Regarding the "Gandalfs orders"..

[[NP]Monte Montague]

All rules needs to be listed.

I suggest the creation of "unwritten rules thread" where users can submit rules they have been told of, which can be listed as "correct rule" "made up".

Also, I remember one time I was kicked for saying "White players cannot help suspects, they need to be suspected first". Then Jcdstodds kicked me saying I made it up, as I could not find the thread where it was in, I was made to look a fool, but nowadays it is more well known, only took 2 years...

[SugarD]

All rules needs to be listed.

I agree. I got so sick of these "unwritten rules" that I went through and typed all of them out for LU. I highly suggest servers do the same, even if they are rules that need to be explained based upon scenarios. People can't always guess what the rules are on their own. Some of them are common sense, but others are not. As long as we aren't creating rules that are restricting people's roleplay, it's not really a "jungle of rules", since they are already enforced.

As long as people continue to find new ways to break the rules, we'll have to find new ways to stop it. That doesn't necessarily mean creating new rules, however it does mean that we should be giving them decent examples of what is and isn't allowed under a specific action. Take killing another player, for example. It is fine within roleplay, but not outside of it. One could easily update the server rules to reflect this with an example or explanation right below the written rule. It would give people a better understanding of the rule's exact purpose and meaning, rather than a strict "it ain't happening" kind of thing.

[Teddy]

The thing that gets me are the non-existent rules that everything thinks are rules, but really isn't. For example "no commenting on admin punishment", a majority of people think this rule exists when really id doesn't. The only point this is in violation is when it breaches another rule like provoking or flaming either the admin or punished player.

I would agree all rules should be listed, however you must keep in mind at the end of the day you are to follow the directions of the admins. That is a written rule, if they tell you something you should accept it until clarified otherwise by management or leadership.

[Kojak]

A full set of rules will be published shortly by Tom_Evans. He wanted the same thing but instead of asking for it he just did it which is the kind of initiative I appreciate. The set of rules needed some more detail so I have been working with him over the last couple of days, I expect it will be published later today or tomorrow.

There will be a new board created which will exclusively contain rules and guidelines for the server; in that the official rules will be placed plus a full summary of the guidance and desirable behaviour given by developers and owners over the years. Additionally any new information, such as updated clarification or changes to a rule, will be posted in that board.

Also, I remember one time I was kicked for saying "White players cannot help suspects, they need to be suspected first". Then Jcdstodds kicked me saying I made it up, as I could not find the thread where it was in, I was made to look a fool, but nowadays it is more well known, only took 2 years...

This is an excellent example of a rule that has been made up by the community and does not actually exist. There is no rule that says that non-suspects cannot assist suspects under any circumstances; there are in fact circumstances that fully allow it and that will be answered specifically when the full summary of guidance has been posted.

[Stivi]

Glad to hear, Kojak. I hope there will be no more misunderstandings now.

[Def Perry]

Thou shall not argue with a community leader.

[22:20:12] Jenna_Luciano was tempbanned by [Rstar]CBFasi(21) for 60 minutes for arguing with comunity leader.

[Pandalink]

I agree. I got so sick of these "unwritten rules" that I went through and typed all of them out for LU. I highly suggest servers do the same, even if they are rules that need to be explained based upon scenarios. People can't always guess what the rules are on their own. Some of them are common sense, but others are not. As long as we aren't creating rules that are restricting people's roleplay, it's not really a "jungle of rules", since they are already enforced.

Hey look at that, we finally agree on something.

The "you learn the rules when you get punished for breaking them" thing can be really shit for new players.

[Kirgiz]

A full set of rules will be published shortly by Tom_Evans. He wanted the same thing but instead of asking for it he just did it which is the kind of initiative I appreciate.

That is really sad that regular players must take care of such issues.

[SugarD]

That is really sad that regular players must take care of such issues.

Kojak had actually volunteered to do it first. Tom_Evans was the one who took the initiative to do it for him instead. If anything, that shows that a regular player cares a lot about the community, and wishes to help out for nothing in return.

Hey look at that, we finally agree on something.

The "you learn the rules when you get punished for breaking them" thing can be really shit for new players.

Now I'm scared!

But yes, I agree. This can't go on...and this is something we need to address for all servers, as many of these rules are getting enforced community-wide, or have descriptions for them to be enforced as such.

[Thom]

Conclusing this discussion,for unwritten rules and generally rules with the topic me and Kojak made   http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=100219.0

[Lionel Valdes]

You cannot force NOT to roleplay is also a rule.

[SugarD]

You cannot force NOT to roleplay is also a rule.

Correct, as stated by Gandalf.

[[Rstar]Paul]

Information about forcing and not forcing roleplay can be found on this link - http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900.0

[Kojak]

What has been posted today are the server rules; these are the fairly black and white rules that should be easy enough to apply to any situation.

What is still to come is the guidance; the guidance will be a list of example situations and the way Argonath developers expect players to handle them. These include things like civilians entering buildings that have been barricaded by police, escaping after surrendering and so on. It will also include things players are actually allowed to do which some might believe they cannot, growing weed while on police duty, defending yourself when attacked etc. Overall they should be considered rules but with conditions attached, i.e. you can do this action providing these circumstances exist etc.

Please do not start listing all the the things that have not been included in the list of rules published today; there is a great deal more to come in the form of the guidance.

[Leon.]

This is an excellent example of a rule that has been made up by the community and does not actually exist. There is no rule that says that non-suspects cannot assist suspects under any circumstances; there are in fact circumstances that fully allow it and that will be answered specifically when the full summary of guidance has been posted.

I think what he means is the rule that you can't SHOOT at cops when you're white to help a friend or something, since they cannot return fire without suspecting.