North Korea seeks immediate food aid after floods

[Pandalink]

People who misuse the benefits of being a part of a communistic society will receive punishment, which is one of the reasons why we have a functional prison-system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia


Personally I think it's a bit rich to ask for help when you're North Korea. Just saying.

[saberman]

I'm worried about the people there.. We cannot let them to rot even if they are the people of NK. Unless I'm misinformed about the people's status.

[Dolfagr]

I'm worried about the people there.. We cannot let them to rot even if they are the people of NK. Unless I'm misinformed about the people's status.

Every North Korean is forced to have a portrait of the current leader and his fathers at his home / business. They're not allowed to express any political ideologies or they will be executed, without a trial most of the times. They're not allowed to visit South Korea and their families as the Pyongyang forbids it.

Males and sometimes females are fit for service in the NKorean Army are 17+ (not 18 as other countries), and almost all males are in the army, or reserves (Age 17-49) which makes it the Second biggest army in reserves ( 8 million reserves plus 1 million active personnel, which are about 25 percent of the whole population.

Allies? They used to have close ties with China, Soviet Union, Cuba, Belarus, Syria, Iran and former Soviet block countries.

[JDC]

You should go make a romantic painting of North Korea, seeing as how you love idealised descriptions. And lol, taking money of his people. How can he have hobby of taking money from his people if they are all poor starving peasants as it is being put here in this topic?

@JDC:

well done comparing argonath and north korea, makes your post extremely legitimate
and you do not need to write a huge wall of text to make your wish that NK suffers an attack and its order completely disrupted look beautiful

@JayL:

This is where your entire argument falls apart, by arguing on the premise that there is an "order" in North Korea that is not to be disrupted if the country is to continue in a state of "prosperity". That premise is in itself flawed.

The only order that is present in North Korea is disorder. A country where you are forced to virtually worship a dictator, to stay locked inside the borders, to be separated from any friends or family you might have in the South, to conform to only a single political ideology, to die for simply having an opinion, to starve while watching fat dictators and fat generals eating first-class food, to dress exactly how the government tells you to dress, is definitely not a country with an order that deserves not to be disrupted.

Yes, the citizens of the North are also humans like you and I, and they still deserve our help regardless of how retarded their government may get. I am not here to attack political ideologies nor to wish war (or death) on North Korea or some other country. However, what you are supporting is completely and fundamentally wrong.

As pointed out by Wolfe (with the example of Norway and other northern european countries), you do not need a dictator of questionable mental state for a country to have good food, health care, et cetera.


Here's more.

Healthcare in North Korea:

North Korea's healthcare system has been in a steep decline since the 1990s due to natural disasters, economic problems, and food and energy shortages. Many hospitals and clinics in North Korea now lack essential medicines, equipment, running water and electricity.^[246]

Almost 100% of the population has access to water and sanitation, but it is not completely potable. Infectious diseases, such as tuberculosis, malaria, and hepatitis B, are considered to be endemic to the country. Life expectancy in North Korea is 63.8 years, occupying the 170th place in the world, according to 2009 estimates.

Among other health problems, many North Korean citizens suffer from the after effects of malnutrition, caused by famines related to the failure of its food distribution program and "military first" policy. A 1998 United Nations (UN) World Food Program report revealed that 60% of children suffered from malnutrition, and 16% were acutely malnourished. As a result, those who suffered during the disaster have ongoing health problems.

Freedom of Religion in North Korea:

According to Human Rights Watch, free religious activities no longer exist in North Korea, as the government sponsors religious groups only to create an illusion of religious freedom.^[228]

...

Pyongyang was the center of Christian activity in Korea until 1945. From the late forties 166 priests and other religious figures were killed or disappeared in concentration camps, including Francis Hong Yong-ho, bishop of Pyongyang^[230] and all monks of Tokwon abbey.^[231] No Catholic priest survived the persecution, all churches were destroyed and the government never allowed any foreign priest to set up in North Korea.^[232]

You are forbidden from choosing your own religious beliefs.

Freedom of Movement in North Korea:

North Korean citizens usually cannot freely travel around the country,^[2] much less travel abroad.^[5][6] Emigration is forbidden. Only the political elite may own or lease vehicles, and the government limits access to fuel and other forms of transportation due to frequent shortages of gasoline, diesel fuel, crude oil, coal and other fossil fuels (satellite photos of North Korea show an almost complete absence of vehicles on all of its roads throughout the country, even in its cities). Forced resettlement of citizens and whole families, especially as punishment for political reasons, is said to be routine.^[41]

You are forbidden from exploring your own country freely.

Freedom of the Media in North Korea:

North Korean media are under some of the strictest government control in the world. The North Korean constitution provides for freedom of speech and the press; but the government prohibits the exercise of these rights in practice. In its 2010 report, Reporters without Borders ranked freedom of the press in North Korea as 177th out of 178, above only that of Eritrea.^[193] Only news that favors the regime is permitted, while news that covers the economic and political problems in the country, and foreign criticism of the government, are not allowed.^[194] The media upheld the personality cult of Kim Jong-un, regularly reporting on his daily activities. The main news provider to media in the DPRK is the Korean Central News Agency.

You are forbidden from hearing anything the state does not want you to hear.

Economic Development in North Korea:

Not very much explanation is needed here.

Sounds like a very good place to live in, does it not? Now, tell me more about how this order is one that deserves to not be disrupted by virtue of its maximizing the public good of its citizens.

[saberman]

Every North Korean is forced to have a portrait of the current leader and his fathers at his home / business. They're not allowed to express any political ideologies or they will be executed, without a trial most of the times. They're not allowed to visit South Korea and their families as the Pyongyang forbids it.

Males and sometimes females are fit for service in the NKorean Army are 17+ (not 18 as other countries), and almost all males are in the army, or reserves (Age 17-49) which makes it the Second biggest army in reserves ( 8 million reserves plus 1 million active personnel, which are about 25 percent of the whole population.

Allies? They used to have close ties with China, Soviet Union, Cuba, Belarus, Syria, Iran and former Soviet block countries.

Yes, and that's why I think we must intervene.

[Gandalf]

Information on Wikipedia is as trustable as the leaders of North Korea telling all people worship their leader.

We do not have the right to intevene in another country. If the people in North Korea wish to change their system, they are very capable of doing so. If they do not, we should not force them.
We may not agree with the system, but that does not give us the right to shut a country out of trading resources under the name of 'sanctions' and then denying help if they starve.
Most of the shortages and problems are because international trade in many items is blocked as "we" feel the government there should be changed. So "we" cause problems, then deny help.

I am by no means a fan of the regime in North Korea, but I am against denial of help for those we are responsible for starving.

[Dolfagr]

Information on Wikipedia is as trustable as the leaders of North Korea telling all people worship their leader.

Yet it's one of the only sources, as there is barely any valid reports coming out of N. Korea.

We do not have the right to intevene in another country. If the people in North Korea wish to change their system, they are very capable of doing so. If they do not, we should not force them.
We may not agree with the system, but that does not give us the right to shut a country out of trading resources under the name of 'sanctions' and then denying help if they starve.
Most of the shortages and problems are because international trade in many items is blocked as "we" feel the government there should be changed. So "we" cause problems, then deny help.

I am by no means a fan of the regime in North Korea, but I am against denial of help for those we are responsible for starving.

There are no means of elections in N. Korea, the regime is a property of one family like in Syria. The only way to overthrow the regime would be via a military conflict as a transition never works out. A civil war such as Syria or Libya (Ofcourse Libya intervention was clear profit) would only make things worse for the civilians, plus the weapon stockpiles that N.Korea has and their unstable past.. a civil war would automatically begin an intervention in N.Korea, used as "Excuse" by Western powers to avoid a risk of them being used, just like Iraq with Sarin gas used on Kurds and Kuwait so the Americans intervened..

[JDC]

f the people in North Korea wish to change their system, they are very capable of doing so. If they do not, we should not force them.

What if the dictator is powerful enough to supress and prevent any uprisings on the part of the people?

[Gandalf]

Yet it's one of the only sources, as there is barely any valid reports coming out of N. Korea.

Whis is exactly why it should be taken as propaganda and not actual situation.
Those who provide information do that based on their experience after fleeing, just as in West heard many terror stories about the USSR while most citizens could live a normal life.

There are no means of elections in N. Korea, the regime is a property of one family like in Syria. The only way to overthrow the regime would be via a military conflict as a transition never works out. A civil war such as Syria or Libya (Ofcourse Libya intervention was clear profit) would only make things worse for the civilians, plus the weapon stockpiles that N.Korea has and their unstable past.. a civil war would automatically begin an intervention in N.Korea, used as "Excuse" by Western powers to avoid a risk of them being used, just like Iraq with Sarin gas used on Kurds and Kuwait so the Americans intervened..

The military itself could choose to overthrow the regime, and if enough people with power would be convinced it is time to change it could be peaceful. Reforms in China were done mostly in peace, the USSR collapsed without civil war, so your presumptions it can change only by civil war are completely false.

[Gandalf]

What if the dictator is powerful enough to supress and prevent any uprisings on the part of the people?

No dictator is powerful enough if a majority of the people support the uprising.

[saberman]

We do not have the right to intevene in another country. If the people in North Korea wish to change their system, they are very capable of doing so. If they do not, we should not force them.

The suffering is not recent, according to the video Reece posted.
Based on the information I have received on this topic, people cannot gather up together and make a rebellion.

[Wolfe]

The thing is, you'd need to have the entire north korean army thinking at the same time "Hey, let's shoot that dictator", you'd need an actuall command of such rebellion, and for that you need more than 1 person meetings, with the ammount of supression there's no chance to form such thing.


I do agree help must be given, but i do not agree with Jay's view on it's political system, but that's unrelated to helping them or not.

[Aksel]

Communism is the true way its goal is to abolish state and money not create a police state like the USA says. North Korea deserves help.

North Korea is not communistic lol

[Gandalf]

The thing is, you'd need to have the entire north korean army thinking at the same time "Hey, let's shoot that dictator", you'd need an actuall command of such rebellion, and for that you need more than 1 person meetings, with the ammount of supression there's no chance to form such thing.

If the citizens of a country wish to overthrow the government, that should not be a small elite group who will then repeat the former government under a different flag.
Changing a dictatorship that the world hates for one the world likes does not help the people of the country.
Just look at Egypt and Lybia and notice that for many citizens things got worse in their life.

[Wolfe]

If the citizens of a country wish to overthrow the government, that should not be a small elite group who will then repeat the former government under a different flag.
Changing a dictatorship that the world hates for one the world likes does not help the people of the country.
Just look at Egypt and Lybia and notice that for many citizens things got worse in their life.

yes, and do you think such ammount of organization can be done with the control NK government has over it's people.