Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Frank_Hawk on October 14, 2014, 11:40:39 pm

Title: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 14, 2014, 11:40:39 pm
Hi,

What is the support mechanism for criminal or family groups?

Is there a policy defined?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 14, 2014, 11:47:25 pm
What kind of support?
We already support groups that deserve it by giving them a free HQ and vehicles.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 15, 2014, 01:14:16 am
Hi,

What is the support mechanism for criminal or family groups?

Is there a policy defined?

Your group has to be 'recognized' by managers / 'hq' (whatever that is).
Then from that you can get a free HQ and vehicles.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Eliezer on October 15, 2014, 06:18:04 am
What kind of support?
We already support groups that deserve it by giving them a free HQ and vehicles.

What makes a group more deserving to get a free HQ/vehicles than other groups?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Mikal on October 15, 2014, 12:02:47 pm
What makes a group more deserving to get a free HQ/vehicles than other groups?
Isn't that obvious?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hamza_Khan on October 15, 2014, 02:10:40 pm
What makes a group more deserving to get a free HQ/vehicles than other groups?
Its easy to know that your group has to be good with admins/managers,don't Rule break,Always organize big RPes,Recruit good RPers that's the basic things you need to do for recognized status !
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hector_Alvarez on October 15, 2014, 02:16:07 pm
Its easy to know that your group has to be good with admins/managers.................

You mean asslicking?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Tiny on October 15, 2014, 02:50:52 pm
You mean asslicking?

He means that the group has to act in a mature way and not cause trouble to the servers and the administration.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hamza_Khan on October 15, 2014, 03:06:56 pm
You mean asslicking?
Being good with anyone isn't asslicking as mush as I concerned.
Don't Know about you  :)
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 15, 2014, 07:38:02 pm
Yes there is a "policy" those that behave within the server and create a atmosphere that isn't so negative (i.e deathmatching, not roleplaying at all) then we'll consider bumping groups up to required status.  If you mean injecting money into them which am sure you do mean then no we aren't going to do it.  Providing a place of operations that would cost a hefty penny and vehicles along with it is more than enough for group support. 

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 16, 2014, 12:10:24 am
What current groups have been approved under this policy?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 16, 2014, 12:14:49 am
What current groups have been approved under this policy?

Luciano, Corleone, Gvardia(?) and Grove Street. 

All we ask is that you control your group and keep members in line as they are your responsibility as the group leader.  Not to pick anyone out but if Luciano can acquire it twice the second time after turning their shit around then am sure anyone can achieve it.

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 16, 2014, 12:17:25 am
Always organize big RPes
I want to cry now
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: AK47 on October 16, 2014, 12:18:52 am
My group that I started back in March(?) recived official status, we got some cars and money for houses.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 16, 2014, 01:16:50 am
My group that I started back in March(?) recived official status, we got some cars and money for houses.
Well good on you then.

Luciano, Corleone, Gvardia(?) and Grove Street. 

All we ask is that you control your group and keep members in line as they are your responsibility as the group leader.  Not to pick anyone out but if Luciano can acquire it twice the second time after turning their shit around then am sure anyone can achieve it.


Unfortunately it seems the system is more in favor of / designed for pro criminal groups.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kaze on October 16, 2014, 01:22:09 am
Luciano, Corleone, Gvardia(?) and Grove Street. 

All we ask is that you control your group and keep members in line as they are your responsibility as the group leader.  Not to pick anyone out but if Luciano can acquire it twice the second time after turning their shit around then am sure anyone can achieve it.

Is there a way I can see my members's punishment history via the panel?

I believe Gozlan received their vehicles and HQ.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 16, 2014, 01:35:36 am
Is there a way I can see my members's punishment history via the panel?

I believe Gozlan received their vehicles and HQ.

Gozlan isn't recognized or Official.
Currently no way you can view punishment history only viewable to staff (I think lol)

Monte if I had to be honest it's more swayed to criminal groups than anything.

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Mikal on October 16, 2014, 01:56:34 am
Monte if I had to be honest it's more swayed to criminal groups than anything.
But doesn't the SAPD, FBI, AirDiv, ASID, SWAT and so on also using it despite their 'unique' separate scripts?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Spike. on October 16, 2014, 06:59:01 am
The only punishments you can see are your own.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 16, 2014, 08:13:51 am
Scotto got it as well. Ancelotti too. It's not hard. Try it.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 16, 2014, 08:31:17 am
Apart from a HQ and cars, what else is included in the support package?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 16, 2014, 09:02:42 am
Apart from a HQ and cars, what else is included in the support package?
Ability to use the Drug Market, only given to the group founder/leader, though.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hamza_Khan on October 16, 2014, 01:52:44 pm
I want to cry now
Why  :cry: I feel for you.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 16, 2014, 02:14:51 pm
Ability to use the Drug Market, only given to the group founder/leader, though.

What does this mean?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: jovanca on October 16, 2014, 02:20:16 pm
What does this mean?

Drug market is where you sell drugs these days. Only leaders of recognized/official CRIMINAL groups can sell drugs to the market. Means if you are leader of one, you are one of the few people who can sell drugs to market these days. Prices change every 5 days and the price range is i belive 25-50 or something like that, i was probably wrong, but you get the point.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 16, 2014, 02:42:27 pm
make the group points wars thing happen plz


2boring4rping it
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Spike. on October 16, 2014, 05:26:18 pm
But doesn't the SAPD, FBI, AirDiv, ASID, SWAT and so on also using it despite their 'unique' separate scripts?

Those groups are part of ARPD and that itself was created by Gandalf. If you want to be part of the ARPD you'll have to meet THEIR requirements. Not like any criminal group which can do whatever they want from the moment they stay with in the rules, those groups represent the state, and for that have to meet special requirements and be approved by the ARPD Commissionaire.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 16, 2014, 09:13:34 pm
But doesn't the SAPD, FBI, AirDiv, ASID, SWAT and so on also using it despite their 'unique' separate scripts?

They aren't unique just part of the group system built for law enforcement.  Police groups would have to be considered by SAPD.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 16, 2014, 10:47:49 pm
How do groups apply for funding?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Traser on October 16, 2014, 10:55:55 pm
How do groups apply for funding?

Funding for what?, i only thing legal groups can be funded.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 16, 2014, 10:57:06 pm
How do groups apply for funding?
There's no application. You've to prove yourself. I suggest reading "updates for groups" topic by Devin.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 17, 2014, 03:56:42 pm
Apart from a HQ and cars, what else is included in the support package?
Nothing.
How do groups apply for funding?
There is no founding.

And yes groups needs way more support, not just offical and recognised, yet all, as you can see most groups are down/inactive. Does HQ has any plans for it?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on October 17, 2014, 05:13:11 pm
The question is what's difference between an official and a recognized Criminal Group? apart of that status, there is no any actual difference, and ppl should wait and prove themselves for like 6 months at least to be official, while you need a proper topic and 5 member to be recognized in 1 or 2 weeks...
Drugmarket should work for official criminal groups, such as Corleone and Gvardia or BaLLas, OR, at least we supposed to have more prices (like 1-5$ more than normal groups) at drugmarkets...and with this thing we don't need any additional support from staff members, while the most profitable activity for a criminal groups is narcotics activities.

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: .Matthew. on October 17, 2014, 07:14:05 pm
Nothing.There is no founding.

And yes groups needs way more support, not just offical and recognised, yet all, as you can see most groups are down/inactive. Does HQ has any plans for it?
What kind of support?
If HQ and vehicles are not enough, then I guess next step would be free weaponry of choice and perhaps few scripted bombs..?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 17, 2014, 07:33:47 pm
How is groups being inactive our problem, I quite don't understand that one really since isn't it up to the groups members/leaders to stay active?
We aren't here to babysit or act as group daycare them to make sure they are all active, it's funny how HQ blamed for groups inactivity when we aren't even part of any.  But if your going to come with the "but nothing for groups text" then save it it ain't going to prove whatever point you are trying to make here.


Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Abraham on October 18, 2014, 04:10:56 am
We aren't here to babysit or act as group daycare them to make sure they are all active, it's funny how HQ blamed for groups inactivity when we aren't even part of any.
Maybe that's part of the problem?

I'm not too sure what's being referred to by 'support' but I would personally like to see adjustments to drug market to compensate for the lack of active criminals. (lowering the downtime on price changes drastically)
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 18, 2014, 07:25:58 am
What kind of support?
If HQ and vehicles are not enough, then I guess next step would be free weaponry of choice and perhaps few scripted bombs..?
Script support that encourages gang wars, cargo raids, bank robberies(this is happening, but I got more hope in hl3 than this getting ever released).
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kostas on October 18, 2014, 08:39:47 am
Another interesting question... When/how/why do groups lose theirs rights and what happens to their HQ? Also I believe official groups also recieve 1m am I wrong?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Spike. on October 18, 2014, 09:09:20 am
Another interesting question... When/how/why do groups lose theirs rights and what happens to their HQ? Also I believe official groups also recieve 1m am I wrong?

They lose their rights if they don't meet the requirements, go innactive and such, if so the cars and HQ is removed, I believe.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 18, 2014, 09:10:23 am
Another interesting question... When/how/why do groups lose theirs rights and what happens to their HQ? Also I believe official groups also recieve 1m am I wrong?
When they no longer meet the requirements. Yes, you are wrong.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 18, 2014, 11:28:05 am
How is groups being inactive our problem, I quite don't understand that one really since isn't it up to the groups members/leaders to stay active?
We aren't here to babysit or act as group daycare them to make sure they are all active, it's funny how HQ blamed for groups inactivity when we aren't even part of any.  But if your going to come with the "but nothing for groups text" then save it it ain't going to prove whatever point you are trying to make here.
Its the problem of the entire server, its our mutual problem, and you guys are on the top of the hierarchy. 
No one needs you to babysit, but you gotta provide reasonable enough conditions and demands when it goes to group script and support.
What happen to territory control, the protection script, the development of drug script, the robbery script, etc?
All I did was asked whats the HQ plans for groups script, so we can know what to expect from you guys, and that's all most of us are interesting in hearing.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 18, 2014, 12:43:43 pm
What happen to territory control, the protection script

It's part of RS5 plans. I'm sure it's under development and might come in a future update of the script.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 18, 2014, 12:58:57 pm
Pahaha, we're still updating the scripts ? noice.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 18, 2014, 01:01:14 pm
And when are we gonna be able to actually use our HQ?
Right now we can't lock it, store things, we can't put furniture in it, fix name etc, basically we got no ownership rights, we can't do anything with it .


Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 18, 2014, 01:01:31 pm
Pahaha, we're still updating the scripts ? noice.

It's only RS 5.0
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 18, 2014, 01:04:09 pm
Ohh, so rs5.1 will come
and then rs5.2 will, just like in rs4. But sadly rs4 made it to rs4.1 and never more. And we won't have rs6 so we expect the samp server to end in ~2/3 yrs ? ok ty for telling.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 18, 2014, 01:06:38 pm
I never said that. If you can't read properly it's your own problem.
RS5 was designed to be easier to implement updates. And updates will come in future, it's not the final version that you will play for the next 5 years.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 18, 2014, 02:35:49 pm
Also I believe official groups also recieve 1m am I wrong?

No. No money.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 18, 2014, 07:25:48 pm
Its the problem of the entire server, its our mutual problem, and you guys are on the top of the hierarchy. 
No one needs you to babysit, but you gotta provide reasonable enough conditions and demands when it goes to group script and support.
What happen to territory control, the protection script, the development of drug script, the robbery script, etc?
All I did was asked whats the HQ plans for groups script, so we can know what to expect from you guys, and that's all most of us are interesting in hearing.

I don't deal with scripts, I have no control over developers or what they do or plan to do.  It's up to the developers to inform of what they are doing and what is coming in terms of new features or fixes.  Direct your questions about scripts to them where a actual answer can be given, in-fact we have a topic set-up just for that.

Way you go on you blame SA:MP HQ for group inactivity yet I fail to see how it is our fault?   :uhm:

Again direct script questions to developers they are the one's who can make it so HQ's can be used, in-fact there's a way I could make it useable just set it to the house icon and have someone buy the property for $1. (need a house license though but can easily provide funds to buy one). 
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 19, 2014, 08:10:48 am
I don't deal with scripts, I have no control over developers or what they do or plan to do.  It's up to the developers to inform of what they are doing and what is coming in terms of new features or fixes.  Direct your questions about scripts to them where a actual answer can be given, in-fact we have a topic set-up just for that.

Way you go on you blame SA:MP HQ for group inactivity yet I fail to see how it is our fault?   :uhm:

Again direct script questions to developers they are the one's who can make it so HQ's can be used, in-fact there's a way I could make it useable just set it to the house icon and have someone buy the property for $1. (need a house license though but can easily provide funds to buy one).
I directed to the HQ, cause I thought you guys make decisions and plans together, while the scripters make those decisions/plans happen in reality. My mistake.
About the flaws and counter effects of the decisions made by the HQ scripters that lead to groups inactivity,  I wrote on the previous topic, I don't wanna start that debate all over again, if you want I can show you in pm/skype. Tho again, by HQ I meant few decisions made by few scripters.

Ps-And before those asskissing bots, jumps in attacking the fact I pointed out the scripters, I think the scripters are generally doing a fantastic job so far( most of them know that trough our private talks), tho some features and updated made a series of terrible counter-effects that most of Criminal Leaders were pointing out before implemented, tho we weren't listen as experts in those area, and hence the groups inactivity, on which we pointed out it will happen.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 19, 2014, 04:02:37 pm
Can we consider increasing support to groups, through short term cash?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 04:05:09 pm
There is no way to spawn cash. So this option is impossible.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Bruce. on October 19, 2014, 04:12:02 pm
There is no way to spawn cash. So this option is impossible.

Oh please, just don't say money can't be spawn. Then how is it supposed that players will get refunded if their house bugs out on sale.

And yes, cash support would be great for every group since most of them are really suffering that.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 04:18:44 pm
Don't tell me groups can't make cash. Few individual reach to make thousands and yet a group of 15 members or more doesn't reach to make anything?
Hilarious. And no, there won't be any cash funding.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 04:25:49 pm
Can we consider increasing support to groups, through short term cash?

I'll be bland, once you stop leading deathmatch fests at GS9 with the only goal to antagonize police and other groups, perhaps then you will realise that working for money in-game is not difficult.
You are not immune to punishment nor are you going to be given money to stand around shooting at others.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 04:33:21 pm
Just for your information Frank, the last 6 months you lost 130k just by being killed as suspect and buying deagles.
I'm sure you all could get enough cash if you had priorities on what you are buying.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: AK47 on October 19, 2014, 04:37:24 pm
I'll be bland, once you stop leading deathmatch fests at GS9 with the only goal to antagonize police and other groups

Being a part of some of that situations I can say that it's not Franks nor the NBA's fault, it's the damn freaking groups coming there with the intentions of starting a shootout because they know if they gather a few people from two certain groups and goes to GS9 they know they will get a shootout. So I'd not blame everything on Frank.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kaze on October 19, 2014, 04:44:00 pm
Just for your information Frank, the last 6 months you lost 130k just by being killed as suspect and buying deagles.
I'm sure you all could get enough cash if you had priorities on what you are buying.

That awkward moment when that was you like 3 years ago IN Frank's group.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hamza_Khan on October 19, 2014, 04:48:10 pm
Being a part of some of that situations I can say that it's not Franks nor the NBA's fault, it's the damn freaking groups coming there with the intentions of starting a shootout because they know if they gather a few people from two certain groups and goes to GS9 they know they will get a shootout. So I'd not blame everything on Frank.
And what about that if someone goes to GS9  for re-fueling a car / to go on mechanic duty or even he just want to stand at GS9 for to do his duty then several players come and shouts ''get out of here'' or ''this is Balla's turf'' and then they kill you for no reason
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 04:55:21 pm
That awkward moment when that was you like 3 years ago IN Frank's group.

I never had financial problem. Your comment is completely useless.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 04:56:28 pm
And what about that if someone goes to GS9  for re-fueling a car / to go on mechanic duty or even he just want to stand at GS9 for to do his duty then several players come and shouts ''get out of here'' or ''this is Balla's turf'' and then they kill you for no reason
We ask you to pay "protection tax" or "f**k off". Most of us aren't ever armed.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: AK47 on October 19, 2014, 04:57:25 pm
And what about that if someone goes to GS9  for re-fueling a car / to go on mechanic duty or even he just want to stand at GS9 for to do his duty then several players come and shouts ''get out of here'' or ''this is Balla's turf'' and then they kill you for no reason

Atleast it's roleplayed rather then "/me takes out combat from ass and shoots"
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 19, 2014, 05:14:36 pm
Oh please, just don't say money can't be spawn.

Oh please, would you not post baseless facts that have nothing to back it up.

Topic isn't for complaining about what other groups do if they death-match or whatever, report them in-game.  Information on group support was given, what more do you want to know?

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 19, 2014, 05:54:36 pm
There is no cmd to spawn money, maybe. but there is ways to do so from the database.

Cyril, you've been inactive, so your argument about needing money is invalid. And nothing, nothing, can change my mind on this.

Hire more scripters to fix bugs, or release new features, because we need them, badly.



Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kostas on October 19, 2014, 05:55:47 pm
And what about that if someone goes to GS9  for re-fueling a car / to go on mechanic duty or even he just want to stand at GS9 for to do his duty then several players come and shouts ''get out of here'' or ''this is Balla's turf'' and then they kill you for no reason

Dude ... GS9 is their turf ... so is Grove Street for GSF , The Ten Greens for AoD , Queens for Gvardia , and so on ... it's their HQ, if you are an enemy you simply do not go there... Want to fuel up? Go to temple or something... We're going offtopic here though.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 05:56:37 pm
The answer has been given about financial support. It's no and it won't change.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 19, 2014, 05:58:53 pm
The answers has been given about financial support. It's no and it won't change.
Yes, we' the samp players, are used to being shut doors in their face.

However, HQ/scripters say we need solutions. I gave my two cents on the post above, what about you ? Are you here to posthunt or just be a parrot ?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: AK47 on October 19, 2014, 05:59:34 pm
The answer has been given about financial support. It's no and it won't change.

Then don't expect any difference ingame by the players.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:01:40 pm
There is no cmd to spawn money, maybe. but there is ways to do so from the database.

Cyril, you've been inactive, so your argument about needing money is invalid. And nothing, nothing, can change my mind on this.

Hire more scripters to fix bugs, or release new features, because we need them, badly.

There is no command to spawn money and there is no database access for those that don't need it. Money will not be spawned or created in any way.

Jog on with "You've been inactive", your attitude is starting to tire me. If a group wants money, they can figure out how to work together to get money.
We are not here to babysit and give people money so they can make their groups, instead groups can figure out how to independently survive instead of expecting charity from HQ.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:03:21 pm
You should already be happy that we are giving out HQ and free vehicles. Instead you just want more and more.
That's not the way it works.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 06:04:30 pm
Then don't expect any difference ingame by the players.

This. Without getting what the players want will never help the server to rise once again.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 19, 2014, 06:06:55 pm
criminal groups are the key mechanism of this game, its gta afterall...



Devin, I never said give us this or that, yes, we need them, but instead I proposed a solution. I don't see how that is wrong.



What do you expect Cyril ? Everyone lost it all, no matter how big or small it was. We've to get back. I had motivation, now I don't anymore. And nor do the veterans, so, it's up to the HQ to figure out a way to bring players back.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:08:35 pm
This. Without getting what the players want will never help the server to rise once again.

Are you some kind of special? What players want is never what players get. What players want is never what players need.
So you want money for nothing, there's no way you will get given cash for no reason.
So you want free weapons, good one, there will never be free weapons.

I will rather have a server with a low player-count than a server where players think they are in a position to demand cash from HQ members for no reason at all.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 06:12:10 pm
Are you some kind of special? What players want is never what players get. What players want is never what players need.
So you want money for nothing, there's no way you will get given cash for no reason.
So you want free weapons, good one, there will never be free weapons.

I will rather have a server with a low player-count than a server where players think they are in a position to demand cash from HQ members for no reason at all.

Well, players are not crying for cash and free weapons. If you don't want to give those things what are demanded by the player, then come up with some solution instead of saying a no directly.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:15:02 pm
Well, players are not crying for cash and free weapons. If you don't want to give those things what are demanded by the player, then come up with some solution instead of saying a no directly.

Here is a solution: work!
Some people have thousands of dollars in game, there is no secret.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:16:05 pm
Well, players are not crying for cash and free weapons. If you don't want to give those things what are demanded by the player, then come up with some solution instead of saying a no directly.

So rather say no indirectly? Now that's not how I prefer to do things.
If something is unnecessary I will say no. RS4 worked without HQ having to pay for everyones groups, within RS5 groups shall learn how to be self sufficient or perish.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 19, 2014, 06:18:20 pm
 :war:
Then don't expect any difference ingame by the players.

That's great coming from someone who didn't like two moderators so decided to quit and go all salty.

This. Without getting what the players want will never help the server to rise once again.

Then those that just want and want without doing anything can rightfully piss off, you think we are going to give into pressure to issue money as a way of group support?  Players don't get to decide what support we issue for groups, should consider lucky we even give anything since so many don't deserve it. 

Well, players are not crying for cash and free weapons. If you don't want to give those things what are demanded by the player, then come up with some solution instead of saying a no directly.

See there it is again "demand" just shows that you aren't willing to do anything to rightfully earn anything.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 06:20:49 pm
So rather say no indirectly? Now that's not how I prefer to do things.
If something is unnecessary I will say no. RS4 worked without HQ having to pay for everyones groups, within RS5 groups shall learn how to be self sufficient or perish.

If you say that learn how to be self sufficient, then do/fix the script more quick. Get more ideas, get more scripts to earn money. Hire more scripters, get them on work and work with the server more.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: AK47 on October 19, 2014, 06:21:16 pm
That's great coming from someone who didn't like two moderators so decided to quit and go all salty.

And that I've realized no matter what we do, nothing will change. That's why I and the rest of the 100 players quit.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 06:21:54 pm
or perish.
You talk like you've got a server with a stable 100 players something and that the absense of these 3 or 4 groups wont matter. What you don't know is that these groups are the only active people on the server. If you don't make something that actually satisfies people then we both know what happens next.
And no, I'm not talking about free money, I'm talking about fixing/continuing what you started.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:23:38 pm
And that I've realized no matter what we do, nothing will change. That's why I and the rest of the 100 players quit.

You didn't quit, you are banned.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: AK47 on October 19, 2014, 06:24:17 pm
You didn't quit, you are banned.

Which was what I aimed for. :)
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Luke on October 19, 2014, 06:24:54 pm
Which was what I aimed for. :)

Good, now why are you still here moaning?

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:25:22 pm
You talk like you've got a server with a stable 100 players something and that the absense of these 3 or 4 groups wont matter. What you don't know is that these groups are the only active people on the server. If you don't make something that actually satisfies people then we both know what happens next.

Not really. The active groups are in-game working their way up, not on the forum begging for random things.

Most Active Groups This Month
SAA 6774 minutes
CIA 2945 minutes
Kolta 2772 minutes
Sforza 2346 minutes
RockStar 1338 minutes
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Mr. Goobii on October 19, 2014, 06:26:32 pm
lol @ war
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 06:26:41 pm
:war:
That's great coming from someone who didn't like two moderators so decided to quit and go all salty.

Then those that just want and want without doing anything can rightfully piss off, you think we are going to give into pressure to issue money as a way of group support?  Players don't get to decide what support we issue for groups, should consider lucky we even give anything since so many don't deserve it. 

See there it is again "demand" just shows that you aren't willing to do anything to rightfully earn anything.

I'll never agree to issue money to the groups for no reason when they're been given vehicle after they get recognized. Every problem has a solution. Do something regarding the criminal script. Criminals are still waiting for the bank robbery script. I don't see any reason behind posting a topic regarding a script which  doesn't even have a base? Work on the script, release it, get ideas, implement them. This is the way we should work out.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:26:52 pm
If you say that learn how to be self sufficient, then do/fix the script more quick. Get more ideas, get more scripts to earn money. Hire more scripters, get them on work and work with the server more.

Last I heard this was a roleplay server, not an economy/money based server. What's the goal here because all I see is people wanting money when the actual server is based around roleplay.

You talk like you've got a server with a stable 100 players something and that the absense of these 3 or 4 groups wont matter. What you don't know is that these groups are the only active people on the server. If you don't make something that actually satisfies people then we both know what happens next.
And no, I'm not talking about free money, I'm talking about fixing/continuing what you started.

Oh well, then I guess I won't have to listen to nonsense from people that can't respect others within this community anymore.
We put in our time to try and help out yet the only thing people seem to care about is themselves and their virtual money on a roleplay game.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:30:01 pm
I'll never agree to issue money to the groups for no reason when they're been given vehicle after they get recognized. Every problem has a solution. Do something regarding the criminal script. Criminals are still waiting for the bank robbery script. I don't see any reason behind posting a topic regarding a script which  doesn't even have a base? Work on the script, release it, get ideas, implement them. This is the way we should work out.

You seem to be under the impression that scripting something is quick and easy yet you clearly fail to see where you are wrong.
The scripters are not paid to work here, they are not compensated for the time they spend creating scripts for players whom just throw it back in their faces.

They spend hours of their time trying to fix bugs just to have more complaints about this feature or that bug when they do all they can.

Time for people to start being grateful for what others have sacrificed in order for you and others to be able to play on Argonath.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:30:23 pm
Some people complain we don't listen to players, yet most of RS5 scripts come from the Idea Boards  :uhm:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Khm on October 19, 2014, 06:34:20 pm
How about we all stop complaining about virtual money and grow up a bit? I thought we are here to role-play and enjoy, not make future salary for our kids.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Luke on October 19, 2014, 06:37:15 pm
How about we all stop complaining about virtual money and grow up a bit? I thought we are here to role-play and enjoy, not make future salary for our kids.

After all its just a game, and I thought we was all friends.  :lol:

People be more worried about earning money in a video game then real life, but that's none of my business.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 19, 2014, 06:38:04 pm
The level of hostility towards players on this topic is beyond unacceptable. The leadership is here to provide strategic guidance and support where required, even if it is in exceptional circumstances where a business case is justified.

I will post a reply soon, but do not expect a friendly one.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 06:38:56 pm
Not really. The active groups are in-game working their way up, not on the forum begging for random things.

Most Active Groups This Month
SAA 6774 minutes
CIA 2945 minutes
Kolta 2772 minutes
Sforza 2346 minutes
RockStar 1338 minutes
Oh right, lemme show you how active they are:

SAA, 15 players who are either doing nothing in game or are inactive.
CIA, only active because of khm, who is doing admin stuff.
Kolta, dead, or simply name tags.
Sforza, please, when was the last time you saw one in game.
Rock star, most active rp group 2k14, it's an admin group, give a f**king break with this bullshit.

Such activity, much players, very groups, wow.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 06:40:35 pm
Last I heard this was a roleplay server, not an economy/money based server. What's the goal here because all I see is people wanting money when the actual server is based around roleplay.

What kind of a roleplay server? In my point of view, no one RP'es around the server. My first opinion, why don't we force a player to RP? Why there's no IC and OCC? It's a RP server, but no one is forced to RP. Good logic I see behind.

Oh well, then I guess I won't have to listen to nonsense from people that can't respect others within this community anymore.
We put in our time to try and help out yet the only thing people seem to care about is themselves and their virtual money on a roleplay game.

Okay. You posted a topic regarding a new script just to get compliments and ideas about it. You posted the topic before even you started to script it. Why? Script that thing and then post a topic before loading it into the game, instead of posting a topic so earlier.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Luke on October 19, 2014, 06:41:51 pm
Suggest quitting before you are ahead.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Khm on October 19, 2014, 06:45:09 pm
Oh right, lemme show you how active they are:
CIA, only active because of khm, who is doing admin stuff.
It's in that average since 4 months ago.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Sandi on October 19, 2014, 06:46:54 pm
Why are some of you guys so unthankfull :s

Its not all about money and shit..its about meeting new people and helping them around..

I bet there is at least 5-10 new players a day joining for the first time..PM them..help them..tell them what do to and what not to do..

Have fun instead of being unthankfull
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 06:47:06 pm
It's in that average since 4 months ago.
I bet it's bugged or something, wow, what a surprise!
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 19, 2014, 06:50:10 pm
Some people complain we don't listen to players, yet most of RS5 scripts come from the Idea Boards  :uhm:
Which had such a wide range of ideas, that it's not difficult to make that claim while implementing whatever Gandalf wanted.


Anyway, it's silly to think it's a bad thing that people want money for guns for shootouts and chases and stuff, I mean, how else are cops going to make money, why else would you buy fast cars, why else would you play GTA? Lol..


Then those that just want and want without doing anything can rightfully piss off, you think we are going to give into pressure to issue money as a way of group support?  Players don't get to decide what support we issue for groups, should consider lucky we even give anything since so many don't deserve it.
With all due respect, people have been rightfully pissing off. Make a return of BSF then, at least for a period of time, so that people can at least get their capital started up, while being able to have a RP job that they want, I mean, trucking or firemen, that's a huge variety of jobs isn't it..

My point being, people had large capitals before and worked a lot for that, they don't want to grind the same thing over and over again for days to have some fun, I'd be playing Destiny if I did, not SA:MP. I used to play SA:MP to have fun, not to work my ass off after I've been working my ass off all day already. When is the last time you spent an entire day trucking, Cyril? Rusty? Devin? No? So you don't actually have any idea how idiotically boring it is?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:52:08 pm
Anyway, it's silly to think it's a bad thing that people want money for guns for shootouts and chases and stuff, I mean, how else are cops going to make money, why else would you buy fast cars, why else would you play GTA? Lol..

It's a roleplay server, not some kind of cops and robbers...
You don't need guns nor fast cars. They are only tools.

When is the last time you spent an entire day trucking, Cyril? Rusty? Devin? No? So you don't actually have any idea how idiotically boring it is?

Never, because while you play, we are working for you to be able to play with the best conditions possible.
If you think sitting the whole day doing babysitting is not boring.. And while you earn money, we don't.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:53:41 pm
What kind of a roleplay server? In my point of view, no one RP'es around the server. My first opinion, why don't we force a player to RP? Why there's no IC and OCC? It's a RP server, but no one is forced to RP. Good logic I see behind.

No one roleplays? Okay fine that's your opinion. Why don't we force roleplay? Because we are not some strict roleplay server where you get banned for not saying the right words in order or get admin jailed for a period of hours not minutes.
There's more roleplay on Argonath coming from new players than many old players, where does the problem lie now?

Okay. You posted a topic regarding a new script just to get compliments and ideas about it. You posted the topic before even you started to script it. Why? Script that thing and then post a topic before loading it into the game, instead of posting a topic so earlier.

Oh I posted a topic about new scripts? No I did not. I am not a scripter.
I posted a topic about something new to be added? No I did not, as I said above I am not a scripter.

If you would take time to think, the topics were posted before the scripts were released to give players an idea of possible upcoming enhancements and additions to the server.
To let players know of what's going on and what to expect. If they weren't posted before the release then players would complain that no work is being done as no one told them.
When someone tells them in advance they then moan that it hasn't arrived yet.

There's no pleasing some of you, I start to wonder how some were raised by their parents in cases like these.

Acting like right spoilt brats, never happy until someone gets pissed off or gives up.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 06:56:37 pm
It's a roleplay server, not some kind of cops and robbers...
You don't need guns nor fast cars. They are only tools.
Name one roleplay scenario that is encouraged by the server. None, because you aren't forcing roleplay nor supporting it.

Take medic roleplay, none does it anymore because no one goes on medic duty. I saw someone offering 4k for a medic to rp, no one cared.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 06:56:51 pm
When is the last time you spent an entire day trucking, Cyril? Rusty? Devin? No? So you don't actually have any idea how idiotically boring it is?

When is the last time you spent an entire day looking into logs, dealing with players queries, assisting others, ensuring the server is clean of people attempting to cheat and all at the same time trying to manage an administration team? No? So get lost with your fucking judgement of my team already.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 06:58:53 pm
Name one roleplay scenario that is encouraged by the server. None, because you aren't forcing roleplay nor supporting it.

Take medic roleplay, none does it anymore because no one goes on medic duty. I saw someone offering 4k for a medic to rp, no one cared.

From what I saw, if we were to enforce proper roleplay, we would have to ban a huge amount of players for not being able to roleplay properly.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 07:01:20 pm
My point being, people had large capitals before and worked a lot for that, they don't want to grind the same thing over and over again for days to have some fun, I'd be playing Destiny if I did, not SA:MP. I used to play SA:MP to have fun, not to work my ass off after I've been working my ass off all day already. When is the last time you spent an entire day trucking, Cyril? Rusty? Devin? No? So you don't actually have any idea how idiotically boring it is?

 :app:

No one roleplays? Okay fine that's your opinion. Why don't we force roleplay? Because we are not some strict roleplay server where you get banned for not saying the right words in order or get admin jailed for a period of hours not minutes.
There's more roleplay on Argonath coming from new players than many old players, where does the problem lie now?

Hah. No RP = DM. People who don't RP, leads them to DM. Why do new players DM so offensively? Let's bring up a solution for this. It would be great if a new player joins and a small intro about the server is given to him.

I'm not against anyone of you, I just want to suggest some of my ideas.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 19, 2014, 07:05:04 pm
My point being, people had large capitals before and worked a lot for that, they don't want to grind the same thing over and over again for days to have some fun, I'd be playing Destiny if I did, not SA:MP. I used to play SA:MP to have fun, not to work my ass off after I've been working my ass off all day already. When is the last time you spent an entire day trucking, Cyril? Rusty? Devin? No? So you don't actually have any idea how idiotically boring it is?

Why would I go trucking when I can go have more fun roleplaying with people I know?  I ain't here to make virtual money.

Anyway, it's silly to think it's a bad thing that people want money for guns for shootouts and chases and stuff, I mean, how else are cops going to make money, why else would you buy fast cars, why else would you play GTA? Lol..

With all due respect, people have been rightfully pissing off. Make a return of BSF then, at least for a period of time, so that people can at least get their capital started up, while being able to have a RP job that they want, I mean, trucking or firemen, that's a huge variety of jobs isn't it..

It's the way people go about wanting it by literally demanding we just give them, that is not how it works no matter if you see it differently.  BSF re-starting is for someone above to consider (nope not Gandalf) I have my own area within SA:MP to go about.

Why are some of you guys so unthankfull :s
Its not all about money and shit..its about meeting new people and helping them around..
I bet there is at least 5-10 new players a day joining for the first time..PM them..help them..tell them what do to and what not to do..
Have fun instead of being unthankfull

The only sane post in this topic.

For now lets just calm the fuck down (myself included) we've went to far into derailing the topic, it's about group support not forced roleplay, how boring trucking is or any of that.  Point onwards let's move back onto topic in a more friendly approach, I'll let you all in a secret when we was discussing group support I brought up idea of issuing only the Official groups with money (even though am against it now for more obvious reasons) but it wasn't backed enough to go through.  Apart from that I don't know what we can offer?  Drugs? 

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Alexander_Souliwich on October 19, 2014, 07:18:49 pm
This is like seeing the world talk about politics, and everything just gets worse.
 :app:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 07:23:05 pm
This is like seeing the world talk about politics, and everything just gets worse.
 :app:
Everyone is welcome talk bullshit, it's not like anything will change.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: superh2o on October 19, 2014, 07:23:59 pm
Everyone is welcome talk bullshit, it's not like anything will change.
Mature and very helpful.  :app: :app:

Any ways you don't know what you had till you lose it.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 19, 2014, 07:26:33 pm
If you think sitting the whole day doing babysitting is not boring.. And while you earn money, we don't.
When is the last time you spent an entire day looking into logs, dealing with players queries, assisting others, ensuring the server is clean of people attempting to cheat and all at the same time trying to manage an administration team?
Hey, now you know how it feels being told to "Just go out there and make money" as if it was the best thing ever. And for the record, last time was probably a couple of months ago, did you think you're so special that only you can have a management position within a community that you assume others don't know nothing?
So get lost with your f**king judgement of my team already.
Never said nothing about Rusty, he's alright, actually reads what's being said and takes time to form a response and doesn't need three sets of ladders to reach his horse.

Speaking of,
Why would I go trucking when I can go have more fun roleplaying with people I know?
Exactly. But people still need money, because, hello, 2006 called, said it wants the phrase 'Just RP it' back. But hey, BSF would solve that issue, sure, there were many problems with people making companies and not actually offering anything in terms of roleplay, but people actually did RP jobs and you could always find something for you to do. But that's a discussion for another time, let's just say I haven't seen anyone use a towtruck, news van or a sweeper for their purpose since BSF closed down.

It's the way people go about wanting it by literally demanding we just give them, that is not how it works no matter if you see it differently.  BSF re-starting is for someone above to consider (nope not Gandalf) I have my own area within SA:MP to go about.
Yeah, there are better ways to go about it, but bottom line is that not having variety in terms of money making opportunities just drives people away. There was a time when a new player would ask how to make money, and they'd be told that there are a lot of different opportunities, but first they'd have to study for a passport to get to that, and meanwhile they can do some scripted jobs. People would line up for a passport and actually study for it, cause failing it would mean not having a job for even longer, and then they'd go out there and drive buses, or sell hotdogs or tend bars.

Now? Yeah, get into a truck and hope manager doesn't do a vehicle reset while you go about mindlessly trucking back and forth. And do that for the entire day. Or extinguish fires once every 30 minutes.

So yeah, BSF. Just needs more active control over who deserves money, more active than it was before, where no one actually gave two fucks and the management never logged on.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 07:29:23 pm
And for the record, last time was probably a couple of months ago, did you think you're so special that only you can have a management position within a community that you assume others don't know nothing?

I management position on Flight Simulator which is not even online hardly justifies anything but abuse within HQ of other parts of the community.
And no, BSF will never return.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 19, 2014, 07:30:50 pm
I management position on Flight Simulator which is not even online hardly justifies anything but abuse within HQ of other parts of the community.
And no, BSF will never return.
....Speaking of high horses, do you think Argonath is the only community on the whole of the internet?

And hey, how do you know it won't, didn't you say you don't deal with scripts, and whatever scripters release, so be it? What if someone's scripting BSF in?  :app:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 19, 2014, 07:34:44 pm
I disagree with Frank on money support.

Yes it would be nice if groups would get some financial injections, but that's not the solution. But making the drug script actually worth spending our time on would be.
The current drug script is fucked up, you earn more by doing any other legal job then being a drug dealer, and it should and must be the most profitable business by script.

Why? First cause its illegal, second cause you got a big ass competitions(and most dangerous comptetions not just some fireworker kicking your ass with shovel :lol:), third cause you got FBI and police on your ass, etc.
Drug business is the hearth and basic operation of all criminal groups, its like the /suspect script among cops, making it useless as it is now, is making the whole groups continuously activity useless.
Also we need new drugs around, how about cocaine, how about some effects from those drugs which usage can actually help?

In simple words,
Most of us aren't asking you for the fish, yet to give us the stick so we can catch some ourself.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Marcel on October 19, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
I think the current system with recognized and official groups is fine. It shortens the process of obtaining support which was very lengthy or even near impossible in RS4 and before. In my opinion, a form of monetary support for business can be done, but it will require a very strict and transparent approval process, something which i think is very hard.

Minor boosts to the economy and drug market can solve this problem. Monitor the amount of cash in hands, banks and see how much moves around. If a majority of the money becomes idle, stop injecting into the economy and create means for it to be spent and used. This is where a group of people with knowledge of economy comes in handy. Get together once every two weeks, discuss the current situation with HQ and set goals for the next two weeks. This will install a stable economy where prices and activity are in balance and as such, a fertile soil for server growth in general will be set, creating reasons for new players to stick around and raise the server population in general.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 07:37:19 pm
....Speaking of high horses, do you think Argonath is the only community on the whole of the internet?

And hey, how do you know it won't, didn't you say you don't deal with scripts, and whatever scripters release, so be it? What if someone's scripting BSF in?  :app:

I said BSF will not return which means it will not return, you don't need to try and throw yourself into matters that don't concern you.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 19, 2014, 07:39:03 pm
70 percent of BSF was a classic export of script cash for personal usage anyway.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 19, 2014, 07:41:25 pm
I think the current system with recognized and official groups is fine. It shortens the process of obtaining support which was very lengthy or even near impossible in RS4 and before. In my opinion, a form of monetary support for business can be done, but it will require a very strict and transparent approval process, something which i think is very hard.

Minor boosts to the economy and drug market can solve this problem. Monitor the amount of cash in hands, banks and see how much moves around. If a majority of the money becomes idle, stop injecting into the economy and create means for it to be spent and used. This is where a group of people with knowledge of economy comes in handy. Get together once every two weeks, discuss the current situation with HQ and set goals for the next two weeks. This will install a stable economy where prices and activity are in balance and as such, a fertile soil for server growth in general will be set, creating reasons for new players to stick around and raise the server population in general.

Just my two cents.

This man should be made owner of the server.  :app:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 07:43:18 pm
This man should be made owner of the server.  :app:

Too bad you haven't seen behind the scenes where people bring out their claws.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 07:43:24 pm
I think the current system with recognized and official groups is fine. It shortens the process of obtaining support which was very lengthy or even near impossible in RS4 and before. In my opinion, a form of monetary support for business can be done, but it will require a very strict and transparent approval process, something which i think is very hard.

Minor boosts to the economy and drug market can solve this problem. Monitor the amount of cash in hands, banks and see how much moves around. If a majority of the money becomes idle, stop injecting into the economy and create means for it to be spent and used. This is where a group of people with knowledge of economy comes in handy. Get together once every two weeks, discuss the current situation with HQ and set goals for the next two weeks. This will install a stable economy where prices and activity are in balance and as such, a fertile soil for server growth in general will be set, creating reasons for new players to stick around and raise the server population in general.

Just my two cents.

No money is being injected. All the money is already in the system, that's why we can't spawn it.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 19, 2014, 07:45:23 pm
You don't need to spawn it.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 07:49:50 pm
Here's a solution to everything, hire scripters who can get this wagon moving again. We don't need free money, we need actual, bug-less ways to earn it. And the ideas board is full of them.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 07:51:01 pm
Here's a solution to everything, hire scripters who can get this wagon moving again. We don't need free money, we need actual, bug-less ways to earn it. And the ideas board is full of them.

Scripters who want to help are free to talk to Gimli and show what they are capable of.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 07:51:10 pm
Here's a solution to everything, hire scripters who can get this wagon moving again. We don't need free money, we need actual, bug-less ways to earn it. And the ideas board is full of them.

This is want most of the players are trying to explain since the last 3-4 pages.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Marcel on October 19, 2014, 07:52:36 pm
No money is being injected. All the money is already in the system, that's why we can't spawn it.
In my message, injecting wasn't meant as spawning. The Bank of Argonath gets income from ATM usage and loans, which means that the government has money to spend, doesn't it? (correct me if i'm wrong, please). If that is indeed the case, that money can be used for minor injections to good initiatives by players. Just minor pushes, enough to steer the economy into a certain direction which is beneficial for the entire playerbase. Personal enrichment as a result of these injections can either be punishable as script abuse or subject to legal repercussions (court, hint hint).

Seeing as this is currently a hot topic with many people having different opinions, i think it is a good idea to have this topic open for anyone who has a constructive opinion, willing to solve this "problem" (is it actually a problem or are we just thinking the wrong way?).
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 07:54:15 pm
Scripters who wants to help are free to talk to Gimli and show what they are capable of.
No. They'll get rejected with pathetic excuses like "we don't need scripters", "we got enough scripters", "we got a lot of active scripters and we don't need more"
 
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 19, 2014, 07:56:01 pm
No. They'll get rejected with pathetic excuses like "we don't need scripters", "we got enough scripters", "we got a lot of active scripters and we don't need more"
 

Then if the person leading the scripting team thinks he has enough scripters, it's his right. He knows better than us after all.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 07:56:53 pm
Scripters who want to help are free to talk to Gimli and show what they are capable of.

Are we allowed to invite scripters to the community? We need a strong answer. What if I invited them here to the community and they got rejected for the reasons that TiMoN stated.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 19, 2014, 07:57:18 pm
I said BSF will not return which means it will not return, you don't need to try and throw yourself into matters that don't concern you.
It's called 'Offering ideas', still haven't seen a reason to believe you don't need them, though pretty sure you'd ignore them based on them coming from me, not based on content anyway. Whatever reasons you have not to support BSF, you have to recognise the need for one, or at least a similar system, one that would reward players and promote RP at the same time, otherwise you have people asking about enforcing RP, since there's not enough of it otherwise. Suppose that's a better situation.

While I have your attention, what happened to
Quote
2.   Argonath gives equal rights to new, experienced and admin players. We do not discriminate between players, and having admin rights or being a long time player does not give any of our players rights to act as better, higher or having more status as another.
Because seriously, you're everything but saying "I'm leader, you're not, shut up" whenever I say anything.

No. They'll get rejected with pathetic excuses like "we don't need scripters", "we got enough scripters", "we got a lot of active scripters and we don't need more"
Have you never spoken to Gimli before? D:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 19, 2014, 07:58:02 pm
So yeah, BSF. Just needs more active control over who deserves money, more active than it was before, where no one actually gave two f**ks and the management never logged on.

Really you could just set-up a group for BSF in-game and allow specific people to withdraw money from the group bank account.  Panel logs all transactions as it is so anyone trying to "steal" from it would easily be banned and have their inventory wiped.  BSF was never led properly during RS4, money was hoarded up by those who were supposed to issue it, I can see why we (SA:MP HQ) are against bringing it back even if it is some sort of last hope.

Other ways to earn are needed/current one's tweaked for the time being.  We have a pretty nice trucking script which I can think of a dozen ideas to add to it, hijacking loads from truck drivers and sell to some sort of "black market" for a tidy sum is one example.  The whole business script could do with work to finally make businesses earn, people sitting with them can't do much right now except watch as people enter and that money they spent disappear into thin air instead of lining their pockets.

If we are giving support to groups then maybe we should do the same for businesses, in hind sight it's only fair.


Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 07:58:02 pm
Then if the person leading the scripting team thinks he has enough scripters, it's his right. He knows better than us after all.

Name one single scripter that has done anything to the server in the last month.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 19, 2014, 07:58:47 pm
Then if the person leading the scripting team thinks he has enough scripters, it's his right. He knows better than us after all.

Thinks? Do they even think what they are doing? I think we need someone to wake them up, shake their heads. If he says that he got much scripters then where's the work? Much..
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 19, 2014, 08:01:06 pm
Have you never spoken to Gimli before? D:
Three times, rejected each time with a similar excuse. Also talked to Zaila like two times already.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 19, 2014, 08:08:42 pm
Really you could just set-up a group for BSF in-game and allow specific people to withdraw money from the group bank account. 
Ohhhh yes, completely forgot about that system.

It doesn't have to be a 'last hope', if properly monitored, managed and controlled, BSF can be the most valuable asset to the RP on Argonath - actually look into what the businesses are doing (instead of whatever system was there before, post 3 screenshots of you 'RPing' that will never be viewed by anyone to be eligible for your paycheck, and at the end of the month, just ask Gimli for 3 million and do whatever you want with it), award the businesses based on productivity rather than amount of workers there, and have the business owners manage their income as best they can, lay off people if they have to and so on.

Point being, it doesn't have to be people being in 10 businesses to collect an arbitrary number from each one every month, it can be an economic plan where people who know economics and business management will strive, instead of people who know that hiring new players is good, because they will probably quit and never collect their money.

If we are giving support to groups then maybe we should do the same for businesses, in hind sight it's only fair.
Not only fair, it would solve a bunch of issues.

Three times, rejected each time with a similar excuse. Also talked to Zaila like two times already.
Oh that's weird, I think he's one of the most sensible person to talk about things like that.


Edit: Another way to use group script would be to have businesses have their own groups, where a BSF representative would have a position with access to their bank account to put the money into, AND access to BSF bank account to withdraw from, that would limit the amount of unnecessary access to too much money.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 19, 2014, 08:45:20 pm
Thinks? Do they even think what they are doing? I think we need someone to wake them up, shake their heads. If he says that he got much scripters then where's the work? Much..

I could always ask what you are doing on Paruni if you would like?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kessu on October 19, 2014, 08:52:11 pm
Three times, rejected each time with a similar excuse. Also talked to Zaila like two times already.
You've gotten rejected from the scripting team?

Let me be completely straight with you, if you came to ask me to script the server I'm leading and you have this attitude on forums I'd tell you to fuck off from my sight.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hamza_Khan on October 19, 2014, 09:29:37 pm
I have one question why there isn't business profit script.I mean people work their ass off to earn then they buy any business but in the end there is just name of them in it as they can't get any benefit from it
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Doggie on October 19, 2014, 09:32:31 pm
Fffffsssssss  why do all of you complain like monkeys, we know rs5 sucks but enjoy what you got
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Traser on October 20, 2014, 02:31:13 am
This topic will remain open for discussion, Not provoking, any provocation/flaming or what soever will be punished.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 20, 2014, 05:41:58 am
I could always ask what you are doing on Paruni if you would like?

What? Paruni is a DM'ing server. Yes, I know as like us, Paruni's Management is also sleeping. We need more scripters. I cannot do a shit for this because I don't have much access. I'm not blaming anyone from the management team, I blame the way you work.

By this I don't mean that I'll quit my job connected with paruni. I'll stand for it and will bring the changes which I'm able to bring.

I have one question why there isn't business profit script.I mean people work their ass off to earn then they buy any business but in the end there is just name of them in it as they can't get any benefit from it

Good point. Well, why didn't the players cried for money on RS4? We had much scripts in RS4 to earn money. The business script, the profit we get from our business. Why isn't that script here yet? They work their ass of to earn money, just to buy a business. At the end, we had to know that there's no profit.

I'll much appreciate if this script is brought back.




I'm not in any intention to hurt anyone from the management team. I just want to make the server to its worth. That's all.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 20, 2014, 10:16:24 am
I'm not blaming anyone from the management team, I blame the way you work.

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 20, 2014, 11:27:59 am
:rofl:

If you can't do a shit of the server, then please appoint someone else to manage it.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 20, 2014, 11:33:33 am
If you can't do a shit of the server, then please appoint someone else to manage it.

If you can't see what happens higher up, then stop talking.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 20, 2014, 11:37:54 am
Some people forgot this topic: http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=86639.0
Take your time to read it again.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on October 20, 2014, 11:59:11 am
If you can't do a shit of the server, then please appoint someone else to manage it.

Are you talking out of your butt? Or you're just arguing for arguing sakes?

KelvinC is appointed as the new leader of SA:MP. KelvinC does not have sufficient rights and cannot seem to reach Gandalf for any access arrangements despite months of attempts in doing so. KelvinC wishes to not repeat the same economy mistakes as there was in RS4. KelvinC is screwed. KelvinC is over. KelvinC.

Be considerate from a manager's point of view instead of suggesting ways of digging in shortcuts in order to reach your group or families standards.
The management have learnt from RS4 that supporting groups and families with financial support only leads to the economy becoming to a bad point where things are just beyond un-stable.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 20, 2014, 12:01:55 pm
If you can't see what happens higher up, then stop talking.

Some people forgot this topic: http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=86639.0
Take your time to read it again.

Well, look, I'm not here to shit on someone. If you took it negatively, I'm sorry about it. I want you guys to build a proper system. We're here to have fun. We don't get paid to play here, nor you guys get paid to do this work. I know there are something other then this from what we're not aware of.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Murt on October 20, 2014, 12:04:08 pm
Some people have to be really brain dead, this topic is about group support and not every other topic aside that is discussed.

Unfortunate that some do like to ruin for other people, disrespectful and selfish. Idiotic.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 20, 2014, 12:05:19 pm
Are you talking out of your butt? Or you're just arguing for arguing sakes?

KelvinC is appointed as the new leader of SA:MP. KelvinC does not have sufficient rights and cannot seem to reach Gandalf for any access arrangements despite months of attempts in doing so. KelvinC wishes to not repeat the same economy mistakes as there was in RS4. KelvinC is screwed. KelvinC is over. KelvinC.

Be considerate from a manager's point of view instead of suggesting ways of digging in shortcuts in order to reach your group or families standards.
The management have learnt from RS4 that supporting groups and families with financial support only leads to the economy becoming to a bad point where things are just beyond un-stable.

Not to appoint some as a new manager/leader. Appoint some more scripters and make the way throughout.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cyril on October 20, 2014, 12:13:35 pm
It's up to Gimli to decide if he wants more scripter or not.
Managers have no control on scripters.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: KelviNC on October 20, 2014, 12:16:24 pm
It's up to Gimli to decide if he wants more scripter or not.
Managers have no control on scripters.

We had enough of it. I'll quit it here. I'm sorry if anyone got hurt. And of-course, sorry for ruining the topic, for sure. :D
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Hamza_Khan on October 20, 2014, 12:43:17 pm
It's up to Gimli to decide if he wants more scripter or not.
Managers have no control on scripters.
I don't think that we need more scripters,I believe that  current scripters can change the server, all we need to do is just little patch up in our server as I said that business profit script and few more for our criminal groups and as Gimli recommended the bank robbery script if this kind of few scripts come then you all will see the difference in playerbase
And as far as managers and leaders concerned they are giving their best to the  server tell me who will read the logs all day to find that there isn't rulebreaking stuff or anyone who is against the sake of the server I think they are doing a good job and we all need to do appreciate them
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Mr. Goobii on October 20, 2014, 12:46:35 pm
Dead man walking, dead man walking! Soon, very soon. The dead man walks toward a dead end.

rip.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: TiMoN on October 20, 2014, 01:24:30 pm
You've gotten rejected from the scripting team?

Let me be completely straight with you, if you came to ask me to script the server I'm leading and you have this attitude on forums I'd tell you to f**k off from my sight.
A "f**k off" is still better than this, at least because I can tell you to f**k off back.

Now watch this post get deleted and yours kept by our dear fair forum mods.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 20, 2014, 06:24:45 pm
A-team, you don't need money because you do admin work. I would prefer being stricter, but at lesst we have them Thank you for the contribution, but I think it's not the topic about you, because you might not feel the need of money.



Now, Rusty mentioned a good point. Official familes need a lot of motivation and I know this because I'm in one. And, I'm not asking for money. I said this before this topic got mainstream, but I'll repat. We need ways, solutions, to inject money into the server, and by that I don't mean spawning them. How can we do this, but due to current scripters being away/busy, within current script capabilities ? Drugs.
They don't influence the Argonath Bank monetary value, so there's still place for paydays, etc. They are money spawned in the server, as if they come from another state. ( exporting drugs, as gandalf said. ) Recognized groups have no difference with Official groups, despite one less vehicle. ( rewarded by hq)  Increasing the drug market price for official groups, I think will improve the server's atmosphere, will inject more money to groups, and to freelancers. That is the only way. Because having a low price will kill us all. Slowly, but it will.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kessu on October 20, 2014, 06:53:04 pm
Increasing the drug market price for official groups, I think will improve the server's atmosphere, will inject more money to groups, and to freelancers. That is the only way. Because having a low price will kill us all. Slowly, but it will.
The fact that "only official" groups should get increased income from drugs somewhat bothers me. Why is there any need to differentiate groups from one another more than there already is?

I'm fairly sure that giving "official groups" increased bonuses all the time will not help the server, it'll just make your day easier.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kaze on October 20, 2014, 07:07:10 pm
To make life simpler for both parties (HQ and the community), Gandalf should pay all the scripters $50 for their ''hard'' work making/developing RS5. This way the scripters cant chat shit about ''Oh we are very offended, we spend ages doing this for free''. After this has been done, we simply return to RS4 where Argonath was a happy place to be.

To make this fair for Gandalf, some of us that have jobs in real life should chip in a maximum of $5. After the scripters are paid off, RS4 returns. Before RS4 returns, Gandalf needs to once and for all make a list of rules that are and not allowed in the server. There are so many occassions where HQ take matters into their own hands and make rules on the spot. And yes, before you start to jump to conclusions I will happily donate £5.

I'm gonna make an example of this by using DHR Marcel's recent unban request. If someone finds me an Argonath rule that you can not make fun of the server's script then I'll hand in my request to be permanently community banned. Don't get me wrong, I respect a lot of the HQ members, I'm just generalising.

If you want to take this as a provocation, be my guest. I'm just here voicing my opinion. Argonath turned into some Stalin type of shit, we need it back to Democracy NOW before the community starts crashing down.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 20, 2014, 07:11:30 pm
I'm gonna make an example of this by using DHR Marcel's recent unban request. If someone finds me an Argonath rule that you can not make fun of the server's script then I'll hand in my request to be permanently community banned. Don't get me wrong, I respect a lot of the HQ members, I'm just generalising.

If want to be here I would advise you to not put your nose where it does not belong. There is far more at play than a simple video that led to the ban.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kaze on October 20, 2014, 07:16:49 pm
If want to be here I would advise you to not put your nose where it does not belong. There is far more at play than a simple video that led to the ban.

Fair enough, there may be more to it than just a video but you just proven what I had to say. 'If you want to be here', I take that as a threat and I dont think there IS a rule that I can get banned or w/e for giving my opinion on a player's unban. Do you understand where I am coming from?

If you are being provoked, please let me know so I can stop. My intentions are not to provoke but to give my opinion in our crisis.



At the end of the day.. (quote from a Gulucan member)
Quote
all the admins can fuke off you are all liers
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Rusty on October 20, 2014, 07:48:36 pm
A-team, you don't need money because you do admin work. I would prefer being stricter, but at lesst we have them Thank you for the contribution, but I think it's not the topic about you, because you might not feel the need of money.



Now, Rusty mentioned a good point. Official familes need a lot of motivation and I know this because I'm in one. And, I'm not asking for money. I said this before this topic got mainstream, but I'll repat. We need ways, solutions, to inject money into the server, and by that I don't mean spawning them. How can we do this, but due to current scripters being away/busy, within current script capabilities ? Drugs.
They don't influence the Argonath Bank monetary value, so there's still place for paydays, etc. They are money spawned in the server, as if they come from another state. ( exporting drugs, as gandalf said. ) Recognized groups have no difference with Official groups, despite one less vehicle. ( rewarded by hq)  Increasing the drug market price for official groups, I think will improve the server's atmosphere, will inject more money to groups, and to freelancers. That is the only way. Because having a low price will kill us all. Slowly, but it will.

Not because we are in the Administration team that we don't need money, personally I simply have no need for it I don't wish to have multiple vehicles or properties or even buy weapons and drugs.  Four years ago sure I'd have been working ass off to buy a Buffalo and a house to store my weapons in but reality hit me that why am I wasting time working in a game when I have better stuff to do that needs my attention?  I barely play compared to what I used, I only come online to conduct Manager work and what not. 

Prices for the drug market change every five days or whatever (can't mind exact) it's far to long for people to wait when they have stocked up enough to sell on but find that they got shit price and have to wait another five days to chance it or sell to a player.  IMHO should be changed each day or every six hours, no-one can complain at that.  Without businesses earning anything it hampers people who own them, think of all the profit owners have lost in last ten months?  There is ways to earn they simply need fixed to work.

RS4 had the lottery why don't we have that back? 


Went off-topic at the end there but I can't think of anything more to add to supporting groups, money is the most obvious as is drugs.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Traser on October 20, 2014, 10:23:36 pm
Closed until further notice
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 20, 2014, 10:34:14 pm
Hi,

Since my last topic was hijacked by the leadership, management and players - I am making a new topic.

To avoid this topic being locked - can I request forum moderators to remove any unrelated posts from this topic. Can I also request the leadership/management team only respond to thought provoking proposals rather than spending time responding to idiotic people. Additionally, can I also request players to withhold positing unless it's constructive to the conversation.

Problem statement:
The Argonath SA:MP community faces a unprecedented challenges ahead. SA:MP is in heavy decline and we have lost countless players since the introduction of RS5. RS5 has its own set of challenges, which can be described as a product which is not yet finished. It's clear that it will be a very long time until we have the finished product and it may not even be achievable since the SA:MP scripting team's productivity has slowed down drastically in terms of resolving defects and introducing enhancements as promised. This is understandable given the level of criticism towards them which hasn't helped to boost morale resulting in a lose, lose outcome for the community. We need to come up with a solution, which allows organic growth in the community, but also makes us attractive to new players and beyond. We need to do this to keep our legacy alive and to avoid us turning into a community which will be in a irreversible state of decline.

What do we do now?
With the SA:MP scripting team's productivity being at a all time low, there are still many elements of functionality that is missing particularly for criminal / family groups. First of all, we need to understand from the leadership/management what our strategic vision is. Are we a RLRP server or a relatively relaxed RP server? Being a veteran, I can't seem to even answer this question. There are elements of functionality i.e. the bank system which replicate RLRP scenarios while other elements of functionality indicate we are a free roam light RP server (as we have traditionally been) - what are we?

Once we have answered the above, we can start working out solutions to address a number of issues we are experiencing.

In regards to Cofi's points - he is perfectly valid and has come up with a long term solution. However with the current level of morale and available resource in the SA:MP scripting team, this is simply not prudent in the short term. And to a degree, even I don't believe we will have much 'buy in' for this, especially given the traditional lean towards law enforcement in our community.

DHR.Marcel suggested a very good idea which I'd like to bring to your attention as a community:

I think the current system with recognized and official groups is fine. It shortens the process of obtaining support which was very lengthy or even near impossible in RS4 and before. In my opinion, a form of monetary support for business can be done, but it will require a very strict and transparent approval process, something which i think is very hard.

Minor boosts to the economy and drug market can solve this problem. Monitor the amount of cash in hands, banks and see how much moves around. If a majority of the money becomes idle, stop injecting into the economy and create means for it to be spent and used. This is where a group of people with knowledge of economy comes in handy. Get together once every two weeks, discuss the current situation with HQ and set goals for the next two weeks.
This will install a stable economy where prices and activity are in balance and as such, a fertile soil for server growth in general will be set, creating reasons for new players to stick around and raise the server population in general.

What is the view on DHR.Marcel's suggestion above?

Ultimately, in my view - we need a short term solution to the problems we are facing. We have very limited SA:MP scripting team support and whatever support we do have in place will not meet the demands of the players. We need to seek out alternative solutions which don't involve development support. DHR.Mike's idea is very good and I'm sure manageable for the leadership team to regulate.

Happy to hear your thoughts.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Conroy on October 20, 2014, 10:41:31 pm
http://wiki.sa-mp.com/wiki/Scripting_Basics
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Marcel on October 20, 2014, 10:45:29 pm
Hint hint, i'm not DHR.Mike ;) But yes, you formulated the problem very clearly. We can build upon the basic idea that i posted earlier. What should be extended and improved upon that?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Zaila on October 20, 2014, 10:46:52 pm
Topic unlocked again.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Teddy on October 20, 2014, 10:48:49 pm
I don't think that we need more scripters,I believe that  current scripters can change the server, all we need to do is just little patch up in our server as I said that business profit script and few more for our criminal groups and as Gimli recommended the bank robbery script if this kind of few scripts come then you all will see the difference in playerbase

lol
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: stormeus on October 20, 2014, 11:07:40 pm
To make life simpler for both parties (HQ and the community), Gandalf should pay all the scripters $50 for their ''hard'' work making/developing RS5. This way the scripters cant chat shit about ''Oh we are very offended, we spend ages doing this for free''. After this has been done, we simply return to RS4 where Argonath was a happy place to be.

>implying scripters are slaves
>implying scripters are not volunteers who willingly devote time to improving the server
>implying this greentext is even appropriate here

Is group status really so important that you deserve free money and increased drug money? HQs are your reward for being a cooperative and active roleplay group, adding benefits to make things easier for groups only alienates new players and doesn't help anything.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 20, 2014, 11:09:52 pm
Hint hint, i'm not DHR.Mike ;) But yes, you formulated the problem very clearly. We can build upon the basic idea that i posted earlier. What should be extended and improved upon that?

Providing we have 'buy in' from the leadership/management - the next steps will be to suggest methods of introducing cash into the economy that is evenly spread across different tiers of players. We need to avoid being a in predicament similar to RS4 where inflation was too high and cash was meaningless. We need to spur short term growth and ensure that proper cash is reaching individuals who are capable of retaining and attracting talent both internally and externally - this is not favoritism, it is about realising and capitalising on our strengths. We need to put aside the egos of both the leadership/management/players too because ultimately we have one objective, which is to ensure the prosperity of our community.

We need to leverage on our strong points as a community and stop focusing on our weaknesses.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: stormeus on October 20, 2014, 11:20:26 pm
the next steps will be to suggest methods of introducing cash into the economy that is evenly spread across different tiers of players

Define "tiers" before this becomes a rehashed "'official' groups v. everyone else" idea. Also:

Quote
We need to spur short term growth and ensure that proper cash is reaching individuals who are capable of retaining and attracting talent both internally and externally - this is not favoritism, it is about realising and capitalising on our strengths.

How do you suggest we find these individuals and define talent? How will we incentivize such players? Until a basic idea for how that would work is at least brought up to be refined, the idea isn't much better than saying "money is broken, we should fix it."
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 21, 2014, 12:02:07 am
I give up.

There is no point continuing, especially since my posts are being deleted. Perhaps we should first address the issue of censoring others on the forum first before we move our attention to the server.

I'm through with this - good luck resolving the issue at hand.

Wake me up when Kojak or Gandalf is back.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Abraham on October 21, 2014, 12:05:00 am
We need to leverage on our strong points as a community and stop focusing on our weaknesses.
Our strongest point as a community is that we have members willing to spend several hours a day working with broken scripts and unfinished features to make their fortune, these are the people you need not neglect, these are the people who deserve functioning scripts, and if there were ever to be funds or support given to anyone, it should be to these people, no one else.

One of our weaknesses are uninspiring group leaders and community members who are unwilling to put in the hard work to earn their own money or encourage others to do it for them, and blame everyone but themselves.

I'm not rich, but I'm aware of why I am not rich, and I can guarantee you that if I was to truly dedicate my time to expanding my wealth, it would've expanded far beyond what it is now.

What 'we' need to focus on right now as a community is coming up with ideas on how to improve the server game mode, not inflating the economy.
Nor should we focus on coming up with hat tricks to disguise an economic stimulus.

The only stimulus I'd like to see in RS5 is the kind that comes through scripts being adapted to server activity levels rather than the wanted server activity, which is actively happening as time passes; we've seen it happening with the drug scripts and we're still seeing adjustments being made to compensate for the activity levels (which has increased highly these past months as well (guess why... hint: not because of economic stimulus)).
There's a state bank and there's paydays for those who actually play on the server, it's all the stimulus we need.

As far as this "What is Argonath?" bullshit that's been going on for f**king ages, Argonath's been defined as an RPG, get over it and stop trying to over-complicate it, let the game mode develop the server rather than forcing your own disgusting beliefs.

I have my own beliefs of how the server 'should' be and how I want it to function, the big difference here is that I don't try to shove it down your throat and guess what's happening?; My ideals and beliefs are slowly but steadily becoming reality (thank god).
I've desperately tried to stay out of this topic cause I have a tenacity for sounding aggressive and rude, I mean no ill will.

But I do have every right not to agree with this idea and share my opinions on it.
You may now continue plotting the inevitable destruction of the server.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 21, 2014, 12:11:08 am
How do you suggest we find these individuals and define talent? How will we incentivize such players? Until a basic idea for how that would work is at least brought up to be refined, the idea isn't much better than saying "money is broken, we should fix it."
Cherry pick them on a case by case basis, instead of creating arbitrary regulations to being eligible for getting money. Much like picking moderators and such.

While focus should be on individuals within groups (since a group of people can achieve more than one person), unaffiliated individuals should not be ignored in this selection if it ever came to it. JCstodds achieved a shitton because he had the funds to motivate people to join him in his crusade for insane roleplay, where otherwise they might not. Everyone knew that it's worth interacting with him in one way or another, either for the fun of it or just the money. Regardless of reasons, end result was more than obvious.

Now I'm not going to hold my breath for his reincarnation to be found easily, but there are still players out there who hold same ideals as he did, but who've maybe lost faith because people just don't want to roleplay, since it's not worth it maybe. So I'm with Frank on that one.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Kessu on October 21, 2014, 12:41:58 am
While focus should be on individuals within groups (since a group of people can achieve more than one person)
Depends of the situation.



The moment you say it isn't worth to roleplay on a roleplay server, you're there for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 21, 2014, 01:04:54 am
The moment you say it isn't worth to roleplay on a roleplay server, you're there for the wrong reasons.
And while I would love for that to be a widespread truth around here, practice proves the opposite.

We can either keep telling people to get lost until we are left with the few that do believe in that, or adjust the strategy and encourage RP with other means. And if those who do believe in that truth have a good, long think about it, at the end of the day you're giving meaningless bits of data and pixels in return for more people having fun. Put those two on scales, have a good think about what the goals here are, and depending on what you decide, see which way the scales tip. Will also put an end to this discussion once and for all.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Axison on October 21, 2014, 02:29:26 pm
Do we have to create a realistic economy in an unrealistic game?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Stivi on October 21, 2014, 03:23:14 pm
HQ, please think. You don't give a damn about player count, but you should, as much as the rest of us does. If we're one, we should think as one and care as one.

I was a new player in rs5 and now i dont feel like playing anymore... Most people feel/felt the same. The player count is increasing,and I'll give few reasons why I think it is:

Trucking script. Gave short term ways to make cash and I had fun for as long as it lasted.. People raging for trailers being lost, people laughing at trailers stuck in tunnels and poor guys trying to pish them back out, people laughing at people calling argonah names, etc. It was a good time, but now script is fucked up.

A certain active group provoking gang wars and brawls with another inactive group, and so dragging this group in game to fight back. Two groups fighting brought more cops and so player interactivity increased. Think about it.

Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Murt on October 21, 2014, 04:16:25 pm
Not really. The active groups are in-game working their way up, not on the forum begging for random things.

Most Active Groups This Month
SAA 6774 minutes
CIA 2945 minutes
Kolta 2772 minutes
Sforza 2346 minutes
RockStar 1338 minutes

The group activity is bugged hugely. Svensson, NBA, Corleone and Luciano are not listed there, yet I've looked up my personal activity together with Lustig's. I've counted it to 10922 minutes solely and that is more than all those groups listed there. If we'd take bigger and active groups by numbers, NBA or Luciano would top that list with 3-5x more activity.

Sorry lad, just gotta contradict this, even if it's two days after your post.



As of group support I'm satisfied what we have got from HQ. A recognised status, four group vehicles and an HQ, that suffices.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Mikal on October 21, 2014, 09:56:13 pm
Perhaps we should first address the issue of censoring others on the forum first before we move our attention to the server.
I 100% agree as someone put under permanent moderation, I was given a final chance in SA:MP Argonath, but not on the petty forums, it makes so much sense.

Wake me up when Kojak or Gandalf is back.
You're going to be sleeping for a very long time then.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 22, 2014, 03:02:29 am
I give up.

There is no point continuing, especially since my posts are being deleted. Perhaps we should first address the issue of censoring others on the forum first before we move our attention to the server.

I'm through with this - good luck resolving the issue at hand.

Wake me up when Kojak or Gandalf is back.
Bro you gotta realize, that you(we) are expecting something from people who are completely incapable for the things we expect to happen. Even for the basic things. Its not their fault, you can't blame someone for lack of knowledge, experience, any sense of creativity, organization, logical conclusions or thinking outside of the box, and taking responsibility.

They are like bots, here to strictly follow what they were told long time ago, in a completely different server in a completely different situation, so tomorrow their ass wont be raped cause they did it somehow otherwise. And it doesn't matter that five year old kids see that everything went to hell, that those 'guides' and actions are way outdated and does not apply to the situation in the server anymore(on a contrary they are making completely counter-effects), that day by day those decisions are making the server more and more dead. They see and know that very well. They also know, just like you and me know, that if Gandalf is around, he would do a massive change in all of that, cause a dead server means nothing to no one and has no point, but until he comes back and announce it first, they're still bots running on outdated instruction.

There's also some complex issues and ego problems around here, some people are ready to sacrifice the server's existence cause of it,  but thats a whole new story, which isn't the time nor place to talk about.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pandalink on October 22, 2014, 09:56:22 am
You should already be happy that we are giving out HQ and free vehicles. Instead you just want more and more.
That's not the way it works.
Why not?
Just getting those things took seven years.
Surely you can see why people still want more.

Do we have to create a realistic economy in an unrealistic game?
The economy is not realistic, a real economy has inflation.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 22, 2014, 10:37:12 am
Bro you gotta realize, that you(we) are expecting something from people who are completely incapable for the things we expect to happen. Even for the basic things. Its not their fault, you can't blame someone for lack of knowledge, experience, any sense of creativity, organization, logical conclusions or thinking outside of the box, and taking responsibility.

They are like bots, here to strictly follow what they were told long time ago, in a completely different server in a completely different situation, so tomorrow their ass wont be raped cause they did it somehow otherwise. And it doesn't matter that five year old kids see that everything went to hell, that those 'guides' and actions are way outdated and does not apply to the situation in the server anymore(on a contrary they are making completely counter-effects), that day by day those decisions are making the server more and more dead. They see and know that very well. They also know, just like you and me know, that if Gandalf is around, he would do a massive change in all of that, cause a dead server means nothing to no one and has no point, but until he comes back and announce it first, they're still bots running on outdated instruction.

There's also some complex issues and ego problems around here, some people are ready to sacrifice the server's existence cause of it,  but thats a whole new story, which isn't the time nor place to talk about.


As usual, still full of yourself.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: stormeus on October 22, 2014, 10:40:57 am
The economy is not realistic, a real economy has inflation.

You heard it here first, guys: RS4 had the most realistic SA:MP economy of all time. :rolleyes:

There is no point continuing, especially since my posts are being deleted. Perhaps we should first address the issue of censoring others on the forum first before we move our attention to the server.

I saw your Part II thread get merged into this thread but I don't remember (or see) anything being deleted outright. I will say, though, that HQ does seem to have a serious problem with any pessimistic or negative views about the server being dismissed as "shitting" and handling the situation by banning anyone that does so.

you(we) are expecting something from people who are completely incapable for the things we expect to happen
Quote
you can't blame someone for lack of knowledge, experience, any sense of creativity, organization, logical conclusions or thinking outside of the box, and taking responsibility
Quote
There's also some complex issues and ego problems around here,

The irony here is just fantastic. I thought for sure you were satirizing your own point.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 22, 2014, 10:56:04 am
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=108528
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Devin on October 22, 2014, 11:24:34 am
I saw your Part II thread get merged into this thread but I don't remember (or see) anything being deleted outright. I will say, though, that HQ does seem to have a serious problem with any pessimistic or negative views about the server being dismissed as "shitting" and handling the situation by banning anyone that does so.

The only post that a webmaster removed was one by Frank asking them to lock the topic, then the two topics were merged.
HQ has an issue with those that don't even spend their time here but still insist on spreading their "views" on things by trying to say we don't care, we don't help and we don't give a damn about the server.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Cofiliano on October 22, 2014, 12:05:21 pm


As usual, still full of yourself.
Sure sure, you and your colleagues prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pandalink on October 22, 2014, 01:02:46 pm
You heard it here first, guys: RS4 had the most realistic SA:MP economy of all time. :rolleyes:
Who said anything about RS4?
I was just pointing out that to simulate an economy correctly, there should be some amount of money creation over time.

This is regulated and money can only be printed by the government, unless maybe a criminal organisation gets there hands on a way to make counterfeit notes. That could be cool.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Pingster on October 22, 2014, 04:35:41 pm
I don't know what the HQ thinks they appear like to the rest of the community, but you can't blame us for making the assumptions we make. Take a step back, look at the situation how it appears to us, then tell us we're full of ourselves.

I don't know what kind of state secrets you're trying to hide by not revealing anything, but telling white lies and deflecting questions doesn't get anyone anywhere. Honesty is the best policy they say.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Teddy on October 22, 2014, 09:42:54 pm
I've seen more productive discussions take place between preschoolers (2-4yrs). Nice work.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Frank_Hawk on October 22, 2014, 09:44:53 pm
Lock the topic please.
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Petarda on October 22, 2014, 09:45:55 pm
I've seen more productive discussions take place between preschoolers (2-4yrs). Nice work.
lol who the fuck listens to little kids discussing something
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: Teddy on October 22, 2014, 09:51:15 pm
lol who the f**k listens to little kids discussing something

People who work at a preschool?
Title: Re: Criminal / family group support
Post by: stormeus on October 22, 2014, 09:53:22 pm
Who said anything about RS4?
I was just pointing out that to simulate an economy correctly, there should be some amount of money creation over time.
Was a joke; inflation at the end of RS4's run was spectacularly high.

Quote
This is regulated and money can only be printed by the government, unless maybe a criminal organisation gets there hands on a way to make counterfeit notes. That could be cool.
There was a similar idea for VC:MP that was postponed because of its complexity. It would be pretty neat to have this implemented here though.
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