Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Teddy on May 04, 2016, 10:21:19 pm
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Hola,
Please: read everything before responding otherwise you're wasting time and highly degrading the quality of this discussion
I have grown incredibly close to saying fuck all of you and leaving. I do not think anyone can really understand how dangerously close it has gotten to that point. In anycase with some help, I've taken a look from a different perspective. The problem maybe the script in some cases, might be the cops in some cases, might be the criminals in some cases, and hell might even be just dumb luck. Which is fine. We're humans, we make mistakes. The script isn't perfect either. However what needs to stop is the constant crying and moaning. It's not constructive or progressive. If you truly want to make things better we need to start shaping our attitudes and voicing our thoughts and opinions in a way which promote quality development equally. This will not happen overnight. This will not happen without people being told to fuck off. This will not happen easily.
One of the ways I've looked at is as I can't fix this community because it doesn't want to be fix. In thinking deeper about this I found the root of the problem being we cannot talk things out. The moment something rises, it's hostility, provoking, and a massive popcorn fest. This needs to stop. If we cannot communicate and if we cannot reason, then I see no point in being here. I am done with the babysitting. I am done with the hand holding. I am damn near about done giving everyone chances and chances and chances with absolutely nothing but disrespect.
So effective immediately this applies to everyone:
There is to be no moaning in-game or on the forums. If in-game a tempban or worse maybe issued. If on the forums, 30 day tempbans under our zero tolerance policy. If you disagree with something, shape a response that is constructive and betters the conversation to a more quality discussion on the subject. To reiterate: I am not saying you cannot disagree with something, or be pissed off about an event.
There is to be absolutely no disrespecting a developer, their work, or the development process. The people who have worked on this team have given sleepless nights, extra long days, and countless hours on end to produce something for you all without a single dime in pay. You will start showing respect for their contributions. Again, if you disagree with a scripter's work trying a more constructive approach. I myself disagree with some of the choices made by the team and when that arises I don't go downing them to everyone I see. I address them directly and elaborate my disagreement, make suggestion for improvement, and discuss the problem out.
One other thing that is quite funny is how many people accuse us of bias. I myself have been accused by so many different groups that I am in perspective of everyone biased for and against everyone. Some say I am friends with Soprano and favor them, while Soprano says I hate them and favor Gvardia. Criminals say I do everything for cops and are biased for them. Cops say I focus to much on criminals and am biased against cops. In reality the only thing I am biased for is a better server. When addressing something I always look for the option that benefits the community and server as a whole. I must admit, as I said I am only human and I get it wrong... probably even a lot. If that's a problem for too many I will gladly step away. If not, talk with me as many people have found I am more willing to talk out problems than any other person in equal or higher positions in this community.
I really hope this inspires some of you to really think about how you've been going about "bettering" this community and actually start making progress in doing so.
Kindly,
Teddy
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Finally, a stance that takes a more firm approach when it comes to handling certain groups and/or individuals and holds them accountable for their actions. Thank you, is all I can say.
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:app:
An outstanding proposed solution. I support this 100%.
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What if I'm not happy and want to voice my opinion on a certain aspect of the game? Anyway, you and the scripters/devs have done more than enough to keep everyone here happy. If people still moan fuck them.
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It's really easy, have constructive criticism or gtfo.
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What if I'm not happy and want to voice my opinion on a certain aspect of the game?
If you disagree with something, shape a response that is constructive and betters the conversation to a more quality discussion on the subject. To reiterate: I am not saying you cannot disagree with something, or be pissed off about an event.
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We're all tired of it, that we can agree upon. Even I myself am close to leaving because I see no purpose or joy in argonath anymore, this being why.
I doubt you guys enjoy it either, but some of the players among those should understand this. Even you would succumb under this weight we've been put under, by your shoveling.
All I can hope is that we won't be -too- restrictive with it, but not too lenient either.
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What if I'm not happy and want to voice my opinion on a certain aspect of the game?
You are free to do that. This is mostly for those who only point out the problems in a degrading way. This isn't a presidential election and nobody here is Donald Trump. Things aren't made better by saying they're wrong. They're made better by saying what the problem is, and working collectively to fix them. All we need to really make things better here is people talking less shit, provoking less, and actually getting engaged in constructive conversation and debate.
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All I can hope is that we won't be -too- restrictive with it, but not too lenient either.
This won't restrict people to share their opinion. That wouldn't make any sense to enforce after releasing a version with a majority of it being shaped from user ideas. We will restrict people from shit posting and merely inciting arguments for their own enjoyment or people who have no interest in actually making things better for everyone here.
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Preach!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bj5fxkgCQAAHxW-.jpg)
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It's really easy, have constructive criticism or gtfo.
Depends who judges what is constructive and what isn't, although I trust Teddy, the people I trust with such decisions are few and far between.
And what I just said could be seen as disrespect to the HQ, how far are we taking this, hopefully not to the point of censorship, but just so far that people will learn to type out comments with thought put into them, not some one liner memes with popcorn image attached.
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Glad that this is coming into play, see I used to be one of them people who moaned alot about things and slated people/things, but moaning and kicking all the toys all over the place never is really the answer and rather just creates more issues, you have to have a clear mind and just accept things in life how they are, if something don't go your way, you simple take a deep breath carrying on. Why cry over spilt milk? Behind you the whole way Teddy.
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This won't restrict people to share their opinion. That wouldn't make any sense to enforce after releasing a version with a majority of it being shaped from user ideas. We will restrict people from shit posting and merely inciting arguments for their own enjoyment or people who have no interest in actually making things better for everyone here.
Moaning is a pretty subjective term, so I'm glad you just said that. I just hope you won't ban people for saying stuff like 'I prefer the old drug system' if they don't give an argument right away in /p. Some scripters might consider it moaning, others might consider it just stating an opinion/preference.
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To be honest I didn't notice any extraordinary amounts of moaning. If anything there's been a lot of praise. Not sure what triggered this topic.
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To be honest I didn't notice any extraordinary amounts of moaning. If anything there's been a lot of praise. Not sure what triggered this topic.
+ I don't see any reason why moaning is disallowed if that's the only way to attract attention on reports and rulebreaking.
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+ I don't see any reason why moaning is disallowed if that's the only way to attract attention on reports and rulebreaking.
No that isn't the only way. bad girling 24/7 pisses people off and ruins the atmosphere of the server as well as mood of large groups of people because every bad girling and moaning topic turns into a war between people when it shouldn't even be posted there but reported to admins or HQ via means provided. And if you still think like this and anyone else who does is a cancer to this community.
Also people need to learn not everything is perfect but just adapt to what is there and try to have fun out of it.
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This topic needs to be made earlier. I'm really happy that you made it and I think people will surely change their behavior after reading this.
Moaning about every single thing isn't a good way, if anyone is having a problem with anything, why not they simple go private and talk with developers? Is it necessary to make a topic and then start moaning on it? I think people only doing this just to get attention.
Found something which is not fair for criminals but giving advantages to cops? Great! lets make a topic and have some fun on it. First of all people needs to stop being try hard.
Scripters/developers work hard every day and night, If still people moan instead of appreciating the hard work, why not they go and try making their own shit and then realize how the f**k it really works.
Thank you for making this, Teddy.
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To be honest I didn't notice any extraordinary amounts of moaning. If anything there's been a lot of praise. Not sure what triggered this topic.
Touché.
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+ I don't see any reason why moaning is disallowed if that's the only way to attract attention on reports and rulebreaking.
A concept I am not surprised you fail to understand to be quite honest. You see you are actually entirely wrong and I will give you an example where elaborating and being constructive helps.
You see in reality moaning doesn't draw attention to the problem as it only causes massive fights and people get so wrapped up in the argument than they do the actual point. As we've seen in recent topics they quickly became about so much more than what the origin was about. There was so many points and content that was entirely irrelevant that it became impossible to decode what was contributing to the original point and what was purely excess that added no value. If people are more constructive and remain on point then we're able to quickly see the problem, see people's feedback, and see some suggested solutions and responses to those solutions, then we're able to more quickly and efficiently rectify the problem.
I really hope you come to understand this.
To be honest I didn't notice any extraordinary amounts of moaning. If anything there's been a lot of praise. Not sure what triggered this topic.
Perhaps you're perspective is a bit different and that is totally fine. However from the point I sit I see it at the point that I don't even want to show up here anymore because I know it's going to be nothing but regressive comments and cheap arguments that don't come close to solving anything.
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Free speech > Overly censored forums
Let people speak their minds and work on solving the things they're complaining about, they'll eventually get tired of shitting on eachother and get over it.
I have tried putting myself in a dev's shoes and all I see is people complaining about nerfs that are done based on assumptions or missing features which I as a QA member and player had been constantly telling everyone of how crucial them being on release was.
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A concept I am not surprised you fail to understand to be quite honest. You see you are actually entirely wrong and I will give you an example where elaborating and being constructive helps.
You see in reality moaning doesn't draw attention to the problem as it only causes massive fights and people get so wrapped up in the argument than they do the actual point. As we've seen in recent topics they quickly became about so much more than what the origin was about. There was so many points and content that was entirely irrelevant that it became impossible to decode what was contributing to the original point and what was purely excess that added no value. If people are more constructive and remain on point then we're able to quickly see the problem, see people's feedback, and see some suggested solutions and responses to those solutions, then we're able to more quickly and efficiently rectify the problem.
I really hope you come to understand this.
I actually do understand your point and obviously I do agree with you, but on certain cases you do require to bring attention, don't you? Constructive or not, its still moaning.
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Free speech > Overly censored forums
Let people speak their minds and work on solving the things they're complaining about, they'll eventually get tired of shitting on eachother and get over it.
This isn't censorship. We can trial censorship if you want to get a taste of what that is like.
As for your suggestion we tried that and it only grew worse and worse with no end in sight. It's not going to fix the problems when it itself is a problem. This is addressing the very problem of in itself. You see many people come on the forums and moan but haven't been in-game in ages. Why? Because it doesn't take any effort to come on here and complain and jump into a random shitstorm.
There is also no such thing as free speech. Just an FYI. No matter what country you live in or what freedom you think you have and don't have. Free speech is a mirage.
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I actually do understand your point and obviously I do agree with you, but on certain cases you do require to bring attention, don't you? Constructive or not, its still moaning.
I guess that is a fair enough point. In my perspective moaning is just complaining without any point or interest of making improvements. It's complaining for the sake of complaining. I guess in other's perspective it could be just suggesting things in a complaining manner. I will clarify again, this is only for people who complain without being constructive. It's really not much to ask for. We put a lot of work into this and we actually want constructive criticism, it helps us make this better for you. Nonconstructive criticism however just pushes us away.
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I am glad this point has been reached to be honest. Got some questions about it tho. As said above, moaning has a large meaning. When will something be counted as moaning and when won't it?
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I am glad this point has been reached to be honest. Got some questions about it tho. As said above, moaning has a large meaning. When will something be counted as moaning and when won't it?
When it's just aimless ranting that has no constructive value. Obviously, if someone is just sharing their thoughts it won't be a problem. We don't expect everyone to agree with everything we do and/or don't do. We are just tired of people constantly throwing around complaints with no intention of actually improving the state of things. There is a hefty majority of people who come on the forums just to get involved in arguments, degrade the quality of those possible discussions, and don't actually play the game. All we want is more solution-producing discussions on the problems people have. I cannot solve all the problems here on my own. The community needs to work as one to produce those solutions and work to achieving them.
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This isn't censorship. We can trial censorship if you want to get a taste of what that is like.
Handing out 1 month bans to those who speak of true shit no matter how whiny they seem is clearly a form of censorship.
You see many people come on the forums and moan but haven't been in-game in ages. Why? Because it doesn't take any effort to come on here and complain and jump into a random shitstorm.
Then make it clear to them, either get ingame and start playing or get the fuck out. These are the guys you should be shutting up, not active players.
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Handing out 1 month bans to those who speak of true shit no matter how whiny they seem is clearly a form of censorship.
I don't have time to be a babysitter. I quit being a teacher and working with kids 5 years ago because it was a broken system. It's not my job anymore and I have no intention of going back into it. If people have a problem they are free to express their truths. We will never stop that but if they are just going to complain and complain without any effort to actually contribute then they can kindly get the fuck out.
Then make it clear to them, either get ingame and start playing or get the fuck out. These are the guys you should be shutting up, not active players.
That is exactly what this topic is about. This won't limit active players from disagreeing or sharing their perspective on things in the slightest. As long as they are willing to help collectively in discussion then they are able to do so.
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I'd like to think most of the people who moan do have some good reason for it. (At least from their point of view). They shouldn't be criticising the hard work put in by the development team, but at the same time people should be able to state their own views.
It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.
A few grey areas to be addressed, but otherwise, fair enough.
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Then make it clear to them, either get ingame and start playing or get the fuck out. These are the guys you should be shutting up, not active players.
This sounds like a better plan in my eyes. Active players know what they talk about, a moan somewhere won't do any harm. People constantly moaning with no solutions, inactive players bullshitting and players continiously opening new moan topics are the worst part. No need to disallow suggestion topics, but moan and complain topics should be removed immediatly to avoid shitstorms.
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I don't have time to be a babysitter. I quit being a teacher and working with kids 5 years ago because it was a broken system. It's not my job anymore and I have no intention of going back into it. If people have a problem they are free to express their truths. We will never stop that but if they are just going to complain and complain without any effort to actually contribute then they can kindly get the fuck out.
Then why be naive enough to respond to them? Eventually everyone will get tired of their constant bitching and complaining and someone would tell them to shut the fuck up.
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This sounds like a better plan in my eyes. Active players know what they talk about, a moan somewhere won't do any harm. People constantly moaning with no solutions, inactive players bullshitting and players continiously opening new moan topics are the worst part. No need to disallow suggestion topics, but moan and complain topics should be removed immediatly to avoid shitstorms.
Indeed, though I am guilty myself of speaking on criminal topics I'm likely 3+ years out of date on... I think we should all spend time role playing the different roles to see how it goes. Would be interesting to see the FBI, SAPDs opinion on the difficulty of being a criminal after they've spent a couple of hours off duty (and of course vice versa)
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It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.
This is my main concern as well, and to be honest, I don't think there's an easy solution for this problem.
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I'd like to think most of the people who moan do have some good reason for it. (At least from their point of view). They shouldn't be criticising the hard work put in by the development team, but at the same time people should be able to state their own views.
It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.
A few grey areas to be addressed, but otherwise, fair enough.
I will reiterate: this is for the people who don't do it for a good reason. There is undeniably a population here which exists which are just a cancer. They show up just to feed into the drama which exists and have no intention of caring about a solution. Those people will standout clear for those of us who understand people.
There is indeed grey areas and we will indeed screw up here and there. We will get it wrong more than once. We will however work to rectify those incidents and people's willingness to talk after will be a clear demonstration of their actual intentions.
This sounds like a better plan in my eyes. Active players know what they talk about, a moan somewhere won't do any harm. People constantly moaning with no solutions, inactive players bullshitting and players continiously opening new moan topics are the worst part. No need to disallow suggestion topics, but moan and complain topics should be removed immediatly to avoid shitstorms.
As is, that is the point of this. Perhaps my wording was a bit poor. We are in no way going to restrict people from suggesting improvements, telling us what they don't like, telling us if they disagree with a choice, or in absolutely anyway stop people from being unable to voice their opinions.
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This is my main concern as well, and to be honest, I don't think there's an easy solution for this problem.
There is no system that can ever exist that would be 100% however a solution was needed. Since my only other solution at this point was to leave. An option I can still consider if people would prefer that over my simple wish to have more constructive conversions. I don't need to be here. I have had offers of paid positions in other gaming communities but I've repeatedly turned them down because I care about this one. I want to help make this one better. If it turns that's not what people want, I will gladly accept and resign. It's this or I am out. I am not dealing with it anymore. I cannot deal with it anymore.
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ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE POST SRY
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As is, that is the point of this. Perhaps my wording was a bit poor. We are in no way going to gestrikt people from suggesting improvements, telling us what they don't like, telling us if they disagree with a choice, or in absolutely anyway stop people from being unable to voice their opinions.
Was quite concerned about that indeed. Thanks for clearifying atleast. I still suggest to remove moan topics like we had in SA:MP general for the last 4/5 months. People who want to moan, should do it via PM or make a topic with solutions. Not just lock moan topics, but remove them.
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There is no system that can ever exist that would be 100% however a solution was needed. Since my only other solution at this point was to leave. An option I can still consider if people would prefer that over my simple wish to have more constructive conversions. I don't need to be here. I have had offers of paid positions in other gaming communities but I've repeatedly turned them down because I care about this one. I want to help make this one better. If it turns that's not what people want, I will gladly accept and resign. It's this or I am out. I am not dealing with it anymore. I cannot deal with it anymore.
If you found it easier, you could potentially recruit a few more forum moderators to clean the place up a bit so you don't have to. I mean at the end of the day, you're developing, coming up with new ideas and being webmaster. If people cannot relay feedback nicely and you're sick of it, let somebody else deal with it. Could be easier.
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Was quite concerned about that indeed. Thanks for clearifying atleast. I still suggest to remove moan topics like we had in SA:MP general for the last 4/5 months. People who want to moan, should do it via PM or make a topic with solutions. Not just lock moan topics, but remove them.
Yes, moan topics will be purged from the viewing range. Another fault of moaning topics is we want to expand and bring in new players. If you are a new player and you join the forums. You see 3+ different topics of nothing but complaining and nobody actually being constructive, is that really a community you want to be apart of? Probably not.
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It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.
Which is why servers create a clear list of rules and outlined punishments and leave little for admin's decision. This rules out many cases of "biased admins" and provides simpler enviornmwnts for players and admins.
Do this = Get this
Admin's "friend" does this = Gets same thing
I have recommended this a while back and it got implemented for bans, can't see why we shouldn't have it for other punishments.
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If you found it easier, you could potentially recruit a few more forum moderators to clean the place up a bit so you don't have to. I mean at the end of the day, you're developing, coming up with new ideas and being webmaster. If people cannot relay feedback nicely and you're sick of it, let somebody else deal with it. Could be easier.
The issue with this is I want to be involved. I am not like previous teams where ideas were mostly ignored. If you could see topic views you'd see I've read every single suggestion, every single complaint, and every post on them. You wouldn't've seen that with prior teams, in fact I can say with absolutely certainty the percentage of read was significantly less than 50% of suggestions, complaints, and responses. I don't want it filtered either, I don't want someone else to decide what I should and shouldn't read. I want read it all. I want to know what you guys like, I want to know what you guys don't like. That's the only way I feel I can do my job best. Anything less and I am not doing the best I can do with my position.
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Which is why servers create a clear list of rules and outlined punishments and leave little for admin's decision. This rules out many cases of "biased admins" and provides simpler enviornmwnts for players and admins.
Do this = Get this
Admin's "friend" does this = Gets same thing
I have recommended this a while back and it got implemented for bans, can't see why we shouldn't have it for other punishments.
This is not a system I would be against. Undeniably there are people who factor in relation into their punishments. It's not fair and it's not right.
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I'd suggest hiding all staff team identity IG to "Admin/Mod/Dev 1,2,..,n" etc to avoid that "biased admins" problem. Admins will be more relaxed into punishing (they wouldn't be scared to punish their friends) and players won't know who the hell punished/helped them. Plus I still ask to strongly focus on hearing out everyone before doing any kind of action against a person or a group instead just getting one sided story with biased manipulated evidences and create more heat against staff team.
/me heads back to his cave again resuming the long inactivity.
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I'd suggest hiding all staff team identity IG to "Admin/Mod/Dev 1,2,..,n" etc to avoid that "biased admins" problem. Admins will be more relaxed into punishing (they wouldn't be scared to punish their friends) and players won't know who the hell punished/helped them. Plus I still strongly ask to focus on hearing out everyone before doing any kind of action against a person or a group instead just getting one sided story with biased manipulated evidences and create more heat against staff team.
/me heads back to his cave again resuming the long inactivity.
What if you do not understand the punishment? How will you contact the anonymous staff member?
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Plus I still ask to strongly focus on hearing out everyone before doing any kind of action against a person or a group instead just getting one sided story with biased manipulated evidences and create more heat against staff team.
Happens too much and I honestly consider this as the main source that's creating the moaning and complaints.
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It's all about context, discussion and clarification.
For example, I was banned a long time back for "weapon hacking." I hadn't actually done it, and had no idea why I was banned for this, as weapons had randomly spawned on my player ingame. The banning admin did not discuss anything with me, and banned me without any investigation. A long while afterwards I was unbanned, and the a few months later it was revealed that the ASI/CLEO modification had a bug which caused this sometimes. This was a mod allowed on Argonath... had the admin have actually bothered discussing this with me before banning then they'd have found out sooner. This happened whilst I had been playing on the server for a few years, so as you can imagine I was pretty shocked that the admin hadn't PM'd me to ask what was happening.
The point is, yep, people should be punished the same, without bias, but also based on context (the player being banned was a regular), extra discussion should take place to clarify the situation. Or else you end up alienating community members.
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What if you do not understand the punishment? How will you contact the anonymous staff member?
HQ of course knows its staff members and with the help of logs, a report through forums or [email protected] would do the magic.
Instead of applying a policy against who moan why not just cut the source of moaning itself?
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Happens too much and I honestly consider this as the main source that's creating the moaning and complaints.
I do believe this to be true to a degree but also understand the nature of administration. They don't have logs and they do have other priorities on the server other than to spend hours investigating a single incident. They are there to act if that be removing troublesome players or aiding a player in a timely manner. While also admittedly some people do misuse and we're slowly becoming more restrictive to prevent it.
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Instead of applying a policy against who moan why not just cut the source of moaning itself?
How does one see the source when it is covered up by so much shit and arguments? I don't think you understand the point. The point of this is so we can identify the source quicker, and see how people think it's best to rectify it. Take a look at this topic for example. I think it's the first in a while were every single post has some constructive value. Also take notice at those watching the topic but not replying who would normally be replying with nonconstructive comments. We can see it's effectiveness already taking shape.
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I do believe this to be true to a degree but also understand the nature of administration. They don't have logs and they do have other priorities on the server other than to spend hours investigating a single incident. They are there to act if that be removing troublesome players or aiding a player in a timely manner. While also admittedly some people do misuse and we're slowly becoming more restrictive to prevent it.
Yes. I think that the removal of punishments should be re-put back though just in case the punishing administrator does take a wrong punishment back.
EDIT: Log for a quick chat on skype when you're free by the way.
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Yes. I think that the removal of punishments should be re-put back though just in case the punishing administrator does take a wrong punishment back.
That is something I think we can accommodate as it was partly implemented but never finished.
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I really hope that I am not considered one of the players that moan as I have personally brought up suggestions in a more mature way and rather been supporting the developers as I understand they are bringing a product to us for free to enjoy. Personally, I am working as an assistant sales mananger and if there is something I have learned, then it is that the best sales man has bigger ears than a bigger mouth. While intelligence speaks, wisdom listens.
Let me suggest that, if a farmer sees a tree that is unhealthy, he doesn't look at the branches to diagnose it. He looks at the root. So like that farmer we must look at the root of Argonath to diagnose it, and not to the branches of RS5. Not to the branches of cops and criminals. We are the root. We are the foundation. This is the generation of Argonath that shapes what Argonath will look like in the future. We should not let this be a standalone decision by the veterans and owners. It is up to us to take care of Argonath, not Gandalf, not Aragorn, not Teddy, but all of us.
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I really hope that I am not considered one of the players that moan as I have personally brought up suggestions in a more mature way and rather been supporting the developers as I understand they are bringing a product to us for free to enjoy. Personally, I am working as an assistant sales mananger and if there is something I have learned, then it is that the best sales man has bigger ears than a bigger mouth. While intelligence speaks, wisdom listens.
Let me suggest that, if a farmer sees a tree that is unhealthy, he doesn't look at the branches to diagnose it. He looks at the root. So like that farmer we must look at the root of Argonath to diagnose it, and not to the branches of RS5. Not to the branches of cops and criminals. We are the root. We are the foundation. This is the generation of Argonath that shapes what Argonath will look like in the future. We should not let this be a standalone decision by the veterans and owners. It is up to us to take care of Argonath, not Gandalf, not Aragorn, not Teddy, but all of us.
The constructive quality of this post only shows that you are not one of the players that just moan without value. I also really do like the way you worded that example. An excellent way of putting it.
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I really hope that I am not considered one of the players that moan as I have personally brought up suggestions in a more mature way and rather been supporting the developers as I understand they are bringing a product to us for free to enjoy. Personally, I am working as an assistant sales mananger and if there is something I have learned, then it is that the best sales man has bigger ears than a bigger mouth. While intelligence speaks, wisdom listens.
Let me suggest that, if a farmer sees a tree that is unhealthy, he doesn't look at the branches to diagnose it. He looks at the root. So like that farmer we must look at the root of Argonath to diagnose it, and not to the branches of RS5. Not to the branches of cops and criminals. We are the root. We are the foundation. This is the generation of Argonath that shapes what Argonath will look like in the future. We should not let this be a standalone decision by the veterans and owners. It is up to us to take care of Argonath, not Gandalf, not Aragorn, not Teddy, but all of us.
I haven't seen you moan as such. Your topic about redesigning suspections seems quite well thought through and is definitely constructive.
Difficult to get the root, as the players I guess we're all roots, just a few people changing their attitude and outlook can make the difference between "the occasional moan" and "regular moaning"
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How does one see the source when it is covered up by so much shit and arguments? I don't think you understand the point. The point of this is so we can identify the source quicker, and see how people think it's best to rectify it. Take a look at this topic for example. I think it's the first in a while were every single post has some constructive value. Also take notice at those watching the topic but not replying who would normally be replying with nonconstructive comments. We can see it's effectiveness already taking shape.
I have to agree that people get scared if they get threatened to be blocked from doing something, 1 month ban is annoying if you ask me. :lol:
But anyways, by the time it will stay like this and then what? By the time the staff will start to forget applying this policy or be lenient without even realising and we go back to zero again. Discussions like this would be the best to identify the source of moaning but with the right people of course, not a random guy who's mad that a new player stole his weed. Just focus on what I mentioned on the previous post (I mentioned it before countless of times but still meh) and of course on what the others have said.
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I have to agree that people get scared if they get threatened to be blocked from doing something, 1 month ban is annoying if you ask me. :lol:
But anyways, by the time it will stay like this and then what? By the time the staff will start to forget applying this policy or be lenient without even realising and we go back to zero again. Discussions like this would be the best to identify the source of moaning but with the right people of course, not a random guy who's mad that a new player stole his weed. Just focus on what I mentioned on the previous post (I mentioned it before countless of times but still meh) and of course on what the others have said.
The only people who should get scared are the one's who keep refreshing this and are upset their fun times of shit posting are over. There will no more leniency on rules. We have too frequently had this problem and now we have a solution. Replace staff. If the staff cannot consistently and fairly do their job, they won't have a job to do here anymore.
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The only people who should get scared are the one's who keep refreshing this and are upset their fun times of shit posting are over. There will no more leniency on rules. We have too frequently had this problem and now we have a solution. Replace staff. If the staff cannot consistently and fairly do their job, they won't have a job to do here anymore.
Just make sure to hear both sides and check both evidences before doing anything as it would just create more problems (btw I am not referring to dealing the ig cases, I am referring to the behind the scenes reports and actions that happen to be sent by butthurts, manipulating as much as they can the evidences they have to win. Staff team IG should deal with what it sees and if there is any mistake it should be dealt behind the scenes by hearing both sides like I said.), you can't extinguish fire with fire.
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Let me suggest that, if a farmer sees a tree that is unhealthy, he doesn't look at the branches to diagnose it. He looks at the root. So like that farmer we must look at the root of Argonath to diagnose it, and not to the branches of RS5. Not to the branches of cops and criminals. We are the root. We are the foundation. This is the generation of Argonath that shapes what Argonath will look like in the future. We should not let this be a standalone decision by the veterans and owners. It is up to us to take care of Argonath, not Gandalf, not Aragorn, not Teddy, but all of us.
The constructive quality of this post only shows that you are not one of the players that just moan without value. I also really do like the way you worded that example. An excellent way of putting it.
Even if I tell you he just copy-pasted it?
Anyway, most of moaning starts in /p. If you want to reduce moaning, reduce usage of /p.
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Anyway, most of moaning starts in /p. If you want to reduce moaning, reduce usage of /p.
I really wish we didn't see so much in /p, seeing so much in /p means there's less going on in /me /l /s/ etc. :(
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To me, a popular /p chat is indicative of a healthy and busy server. Dealing with moaning in /p on a case by case basis going forward is the most effective solution in my opinion.
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To be honest, I do understand why Jones left the community in the first place. All the credz to you and the rest of the developers, Ted.
Sad we can't go grow the fuck up from the moaning. I just hope it's just a phase, and then y'all be feeling better. Mostly important, I do hope it doesn't impact your mental health, nor your health in general.