Should all American Citizens be allowed to carry guns? (US Elections)

[NitrOx]

Hi everybody,

I am doing research on the U.S. second amendement right and would like to hear your opinion on the following motion:

Should all American Citizens be allowed to carry guns?

I personally think that U.S. Citizens should be allowed to carry firearms because it only takes a moment for a murderer to shoot an individual, and it takes an average of 11 minutes in the U.S. for a 911 call to be responded to. Yet, the use of firearms could be lifesaving.

This subject has come into discussion even more after the Batman killings.

What do you think?

-NitrOx

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

You shouldn't have made this topic.
Obviously some individuals here don't use their brains before posting.

If you want my say on it;
Hell no.
America has a shitload of citizens, and if everyone would have a gun it would be an uncontrollable chaos.
Don't give me that self protection bs either. Guns are only used for crime by civilians over there.

[NitrOx]

There are strict gun-controls on weapons in the U.S. With citizens I mean the people who do not have a criminal record or are mentally ill.

Also, I would like to ask you, do you not think that if the right to own a gun (2nd amendement) would be banned, this would only lead to a big rise in weapons import and a criminal monopoly on guns and a rise in violence?

For example,

Criminal wants to kill someone. It is banned to use/carry guns. Criminal knows this and knows that his victim is probably unarmed - he would be more intrigued to shoot and kill his victim then if there is a 2nd amendement right which would make it more likely that his victim is armed and prepared to defend himself.

Also, if it were banned, people would be able to get their hands on guns illegally anyways.

Do you know what happened for example in the United Kingdom?

In 1997, a new gun act was applied in the U.K. forbidding the carrying on handguns etc. About 2,400 violent fire-arm edit: offences were noticed in that year. However, in fourteen years time, this number has increased to around -+ 11,000 offences* in the U.K.

This number has not had such a rise in the U.S. where the carrying of arms are allowed.

[Reece]

In 1997, a new gun act was applied in the U.K. forbidding the carrying on handguns etc. About 2,400 violent fire-arm homicides were noticed in that year. However, in fourteen years time, this number has increased to around -+ 11,000 killings in the U.K.

First of all, provide a source for your numbers.

Second of all, providing you with a source I can tell you there was only 41 people murdered by a firearm in 2009, here in England and Wales, and 5 in Northern Ireland, this is compared with 10300 in the United States in the same year.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Homicides_by_firearms.xls

And to your question, no, I do not believe citizens should be allowed to carry weapons for the numbers provided above. It is extremely difficult to get hold of a gun both legally and illegal here, and I am glad it is that way.

[NitrOx]

First of all, provide a source for your numbers.

Second of all, providing you with a source I can tell you there was only 41 people murdered by a firearm in 2009, here in England and Wales, and 5 in Northern Ireland, this is compared with 10300 in the United States in the same year.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Homicides_by_firearms.xls

And to your question, no, I do not believe citizens should be allowed to carry weapons for the numbers provided above. It is extremely difficult to get hold of a gun both legally and illegal here, and I am glad it is that way.

I made a mistake - instead of killings - Firearms offences.

In the year Apr 2010 to Mar 2011 there were 11,227 recorded offences involving firearms, broken down as follows.
By weapon type:
Long-barrelled shotgun = 406
Sawn-off shotgun = 202
Handgun = 3,105
Rifle = 74
Imitation firearm = 1,610
Unidentified firearm = 957
Other firearm = 670
Air weapons = 4,203

[Gandalf]

If you would have followed the discussion on firearms in earlier topics, you would notice that there is a factor 10 difference in firearm deaths after correction for population.
This means a country where people are allowed to cary firearms freely causes 10 times more people to die as a country where this is not allowed.

A small price to pay for  false feeling of personal safety ?

[Reece]

I made a mistake - instead of killings - Firearms offences.

In the year Apr 2010 to Mar 2011 there were 11,227 recorded offences involving firearms, broken down as follows.
By weapon type:
Long-barrelled shotgun = 406
Sawn-off shotgun = 202
Handgun = 3,105
Rifle = 74
Imitation firearm = 1,610
Unidentified firearm = 957
Other firearm = 670
Air weapons = 4,203

You still haven't provided a source.

Here is some more information for you:

In the US – population 311.5 million (1) – there were an estimated 13,756 murders in 2009 (2), a rate of about 5.0 per 100,000 (3). Of these 9,203 were carried out with a firearm.

In the UK – population 56.1 million (4) – there were an estimated 550 murders in 2011-12 (5), a rate of about 1.4 per 100,000. Of these 39 were carried out with a firearm (6).

Spoiler for Hiden:

References

(1) United States Census Bureau (undated). State and Country Quick Facts. Available from: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

(2) United States Census Bureau (2012) 2012 Statistical Abstract – Table 310. Murder Victims – Circumstances and Weapons Used or Cause of Death: 2000-2009. Available from http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0310.pdf

(3) United States Census Bureau (2012) 2012 Statistical Abstract – Table 306. Crimes and Crime Rates by Type of Offence: 1980-2009. Available from:  http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

(4) Office for National Statistics (2011). 2011 Census Home. Available from: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/census/2011/index.html

(5) Home Office (2012). Historical Crime Data. Available from: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/historical-crime-data/

(6) Home Office (2010). Home Office Statistical Bulletin. Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2008/09. Available from: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218135832/http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf

EDIT: I found your source, wikipedia... information used incorrectly once more:



Information on crime in the US, you do the math

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

[Megamidget]

It is the one thing i do feel strongly about, i dont think people should carry firearms, they are not needed. I would find it very disturbing knowing every single person around me is armed, what if that person is having a really bad day, their not seeing straight when they bump into the person that is the source of their problem, having a gun on them would probably be very tempting and there you have it yet another killing. I know that a situation like that is a long shot but i am sure it has happened before.

Guns cause more problems than they solve, here in the UK where weapons are very rare and difficult to obtain there are as reece pointed out very few gun crimes, this coupled with a unarmed police force means criminals do not feel the need to carry weapons further reducing firearm incidents

[NitrOx]

If you would have followed the discussion on firearms in earlier topics, you would notice that there is a factor 10 difference in firearm deaths after correction for population.
This means a country where people are allowed to cary firearms freely causes 10 times more people to die as a country where this is not allowed.

A small price to pay for  false feeling of personal safety ?

No, I have not read these topics.

Do you think the 2nd amendement right should be banned? - will you not think that this might create a criminal monopoly on weaponary and an increase of violent crime rates and an much higher import of guns/criminal trade?


Post Merge: September 24, 2012, 04:57:13 pmAnd yeah, Reece, I used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom for the above figures regarding the U.K.

A source which I trust but which, you are right, is unreliable.

[Reece]

And yeah, Reece, I used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom for the above figures regarding the U.K.

A source which I trust but which, you are right, is unreliable.

The information comes from here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary

Use this for information from 2000 regarding the US: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2000.html

[NitrOx]

@Reece:

What I am trying to state above is that after the use of guns was banned in 1997, the use of guns in crime rose in the United Kingdom.

SOURCE:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

So - would it be wise to ban guns in the U.S. aswell?

[Reece]

@Reece:

What I am trying to state above is that after the use of guns was banned in 1997, the use of guns in crime rose in the United Kingdom.

SOURCE:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

So - would it be wise to ban guns in the U.S. aswell?

While use of guns in crime may have risen here, this is due to gang culture which is a major problem here - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html the actual number of murders using a firearm has barely changed

95 - 2009


95-2010

[Gandalf]

I am pretty sure the data is unreliable, as in 1999 there were 16946 offences, which would be 8x more in 2 years. That would most certainly have been reported.
Most likely someone reduced the offences by a factor 10 to make it look better.

As for the Second Amendment, its up to the USA to judge over it. I am sure a very large number of States would heavily oppose it, even to the level of threatening to leave the Union.

There is a cultural difference between the USA and Europe, which stems from the wild and violent background of how the USA was formed. People migrating there in early days literally could not survive without a gun, and also frequently had to defend themselves against groups of bandits as well as fights between States. This is the origin of the Second Amendment, and it is going to be hard to convince people that after 300 years it should be changed.

[Gandalf]

If you want clear data, use this link:http://www.gun-control-network.org/A018.htm

[clancker]

Here is my option they should have rights to carry firearms but 1st they have to pass a lesson how to use the pistol and the only pistol that  can be allowed with out license to be Glock