Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Teddy on April 22, 2016, 04:08:19 pm

Title: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 22, 2016, 04:08:19 pm
Hello,

I have heard so many of you sit and complain repeatedly things like "Cops don't roleplay" and "FBI can't roleplay" yet as I observe you and their interactions I frequently see you, the criminals, abusing our rules to kill any opportunity to roleplay. For example, Grandpa just the other day abused the system intentionally by saying it was a different character. So many of you also intentionally die just to avoid any follow up.

You cannot bitch about a lack of roleplay when you contribute to the problem by actively seeking ways to discourage roleplay. I am not sure yet how to rephrase the rules to avoid abuse since some of you shits are obviously abusing them... but don't worry I will find a way and put a stop to it.

Kindly,
Teddy
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Huntsman on April 22, 2016, 04:19:11 pm
Nothing new really. Always been the same. Not saying all, but most criminals hardly ever roleplay. They only bitch and moan about us not roleplaying then it's convenient for them, but when it's not, they'll avoid any interaction attempt. A situation that happened a few days ago: I foot-chase a weed grower all over the back - o -beyond to Angel Pine on foot. We have a roleplay'ish shootout between me and the guy. Now he most likely either CB'ed or PM'ed his pal's, and a car full of armed to teeth criminals park near the suspect. Just in time backup arrives and I fire a few warning shots for the guys in the car to retreat. They immediately exit and all of them start blasting at us. Now the funny thing is, after the situation is over, one of the aiders has the nerve to report me to an admin for deathmatching and complain in my PM about "not roleplaying", when he comes armed to teeth and decides to ruin our RP by randomly aiding. And this is only one example out of hundreds.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 22, 2016, 04:53:07 pm
Indeed, it happens on daily basis and it's impossible to interact properly. Very good points brought up there.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Devin on April 22, 2016, 05:22:44 pm
It almost seems like we need to publicly name and shame those that insist on twisting the term roleplay to suit their needs as they deem necessary even if that means ruining others roleplay like in the given example.

It's not all about winning, it's about the player interaction. If you can't see past the factor of greed and not wanting to "lose" you are clearly on the wrong kind of server.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 22, 2016, 05:25:54 pm
i'd really like to know whats going on
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: jovanca on April 22, 2016, 05:56:14 pm
I have to disagree with some things said above. Criminals label cops as dmers, cops do same for criminals. There is a group of people within law enforcing groups that i always enjoy roleplaying with. That includes most of swat and several individuals within sapd. Yet same way there is a group of criminals that i know will always roleplay and be realistic. People are prejudice and assume the worst as soon as they are being approach. This applies to both sides.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Julio. on April 22, 2016, 06:03:02 pm
I have to disagree with some things said above. Criminals label cops as dmers, cops do same for criminals. There is a group of people within law enforcing groups that i always enjoy roleplaying with. That includes most of swat and several individuals within sapd. Yet same way there is a group of criminals that i know will always roleplay and be realistic. People are prejudice and assume the worst as soon as they are being approach. This applies to both sides.

This.

For lack of a further useful comment from me, this is essentially cops and criminals:  :balance:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: eymas on April 22, 2016, 06:13:17 pm
And how did that happen. Because it has occurred for years. The change has to come from the people.
Think about talking to yourself instead of the other guy, since it's all based on giving and taking.

You give little, you get little. You shoot, you get shot. You insult someone, you get insulted.
Obviously, you wouldn't like it. So why succumb and do it anyway?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 22, 2016, 06:42:07 pm
I might call out people by names in this post, but I don't think anyone named will be seen in a bad light, because everyone did their job;

I think people see every roleplay as a scenario that has a start and an end, and don't see their character as a role they are playing, for example back when I was in Sforza, I for shits and giggles spied on Tony and reported him selling weed and such to the PD (it was a special division whose name I can't remember) but we all handled it roleplayingly, when @TonySforza found out, I was driven to the middle of the ocean and shot off a boat, hell, half of the people who were there to shoot me didn't know why I was shot, because it was all a roleplay.

You know what happened afterwards? What should have, that character is dead, JackSforza is at the bottom of the ocean, so I changed my name, changed my persona, changed everything to "IsabellaSforza". It was done in a proper roleplay way because actions have consequences. I remember not being able to sell weed to Tony in Blaze because he was being spied on by the FBI. Everything should be roleplayed to it's fullest potential.

For example two days ago, I had one of the greatest roleplays ever with the Sopranos that ended with everyone having bad taste in their mouth because it wasn't given it's full potential.

I was running to Angel Pine and saw two people harvesting weed, so I took out my camera and snapped some photos, I called @Arslan and handed him the cartridge of the camera, as I was giving the cartridge I got called on the phone to missionary hill where we had a great roleplay of them trying to cut my tongue off, than we decided that I will be given money if I tell the FBI it was all a joke, so we drove to the FBI agent Mircea Niko but the roleplay didn't go their way because as soon as I approached him I told him that they were trying to kill and mutulate me, than I got killed which is perfectly normal, there was a shootout and the next day I get information that the criminals staged the roleplay so that Mario died.

But that took out half the roleplay, now FBI has nothing to investigate. One of the most fun I've ever had was with the FBI because they act like professionals, it baffles me that someone would willingly stage it so that they would get away from such an experience.

But again, THIS, all of it, the whole thing didn't break any rule and nothing bad happened, everything was done with great roleplay, everyone had tonnes of fun! I can't stress this enough, Mario and his whole crew did the mob thing ASTONISHINGLY WELL! But it .. ended.. why did it have to end?

I understand what you are saying Teddy, I don't think many people will, I don't think any rule should be changed to accommodate it, the players themselves have to figure it out.


i'd really like to know whats going on
Imagine this:
You rob a bank.
You were pictured from every angle, let's say they have your name, the FBI starts following you, taking pictures of you.
And instead of roleplaying back you stage it so that you ICly have died.
You gypped the cops out of roleplay.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 22, 2016, 09:12:44 pm
You rob a bank.
You were pictured from every angle, let's say they have your name, the FBI starts following you, taking pictures of you.
And instead of roleplaying back you stage it so that you ICly have died.
You gypped the cops out of roleplay.

This. Happens far too frequently and an end with it will be reached one way or another. If it be by choice for change or by force. We will create an environment where roleplay is available in every acceptable avenue. Those who think they're smarter than the system because they can bend it to their will are going to get fucked by that very system in a matter of time.

As Devin continues to reiterate... there is no "winning" here. You don't need to "win" every roleplay. You don't always need to have the high ground. So hop off the ego train and start making this a place fair for everyone or quite simply leave. 
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Jcstodds on April 23, 2016, 12:58:55 am
The best cop/criminal roleplays I found were the ones where everyone comes away from them feeling like they got a good deal and an enjoyable experience.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: jovanca on April 23, 2016, 03:17:51 am
Roleplay itself should be considered the 'win' by the players, not the outcome of it.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Heller on April 23, 2016, 11:50:40 am
Roleplay itself should be considered the 'win' by the players, not the outcome of it.
the main problem is materialism.
We need more civilians, the actual persons representing some sort of professional organization.. eg Business of any legal kind or officials and not any criminal syndicate or a law enforcement group ;) But unfortunately such type of people are too few in number. And currently this server is filled with cops and criminals[representative](i maybe wrong) and so, it is common to see conflicts between both the parties. Trolls not included xD
Also, We all are born with some sort of ego and because of that we have it in our genes to dominate any situation possible... however, this case may be different for those who wish to enjoy this life/game or admins with greater purpose/responsibilities and a few exceptional player also comes under this list. A Script can never solve this problem, its psychology.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 23, 2016, 12:16:24 pm
Lets be honest here it goes both ways. There are law enforcement individuals who are fabulous role players who we criminals enjoy RPing with but there are those who can't handle a loss in RP so they do everything in thier power to win. SAPD on a whole actually role plays and you see it, I mean there are a few instances here and there where a few individuals screw up from time to time but that doesn't reflect on the whole group. I believe you guys are missing the point when people say cops don't role play and FBI can't role play. There is a culture where cops just goes around doing /su ---> /mdc ---> /area ---> /m1 ---> /m3 ---> Shoot. We get it that not all cops are the same and not all cops do that but the number that does it is quite large hence the generalization which may or may not be fair. And to be totaly honest with you I still stand by the statement FBI can't roleplay. They most times they don't even do anything which is FBI related. They simply go around meta gaming 24/7 in order to win at thier scenario they get themselves involved in, They follow blips, They deathmatch criminals (there's a difference between shooting a criminals car to disable and spraying a car with M4 until its blown), They try to RP what is convenient to them, Whenever someone tries to RP a kidnaping or something they just take the victim and go camp behind the gate or doors inside, The list goes on. So if I beat them at thier own game by doing something what was convenient to me at the time I don't see anything wrong with it. But hey who am I to judge ?, I'm just a DMing cuntbag.



This. Happens far too frequently and an end with it will be reached one way or another. If it be by choice for change or by force. We will create an environment where roleplay is available in every acceptable avenue. Those who think they're smarter than the system because they can bend it to their will are going to get fucked by that very system in a matter of time.

As Devin continues to reiterate... there is no "winning" here. You don't need to "win" every roleplay. You don't always need to have the high ground. So hop off the ego train and start making this a place fair for everyone or quite simply leave. 

To be fair I agree with the whole concept of the no winning, and these situations happen far too often however, there is a player mindset and then there are those who comes with the IRL comparisons which at times are often unfairly compared. We need to find ways to curb these flaws.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 23, 2016, 05:31:37 pm
And to be totaly honest with you I still stand by the statement FBI can't roleplay.

and you have no credibility to make such an assessment when you actively and knowingly trashed a legitimate attempt to roleplay. You are a big part of the very problem outlined. I respect you but you need to help set a standard of quality, not of abuse.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Julio. on April 23, 2016, 08:47:55 pm
/area is too vague to be useful, we only see "Los Santos", "Red County" etc... no exacts. But that's beside the point of this topic.

I'd say quite happily that most people here have got the capacity for some decent level of RP. The thing is, people have to expect bad RP from both sides so don't go into a situation expecting it. For example, Leonardo in the FBI has been doing some fantastic roleplay work in an investigation with a couple of SAPD recruits. So even two of they key groups that people have said can't roleplay, immediately I can debunk that myth as false. I know for sure criminals roleplay, take our friends over at Grove Street as an absolute prime example, we regularly get situations over there, with fairly few actual shootouts occuring.

Both "sides" provoke one another, but as mentioned in another thread, if both parties can come out of the roleplay feeling good about it, without the impression one always "wins", then we're getting somewhere. The ultimate punishment for suspected people shouldn't always be jail, and a police officer going to a suspect shouldn't always be a suspect. We need both sides to make it so though, so stick your necks out guys and let's see a little more roleplay, and a little less moaning about it on the forums!  :D
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Huntsman on April 24, 2016, 01:51:35 pm
I see several possible solutions for the issue discussed here. Since some people seem to be very fond of abusing the piece of crappy text called "Argonath Vision" to decide to suddenly switch character so no crime can be linked to them after the fact, perhaps it's time we introduce stricter rules on things such as death? A character kill thing? We're already heading to heavy roleplay direction anyways. The thing is that if a player would suddenly choose to die to have his FBI or court case dropped and roleplay a character death, he'd also have to change name, leave the group and never make any interaction with it again. In other words - he'd have to roleplay and entirely new person. He'd also have to agree to have his assets removed since, you know.. His character is gone. That way people would think twice before roleplaying at others expense, yet stripping off the other party of roleplay to avoid having to pay consequences for their actions.. Now what happens is that they find out they're being traced (which is too easy since most people know who the FBI members are and they can see the blip miles away), they intentionally get involved into a roleplay where they die with the FBI present, and that way abuse the system.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Stivi on April 24, 2016, 02:00:19 pm
I see several possible solutions for the issue discussed here. Since some people seem to be very fond of abusing the piece of crappy text called "Argonath Vision" to decide to suddenly switch character so no crime can be linked to them after the fact, perhaps it's time we introduce stricter rules on things such as death? A character kill thing? We're already heading to heavy roleplay direction anyways.
Stopped reading right there. Guess why?

I RP with two characters, one is a certified lawyer and one is part of the Gvardia Syndicate. How do you suggest I do something like this? I've never had to use the Argonath Vision for such things. I didn't even read that shit, tl;dr.

Also, I've taken a completely different skin, a different vehicle while being a suspect and iKhm tried to arrest me, yet I explained I wasn't the guy he was looking for ( dots were white at that time I think ) and he simply moved on. It really depends on who you're trying to RP with and how much effort they put into it. I know for a fact FBI wouldn't do this. And CK has always been a thing, have you seen 58th Conecta? It just needs to be agreed by both parties.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Huntsman on April 24, 2016, 02:02:01 pm
Stopped reading right there. Guess why?

I RP with two characters, one is a certified lawyer and one is part of the Gvardia Syndicate. How do you suggest I do something like this? I've never had to use the Argonath Vision for such things. I didn't even read that shit, tl;dr.

Also, I've taken a completely different skin, a different vehicle while being a suspect and iKhm tried to arrest me, yet I explained I wasn't the guy he was looking for ( dots were white at that time I think ) and he simply moved on. It really depends on who you're trying to RP with and how much effort they put into it. I know for a fact FBI wouldn't do this. And CK has always been a thing, have you seen 58th Conecta? It just needs to be agreed by both parties.

Then I guess along with the CK rules Argonath would need to bring support for multiple characters at once that can be linked to one account?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 02:09:12 pm
We're already heading to heavy roleplay direction anyways.

Not even close.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Fuzzy on April 24, 2016, 02:14:32 pm
Not even close.
Couldn't be more right. RP can be as "heavy" as you want to make it yourself, but Argonath will never be a heavy roleplay server as you call it. Just won't happen.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ben. on April 24, 2016, 02:17:26 pm
In agreement with Stivi, here. Sorry Max. It's too easy to move things out of context, such as with "crim returned as different character".

I'd like to be able to roleplay different characters, because I enjoy that. That's not unique to me, a lot of us do it.
If a character of mine came under the investigation of the FBI, I would roll with it.
...
I'd roll with it because it's fun. But if I'm RPing a different character at a particular point, I won't just stop mid-RP. This shouldn't even be an issue, because the FBI would need to confirm my identity before they did anything. I identify myself as whoever I choose to be. Of course I'll kick off an RP with the FBI at some point, but that will be mutually agreed via PM or /em, not forced down my throat.
Similarly, I wouldn't force any particular RP on another person. I would, however, expect some kind of RP from whoever they were playing.

Following so far? Excellent.

Now as for criminals coming back "as a different character" into what is blatantly the same violent situation, that's entirely different. That's a server rule saying they can't return after death, created to discourage DM fests in the server.



The problem is, the whole point is about having some fun, and making sure the person you RP with has some fun too. I understand some people abuse the privileges we have over heavy-RP servers, but by introducing additional rules such as enforcing a character change on death, we lose some of the choices we currently get to make.

In this respect, people say the Argonath Vision is flawed. Yes, it is flawed, but only because we as individuals sometimes get greedy and forget about other people. Focus on everyone in an RP, not just yourself, and you'll soon start seeing the benefits.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 24, 2016, 02:23:22 pm
Just to clear the air on what actually happened in the situation Teddy refered to me. Technically I didnt abuse the system to my conveniece its just that FBI decided to try a cheapshot into getting me into trouble so I decided to be a dick to them. I went to there HQ as a Mexican Mechanic trying to RP with them asking if they needed someone to service their vehicles, they invited me into their garage and then totally ignored the RP and randomly pulled out guns on me saying they have a warrent for my Arrest. How on God's green earth do they know its Grandpa Corleone without using the Name Tag above my head, So I just continued my RP as a Mexican Mechanic Searching for work. Its funny tho, The reason the topic is prolly posted is cause of people Moaning.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TonySforza on April 24, 2016, 02:28:16 pm
Last time I RPed with the FBI I enjoyed it for weeks up to the point where I got sued with the demands of removing all my money and all my properties (aka account reset lel), luckily Shaun was the judge at the time and he was sensitive enough to completely ignore that stupid court case.
Maybe people remember that and are affraid of something similar? No one wants to be fucked in the ass raw.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 02:28:53 pm
For example, Grandpa just the other day abused the system intentionally by saying it was a different character. So many of you also intentionally die just to avoid any follow up.

Just saying, I've actually heard about this story and it's just bollocks. If he is roleplaying a different character with a scripted job and entire new skin, you MUST respect it and go along with it and wait for him to get back to his actual character. Not everyone has two over-powered characters like yourself so we try to get by with what we have. He wasn't abusing the system in any way because there is absolutely no rule that disallows players to have different characters.

You cannot bad girl about a lack of roleplay when you contribute to the problem by actively seeking ways to discourage roleplay. I am not sure yet how to rephrase the rules to avoid abuse since some of you shits are obviously abusing them... but don't worry I will find a way and put a stop to it.

This needs to be said for both sides because for the last 8 years I've spent on this community I've experienced every side and almost every possible this community allows. It depends on the players involved in the roleplay, some are capable of having a normal-heavy roleplay and some are just shitbags who consider themselves as god damn gods due to their power within a group. Having power within a group is fine, acting like a tough mf is also fine, but acting like you own everyone and the roleplay must go as how you please, is just nonsense and bullshit.

I have to disagree with some things said above. Criminals label cops as dmers, cops do same for criminals. There is a group of people within law enforcing groups that i always enjoy roleplaying with. That includes most of swat and several individuals within sapd. Yet same way there is a group of criminals that i know will always roleplay and be realistic. People are prejudice and assume the worst as soon as they are being approach. This applies to both sides.

Lets be honest here it goes both ways. There are law enforcement individuals who are fabulous role players who we criminals enjoy RPing with but there are those who can't handle a loss in RP so they do everything in thier power to win. SAPD on a whole actually role plays and you see it, I mean there are a few instances here and there where a few individuals screw up from time to time but that doesn't reflect on the whole group.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 02:58:52 pm
Hey, next time you decide to report a Law Enforcement officer, he can just say "Oh that was my other character that's corrupt, now I'm on my second one.". Good luck proving who it was and trying to get him punished, especially if he roleplays removing nametag from his uniform, puts a mask on and doesn't use a name anywhere during the situation. But then again, none of you ever bother reporting anybody merely because you consider every Law Enforcement agency and its members incompetent, stupid and useless. Simply because we're not here to serve you (the criminals) and do as you please, we are immediately considered enemies. And then when time and chance comes, something that involves those Law Enforcement agencies, people shit at its members and say how they're abused all the time and nothing is done about it. Perhaps if some of you leaders of them "we been here forever" mafias shit ego out of your ass and become a proper leader of your group, role model for your members and quit the toxic attitude towards Law Enforcement agencies, we may have a better environment to play with without starting to grow grey hair at age of 30. The only reason it happens and specifically in Argonath is because the server is basically a TDM, criminals vs cops. The middle class is so small and stretched that it's not even noticeable. I know only a handful of people who are neither cops nor criminals. And then the mainstream Argonath groups, specifically their leaders, that think they own this community, think the server depends on them, use "we been here forever" to promote their groups, and be proud, create an unplayable environment for others in other groups, specifically Law Enforcement, just because their ego doesn't allow them to lose a situation, end up in jail, in court or end in any similar situation. That's the damn issue. And I'll tell you why it's unplayable for us in Law Enforcement, we have books of regulations, rules and things to watch while we play, in FBI, record every second of gameplay, worry that you do proper roleplay to enable the recording devices, worry that you mention certain things to avoid making 5 hours of work invalid because someone jumps off a cliff, do CSI roleplay when possible to build a case based upon it, spend hours writing up cases and uploading all the evidence, hours questioning victims, witnesses and all just to serve justice to few guilty individuals, who don't need any roleplay skill at all to do /me wears a mask, can jump off a cliff at any moment and set all your hours of work invalid, shoot at you and force you to kill them to as well set all your hours of work invalid, abuse the rules as this topic is here for to avoid any consequences for your actions in court, and by all means possible be a complete dick to us and make our job harder by continuously moaning about whatever we do, we can literally be parked at HQ and people will shit at us for not doing anything. It does fucking piss you off after tolerating it for months and having to face it daily, and I know some of you will come and say shit like "it's your job", well it's not my job to deal with bunch of egoistic individuals and deal with their daily dose of provocations just to do what I want to do. It's not my job to deal with those individuals that try all ways possible avoid any sort of interaction, try all ways to bend the rules, find ways by them and cheat however they know to avoid us. And if we by some chance and a bit of luck get our hands onto them, get more moans thrown at our face for doing our job successfully at the end. That's what's the major issue is, constant verbal assault against us doing this job and impossibility to satisfy merely because our tasks differ. And people take it so personal, instead of playing it as a game, they turn every issue so personal and keep on dragging it along with themselves, bringing it up months after it happened and compare past and future generations based on outdated issues and events that have no relevance to how the situation is today. If you could for a second just appreciate our choice and will to do these jobs, all the things we have to keep in mind while doing it, all the roleplay and paperwork we have to do while all you bunch have to do is one line of /me to neglect our work completely, that'd be great.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 03:16:30 pm
Ahxjxjd

Hey, no one forces you to be a cop.

Use some structure next time. This is annoying.

Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 03:21:24 pm
I know some of you will come and say shit like "it's your job", well it's not my job to deal with bunch of egoistic individuals and deal with their daily dose of provocations just to do what I want to do. It's not my job to deal with those individuals that try all ways possible avoid any sort of interaction, try all ways to bend the rules, find ways by them and cheat however they know to avoid us. And if we by some chance and a bit of luck get our hands onto them, get more moans thrown at our face for doing our job successfully at the end.
Should read next time before posting something that's already mentioned in original post.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mikal on April 24, 2016, 03:21:54 pm
Maybe people remember that and are affraid of something similar? No one wants to be fucked in the ass raw.
Have to agree there, the thought of being sued out of everything by law enforcement just because of your RP character is a bit daunting, not that I have much to lose... :rolleyes:

You have to be careful with all the ass cameras, micro-cameras, button cameras, invisible cameras, google glass cameras, general glasses cameras, fucking cameras fucking everywhere these days! If only people would remember that GTA SA is based in the 1980's, a time when computers were still big ugly grey blocks and your average television took 2 people to lift...
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 03:26:32 pm
All the things you listed are neglected by a simple thing - death.
I'd really love a role swap event to prove how hard it would be for all you tough gangsters and world rulers to try and get a court valid case on us.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 03:31:20 pm
Hey, next time you decide to report a Law Enforcement officer, he can just say "Oh that was my other character that's corrupt, now I'm on my second one.". Good luck proving who it was and trying to get him punished, especially if he roleplays removing nametag from his uniform, puts a mask on and doesn't use a name anywhere during the situation. But then again, none of you ever bother reporting anybody merely because you consider every Law Enforcement agency and its members incompetent, stupid and useless. Simply because we're not here to serve you (the criminals) and do as you please, we are immediately considered enemies. And then when time and chance comes, something that involves those Law Enforcement agencies, people shit at its members and say how they're abused all the time and nothing is done about it. Perhaps if some of you leaders of them "we been here forever" mafias shit ego out of your ass and become a proper leader of your group, role model for your members and quit the toxic attitude towards Law Enforcement agencies, we may have a better environment to play with without starting to grow grey hair at age of 30. The only reason it happens and specifically in Argonath is because the server is basically a TDM, criminals vs cops. The middle class is so small and stretched that it's not even noticeable. I know only a handful of people who are neither cops nor criminals. And then the mainstream Argonath groups, specifically their leaders, that think they own this community, think the server depends on them, use "we been here forever" to promote their groups, and be proud, create an unplayable environment for others in other groups, specifically Law Enforcement, just because their ego doesn't allow them to lose a situation, end up in jail, in court or end in any similar situation. That's the damn issue. And I'll tell you why it's unplayable for us in Law Enforcement, we have books of regulations, rules and things to watch while we play, in FBI, record every second of gameplay, worry that you do proper roleplay to enable the recording devices, worry that you mention certain things to avoid making 5 hours of work invalid because someone jumps off a cliff, do CSI roleplay when possible to build a case based upon it, spend hours writing up cases and uploading all the evidence, hours questioning victims, witnesses and all just to serve justice to few guilty individuals, who don't need any roleplay skill at all to do /me wears a mask, can jump off a cliff at any moment and set all your hours of work invalid, shoot at you and force you to kill them to as well set all your hours of work invalid, abuse the rules as this topic is here for to avoid any consequences for your actions in court, and by all means possible be a complete dick to us and make our job harder by continuously moaning about whatever we do, we can literally be parked at HQ and people will shit at us for not doing anything. It does f**cking piss you off after tolerating it for months and having to face it daily, and I know some of you will come and say shit like "it's your job", well it's not my job to deal with bunch of egoistic individuals and deal with their daily dose of provocations just to do what I want to do. It's not my job to deal with those individuals that try all ways possible avoid any sort of interaction, try all ways to bend the rules, find ways by them and cheat however they know to avoid us. And if we by some chance and a bit of luck get our hands onto them, get more moans thrown at our face for doing our job successfully at the end. That's what's the major issue is, constant verbal assault against us doing this job and impossibility to satisfy merely because our tasks differ. And people take it so personal, instead of playing it as a game, they turn every issue so personal and keep on dragging it along with themselves, bringing it up months after it happened and compare past and future generations based on outdated issues and events that have no relevance to how the situation is today. If you could for a second just appreciate our choice and will to do these jobs, all the things we have to keep in mind while doing it, all the roleplay and paperwork we have to do while all you bunch have to do is one line of /me to neglect our work completely, that'd be great.

Okay so, firstly, criminals hate cops and vice versa, that's how it was, that's how it is and that's how it will be. Nature wanted it to be that way and so it will be. Second of all, tell us where it really hurts. Thirdly, putting some bloody paragraphs in between won't kill you, although it might kill us because you've almost put us in a mental institution.

If you do not like the constant provocations that the FBI has always gotten from the other side, don't be it. There is absolutely NOTHING that can be done about it, you can't change it and nor can we. If a cop wants to be corrupted, so be it, let him be so, investigate him RPly, if you catch him, kudos - you go and jail him.

And FYI, I know who's in the middle class and who's not, I've been in the middle class and just due to my reputation, you people forced me out of the class into the criminal one. And yes, we know how hard it is for you about the paperwork and whatnot, we respect you for it but its the roleplay that you bring to us, at times we have to decline it. We don't always have to put up with what Law tell us and we fight it, we protect ourselves and our people, we help each other and we remain united in order to not let you take us into your custody.

If you are against us having free will in roleplay, than maybe you're not fit to be in FBI's leadership. That being said, NO ONE, and I mean absolutely NO ONE forces you to follow the regulations that are given to you. Server rules are server rules, regulations can be broken at any time and no one will give a flying fuck about it. Every Law Enforcement member that I've seen who's capable of actual hardcore roleplay has broken the regulations, because they're capable enough of making hard decisions and know what bollocks the regulations are.

I'm not sure if I missed anything due to hard reading your one stack paragraph, but if encounter something else I'll make sure to write it down.

All the things you listed are neglected by a simple thing - death.
I'd really love a role swap event to prove how hard it would be for all you tough gangsters and world rulers to try and get a court valid case on us.

Most of us have been on your side, including Grandpa and I. It's just that those who recruited us to corruption made us not take any important players. It isn't that hard to gather evidence about someone, no. You just need to know how to do it properly and without being caught. Maybe you're not gathering anything is because you don't know your own men that you've hired.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Spike. on April 24, 2016, 03:41:58 pm
regulations can be broken at any time and no one will give a flying fuck about it.

Yea man, you completely right.

@.Matthew.

Lets start deploying hunters and hydras on every suspect we see. No one is going to give a flying fuck about it.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 03:42:15 pm
Okay so, firstly, criminals hate cops and vice versa, that's how it was, that's how it is and that's how it will be. Nature wanted it to be that way and so it will be.
It doesn't have to be like that. If people didn't take things personally and hate members of vice versa groups because of their roleplay job, it wouldn't be like that. If someone does something to you in roleplay, you don't have to forever shit on that person in other situations out of that roleplay situation.

it might kill us
See, now I can be the typical Argonath badass and say "well it wouldn't have been a great loss if that happened."

If you do not like the constant provocations that the FBI has always gotten from the other side, don't be it.
As I already told Sweeper, it's what I and others in these groups want to do. And we shouldn't have to do something else just because people cannot leave their personal agendas aside, and keep things within limits - what happens in roleplay stays there and what doesn't - /report if offended instead of dragging it forever and always being sarcastic to those involved into it.

There is absolutely NOTHING that can be done about it, you can't change it and nor can we.

Quote
It doesn't have to be like that. If people didn't take things personally and hate members of vice versa groups because of their roleplay job, it wouldn't be like that. If someone does something to you in roleplay, you don't have to forever shit on that person in other situations out of that roleplay situation.

If a cop wants to be corrupted, so be it, let him be so, investigate him RPly, if you catch him, kudos - you go and jail him.
I specifically talked about you, civilians and criminals (not) reporting corrupt cops. You always moan how nothing is done about them, how you're always being abused and you're ignored, yet, barely anyone submits a proper report against them. And when chance comes, shitstorm against the Law Enforcing agencies.

If you are against us having free will in roleplay, than maybe you're not fit to be in FBI's leadership.
I wouldn't give shit if people always stayed within roleplay limits and didn't take things that happen in them roleplay situations personally. As I said multiple times now, the issue is that people take things that happen in a roleplay situation personally, and then drag them along, constantly being sarcastic / provocative to ones involved into it.

That being said, NO ONE, and I mean absolutely NO ONE forces you to follow the regulations that are given to you. Server rules are server rules, regulations can be broken at any time and no one will give a flying fuck about it. Every Law Enforcement member that I've seen who's capable of actual hardcore roleplay has broken the regulations, because they're capable enough of making hard decisions and know what bollocks the regulations are.
"No one will give a flying fuck about it" - well then don't moan about being abused and don't say the Law Enforcing organizations are incompetent and useless if you don't care. Oh no wait, you do care only when you're the one being abused, but don't care when it's you or your buddy abusing.



Yea man, you completely right.

@.Matthew.

Lets start deploying hunters and hydras on every suspect we see. No one is going to give a flying fuck about it.

Nope, they will throw a shitstorm at us then for doing that. Since we're not corrupt and we're not criminals, we're not allowed to do those things without being shit at.
On the other hand, if you're in a criminal family and you're corrupt then, then it's fine as you basically work for them. Simply need a _family tag in your name in order to pull such a stunt and not be shit at.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 03:50:31 pm
Yea man, you completely right.

@.Matthew.

Lets start deploying hunters and hydras on every suspect we see. No one is going to give a flying fuck about it.

You deploy whatever the hell you want fam, its your leadership that has a problem with it, not us.



To clear shit out, Matthew.. if we insult you during a roleplay, or engage in a fight, that is perfectly fine. However, no, taking it OOC and insulting the shit out of you is indeed wrong and hopefully it will be stopped. Second of all, I don't report corrupted officers is because I'm usually the one corrupting them, I ain't gonna report my own men. I have no problem with people being corrupt aslong as they do it in roleplay terms and try their very best not to get caught, be cautious. If you want to bend the rules a little, go ahead man, no one is stopping you, just don't get caught aye. HOWEVER, if you go around just damaging people's cars and assaulting everyone, and /su them when they fight back, that is what we possibly, not sure, but that's what we will probably dislike. Evidence is needed when reporting an officer and we never have any evidence, screenshots and "videos" are just bullshit and shouldn't be considered. We can report an officer via roleplay terms and its done several times a day, its up to IA to take care of it, not us.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 03:57:00 pm
To clear shit out, Matthew.. if we insult you during a roleplay, or engage in a fight, that is perfectly fine. However, no, taking it OOC and insulting the shit out of you is indeed wrong and hopefully it will be stopped.
Exactly, people should accept whatever happens in roleplay situation and accept the outcome of it. If it doesn't go the way they wanted it to go, let it be and move on to new situation. There's no need to keep it in heart and drag it along forever.

Evidence is needed when reporting an officer and we never have any evidence, screenshots and "videos" are just bullshit and shouldn't be considered. We can report an officer via roleplay terms and its done several times a day, its up to IA to take care of it, not us.
Also understandable, the amount of times I wish my computer supported shadowplay to record and report the ones that run into my lane just to ram me because I'm doing what I do (FBI) and not what that specific person wants me to do, server would be having 20 less people now.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Spike. on April 24, 2016, 03:58:20 pm
You deploy whatever the hell you want fam, its your leadership that has a problem with it, not us.


An example of how you talk out of your ass and have no idea about it. Roam the forums for a while there are dozens of topics moaning about hydras and hunters, even shamal deployments.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 24, 2016, 03:58:47 pm
Yea man, you completely right.

@.Matthew.

Lets start deploying hunters and hydras on every suspect we see. No one is going to give a flying fuck about it.

Oh well its not going to surprise me you guys already abuse with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJligTlbyyg&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 04:02:59 pm
An example of how you talk out of your ass and have no idea about it. Roam the forums for a while there are dozens of topics moaning about hydras and hunters, even shamal deployments.

So you're just mad because you're not allowed to use a hydra and a hunter whenever you want?  :lol:
And, do you actually consider shamal as a way to go after someone in order to make sure his rhl doesn't lower? You are a joke and you're possibly the reason many are against FBI. Get more cops to go around, use choppers, use actual vehicles that cops in-reality might consider using. And don't give me that bullcrap "this isn't real life".. we know it isn't, but its roleplay, meaning we try to do it similarly to real life. When I said bend the rules a little, I didn't mean like this nonsense, like get a criminal on your side and make him an informant. I have mad respect for Carter because he does try to do his job, but what the fuck are you trying to do.

EDIT: This is how I see it, if we go in the air with a shamal or any kind of plane, we're in the air and we're a risk to the society, so you are allowed to deploy a hydra. If we are in the ocean, deploy a hydra to circle around and locate us, then send choppers/boats to that location... if still cannot be done, deploy a hunter.

^ If it's that way, I don't know what anyone is moaning about. If it isn't, it should be.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 04:09:09 pm
Oh well its not going to surprise me you guys already abuse with it.
See what I'm saying? action of one and they blame the other 30.
Either way, what's shown on the video is not right and shouldn't have happened. And I'm also certain it wasn't done on purpose since it happens many times the escaped message is lost between other messages of radio / CB / GM spam.

So you're just mad because you're not allowed to use a hydra and a hunter whenever you want?  :lol:
He simply pointed out what you said that nobody gives a fuck if someone breaks regulations. It's obvious you do when it's you being abused, but don't when it's your friend the one abusing.
Double standard. Let others be abused as long as I am not.

And no, I don't support hydras and hunters being used like that.

And, do you actually consider shamal as a way to go after someone in order to make sure his rhl doesn't lower? You are a joke and you're possibly the reason many are against FBI. Get more cops to go around, use choppers, use actual vehicles that cops in-reality might consider using.
Wouldn't have to use a shamal if we had a proper drone script that works instead of pointlessly spamming the chat.
And besides that, it wouldn't have to be used if helicopter speed was realistic. Infernus max speed 240 and helicopter 200. It's none's fault (beside R*).

EDIT: This is how I see it, if we go in the air with a shamal or any kind of plane, we're in the air and we're a risk to the society, so you are allowed to deploy a hydra. If we are in the ocean, deploy a hydra to circle around and locate us, then send choppers/boats to that location... if still cannot be done, deploy a hunter.
Exactly, but issue with people on boat is that most of times they decide to shoot at the hunter or hydra, and that's why they get destroyed. Shooting at the hunter or hydra = death wish.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 04:13:18 pm
Exactly, but issue with people on boat is that most of times they decide to shoot at the hunter or hydra, and that's why they get destroyed. Shooting at the hunter or hydra = death wish.
You have predators which are equipped with dual M4s, and if we please could get rid of the silly rule and script that prevents us from shooting on top vehicles which are made for people to sit on/in(bobcat/yosemite/boats) it would do a lot more good.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 04:15:03 pm
That M4 doesn't aim at anything but the other boat itself, which if none is driving it won't lose health due to SA-MP. Thus meaning that the predator itself would be fucked in matter of seconds if there are two suspects shooting at it with desert eagle or M4 / AK47.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 04:17:43 pm
Exactly, but issue with people on boat is that most of times they decide to shoot at the hunter or hydra, and that's why they get destroyed. Shooting at the hunter or hydra = death wish.

If they shoot at a hunter/hydra, you have every right to fire back, I do not see a problem with that..

He simply pointed out what you said that nobody gives a fuck if someone breaks regulations. It's obvious you do when it's you being abused, but don't when it's your friend the one abusing.
Double standard. Let others be abused as long as I am not.

Nobody gives a fuck to breaking regulations meaning minor ones such as being corrupt, helping in the drug business, helping criminal do illegal acts and whatnot, not about using heavy vehicles for deathmatching and to use it for your own benefit.

EDIT:
That M4 doesn't aim at anything but the other boat itself, which if none is driving it won't lose health due to SA-MP. Thus meaning that the predator itself would be fucked in matter of seconds if there are two suspects shooting at it with desert eagle or M4 / AK47.

Do the exact same to them?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: taseen11 on April 24, 2016, 04:22:26 pm
You have predators which are equipped with dual M4s
And how exactly are predators supposed to keep up with Squallos or Jetmaxs?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 04:24:44 pm
Do the exact same to them?
Whatever happens, if you shoot at a hydra or hunter then you'll get done by its rockets.
If you shoot at the units on boat, then they'll return fire at you from that boat.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 04:24:59 pm
And how exactly are predators supposed to keep up with Squallos or Jetmaxs?

If they're in the sea, you should be allowed to deploy a hunter imo. If they shoot at you, fire back, if not, stick around and call for back up. If they don't want want a hunter after ass, they should go into the sea. I have no actual knowledge of what the exact rules are here, but that's how they should be, if they aren't, whoever made them isn't suppose to be in power of doing them.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 04:25:39 pm
Whatever happens, if you shoot at a hydra or hunter then you'll get done by its rockets.
If you shoot at the units on boat, then they'll return fire at you from that boat.

Yes. Exactly.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Huntsman on April 24, 2016, 04:26:17 pm
Speaking of the Hydra/hunter usage of the SAPD and FBI. I'd actually be in favor of removing the mentioned groups access to it and have them use a Sea Sparrow instead. Less lethal, however, still effective. A seperate military group, perhaps some sort of an air force should be made, that would be dedicated solely to those escaping in shamal. They could also be used to fight FLA  :war:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 04:27:19 pm
Speaking of the Hydra/hunter usage of the SAPD and FBI. I'd actually be in favor of removing the mentioned groups access to it and have them use a Sea Sparrow instead. Less lethal, however, still effective. A seperate military group, perhaps some sort of an air force should be made, that would be dedicated solely to those escaping in shamal. They could also be used to fight FLA  :war:
There have been enough military groups in Argonath that failed and brought nothing but issues and trouble.
Not happening again, got that confirmed  ;)

The server is based on Los Angeles, Las Vegas and San Francisco, we're not based on center of Afghanistan or Syria.
If there's militia group causing issues it's dealt with by SWAT and FBI, take a look at the situation that was happening in USA - Oregon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5w99LTKEA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 04:30:40 pm
There have been enough military groups in Argonath that failed and brought nothing but issues and trouble.
Not happening again, got that confirmed  ;)

The server is based on Los Angeles, Las Vegas and San Francisco, we're not based on center of Afghanistan or Syria.
If there's militia group causing issues it's dealt with by SWAT and FBI, take a look at the situation that was happening in USA - Oregon.

Military groups are stationed in the desert, and they're only supposed to be deployed on high risk criminals, but we got SWAT for that which is possibly the main reason why armies have failed, due to they are not needed.

Speaking of the Hydra/hunter usage of the SAPD and FBI. I'd actually be in favor of removing the mentioned groups access to it and have them use a Sea Sparrow instead. Less lethal, however, still effective. A seperate military group, perhaps some sort of an air force should be made, that would be dedicated solely to those escaping in shamal. They could also be used to fight FLA  :war:

We have STAR who are responsible in taking down airborne suspects.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 04:33:53 pm
Exactly, having a military is waste of space and resources. We don't have countries invading us or terrorists driving tanks and flying migs around the air to need a military.
Having an intelligence agency and tactical team is sufficient to deal with what Argonath faces nowadays.

Besides, as Ramo mentioned, SAPD has a division that is specialized for air deployment. We let them handle Heavy Air whenever they're available. If they're unavailable and Heavy Air is needed then it's deployed by us. There's certain rules and regulations on how it's deployed, people think we just enter whenever we want and go on spree. It doesn't work like that.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 04:37:11 pm
Exactly, having a military is waste of space and resources. We don't have countries invading us or terrorists driving tanks and flying migs around the air to need a military.
Having an intelligence agency and tactical team is sufficient to deal with what Argonath faces nowadays.

Besides, as Ramo mentioned, SAPD has a division that is specialized for air deployment. We let them handle Heavy Air whenever they're available. If they're unavailable and Heavy Air is needed then it's deployed by us. There's certain rules and regulations on how it's deployed, people think we just enter whenever we want and go on spree. It doesn't work like that.

Intelligence Agencies such as CIA are needed within Argonath, but definitely not by the same leadership because it has clearly failed. And to get back to the breaking regulations, I didn't mean anything regarding vehicles to be used.

Nobody gives a fuck to breaking regulations meaning minor ones such as being corrupt, helping in the drug business, helping criminal do illegal acts and whatnot.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 04:47:04 pm
Intelligence Agencies such as CIA are needed within Argonath
If Argonath had 200 players, sure it'd be nice to spread the work load.
However with its current state, having too many agencies and organizations will just lower the amount of people in the needed organizations like SAPD, SAFD and similar.
Thus why it's better to keep less agencies with more members in them at the moment than having tons of organizations and each with few people in it.

SAPD - The base of Law Enforcement, shows presence on the streets, enforces the main laws, has specialized divisions like SWAT, STAR to deal with more complex situations, aid FBI in tactical operations and so on.
FBI - Intelligence agency, infiltrates criminal organizations and prosecutes the criminals in the court. Has own specialized divisions to deal with internal tactical operations and so on.

Combined, we have everything that happens in Argonath covered. And I'm proud that SAPD and FBI work a lot more closer together since last year than they were in RS4 where it was constant witch hunt on each other.

but definitely not by the same leadership because it has clearly failed.
How CIA was established recently wasn't a way to go, originally made to share intelligence and work with FBI and SAPD, it ended up being isolated and recording us, members of FBI and SAPD instead of those who should've been recorded. People abusing the rights they were given and misrepresenting the Law Enforcement in general by doing so, thus why it had to be ended. If it had right people leading it, it would've survived.

Either way, we're starting to go off topic now.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Norrage on April 24, 2016, 04:58:23 pm
Combined, we have everything that happens in Argonath covered. And I'm proud that SAPD and FBI work a lot more closer together since last year than they were in RS4 where it was constant witch hunt on each other.

Thank god that rooster period is over.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mikal on April 24, 2016, 05:02:03 pm
We don't have countries invading us
Flint Country invades Argonath on a daily basis. :rolleyes:

we got SWAT for that which is possibly the main reason why armies have failed, due to they are not needed.
Argonath Armed Forces didn't fail! :mad:

(http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u516/N_Pskov/sa-mp-517.png)
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 05:06:32 pm
Flint Country invades Argonath on a daily basis. :rolleyes:
Argonath Armed Forces didn't fail! :mad:

(http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u516/N_Pskov/sa-mp-517.png)
Fun fact: You're standing at my house in a kidnap I organized with other [i]s.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mikal on April 24, 2016, 05:08:10 pm
Fun fact: You're standing at my house in a kidnap I organized with other [i]s.
Didn't it end with everyone inside being banned/tempbanned? :lol:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 05:11:30 pm

Mods overload right there.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Julio. on April 24, 2016, 05:14:00 pm
Was all about Argonath Army [AA]  :D
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 05:18:20 pm
Didn't it end with everyone inside being banned/tempbanned? :lol:
Yeah I believe so, it begun with me being tempbanned for returning after death.  :D
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TonySforza on April 24, 2016, 05:22:18 pm
Last time I RPed with the FBI I enjoyed it for weeks up to the point where I got sued with the demands of removing all my money and all my properties (aka account reset lel), luckily Shaun was the judge at the time and he was sensitive enough to completely ignore that stupid court case.
Maybe people remember that and are affraid of something similar? No one wants to be fucked in the ass raw.

Did I also mention that besides all of that I got sentenced to death? What's the point of taking all of my shit and then kill me?

_______________________________________ _______________________________________ _______________________________________ ________________

The character selection menu so you can have more than one legit character to RP with suggestion still stands, maybe that would end this "sehr it was another chatacter plz" discussion once and for all.
As for purposely dying to avoid court... showing complete disregard for your character's life causing a CK would fix it, but if you ask me I know that a lot of people would end up CKed wrongly because of different opinions on what "disregard for life is", I personally don't trust anybody in this community to judge that hence why I disagree with CKs. But some things...

EDIT: Trying to stay one step ahead of the Law Enforcement Agencies is what's fun in cop/criminal RP, having to stay 5/6 steps ahead to avoid getting caught is a fun game of chess, being interrogated and trying your best to create a credible bullshit story that also makes sense is fun, having to cover your tracks is fun, bribing is fun, finding loopholes in court cases to save yourself is fun, cleaning your tracks is fun, but must we really have shadow play on all the time to serve as proof that we did all of that to avoid any kind of power gaming and meta gaming? Maybe creating a new criminal system from scratch that gives criminals a provable way to do all of the above to avoid getting caught and the police a way to catch the criminal if his tracks aren't properly cleaned would be benefitial for both sides.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 05:49:48 pm
When did the case you keep mentioning happen? 2012? did I just not write a whole essay few pages behind and say how people have to stop taking things and situations that happen personally and stop dragging them along for years to come and have to stop considering old and new generations the same?

You need to drop the attitude that you need to win all the time in every situation, the attitude that you always must have a way to escape being caught. There are many who do it nowadays without being caught, without any script changes, advantages and so on. What's your problem in doing it? Just cannot accept to lose for once and end up in court?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 05:59:34 pm
@TonySforza
Oh, I thought that was just a funzie roleplay, what's the point of getting caught if they will take your life anyway, and I do agree, I wouldn't trust anyone to take a CK decision, we would basically be getting CKed daily.

I think the punishments should be lighter, it's fun to bribe the judge, the jury, finding loopholes, but it isn't fun to get fully wiped. The only thing on the line should be your notoriety and maybe like a max 100k fine.


But there has to be some benefit for doing it (if people for some reason aren't doing it to roleplay) because it's ridiculous to see the owner of a giant mafia kill himself, respawn and walk it off like "lel FBI git gud".


@.Matthew.

I am the first person to roleplay with the FBI, but let's not make accusations on who doesn't want to roleplay when you are asking for someone to get totally wiped like he is a money hacker, when I got unbanned Teddy wiped my account of like 15k and I was miffed, I can't imagine how pissed someone would be losing like 130mil over a court case when he voulentarely instead of killing himself like everyone decided to roleplay with you.

Why would the person role-playing be punished more than the person ignoring roleplay?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 06:02:33 pm
We have a proposed solution to this that I like, note this is proposed and not official:

Quite simply if you elect a character kill for immunity from rp routes, you must contact staff to reset your account back to default. When you die, you loose everything. All items, all properties, all vehicles, all money, ALL assets. Your character is truly killed off.

I know many of you will reject this because of your fucking pathetic "winning" complex. However if you can propose a better solution to close the gap of abuse on the rules I suggest you do so now.


Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 06:13:52 pm

Quite simply if you elect a character kill for immunity from rp routes, you must contact staff to reset your account back to default. When you die, you loose everything. All items, all properties, all vehicles, all money, ALL assets. Your character is truly killed off.

SCREW THIS RULE I HAVE A WINNING COMPLEX!

I totally agree with this.. as long as there will be an actual discussion had over the death, not just an one sided argument. But at that point why even CK yourself because you will be arguing over it anyway!

This is a brilliant solution because it will make lazy people do something! But than again I'm not a criminal so I really have no argument in this case.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 06:15:32 pm
I know many of you will reject this because of your f**cking pathetic "winning" complex. However if you can propose a better solution to close the gap of abuse on the rules I suggest you do so now.
New name, can't roleplay with same group or the same path.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Manoni on April 24, 2016, 06:16:01 pm
If the "winning" complex doesn't jumps to the stage what will happen instead is that we will have all mafias going against other mafias with their "rp" attempts to character kill them all until there's nothing left.

The mentality of several players here is not capable enough to handle such rules without wanting to take advantage of it.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Norrage on April 24, 2016, 06:16:46 pm
New name, can't roleplay with same group or the same path.

Won't work. Would require way too much administration since players will always try to interact with their previous group.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mark_DeCaval on April 24, 2016, 06:17:06 pm
Maybe there should be more emergency related rp, so when you are badly wounded you cant shoot anymore, same as tazer animation, but you can get revived at hospital if rescued on time.

It should be like you fall down when your hp goes below 30 percent or something without any futher complicayions with bodyparts damage system. If you get shoot on the ground you still die.

 Also adding some revive time if you die for good would be nice to prevent returning after death for both sides. So you will actually start to care if you die or not.

Edit: During waiting for revival of your character you wont be able to type to prevent for example cops calling for backup after they already died or notyfying other units of other people involved in it. Same for criminal or civilian to prenent calling friend for revenge, good for cooling down and thinking of the fact thats its all just a game.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 06:19:24 pm
The mentality of several players here is not capable enough to handle such rules without wanting to take advantage of it.
Hopefully there will be managers that will decide if it's a valid RP argument for CK, although it is a bit of an overkill I don't think it should be used for every minor thing, but totally if you are clearly evading roleplay.

I mean we could go in the other way and instead of punishing people ignoring roleplay we could reward the ones that roleplay.

New name, can't roleplay with same group or the same path.

Okay, calm down satan
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 06:22:12 pm
If the "winning" complex doesn't jumps to the stage what will happen instead is that we will have all mafias going against other mafias with their "rp" attempts to character kill them all until there's nothing left.

The mentality of several players here is not capable enough to handle such rules without wanting to take advantage of it.

I'm not sure if they speaking about character killing other groups' mafias, if so, its bollocks. You can only character kill your own group players and not even if that is so should his entire account be resetted.. people put a lot of hard work into gaining virtual money which is already pointless to me, and killing them afterwards? nah.

Maybe there should be more emergency related rp, so when you are badly wounded you cant shoot anymore, same as tazer animation, but you can get revived at hospital if rescued on time.

It should be like you fall down when your hp goes below 30 percent or something without any futher complicayions with bodyparts damage system. If you get shoot on the ground you still die.

 Also adding some revive time if you die for good would be nice to prevent returning after death for both sides. So you will actually start to care if you die or not.

No fuck that, if I lost a war, I lost, simple. I ain't spending a lifetime waiting for a medic to come and save me, I died, screw it.

-
I don't get how you people managed to start this conversation, why not leave it as it is?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mark_DeCaval on April 24, 2016, 06:26:33 pm

No fuck that, if I lost a war, I lost, simple. I ain't spending a lifetime waiting for a medic to come and save me, I died, screw it.

-
I don't get how you people managed to start this conversation, why not leave it as it is?
This is the exact kind of thinking that forced us to discuss all of it in the first place.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 06:28:18 pm
This is the exact kind of thinking that forced us to discuss all of it in the first place.

Lol? You're trying to change the entire bloody gameplay with your stupid methods fam. You want this kind of bullshit? Change communities. I joined this community 8 years ago because it didn't limit people to what they can do. Your method will basically get people to call for back up over skype in order to have more manpower and just more blood baths.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 06:31:33 pm
We have a proposed solution to this that I like, note this is proposed and not official:

Quite simply if you elect a character kill for immunity from rp routes, you must contact staff to reset your account back to default. When you die, you loose everything. All items, all properties, all vehicles, all money, ALL assets. Your character is truly killed off.

I know many of you will reject this because of your f**cking pathetic "winning" complex. However if you can propose a better solution to close the gap of abuse on the rules I suggest you do so now.

Hell no.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TruthSvensson on April 24, 2016, 06:32:32 pm
Why don't you punish those people according to the rules instead of calling them "shits"?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Huntsman on April 24, 2016, 06:33:57 pm
There have been enough military groups in Argonath that failed and brought nothing but issues and trouble.
Not happening again, got that confirmed  ;)

That's because of the questionable selection of leaders and the fact that none of those groups have been properly interpreted into the constitution which would describe their rights and conduct. Such group should be created by the HQ, not some wannabes.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 06:34:24 pm
This is the exact kind of thinking that forced us to discuss all of it in the first place.
I guess you want people to RP with medics, but this is going the wrong way with it, you can't force someone to do it or everyone will hate it, although the last time I had a good roleplay with an EMS was in 2012, I still think people who take their time roleplaying that are praise worthy, I just don't want to be forced to be wheeled into a stretcher every time I flip my sweeper like a dumbass. And besides, there are never enough medics online, the script is very basic, I would love for Teddy or someone to extend on it, in a way that EMS actually has to finish a test like IRL ER training and they get a medicine licence, and there could be different ranks of medics, for example field medics that show up as normal players but can whip out their badge sort of like the FBI..

Okay you got my EMS boner up, I need this in my life.

Although the below 30% hp is an overkill, I still think we shouldn't force people to RP, but expanding the EMS script would be.. hnnnngggg

Hell no.
Well unless we come up with a better idea we will be stuck with it, so think, think like you have never thought before!
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 24, 2016, 06:40:42 pm
You do know cops have means of capturing criminals without killing them, even more easier now with the addition of Tasers. Also its easier for cops to track people and run plates and do other RP shit to link players to the scene I don't know why are we discussing this.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 06:42:57 pm
Well unless we come up with a better idea we will be stuck with it, so think, think like you have never thought before!

We haven't been here playing for years just so one day, lose everything.
we don't need another rs5 crying apocalypse.
Better stay like it is, just like it was for 8years.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 06:45:32 pm
You do know cops have means of capturing criminals without killing them, even more easier now with the addition of Tasers. Also its easier for cops to track people and run plates and do other RP shit to link players to the scene I don't know why are we discussing this.

Yet you still abused the system even after this. That is why we're discussing this.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 06:47:32 pm
Why don't you punish those people according to the rules instead of calling them "shits"?

Because they aren't breaking any rules as of yet, they're manipulating existing rules to favor their "winning" outcome and to deny others another chance to roleplay within the server.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: taseen11 on April 24, 2016, 06:47:38 pm
We haven't been here playing for years just so one day, lose everything.
we don't need another rs5 crying apocalypse.
Better stay like it is, just like it was for 8years.

This will only happen if you:

if you elect a character kill for immunity from rp routes

Not if you just get into a shootout and get killed by the other mafia
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 06:48:44 pm
We haven't been here playing for years just so one day, lose everything.
we don't need another rs5 crying apocalypse.
Better stay like it is, just like it was for 8years.

You will never be forced into CK, you as the player must decide to CK. After which only then are you immune from rp consequences of your previous life. We will of course publish a obituary of those who are CK'd.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 06:50:05 pm
Yet you still abused the system even after this. That is why we're discussing this.

Elaborate.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 06:50:23 pm
This will only happen if you:

Not if you just get into a shootout and get killed by the other mafia

Well trust me, i know that if this rule come on charge, tons of people will login, form a army, try to CK me and then go back in their sleep.. so?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 06:50:41 pm
Better stay like it is, just like it was for 8years.
Well it can't stay like this because of
Yet you still abused the system even after this.

The idea isn't half bad though, because you only get screwed if you bend the rules in your favor, which is simple not to do. So it's not a Character kill per se, it's a form of punishment for ignoring RP.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 06:53:36 pm
You will never be forced into CK, you as the player must decide to CK. After which only then are you immune from rp consequences of your previous life. We will of course publish a obituary of those who are CK'd.

If that's so, i don't think it will make a big difference since nobody would like to be CK-ed and lose everything they got.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on April 24, 2016, 06:54:33 pm
Well it can't stay like this because of
The idea isn't half bad though, because you only get screwed if you bend the rules in your favor, which is simple not to do. So it's not a Character kill per se, it's a form of punishment for ignoring RP.

What kind of logic is that, that's like "you can't bend the law in your favour, its not allowed". What?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 06:55:47 pm
It will make a difference for us since people won't be able to be 500 other people when about to be fucked in court.
You are one person until you decide to kill your character. Once the character is killed via the official character kill then you cannot be punished for what you've done.

Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 06:56:13 pm
Elaborate.

Read. The first post elaborates all the details I need to.

If that's so, i don't think it will make a big difference since nobody would like to be CK-ed and lose everything they got.

Then they will unable to use the "sorry, I died" in court to avoid the repercussions. It's a choice they must make.

Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 06:57:36 pm
Then they will unable to use the "sorry, I died" in court to avoid the repercussions. It's a choice they must make.
Makes Sence.
Then let's do this! :D
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 07:04:42 pm
Makes Sence.
Then let's do this! :D
DAMN IT! I drew this up for you because you didn't get it: http://i.imgur.com/BQ1A4FF.png

What kind of logic is that, that's like "you can't bend the law in your favour, its not allowed". What?
But a dead person can't bend the law. No wait, let's start at the beginning.
If you kill yourself to avoid roleplay with the cops you aren't breaking a rule, but you aren't bending the law either, because you are dead, now the problem with this is that you can tell the cops "lol I died, you can't do anything to me" which is true and you get off scott free, but you can't do that, you are screwing the cops out of roleplay.

The whole point of this update is that cops and criminals will roleplay more
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:04:53 pm
now about this bullshit rigged "multi-character" system... for this I don't have any solution other than removing it. It's been a source of problems for years. Ideas?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mikal on April 24, 2016, 07:05:57 pm
Ideas?
Let every player have 2 accounts, like admins. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Luke on April 24, 2016, 07:07:13 pm
Let every player have 2 accounts, like admins. :rolleyes:

Yes!!!! Like legit I want to be a criminal and I want to be a cop, issue is that you cannot cos this is Argonath and if your in a channel with Corleone as a cop your criminal would be nice to have two identities.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:07:56 pm
I think the fundamental problem is almost everyone here looks at something and thinks "how can I abuse this" rather than "how can I obtain better roleplay experience from this". For that we compromise nice things and cool concepts for anti-abuse structures that do hinder more possibility. It's sad and demotivating.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 07:08:59 pm
One character for all. You choose what you want to be. Either be part of one group or another. Be a law abiding citizen or a criminal. Choice yours, but can't be both.
It's simply not possible in Argonath to allow people to have two characters. They'll abuse it and use information from one character to gain power in another.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 07:09:41 pm
Yet you still abused the system even after this. That is why we're discussing this.

Didn't Grandpa get killed by the same FBI that wanted to prosecute him?



now about this bullshit rigged "multi-character" system... for this I don't have any solution other than removing it. It's been a source of problems for years. Ideas?

Only allowed if you changed your SAMP nickname. So if you literally changed your name.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:12:11 pm
Didn't Grandpa get killed by the same FBI that wanted to prosecute him?



Only allowed if you changed your SAMP nickname. So if you literally changed your name.

1. Different scenario.

2. The problem is we ditch the foundation of Argonath, do we REALLY need to compromise good things for anti-abuse structures? Is it really coming to the point where we honestly cannot do ANYTHING nice or great because people constantly find a way to abuse it for personal benefit at the expense of other's quality in the server? At this point we should consider just leaving everything off. I really don't want to be apart of this joke anymore.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 07:14:18 pm
Remove those who abuse it and who are unable to accept loss. Remove those who encourage such behavior and don't comply with new roleplay standards. Once those who do it and who encourage it are gone, others wouldn't be under bad influence and would stay within the limits since I doubt they'd like to end banned. One risk with this is that quite a big chunk of playercount will be gone  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:14:33 pm
It's simply not possible in Argonath to allow people to have two characters. They'll abuse it and use information from one character to gain power in another.

Yet, I have the mentality to separate mine. I have the knowledge and connections on EvilTeddy to bring down many with Teddy, yet when switching between the two there is no knowledge shared. Compartmentalization is easy for me, but for others we can easily see compartmentalization is difficult across a single character. Obviously, wouldn't work with Argonath.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 07:16:10 pm
DAMN IT! I drew this up for you because you didn't get it: http://i.imgur.com/BQ1A4FF.png
:lol:

Let every player have 2 accounts, like admins. :rolleyes:

This.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mobius on April 24, 2016, 07:16:39 pm
It's fun to read this whole post knowing two days ago while roleplaying with an FBI agent he decided to take a cyanide pill in order to eventually die and bail out of the scenario we brought down to him... He'll probably get back to work on us after he had RPly died... I took the time myself to ask him if he would have CKed there, which he denied. How would that work? Porque explain it to me.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:17:49 pm
It's fun to read this whole post knowing two days ago while roleplaying with an FBI agent he decided to take a cyanide pill in order to eventually die and bail out of the scenario we brought down to him... He'll probably get back to work on us after he had RPly died... I took the time myself to ask him if he would have CKed there, which he denied. How would that work? Porque explain it to me.

All players, regardless of criminal and law enforcement would be subject to this CK rule. There would be no differentiating between the two.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 07:19:55 pm
Right. Sorry if this is too stupid.

Imagine I am a criminal who's facing charges. I willingly in full role play capacity, kill myself. The next character i want to role play is a rich, educated person. I can't do that. Why? Because my account was wiped clean. This here kind of hinders certain role play scenarios. I can't go back to the same group with a different approach because hey, I got CKED.

Discuss :)
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:20:30 pm
One risk with this is that quite a big chunk of playercount will be gone  :rolleyes:

I am a firm believer of quality over quantity. A lot of you talk about the player count as if it's important when the real importance is quality of engagement and roleplay within the server. When RS5.0 released there was hardly anyone on, a few quality people and my f**cking god we had a kidnapping roleplay that took place that was actually a full drawn out roleplay, extensive, and holy shit you wouldn't believe it actually ended without anyone dying or a single gun shot. Some of the best roleplays took place during that drought of players. I would take a small handful of good players over a shit load of shitty players any day.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on April 24, 2016, 07:20:58 pm
Removal of  so called RULE which says "dead people can not get sued in court" would be useful I guess; If you're dead, then you don't need your money and properties anymore.
Simply choose to get sued in court and at max lose 1/10 of your virtual money if you couldn't defend yourself, or accept your death.

Having two separated accounts would be useful too, but I doubt if HQ's going to trust everyone and let them do so. If you let trusted/veteran members to have 2 accounts it would be fun too.
I'm pretty sure its not going to work here though; people will find a way to screw it.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:22:07 pm
Right. Sorry if this is too stupid.

Imagine I am a criminal who's facing charges. I willingly in full role play capacity, kill myself. The next character i want to role play is a rich, educated person. I can't do that. Why? Because my account was wiped clean. This here kind of hinders certain role play scenarios. I can't go back to the same group with a different approach because hey, I got CKED.

Discuss :)

If you want to roleplay rich, do something in your next character to make you rich. I roleplay rich because I earned my wealth... despite popular belief. That's how life works, if you want to be rich... you earn it. It's no different here.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:23:47 pm
Removal of  so called RULE which says "dead people can not get sued in court" would be useful too I guess; If you're dead, then you don't need your money and properties anymore.
Simply choose to get sued in court and at max lose 1/10 of your virtual money if you couldn't defend yourself, or accept your death.

Having two separated accounts would be useful too, but I doubt if HQ's going to trust everyone and let them do so. If you let trusted/veteran members to have 2 accounts it would be fun too.
I'm pretty sure its not going to work here though; people will find a way to screw it.

With this we could also saying that "dying" in-game isn't really dying, but rather just being seriously "wasted" where you are taken to the hospital. That is afterall how the SP mechanic logic works. CJ never dies, he just gets wasted and taken to the hospital where a team of advanced, probably futuristic or alien, medical team can cure everything including being exploded into a million bits... but anyways, always a possibility as well.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 07:25:11 pm
If you want to roleplay rich, do something in your next character to make you rich. I roleplay rich because I earned my wealth... despite popular belief. That's how life works, if you want to be rich... you earn it. It's no different here.
I understand that. However, what if my character was already rich? Not that I care much about my virtual money but I'd like to be able to switch between characters(after getting CKED) and still have my assets to aid me in my next scenario.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 07:25:25 pm
The above would be good. If you get "killed" you are actually heavily wounded, unconcious and taken to hospital. If someone still wants, he can go ahead and character kill himself.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 07:26:43 pm
Maybe a poll with full details in it can do the trick right now?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:26:55 pm
I understand that. However, what if my character was already rich? Not that I care much about my virtual money but I'd like to be able to switch between characters(after getting CKED) and still have my assets to aid me in my next scenario.

If your character was already rich, and he's CK'd.... then he's dead. Do you understand the concept of death?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: eymas on April 24, 2016, 07:27:18 pm
he just gets wasted and taken to the hospital where a team of advanced, probably futuristic or alien, medical team can cure everything including being exploded into a million bits...
Magic is one hell of a drug.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TonySforza on April 24, 2016, 07:27:25 pm
When did the case you keep mentioning happen? 2012? did I just not write a whole essay few pages behind and say how people have to stop taking things and situations that happen personally and stop dragging them along for years to come and have to stop considering old and new generations the same?

You need to drop the attitude that you need to win all the time in every situation, the attitude that you always must have a way to escape being caught. There are many who do it nowadays without being caught, without any script changes, advantages and so on. What's your problem in doing it? Just cannot accept to lose for once and end up in court?

Go dig it if you want, and you clearly didn't understand jack shit of what I said otherwise you wouldn't be bitching about the "winning complex" still, study that, grab a dictionary and then face palm at your own blind rage.

We have a proposed solution to this that I like, note this is proposed and not official:

Quite simply if you elect a character kill for immunity from rp routes, you must contact staff to reset your account back to default. When you die, you loose everything. All items, all properties, all vehicles, all money, ALL assets. Your character is truly killed off.

I know many of you will reject this because of your f**cking pathetic "winning" complex. However if you can propose a better solution to close the gap of abuse on the rules I suggest you do so now.

It would feel super weird dying in a gunfight with the police and then continuing as if death didn't occurr, however I cannot find any better idea at the moment.

now about this bullshit rigged "multi-character" system... for this I don't have any solution other than removing it. It's been a source of problems for years. Ideas?

We have a proper ammount of jobs now I don't see a reason to have starting money on a new account (assuming we still do), remove the registration money or lower it to just enough to grab a taxi and allow multi-accounting. With the new rules using information from one character on another would be considered meta gaming aka shit RP anyway.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 07:29:29 pm
Go dig it if you want, and you clearly didn't understand jack shit of what I said otherwise you wouldn't be bad girling about the "winning complex" still, study that, grab a dictionary and then face palm at your own blind rage.

How is it relevant to me if some people from 2012 FBI sued you and you got sentenced to death or something? And how relevant it is to today's Argonath in April of 2016?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:32:03 pm
It would feel super weird dying in a gunfight with the police and then continuing as if death didn't occurr, however I cannot find any better idea at the moment.

You are right, it feels weird even having to come up with these ideas. I truly fucking hate the community we are right now. It disgusts me. People more concerned with money, assets, and fictional power than they are about quality enjoyment equally for everyone. I guess this is just humanity at this point, society everywhere is based on those exact principles. Perhaps I am simply naive to think I can fix it here.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:32:56 pm
Maybe a poll with full details in it can do the trick right now?

Only to have the results rigged by the connection those who are abusing the system posses?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 07:36:01 pm
I can't take anymore BS here, I'll give my fair share of what I've seen in my 5 years of SAMP.

Many srs rp servers allow players to earn hundreds of thousands, yet many choose to retain their specific rp career, in other words they keep most of the money in their bank(think of a separate bank account) and roleplay being a broke ass black who steals TVs like Bruce.

If they ever choose to get CK'd by their angry hood members, they usually change name(or get admin jailed for a millennium *cough* LS-shit *cough* until they donate for a new name or make a new account). If they choose to roleplay something new, say a business man, they withdraw whatever money they want as if nothing happened.

We don't have to limit our roleplay based on scripted assets, if I want to own an ammunation but roleplay a guy who supports anti gun movements(couldn't think of anything less hypocritical). Or even as I said before, someone who has millions in his bank account but chooses to RP an e-thug, who are you to judge my way of RP?

Bottom line is, RP isn't defined by what assets you own, it's defined by what you choose to act as. Owning assets such as a rusty old car for your broke ass homie contributes to his personality, but doesn't mean you can't have a mansion that you wish to keep but never use for this character.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 07:37:10 pm
If your character was already rich, and he's CK'd.... then he's dead. Do you understand the concept of death?
You read my reply wrong. I meant, what if the character I role play after my previous CK is rich? If I use my imagination, and since argonath is a world of its own, I am fully capable of doing such thing.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 07:38:48 pm
To solve multi character issue:
- Allow only one character per player, make people use proper roleplay names and they are what their name is. If one is named James McKing, then he is James McKing. He can lie when speaking to officers about his name, but they can retreive his real name by running a check via MDC on ownership of his vehicle by the vehicle plate or by an unique ID that is generated on each player's passport. But in court, you can't pull an excuse that you were being another person or something. That should be a goner.

To solve death issue:
- You only actually die when you accept a character kill. If you don't, then you are merely heavily injured and taken to a hospital. Heavy weapons are stripped off, you may keep a handgun and non-lethal weaponry , and will spawn at a hospital once healed. This can also remove the cops returning after death rule, since it should take a minute or two after dying (being in a hospital interior and laying on a bed). Once out of hospital, you are the same person you were before being there, just healed from the injuries.

This is just a brief idea / suggestion.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on April 24, 2016, 07:40:08 pm
You read my reply wrong. I meant, what if the character I role play after my previous CK is rich? If I use my imagination, and since argonath is a world of its own, I am fully capable of doing such thing.
THIS! The character I role play after my previous CK is superman, can I use flyhack sir? since argonath is a world of its own, I am fully capable of doing such thing.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 07:40:29 pm
I can't take anymore BS here, I'll give my fair share of what I've seen in my 5 years of SAMP.

Many srs rp servers allow players to earn hundreds of thousands, yet many choose to retain their specific rp career, in other words they keep most of the money in their bank(think of a separate bank account) and roleplay being a broke ass black who steals TVs like Bruce.

If they ever choose to get CK'd by their angry hood members, they usually change name(or get admin jailed for a millennium *cough* LS-shit *cough* until they donate for a new name or make a new account). If they choose to roleplay something new, say a business man, they withdraw whatever money they want as if nothing happened.

We don't have to limit our roleplay based on scripted assets, if I want to own an ammunation but roleplay a guy who supports anti gun movements(couldn't think of anything less hypocritical). Or even as I said before, someone who has millions in his bank account but chooses to RP an e-thug, who are you to judge my way of RP?

Bottom line is, RP isn't defined by what assets you own, it's defined by what you choose to act as. Owning assets such as a rusty old car for your broke ass homie contributes to his personality, but doesn't mean you can't have a mansion that you wish to keep but never use for this character.

I do not disagree, don't mistake me for someone who is against the current system we have. I enjoy it. I however am the one who is stuck to make the tough choices always. Do I keep a great system and let it be repeatedly abused and as a result seclude a group of players from achieving quality roleplay, or do I ditch a great system in order to prevent repeated abuse at the cost of an extensive amount of possibility, but at least secluded evenly across all players. I fucking hate having to be the one making these choices, but too many people haven't made these choices or arguments out of fear of being hated. I don't care. Hate me. Please. It's the Internet, I'll live. In the end I know the choices I am making are in good faith to fix things here for equality and quality.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Mobius on April 24, 2016, 07:40:40 pm
Oh well... I've always roleplayed multiple characters, hence why I defend distinguishing my username ("Mobius") from my multiple character names, which You wouldn't know unless you would actually get to know me. It's been ages now since the first time someone with an arrest warrant came looking for "Mr Mobius", who obviously doesnt exist. Since 2013 onwards I've roleplayed neutral characters, and having multiple characters (or atleast personalities) has always been worthy to me. I dont see a reason for which I should stop roleplaying like this. Not everyone portraying multiple characters is looking forward to abusing death.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ben. on April 24, 2016, 07:42:29 pm
Do I keep a great system and let it be repeatedly abused and as a result seclude a group of players from achieving quality roleplay, or do I ditch a great system in order to prevent repeated abuse at the cost of an extensive amount of possibility, but at least secluded evenly across all players.
Got a point.
If people didn't take the piss with what freedom we have, we'd be trusted to have it  :gand:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 07:42:58 pm
To solve death issue:
- You only actually die when you accept a character kill. If you don't, then you are merely heavily injured and taken to a hospital. Heavy weapons are stripped off, you may keep a handgun and non-lethal weaponry , and will spawn at a hospital once healed. This can also remove the cops returning after death rule, since it should take a minute or two after dying (being in a hospital interior and laying on a bed). Once out of hospital, you are the same person you were before being there, just healed from the injuries.
I'd rather have players into forced "death mode" where they can be saved by medics, finally giving them an actual job other than /s heal????
Pathetic people who escape RP consequences by committing suicide(Would you really do that in real life? If yes please end yourself) should be punished accordingly.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 07:43:38 pm
THIS! The character I role play after my previous CK is superman, can I use flyhack sir? since argonath is a world of its own, I am fully capable of doing such thing.
Reason why I don't reply to such topics. Can we for once stop ping these kinds of things? Being superman and role playing a rich civilian are two different things.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 07:45:33 pm
Also, a ban without an opportunity to return for people who evade role play in such manner would be suitable.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on April 24, 2016, 07:46:18 pm
I'd rather have players into forced "death mode" where they can be saved by medics, finally giving them an actual job other than /s heal????
Pathetic people who escape RP consequences by committing suicide(Would you really do that in real life? If yes please end yourself) should be punished accordingly.
Yeah, good idea. Medics and the rest of medical team can attend when the shootout or whatever it was finished and try to revive the guy at the scene or even take him to the nearest hospital if its necessary.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 07:47:00 pm
And if no medics?
I guess simply automatically transfer to hospital and stuff?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 07:47:45 pm
Yeah, good idea. Medics and the rest of medical team can attend when the shootout or whatever it was finished and try to revive the guy at the scene or even take him to the nearest hospital if its necessary.

This,

But if the guy decided to suicide  /ck  the body won't be there for the medics to save him?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 07:49:01 pm
Also, a ban without an opportunity to return for people who evade role play in such manner would be suitable.

"A ban without an opportunity to return" does not exist. Many permanent bans have been lifted.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on April 24, 2016, 07:49:30 pm
Reason why I don't reply to such topics. Can we for once stop ping these kinds of things? Being superman and role playing a rich civilian are two different things.

This is your life, if I decide to RP as superman character I would use a flyhack and get banned after a few minutes.
If you decide to RP as a rich guy you have to moneycheat and get banned after a few minutes.

Get the point please, if you wanna RP as a rich guy you are supposed to MAKE that guy rich.

This,

But if the guy decided to suicide /ck the body won't be there for the medics to save him.

That's his choice, indeed.

And if no medics?
I guess simply automatically transfer to hospital and stuff?
You have to pay more $$ for that.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 07:53:12 pm
To solve multi character issue:
- Allow only one character per player, make people use proper roleplay names and they are what their name is. If one is named James McKing, then he is James McKing. He can lie when speaking to officers about his name, but they can retreive his real name by running a check via MDC on ownership of his vehicle by the vehicle plate or by an unique ID that is generated on each player's passport. But in court, you can't pull an excuse that you were being another person or something. That should be a goner.

To solve death issue:
- You only actually die when you accept a character kill. If you don't, then you are merely heavily injured and taken to a hospital. Heavy weapons are stripped off, you may keep a handgun and non-lethal weaponry , and will spawn at a hospital once healed. This can also remove the cops returning after death rule, since it should take a minute or two after dying (being in a hospital interior and laying on a bed). Once out of hospital, you are the same person you were before being there, just healed from the injuries.

This is just a brief idea / suggestion.

And as a criminal you can return to the same roleplay as well as you never died, right?



Let's get this solved without all kind of additional scripting work please.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 07:53:13 pm
This is your life, if I decide to RP as superman character I would use a flyhack and get banned after a few minutes.
If you decide to RP as a rich guy you have to moneycheat and get banned after a few minutes.

Get the point please, if you wanna RP as a rich guy you are supposed to MAKE that guy rich.

That's his choice, indeed.
You have to pay more $$ for that.
I don't think I have to go around telling people how my character earned money. I don't care about my virtual asset but since I worked for it both in and out of role play, I'd like to protect it.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on April 24, 2016, 07:57:23 pm
And as a criminal you can return to the same roleplay as well as you never died, right?

No shit... what? :|
You already found a way to screw it mate....

You shouldn't be able to return to the same situation. Unless the reviving process takes more than 30 minutes or something like that.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Julio. on April 24, 2016, 08:03:19 pm
Let's get this solved without all kind of additional scripting work please.

Yeah definitely, I'm not liking some of the ways these suggestions are pointing...
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 08:11:05 pm
No shit... what? :|
You already found a way to screw it mate....

You shouldn't be able to return to the same situation. Unless the reviving process takes more than 30 minutes or something like that.

I just analyze the idea to avoid a similar topic next week.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ivan_MC on April 24, 2016, 08:14:07 pm
this went from 2 to 10 fast gg
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: ssaammee on April 24, 2016, 08:17:29 pm
In all honesty, is this serious? What the actual fuck.. I am yet to see a more destructive discussion. This is as far from the sole purpose you get from SA:MP. Entertainment. It boils down to common courtesy and not having a babysitter to observe anything you do.

Have fun and enjoy the game. Don't release all frustration over a "L" and implement whatever that falls under the category 'realism'. You can't die unless you CK? Come on.

Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 08:19:47 pm
No shit... what? :|
You already found a way to screw it mate....

You shouldn't be able to return to the same situation. Unless the reviving process takes more than 30 minutes or something like that.

So me as a criminal, i kidnap X player, for some reason, just like we know his crew will show up to aid him.
A shotout start and the X payer's crew get killed.. i continue the kidnap process and in 30minutes his crew can show up again because they revived ?
 :sweat:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Huntsman on April 24, 2016, 08:21:42 pm
If I use my imagination, and since argonath is a world of its own, I am fully capable of doing such thing.

That is exactly the kind of cancerous "I can RP whatever the f. I want" mentality that Argonath is trying to shake off after RS5.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Axison on April 24, 2016, 08:24:52 pm
That is exactly the kind of cancerous "I can RP whatever the f. I want" mentality that Argonath is trying to shake off after RS5.
I do not mean going ape shit and turning super human. I am taking about a logical and realistic role play character. And since many of you don't get my point, I'll just leave this discussion.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 08:27:26 pm
I love some of the people leaving smart remarks, some of them are the same people this topic is about. Don't like the topic? Why don't you stop being the same cunts abusing the system. Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Sweeper on April 24, 2016, 08:30:39 pm
I love some of the people leaving smart remarks, some of them are the same people this topic is about. Don't like the topic? Why don't you stop being the same cunts abusing the system. Just some food for thought.

Names?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Rei on April 24, 2016, 08:31:49 pm
I love some of the people leaving smart remarks, some of them are the same people this topic is about. Don't like the topic? Why don't you stop being the same cunts abusing the system. Just some food for thought.

Let's not mention that half of the people suggesting are, well .. a bit inactive ingame :P
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 08:34:47 pm
Names?

People got upset with me publicly calling people out. People who are much higher on the food chain.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Teddy on April 24, 2016, 08:35:28 pm
Let's not mention that half of the people suggesting are, well .. a bit inactive ingame :P

Yeah, I mean but like they are all their not being in-game gives them the best perspective to help fix in-game stuff AM I RIGHT? #Sarcasm.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Luke on April 24, 2016, 08:36:50 pm
Imma just lay this down here, step away from the monitor for 5 minutes and chill the fuck out, this back and forth arguing shit has to stop, its just constant finger pointing back and forth with no resolving.. supposed to be a dam game where you have fun and chill not argue every 5 mins over what someone did or what someone is doing or has said. Jesus.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 24, 2016, 08:42:04 pm
Well since am an old bastard who'se going to die anytime soon, I'm writing my will and leaving all my assets to someone else in my family, if the courts recognize deaths then they will have to recognize my last will and testament.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Mario. on April 24, 2016, 08:49:47 pm
lol
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: FARQ3X on April 24, 2016, 08:50:59 pm
Well since am an old bastard who'se going to die anytime soon, I'm writing my will and leaving all my assets to someone else in my family, if the courts recognize deaths then they will have to recognize my last will and testament.

Your Dealers number? I'd like some of what you're on.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 24, 2016, 08:59:25 pm
Your Dealers number? I'd like some of what you're on.
you're just mad that u didnt come up with the idea.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Tonny. on April 24, 2016, 09:13:00 pm
Some criminals really, deeply love to RolePlay, but they face different issues that prevents them to make a proper RP.

Starting with cops, some who use tazer on a person who's holding a gun or even shooting. Also, they don't mind /su-ing someone who is wearing a mask, tho I wonder how the got the name. In addition, drug-preventing operations are so random and any cop can storm in on a field full of weed and start shooting and I don't know what, when they are supposed to gather and organize it as a proper, planned operation. There are also some other cops that somehow, don't want to RP. There are not a lot of routine checks, and even when you want to start a RP they simply leave or suspect you for some dumb reason.

To conclude, criminals are rather ignored on their RP or forced to not RP due to the circumstances, or they are scared to face a cop at all cause they would probably get banned for "Cop Baiting".

 *A Suggestion: We need some corrupted cops to enhance the RP.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 09:16:48 pm


 *A Suggestion: We need some corrupted cops to enhance the RP.

I tried being a corrupt cop once, it worked for exactly one ticket, I told the person I was taking his license away, I got reported to an admin, the admin asked me "who gave you the permission to do that" and cop banned me.

To be fair that was back in RS4 but I don't think it would've gone any differently now.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 09:19:37 pm
Admins don't do anything to people who decide to be corrupt as long as it's within limits. You can't expect them to watch you go around and kill people for no reason using the duty weapons, or /su people randomly. Roleplay it properly and only one that can punish you is the SAPD command or FBI. And no, if you do it properly you won't be caught as easy.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Link9rly on April 24, 2016, 09:20:03 pm
*A Suggestion: We need some corrupted cops to enhance the RP.
Last time Rusty and Alen tried that, they got busted via metagaming and then copbanned. What about removing /groups? Last time, FLA was not allowed into the SAPD Ceremony in January and the only way they found out who was FLA was through /groups. I've no idea why that command even got implemented.

ADDENDUM: Maybe use undercover duty for actual roleplay instead of taking pictures of people because their TeamSpeak channel is named "Totally Not Cooking Meth?"

Oh, and don't worry, everyone else. I'll be sure to shitpost to your responses sent to me later.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: .Matthew. on April 24, 2016, 09:24:19 pm
Don't matter who is in question, if someone commits acts of corruption in front of command members or FBI, they're going down the drain. You simply cannot expect us to watch and let it be.
On the other hand, if you do it without any of those nearby, then you may only be caught if the victim reports you with evidence.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Tonny. on April 24, 2016, 09:29:38 pm
Don't matter who is in question, if someone commits acts of corruption in front of command members or FBI, they're going down the drain. You simply cannot expect us to watch and let it be.
On the other hand, if you do it without any of those nearby, then you may only be caught if the victim reports you with evidence.

No one is saying that it should be legal to be a corrupt cop. But it shouldn't be prevented by admins (as long as the corrupted guys RP properly), and they shouldn't get caught just cause some guy goes up to SAPD Command or FBI and starts reporting that X person did X thing to them, when they don't know who that guy really was. They can simply report to the PD or FBI that they got robbed by cops (if the corrupted person does sth clearly illegal), and that's when the SAPD Command or FBI can start investigating.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Link9rly on April 24, 2016, 09:30:40 pm
Don't matter who is in question, if someone commits acts of corruption in front of command members or FBI, they're going down the drain. You simply cannot expect us to watch and let it be.
On the other hand, if you do it without any of those nearby, then you may only be caught if the victim reports you with evidence.

Try a little reading comprehension next time, buddy. I'm sure even you can manage it. I'll even format it for easier reading just for you.

Last time Rusty and Alen tried that, they got busted via metagaming and then copbanned. What about removing /groups? Last time, FLA was not allowed into the SAPD Ceremony in January and the only way they found out who was FLA was through /groups. I've no idea why that command even got implemented.
via metagaming and then copbanned
via metagaming and then copbanned
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: jannik852 on April 24, 2016, 09:31:08 pm
"If people don't want to roleplay, /q" - I believe these were words of Gandalf.
Cops, criminals or neutral boobs; it should be comprehended by everyone.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 24, 2016, 09:31:48 pm
Lets be honest Law Enforcement don't Role Play properly when it comes to curroption and cop bans.
I've seen multiple scenarios in which numerous players are cop banned for totally Non-RP reasons or done with no role play what so ever. You could have worn a mask gloves avoided all imaginary cameras as long as they know the blip above your head you're screwed. If you associate with criminals as a cop outside of role play then you're also screwed. I've seen players and even admins fired or leave SAPD out of frustrations because of persecution because of who they hang out with on Teamspeak, or cause They RP a criminal on their non admin account.
Law Enforcement on the whole don't take the time to properly find out information about players or criminals through Role Play yet criminals are the ones persecuted for poor role play or abusing the system.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Conk on April 24, 2016, 09:33:09 pm
*A Suggestion: We need some corrupted cops to enhance the RP.

Tell that to the nobs who constantly copban me for it, without any roleplay or investigation whatsoever
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TrotlDebilni on April 24, 2016, 09:39:01 pm
Tell that to the nobs who constantly copban me for it, without any roleplay or investigation whatsoever
Ditto
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: TiMoN on April 24, 2016, 10:03:18 pm
If law enforcement group leaders don't start outlining what is and isn't corruption, who can and can't be corrupt and how, they should be removed tbh.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Jellyfish on April 24, 2016, 10:13:38 pm
Tell that to the nobs who constantly copban me for it, without any roleplay or investigation whatsoever

I'll have to disagree with on this (with you and the guy above). SAPD recruits who act "corrupt" without any repercussions whatsoever are literally the worst thing about the server right now. If you're a criminal if it's all fine and dandy since you can get suspected, evade and even kill them without much worries. If you're roleplaying a civilian it's literally the worst kind of thing you can experience since if you ask for an investigation or question him, the guy will tie you to his cruiser and shoot you out in the woods, really amazing roleplay from his side as well (I know, not everyone does this, but the fact that it's possible is stupid). This is has happened to me twice now and most of the freecop corrupt zero repercussions go on duty in a week without anyone remembering bullshit is the reason I actually changed my name and switched to a criminal character temporarily. It's bad enough the established police department can do questionable stuff to pad up their activity reports, it's worse if some asshole who isn't going to be affected by this at all in a roleplay manner goes around being "corrupt". If freecops get copbanned for this stuff it's completely justified. Mikal turning the whole "camera" thing into a meme was funny when it happened, but it was justified even then since it's stupid having weekend officers who don't even roleplay a specific character going around shooting people without reason. The SAPD/FBI/CIA people will be removed from their roles and their characters and future chances to join will be harmed, you'll just go back on duty in a week and pull the same shit again.

> b-but muh roleplay??

It's just another loophole like the criminal "was playing another character" stuff that needs to be closed.

(This isn't really meant to be targeted at you specifically, mostly at freecops at large)
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Julio. on April 24, 2016, 10:29:08 pm
I think it's fine to RP like that in character provided you've got the permission of the other player before it occurs. Or indeed RP shooting somebody out in the woods (but not actually do it).
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Drix on April 25, 2016, 12:05:56 am
Lets be honest Law Enforcement don't Role Play properly when it comes to curroption and cop bans.
I've seen multiple scenarios in which numerous players are cop banned for totally Non-RP reasons or done with no role play what so ever. You could have worn a mask gloves avoided all imaginary cameras as long as they know the blip above your head you're screwed. If you associate with criminals as a cop outside of role play then you're also screwed. I've seen players and even admins fired or leave SAPD out of frustrations because of persecution because of who they hang out with on Teamspeak, or cause They RP a criminal on their non admin account.
Law Enforcement on the whole don't take the time to properly find out information about players or criminals through Role Play yet criminals are the ones persecuted for poor role play or abusing the system.


I'll have to disagree with on this (with you and the guy above). SAPD recruits who act "corrupt" without any repercussions whatsoever are literally the worst thing about the server right now. If you're a criminal if it's all fine and dandy since you can get suspected, evade and even kill them without much worries. If you're roleplaying a civilian it's literally the worst kind of thing you can experience since if you ask for an investigation or question him, the guy will tie you to his cruiser and shoot you out in the woods, really amazing roleplay from his side as well (I know, not everyone does this, but the fact that it's possible is stupid). This is has happened to me twice now and most of the freecop corrupt zero repercussions go on duty in a week without anyone remembering bullshit is the reason I actually changed my name and switched to a criminal character temporarily. It's bad enough the established police department can do questionable stuff to pad up their activity reports, it's worse if some asshole who isn't going to be affected by this at all in a roleplay manner goes around being "corrupt". If freecops get copbanned for this stuff it's completely justified. Mikal turning the whole "camera" thing into a meme was funny when it happened, but it was justified even then since it's stupid having weekend officers who don't even roleplay a specific character going around shooting people without reason. The SAPD/FBI/CIA people will be removed from their roles and their characters and future chances to join will be harmed, you'll just go back on duty in a week and pull the same shit again.

> b-but muh roleplay??

It's just another loophole like the criminal "was playing another character" stuff that needs to be closed.

(This isn't really meant to be targeted at you specifically, mostly at freecops at large)

Could have not said it better. These people need permanent removal from police duty, because it sucks when you try to build reputation and some little fucks come on PD duty to troll other people, ruin their gaming because #IRPCORRUPT.
/me ters his bedge.
/me puts mask
/me gets crusier
/me pullover!!!!!!!111111111111

VERY RP.

PS : Regarding people leaving, get your facts straight before you pull shit like that, everyone can join your TS channel and bullshit about how unfair treatment they got but it doesn't mean that they are right. You gotta see things from both sides when running your mouth over those shit.



Anyways some of you folks make me sick, i mean i laughed my ass off because of the stupidity of the mentality our players have and..
I truly f**cking hate the community we are right now. It disgusts me. People more concerned with money, assets, and fictional power than they are about quality enjoyment equally for everyone.
. I feel that i should leave and let these folks enjoy their gaming and winning, because obviously we ain't going to change and no matter how much and how hard i try to make things better coming from law enfrocement side, there's always a rooster who pulls his head out bad girling about something. I'm amazed why is this topic even going with all this hate around here..
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ben. on April 25, 2016, 12:08:08 am
I think perhaps there's a line between genuine RP corruption and some clown going nuts.
Bless their souls  :janek:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Devin on April 25, 2016, 12:10:04 am
Hi, Welcome to Argonath RPG, we are a roleplay server.

Enough said? Why over-complicate something that doesn't need to be made more complex?
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: FARQ3X on April 25, 2016, 12:23:20 am
Lets be honest Law Enforcement don't Role Play properly when it comes to curroption and cop bans.
I've seen multiple scenarios in which numerous players are cop banned for totally Non-RP reasons or done with no role play what so ever. You could have worn a mask gloves avoided all imaginary cameras as long as they know the blip above your head you're screwed. If you associate with criminals as a cop outside of role play then you're also screwed. I've seen players and even admins fired or leave SAPD out of frustrations because of persecution because of who they hang out with on Teamspeak, or cause They RP a criminal on their non admin account.
Law Enforcement on the whole don't take the time to properly find out information about players or criminals through Role Play yet criminals are the ones persecuted for poor role play or abusing the system.

You can't say dog shit your RP was 2 shouts. While every day I see proper cops RPing but people like you all they do is complain due to some new players. Like for F*** sake when I was new everyone cut me slack. Now when you RP with veteran cops *MOSTLY* you get high quality RPs. For example:
Arslan
Drix
Matthew
Kevin
Bruce
These are just 5 examples. Stop being such a f**cking pessimist and realise people learn if you help them, with your attitdue how are they supposed to learn? Teach them in PM what they should do how next time. Trust me this way we will eventually get the RP up. Whining like that just makes you look stupid.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Julio. on April 25, 2016, 12:25:32 am
Winning, why does Charlie Sheen come to mind?

You know what happens Dev, you give people an inch and they take a mile... sounds like a group of people has just seemed to have tried to enforce a couple of things by themselves and think it's law.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 25, 2016, 12:36:27 am
mindless rambling

Basically you're saying no one is allowed to Role Play a currupt officer because it ruins the image of your oh so precious Police Department. You do know you're trying to limit the role play possibilities of people. We're not talking about people who go around on Police Duty just abusing the commands and doing bullshit without Role Play cause this is usually admin dealt. We're talking about cops who genuinely Role Plays as a curropt officer which I see nothing wrong with. We're not saying you can't punish them for their actions, we're saying that you guys punish them in most cases without any valid Role Play evidence and just use meta gaming which is quite horrible. You know its true and you can't deny the facts that you guys literally just use OOC information to punish people. I've experienced it and many others have. There are way too much ways for you guys to actually Role Play and find out information in order to punish curropt officers. And as to your statements about my so called accusations from what I've seen from the out side looking in and there is no way you can convince me nor anyone else that the way you guys handle stuff is correct. And oh yeah your last point makes me laugh out loud as well seeing as you were the one that was going around bragging that "No one beats my Police Department".
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 25, 2016, 12:40:00 am
You can't say dog shit your RP was 2 shouts. While every day I see proper cops RPing but people like you all they do is complain due to some new players. Like for F*** sake when I was new everyone cut me slack. Now when you RP with veteran cops *MOSTLY* you get high quality RPs. For example:
Arslan
Drix
Matthew
Kevin
Bruce
These are just 5 examples. Stop being such a f**cking pessimist and realise people learn if you help them, with your attitdue how are they supposed to learn? Teach them in PM what they should do how next time. Trust me this way we will eventually get the RP up. Whining like that just makes you look stupid.

What the fuck are you on about, if you're still mad that I killed you while on level 9 notoriety I'm sorry but move on its just a game. You don't fuckin know shit about what goes on out side of Ganton.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: ssaammee on April 25, 2016, 12:44:50 am
How serious do you guys take this? Go in-game and set example yourself if it's a change you desire and not flex your virtual muscles. Lead with a carrot and not a whip. Otherwise you aren't entilted to justly whine here on the forum and it most certaintly won't get your beloved euphoria. Just breath, get some fresh air and have fun. Jesus.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Zgjim_Zejna on April 25, 2016, 12:49:33 am
You don't fuckin know shit about what goes on out side of Ganton.
I agree with you here.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: psyron on April 25, 2016, 12:54:30 am
I agree with you here.

(http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i49/5/5/14/frabz-I-Agree-Nice-Color-f46cf8.jpg)
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Drix on April 25, 2016, 12:55:36 am

mindless rambling

(https://i.imgflip.com/131sf0.jpg)
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Omri on April 25, 2016, 01:01:25 am
Roleplaying as a corrupt cop should be allowed IMO as it could and would promote some good RP from both sides. Of course the corrupt cop should remember to live by the standard rules of Argonath but when it comes to RPing I see no reason why a cop should not be allowed to be corrupt. It would be up to F.B.I or Internal Affairs to take justice into their hands and then THERE he could get cop banned. This could all be done via roleplay. This cop would need to be faced serious charges and put infront a criminal judge. I don't see any reason why an admin should interfere if both parts abide by the ground rules set by Administration. Someone with bad skills as a corrupt officer would get caught pretty fast but in the other hand, the good one gives F.B.I & Internal Affairs pretty good reason to try to bust this corrupt cop with solid evidence.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Drix on April 25, 2016, 01:04:43 am
Roleplaying as a corrupt cop should be allowed IMO as it could and would promote some good RP from both sides. Of course the corrupt cop should remember to live by the standard rules of Argonath but when it comes to RPing I see no reason why a cop should not be allowed to be corrupt. It would be up to F.B.I or Internal Affairs to take justice into their hands and then THERE he could get cop banned. This could all be done via roleplay. This cop would need to be faced serious charges and put infront a criminal judge. I don't see any reason why an admin should interfere if both parts abide by the ground rules set by Administration.
We never stopped corrupt roleplay, i could not care less seriously.. done it myself but people need to do it properly. Some use SAPD advantages to abuse other people and ruin their gaming on purpose by  trolling around. That's what i hate.. and that's what i need to stop.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Omri on April 25, 2016, 01:09:07 am
We never stopped corrupt roleplay, i could not care less seriously.. done it myself but people need to do it properly. Some use SAPD advantages to abuse other people and ruin their gaming on purpose by  trolling around. That's what i hate.. and that's what i need to stop.
Well, trolling and abusing is something that often leads into punishment. I strongly doubt that this goes unpunished and things can always be dealt with reasonable depending on the situation. I strongly believe that if someone keeps trolling & abusing his SFPD rights he should not be able to go on duty anymore.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Arslan on April 25, 2016, 01:09:39 am
You can't say dog shit your RP was 2 shouts. While every day I see proper cops RPing but people like you all they do is complain due to some new players. Like for F*** sake when I was new everyone cut me slack. Now when you RP with veteran cops *MOSTLY* you get high quality RPs. For example:
Arslan
Drix
Matthew
Kevin
Bruce
These are just 5 examples. Stop being such a f**cking pessimist and realise people learn if you help them, with your attitdue how are they supposed to learn? Teach them in PM what they should do how next time. Trust me this way we will eventually get the RP up. Whining like that just makes you look stupid.

Don't worry he just mad because he got sued and now suddenly no cop knows how to role play. He also forgets to mention it was his attempt in trolling cops at fbi hq but he got fucked with a warrant instead making our life a lot easier.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 25, 2016, 01:28:40 am
Don't worry he just mad because he got sued and now suddenly no cop knows how to role play. He also forgets to mention it was his attempt in trolling cops at fbi hq but he got fucked with a warrant instead making our life a lot easier.   :rolleyes:

The court case has nothing to do with my opinions as I've made my points clear long before this case or anything of the sort. Even if this case goes on it will just be yet another loss on the books of the FBI's prosecution record.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: FARQ3X on April 25, 2016, 01:50:58 am
The court case has nothing to do with my opinions as I've made my points clear long before this case or anything of the sort. Even if this case goes on it will just be yet another loss on the books of the FBI's prosecution record.

Man ur biased as fuck wake up its not a dream.
Title: Re: Criminals: stop and think about this
Post by: Ivan_MC on April 25, 2016, 10:35:54 am
another loss on the books of the FBI's prosecution record.
:lol:
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