Calls for UK to allow women in combat

[[WS]Jacob]

The UK should consider following the US and allow women to serve in combat roles, says a woman who became one of the most senior female army officers. Brigadier Nicky Moffat, who retired in December, said it was wrong to dismiss people just on gender.

Major Judith Webb, who became the first woman to command an all-male field squadron disagrees. She said resources would be wasted trying to train women up to a standard they were unlikely to reach.

On Thursday US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta lifted the military's ban on women serving in combat roles, potentially opening frontline positions to women.

Brig Moffat told the BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Ultimately the responsibility for the operational effectiveness of the army and for the lives of the soldiers that are deployed lies with ministers and with the heads of the services and they must make that judgement."

But she said that judgement should be made on the basis of "capability" and she was "deeply uncomfortable" with the idea of excluding a whole group of potentially capable soldiers, just because of gender.

She said "It is not just about physical strength. It's about endurance, it's about ability to operate within a team, it's about a range of skills. But we shouldn't dismiss the point about strength. The infantry combat fitness test is extraordinarily demanding and individuals are required to carry herculean amounts of kit. But if we look at the achievements of our women Olympians I don't think any reasonable person could say that there aren't some women who could meet those standards."

Brig Moffat said the British Army was in a difficult position because it worked closely with the US and the Canadian army, which has already allowed women into combat roles.

Source: BBC News

[Mikal]

Whats the point...? :poke:

[[WS]Jacob]

Whats the point...? :poke:

In my opinion we have enough men to cope with the demand and women aren't as strong as men so whether they would be able to perform the same duties I don't know.

[Mikal]

In my opinion we have enough men to cope with the demand and women aren't as strong as men so whether they would be able to perform the same duties I don't know.

Thats what I thought, it's a fact that men have the stature that is required of a good soldier, don't women already have as equal rights as men? Why do they need to complain about even this little thing..

[[WS]Jacob]

Thats what I thought, it's a fact that men have the stature that is required of a good soldier, don't women already have as equal rights as men? Why do they need to complain about even this little thing..

It's the fact that I think Cameron is feeling pressured by the US into taking steps which may not be right for the long term. Women are already allowed to be dog handlers which go infront of the frontline soldiers sniffing for IEDs etc. So I don't see what the problem is.

[Reece]

Woman already have a lot of roles available to them in the Army, just not infantry, cavalry and a few others. But the can do things like artillery, engineers, air support, logistic support and other services.

[Mikal]

It's the fact that I think Cameron is feeling pressured by the US into taking steps which may not be right for the long term. Women are already allowed to be dog handlers which go infront of the frontline soldiers sniffing for IEDs etc. So I don't see what the problem is.

Well the US needs to butt out and run their own country for a change, not everyone wants to be a political sheep herded by the US government.

Awesome logic from the Welsh guy..

Woman already have a lot of roles available to them in the Army, just not infantry, cavalry and a few others. But the can do things like artillery, engineers, air support, logistic support and other services.

Exactly, and even that high ranking women says no to this, do women really want the dangerous part of this job that badly?

[KhornateMonkey]

[Mikal]

Make me a sandwich

[SugarD]

Exactly, and even that high ranking women says no to this, do women really want the dangerous part of this job that badly?

Some really do. There are women, same as men, who want to actually go into combat and fight for their country...and I don't blame them. They also want to be treated equally. Granted, most people don't like the idea of running straight into gunfire, but there are some who do, and I bet you that there's just as many women as men that feel that way.

Think of it this way: You join the Army. You're all excited and young, ready to run in and fight, guns blazing, the whole deal. Then you find out that because of some biased regulation based on a stereotype, that you are unable to see combat and do anything you wanted to have the chance to do, simply because people believe you can't do it. You know in your heart you can, and you're more than willing to try and prove them wrong, but you're just not allowed to.

You can see why this would be an issue. It's similar to the very early days of war in the United States where non-Caucasian Americans weren't allowed to fight in combat. It was later proved that some of them wanted the chance so badly, that when given the chance, blew other Companies away and were some of the most successful troops in many notable wars.

As said, you can't judge people based on a stereotype, nor should you ever. Everyone is unique, and capable of different things. Even identical twins can sometimes have different preferences, traits, and desires. Everyone should be given a fair chance at everything in this world. That way, it is up to them to succeed...not some rule stopping them from trying.

[Dolfagr]

Seeing a fair amount of British tourists here where I live, I think it would be a good idea!

[Mikal]

Some really do. There are women, same as men, who want to actually go into combat and fight for their country...and I don't blame them. They also want to be treated equally. Granted, most people don't like the idea of running straight into gunfire, but there are some who do, and I bet you that there's just as many women as men that feel that way.

Think of it this way: You join the Army. You're all excited and young, ready to run in and fight, guns blazing, the whole deal. Then you find out that because of some biased regulation based on a stereotype, that you are unable to see combat and do anything you wanted to have the chance to do, simply because people believe you can't do it. You know in your heart you can, and you're more than willing to try and prove them wrong, but you're just not allowed to.

You can see why this would be an issue. It's similar to the very early days of war in the United States where non-Caucasian Americans weren't allowed to fight in combat. It was later proved that some of them wanted the chance so badly, that when given the chance, blew other Companies away and were some of the most successful troops in many notable wars.

As said, you can't judge people based on a stereotype, nor should you ever. Everyone is unique, and capable of different things. Even identical twins can sometimes have different preferences, traits, and desires. Everyone should be given a fair chance at everything in this world. That way, it is up to them to succeed...not some rule stopping them from trying.

It's not based on stereotyping, it's based on gender.. Women are not as strong as men, which is why they are not allowed to do all the combat areas of the military, and they are helping their country if they are doing the area's of the military that they are allowed to.

[[WS]Jacob]

But it's not just about their want to fight, it's also about capability. If they were faced by an "angry man terrorist" who was within arms distance away from them would they be strong enough to take on that challenge and get rid of the threat. What's certain with this is that we will see a lot more women dying in combat if the ban is lifted here.

[SugarD]

It's not based on stereotyping, it's based on gender.. Women are not as strong as men, which is why they are not allowed to do all the combat areas of the military, and they are helping their country if they are doing the area's of the military that they are allowed to.

That is a stereotype. Women are capable of being just as strong as men, both mentally and physically. There are some women out there in the world that could crush us just by throwing us down, they are so strong. There are also women that have seen and done things most men themselves cannot even imagine or handle. Every person is unique. You can't judge everyone as a fact based on an opinion of a few.

Women have always been just as capable as men are. Just because most of the women you see traditionally are "family ladies" who don't work out and can't lift anything heavy doesn't mean they are all like that in this world. Even Law Enforcement and Firefighting shows their abilities compared to men quite well. I believe the U.S. Military even allows women to be Military Police...a job which in itself is very tough, dangerous, and requires a strong body and mind.

[Alan.Wake]

Aye, women can also be more deadlier than men in specific situations in war.