Argonath Democracy Movement - Message for all the Argonathians.

[Radagast]

At this stage, the brainstorming meetings haven't got to what you're both talking about.

[stormeus]

What we were discussing was nothing federal, it was about a city council-based style of involving the citizens with RP complaints more than /report for someone parking his car on another guy's property, for example. It hasn't even started to be discussed other than in the context of "what if" or brainstorming sessions.

I'm sorry, but what? Max's outline shows plans for a basic parliamentary structure. I absolutely remember discussions regarding a three-party parliament and discussions about election procedures.

[Marcel]

I'm sorry, but what? Max's outline shows plans for a basic parliamentary structure. I absolutely remember discussions regarding a three-party parliament and discussions about election procedures.

True, however there has been only one real meeting so far, and the entire idea is still nothing more than brainstorming. Democracy cannot be done in one week or month.

[Vector]

oh

[Huntsman]

Guys, keep it calm. Please read the system i have posted, if its readable ofc .

In any case, i meant that the MAIN GOVERNMENT would be in SAMP, due to its possibilities and population. Yes, the parlament would in fact have effect for VC and LC as well, but people from LC and VC, which would like to be in a parlament, would have to have access to SA:MP

[Jcstodds]

  I support only ingame things really that generate roleplay. You can spend an amazing amount of time drawing up plans, having meetings etc on forums... but easier and more fun to do this ingame - and will have more impact on the server.

Besides, if you did go through all the effort of making such a system, I would run a political party, win, and revert the system back to a dictatorship with majority of followers  :evil:

P.s. On a serious note: The democracy ideals of government representing the poeple is nonsense. There is always some own agenda... and I already see this not working in places like ARUN: who do not bother to speak for their groups. So what chance do you have of representing a population? If someones voice needs to be heard... we already have a forum system... where it can be seen by all - including those in power.

We have already got a good system where any one player can talk directly to the president... any democracy and paperwork is not going to be as efficient. Ofc I will support the ingame RP part but the rest is just a fad which will die, because people do not join Argonath to play on the forums writing policies.

[Huntsman]

  I support only ingame things really that generate roleplay. You can spend an amazing amount of time drawing up plans, having meetings etc on forums... but easier and more fun to do this ingame - and will have more impact on the server.

Besides, if you did go through all the effort of making such a system, I would run a political party, win, and revert the system back to a dictatorship with majority of followers :evil:

Remind me to blacklist you from the party

[Jcstodds]

Remind me to blacklist you from the party

  It is a democracy, I would ofc make my own party. The dictator party. And win the democracy.

Also I edited the last

[Huntsman]

  It is a democracy, I would ofc make my own party. The dictator party. And win the democracy.

Also I edited the last

I'll secretly form an armed rebellion and kill of your party :P

[Gandalf]

When looking at a democratic system you might wish to look further as the US or English system, and go for a system as the Dutch have where the parliament can hold up to 10 parties, with the government almost always having to be a coalition of the largest ones.
This gives more people a chance at election time.

[Huskar]

Count me in, and check your PM.

[Marcel]

When looking at a democratic system you might wish to look further as the US or English system, and go for a system as the Dutch have where the parliament can hold up to 10 parties, with the government almost always having to be a coalition of the largest ones.
This gives more people a chance at election time.

What are your views on the position of the president and prime minister if Argonath were to implement a interpretation of the Dutch system? Since i live in the Netherlands, i believe it is a good idea since in practice it gives fair election results, eg. the parliament represents the voters.

[SugarD]

When looking at a democratic system you might wish to look further as the US or English system, and go for a system as the Dutch have where the parliament can hold up to 10 parties, with the government almost always having to be a coalition of the largest ones.
This gives more people a chance at election time.

For Argo's sake though, I wouldn't recommend we base any democratic systems based on parties only because of the issues that would arise. Aside from that, we could probably get away with using any one of the systems you mentioned and still have things work out fine as a result. The political parties just complicate things and create more opinion-based bias on specific subjects, which doesn't represent worldwide players very well.

Guys, keep it calm. Please read the system i have posted, if its readable ofc .

In any case, i meant that the MAIN GOVERNMENT would be in SAMP, due to its possibilities and population. Yes, the parlament would in fact have effect for VC and LC as well, but people from LC and VC, which would like to be in a parlament, would have to have access to SA:MP

I wouldn't be able to support that idea then. Although I understand that SA:MP is one of the most popular servers in Argo, it just doesn't make sense in my opinion to have them control everyone else, and force others to have SA:MP access to do it. Now if you meant something along the lines of having the national capital in SA:MP somewhere, that'd be a different story. The reason why I say this is because we already have the possibility of having these systems in each city/state in every Argo server, and some have even done such already. It wouldn't be all that great, or would it make much sense, to have a single city/state controlling an entire country, or from a community perspective, one server, or a portion thereof, controlling the entire community. In my eyes, it would be better to have one national government, such as what we somewhat already have with the Server Owners being President and Vice President/Prime Minister, and then allow servers to have their respective state and city governments, similar to what we have IRL.

[Huntsman]

For Argo's sake though, I wouldn't recommend we base any democratic systems based on parties only because of the issues that would arise. Aside from that, we could probably get away with using any one of the systems you mentioned and still have things work out fine as a result. The political parties just complicate things and create more opinion-based bias on specific subjects, which doesn't represent worldwide players very well.
I wouldn't be able to support that idea then. Although I understand that SA:MP is one of the most popular servers in Argo, it just doesn't make sense in my opinion to have them control everyone else, and force others to have SA:MP access to do it. Now if you meant something along the lines of having the national capital in SA:MP somewhere, that'd be a different story. The reason why I say this is because we already have the possibility of having these systems in each city/state in every Argo server, and some have even done such already. It wouldn't be all that great, or would it make much sense, to have a single city/state controlling an entire country, or from a community perspective, one server, or a portion thereof, controlling the entire community. In my eyes, it would be better to have one national government, such as what we somewhat already have with the Server Owners being President and Vice President/Prime Minister, and then allow servers to have their respective state and city governments, similar to what we have IRL.

that can be discussed
Post Merge: October 11, 2012, 09:19:51 pm

When looking at a democratic system you might wish to look further as the US or English system, and go for a system as the Dutch have where the parliament can hold up to 10 parties, with the government almost always having to be a coalition of the largest ones.
This gives more people a chance at election time.

We discussed the possibility to have a lot of parties or people inside the parlament, but everyone pretty much decided that having too many people in the parlamet will make things messy.

[stormeus]

The democracy ideals of government representing the poeple is nonsense. There is always some own agenda... and I already see this not working in places like ARUN: who do not bother to speak for their groups. So what chance do you have of representing a population? If someones voice needs to be heard... we already have a forum system... where it can be seen by all - including those in power.

That's the spirit!

On a more serious note, how about a partial direct democracy then? Allow the legislative branch to propose laws or bring forward ideas proposed by ideas, hold an initial vote (checking for constitutionality, competence, and whether it suits the needs of the public), then have the public vote on it.