are an admin who cannot follow the Owners' policies, resign your post and leave as a traitor, or start doing your job properly.

So what if I am just a Moderator? I am part of the administration team, whose goal is to implement the policies set by the Owners, and no amount of justifying wrongdoings can change that.

[Gandalf]

You reminded us that any form of glitch is not allowed on the server.
Okay, agreed. Rules are Rules....you decide them, we enforce them, players follow them.

You disabled some combat features to prevent glitches.
The problem is here!
Those features are not glitches. But have a huge impact on the server. Majority players dont want that change.
If those features do not conflict with the rules/vision why have they been changed?

The problem is not in these. As you may know in the discussion last year they were allowed to continue.
Interesting that nobody mentions c-bugging by the way, which is also a usual technique.

The problem is that as soon as I adressed glitching being disallowed, the response of the admin team was to ask for a list of which glitches were allowed and which were not. What is now said to be ' combat techniques' were included in this list.
The rule is simple and easy to understand. No glitching in any form is allowed, and the whole team should be enforcing that instead of using glitches themselves and finding excuses. If they can agree with that, I have no problem in removing the restrictions, with the note that if the team and management resume their own usage of glitching, they will be removed again.

[Call_me_Dad]

The problem is not in these. As you may know in the discussion last year they were allowed to continue.
Interesting that nobody mentions c-bugging by the way, which is also a usual technique.

fast switching and c-bugging achieves the same results through two different methods.
So it would just lead to a longer post 
If you need some consent that these techniques are not glitches, we can try and provide it.


So, the problem is...you dont want the rule-book to be very complicated.
You are trying to replace the long glitch list with a single line - "All glitches are not allowed."
As it is easier for new players to understand and comprehend.
Rather than going through a huge checklist and trying to find loopholes to gain an advantage.

Sounds fair from your point of view.

If that is the problem, please reply. So we can come to a mutual solution for this.

PS: There used to be an ignore user button on the forum, was it removed?

[Gandalf]

fast switching and c-bugging achieves the same results through two different methods.
So it would just lead to a longer post 
If you need some consent that these techniques are not glitches, we can try and provide it.


So, the problem is...you dont want the rule-book to be very complicated.
You are trying to replace the long glitch list with a single line - "All glitches are not allowed."
As it is easier for new players to understand and comprehend.
Rather than going through a huge checklist and trying to find loopholes to gain an advantage.

Sounds fair from your point of view.

If that is the problem, please reply. So we can come to a mutual solution for this.

PS: There used to be an ignore user button on the forum, was it removed?

My main issue is the server to be a friendly place for new and regular players alike. Regardles if they know Argonath or walk in for the first time.
The first thing I need is a clear line that the administration and management do not feel themselves exempt from any rule, and will not try to bend things in their advantage.
The next is that rules, including how to behave in combat, are clear for everyone and easy to understand for new players. If a new player can not understand the difference between a skilled fighter and a rulebreaker, there is a problem.

[JDC]

fast switching and c-bugging achieves the same results through two different methods.
So it would just lead to a longer post 
If you need some consent that these techniques are not glitches, we can try and provide it.


So, the problem is...you dont want the rule-book to be very complicated.
You are trying to replace the long glitch list with a single line - "All glitches are not allowed."
As it is easier for new players to understand and comprehend.
Rather than going through a huge checklist and trying to find loopholes to gain an advantage.

Sounds fair from your point of view.

If that is the problem, please reply. So we can come to a mutual solution for this.

It still qualifies in the same category as glitches, as it causes unfair advantage, glitch or not. Anything that can get you banned on MTA:VC is automatically bannable on VC:MP as well, since Argonath's servers exercise a uniform set of rules.

Instead of wasting long hours on explanation and elaboration, we must settle for the only acceptable solution; all glitches are prohibited, by virtue of the Argonath rules.

[Huntsman]

Umm...actually...you can do all of those in single-player...

I would love to see you get in the car as a passanger and start drive-bying without any cheats or mods.

[Ave]

Even if fast switch is a feature and not a glitch, for now it is disabled by owners' call.
Drop your arguments and repetitive statements or else we'd have nothing to look here for...