Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: The_Wolf on February 26, 2009, 10:05:09 am
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Hello, dear SA:MP players.
Since there has been a lot of discussions that SA:MP lacks roleplay and SA:MP has problem with this and that, I decided to go there and play for a week, without anyone knowing who I am and what I was doing.
I was using a "firstname_lastname" nick and a completely new account, from which nobody could understand it is me. I will not mention my nick while I was doing the research, but I am sure some would figure out who it was, since I almost revealed myself a couple of times.
Here is what I experienced...
1. I got called three times in private message "noob" by regular player.
2. I was a couple of times disrespected, treated like a lower form of life, by a regular.
3. I was told what to do in roleplay situation, like I was a "dog" and had to do exactly what I was being told, else I would have been called a non-roleplayer or again a noob.
4. I was never abused by an admin or insulted by an admin, when I requested help several people helped me very kindly, which I thank them for.
5. Some players guided me in what to do (in a polite way) when I was a freecop, how to suspect, how to use my police rights, etcetera.
My conclusion...
I think that the problem with freecops is that regular players are treating them like NOTHING. Like a bulgarian tale says: "What you called for, you shall recieve" - if everybody treats new players (and especially freecops) like garbage and underestimates their skill, ability and creativity it is normal that they will abuse, deathmatch and then leave server.
It is VERY important the way how you would treat the freecop, how you would talk to him, act with him and roleplay with him. Telling someone what to do in roleplay, yelling at him, insulting him and ignoring him would only cause more trouble rather than solve any.
If you give respect - you get respect, this is the situation. If you respect the players and don't treat them like garbage, they will not abuse you or deathmatch you without a reason.
You should understand why the most important rule in server is to respect other players, because this creates harmony and understanding between players and makes the roleplay more fun, not only fighting and trying to "own" the other guy, which is completely stupid. If you want to go on server just to argue or create big fights - just go and fight with someone in real life, not ruin the atmosphere in server and interrupt other people's fun...
I have made a couple of more conclusions and I would rather keeping them for myself, but one thing I also saw. Server has not changed, scripts has not changed, players changed. I saw that administration is doing their best to keep the situation in server calm, nice and friendly. Some regulars fought a lot over main chat, I once decided to involve myself in an argument over main chat and a player started telling me that he is playing more time than me and knows all, while I am a new player and don't have any idea about community.
This is not a correct attitude in my eyes, players should not parade with the fact they've played longer and are regulars...
:ps: By the way, I saw some freecops that were roleplaying better than me even, having in mind that I am a roleplayer since almost two years and I have a lot of experience. My point is that if you give them a chance, they could prove they are worth being involved in a roleplay situation and a good one...
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True words, Agent.
I think that the problem with freecops is that regular players are treating them like NOTHING. Like a bulgarian tale says: "What you called for, you shall recieve" - if everybody treats new players (and especially freecops) like garbage and underestimates their skill, ability and creativity it is normal that they will abuse, deathmatch and then leave server.
Yeh this is everyday for several cops, mostly because of the "rare" new freecops, who have DMed, abused as a freecop, just because they haven't known how to play on this server. This has eventually caused the "fear" in several police officers, that they ignore them, refuse to roleplay with them and don't help them if they ask for it.
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I agree with you there. I often see that people try to avoid freecops, rather than help teach them the basics and how to RP. To be honest, there are many freecops who are at various levels and understanding, but many players seem to have the impression that all freecops are abusers and don't know how to RP just because of their status/rank. So even though a certain freecop might be a great RPer, players will have no respect or trust in him just because of his rank? Well that's from my observations (and Legend's) anyway.
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I actually regret having run away from a freecop once, but I was stressed, on taxi duty. And felt unfairly treated.
You do however, learn new things everyday. Right?
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Hello, dear SA:MP players.
Since there has been a lot of discussions that SA:MP lacks roleplay and SA:MP has problem with this and that, I decided to go there and play for a week, without anyone knowing who I am and what I was doing.
I was using a "firstname_lastname" nick and a completely new account, from which nobody could understand it is me. I will not mention my nick while I was doing the research, but I am sure some would figure out who it was, since I almost revealed myself a couple of times.
Here is what I experienced...
1. I got called three times in private message "noob" by regular player.
2. I was a couple of times disrespected, treated like a lower form of life, by a regular.
3. I was told what to do in roleplay situation, like I was a "dog" and had to do exactly what I was being told, else I would have been called a non-roleplayer or again a noob.
4. I was never abused by an admin or insulted by an admin, when I requested help several people helped me very kindly, which I thank them for.
5. Some players guided me in what to do (in a polite way) when I was a freecop, how to suspect, how to use my police rights, etcetera.
I have made a couple of more conclusions and I would rather keeping them for myself, but one thing I also saw. Server has not changed, scripts has not changed, players changed.
The points you listed, I'm sure every free cop experienced them, even if they started playing today, last week or a year ago. I got called 'noob' dozen times during my free cop stage, or not 'suitable for investigation', .. . So that hasn't changed IMO.
Which thing has changed (again IMO), is the relation between cops and non cops. As cop I find that their are to many gangs, and I can believe that gangs find that their are to many cops. Both is true, and both sides got to do something about it. You got abusing free cops, but you also got abusing gang members..
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Hm.. I remember when I was a freecop, some people told me to f*ck off when I tried to pull them over. Then I suspected them and they started shouting ABUSE! in /p.
However, there are also lots of friendly and good players here (like Nexxt).
However, I can be a douche sometime. If I act like that, then I don't care who I bitch at. I don't see a huge difference between a newbie and a regular. Like Legend, I have seen freecops who roleplay WAY better than some of the regulars. (Plater, Andy as a freecop.)
There are 2 kinds of newbies:
Those who ruin roleplay and don't listen to people and those who want to learn and play.
I have tried to go "undercover" also, but most of the times I have failed.
I didn't get called "noob" once when I was a new player, though.
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However, there are also lots of friendly and good players here (like Nexxt).
LOL, Thank you.
Legend, that is one of the reason why I like to be SAPD Academy Teacher ;)
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i dont think im one of the person in your story, not good or bad side,
personally i dont say noob to persons, unless they abuse as hell
if there is someone asking for help i do help him if im near him,
not often but still
and a freecop that /su or pull over,
is always seen as abuser for some reason
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i dont think im one of the person in your story, not good or bad side,
personally i dont say noob to persons, unless they abuse as hell
if there is someone asking for help i do help him if im near him,
not often but still
and a freecop that /su or pull over,
is always seen as abuser for some reason
Exactly , doesn't matter if he is right or wrong... people will still moaning and saying abuse...
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Of course the freecops will get treated like idiots when there are many cases that there are freecops acting like idiots..
For example:
On day 1, someone shout in the /m: Pull over now or i shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!
You pull over, they suspect you for speeding, and they shoot you on the spot.
On day 2, a freecop is chasing you and he shouts in /m: Pull over, or I will use lethal force!
You pull over and get ticketed a 100 for speeding.
Without thinking about it, your mood changes to the worse and your subconciousness reacts on the freecop, even though he did nothing wrong. You connect two things that are bad for you, without them having anything to do with eachother. The freecop from day 1 made you angry, and when another freecop on day 2 ticket you, you get angry at him too, with some emotions that came from the situation with the freecop on day one.
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I personally don't think that people hate freecops as in them being freecops, it's simply just pissing you off when you get "abused" five times by the same freecop. I don't like the option for every player to become a cop, and it has to do with the players that make freecops look bad.
When you call a freecop that did a small mistake "Fucking freecop", you don't call an officer or even higher that makes the same mistake "Fucking officer" or anything like that. It's easier to accept it, for a reason I don't know, but maybe it has something to do with that you don't want to be pissed off at, or they to be pissed off at you, a known player from [AV], [WS] or anyother known clan, or people that you know are popular.
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I also think that the copban in RS4.0 might solve a bit of this problem, since freecops that has no idea on how to make the police work can get their rights to work as one removed.
Marco_Stracci, once a freecop, but not again.
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Its hard to say, but your desicsion was not that unexpected...
And thats not good...
By the way, I saw some freecops that were roleplaying better than me even, having in mind that I am a roleplayer since almost two years and I have a lot of experience. My point is that if you give them a chance, they could prove they are worth being involved in a roleplay situation and a good one...
Please, all read that one very careful!!
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some new cops come from other RP server and do it good,
there are enough promising freecops,
but sadly enough also a lot of abusing freecops
as magnus said: copban will solve a lot
but the bad times will be reminded more then the good one,
also if you see someone RP good as cop, light blue,
everyone think: cadet, since they see freecop cant be good,
so every good cop is at least cadet
i dont say its wrong to hate some freecops,
the big abusers which i really hate too,
but dont see them all as the same, freecops can be good also
:ps: whats wrong with $100 fine for speeding?
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Once again I will say it - Call for shit and you will recieve shit! How do you know that those freecops were not already provoked, called noobs and even deathmatched by other players?
This is also a point of view, freecops start feeling "small" in community and ignored, so they start abusing and shooting people for money so they could become more rich, more famous and respected.
Everything that happens and all of their actions are provoked by a reason or a person, do not forget that! If he shoots you, don't shoot back, try to explain him that it's not correct and he should not do it...
During this week I've played, I made a lot of friends among freecops, many of them excellent roleplayers and good personalities on server and even outside it, I chat on MSN with some of them...
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When I was a freecop once, and then sus'ed someone for ramming me and not obeying traffic rules, he just shouted "omg omg abuseabuse!!!please unsus!!". I didnt said anything cause I thinked if this player cant RP and take punishment, then screw him, its his problem.
So it's basically comes automatic: If a freecop sus'es you, then its abuse. Not for all, but for some.
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When I was a freecop once, and then sus'ed someone for ramming me and not obeying traffic rules, he just shouted "omg omg abuseabuse!!!please unsus!!". I didnt said anything cause I thinked if this player cant RP and take punishment, then screw him, its his problem.
So it's basically comes automatic: If a freecop sus'es you, then its abuse. Not for all, but for some.
Yes, some of the regular players actually take advantage of their status (senior in the community) and admins trust them more, this way they avoid freecops' suspection.
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Yes, some of the regular players actually take advantage of their status (senior in the community) and admins trust them more, this way they avoid freecops' suspection.
Exactly what I was thinking. Cause they are senior, better known than freecops (some freecops, most), and mostly they would be the side of the victim, cause more people will believe that they are older in the server, means they are "likely" to say the truth.
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most of times the officers and + are right,
and i dont know any who abuses that while saying abuse
and @ legend some post back
shit means shit back, strange,
you blame everyone that freecops are abuser?
we(all none freecops in Argonath) cause them to abuse?
thats nonsense, a freecop is an abuser or not an abuser,
and he wont change in it, well not in the bad way,
so dont put the blame on the other players, the blame is at the freecops,
they abuse, and we dont make them abuse(im talking to abuser freecops, not the good ones)
if you abuse you will probably be warned and told about rules(helped)
but if you continue abusing then you will be called noob yes
so conclusion of all of the topic:
-dont blame all freecops for mistakes of others, some freecops are really good RPers
-dont blame others for making them abuse
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Once again I will say it - Call for shit and you will recieve shit! How do you know that those freecops were not already provoked, called noobs and even deathmatched by other players?
[...]
Nice words... and in 95% of the cases true...
Exactly what I was thinking. Cause they are senior, better known than freecops (some freecops, most), and mostly they would be the side of the victim, cause more people will believe that they are older in the server, means they are "likely" to say the truth.
This players must received a note at least, from higher ranked officers (chief/dep. chief).
Don't forget one rule of Argo:
Respect A L L players!
You'll see, we can do better!
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Everything that happens and all of their actions are provoked by a reason or a person, do not forget that!
I disagree, they could be shooting you for no reason if they do not know the rules - how to ask surrender, problems in real life and take out on player and a plethora of other reasons. I don't think you can sum up their reason to break rules a lot of the time because there are so many reasons and provocation is not the only one. They do get provoked sometimes - But it's not always the reason in a lot of the cases i see, in my opinion.
I agree with most of your points though and agree some of them, a lot of Freecops can roleplay very well. And i also hate these two things:
- People prejudging whole groups because of the bad behavior of some.
- People who have been here longer and consider themselves as 'Veterans' acting as if new players are inferior to them, and treat them like shit.
But i agree with magnus that a lot of the times certain freecops act like idiots and abuse and DM. But in these cases i would rather see people report and complain about the Freecop involved rather than rant on the mainchat about Freecops as a whole, saying things like 'Freecops are noobs' 'Fucking freecops abusers'.
Nice words... and in 95% of the cases true...
Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.
~ Homer Simpson
:P
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i gotta agree to Niall,
about his 2 points he made,
and als the disagree on Legend:
all actions of them are provoked by someone,
which means every time someone abuses its because someone
did something to that guy,
ever thought that not all players are good? that it also comes from themselves,
legend lays the button to much at the ''bad'' other players,
like they do it all wrong, and freecops do everything good
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i gotta agree to Niall,
about his 2 points he made,
and als the disagree on Legend:
all actions of them are provoked by someone,
which means every time someone abuses its because someone
did something to that guy,
ever thought that not all players are good? that it also comes from themselves,
legend lays the button to much at the ''bad'' other players,
like they do it all wrong, and freecops do everything good
If a certain freecop or new player abuses, deathmatches and acts like an idiot on server - he will get called a noob, a fucker, a rulebreaker and etcetera. BUT if you try explaining to him what he has done wRONg and how he can correct himself and get accepted to the server, I am almost sure that next time he would not do that!
Instead of only complaining and calling the guys idiots, you can explain to them what is wrong and what is correct, how to do what and why. I was an so called "idiot" when I started playing on Argonath, but then came Aragorn and Carhartt and explained me all about being a cop... Look at me now, am I an abusive deathmatching freecop? No...
There are cases that deathmatchng is NOT provoked by regular players, but those cases are not seen alot in server. If you start calling a freecop noob and shouting him in PM instead of explaning him the rules, he will come back and shoot your ass, if smarter - suspect you first and then shoot your ass. So I cannot understand what you are arguing about here.
Indeed there are cases where freecops don't even want to learn, but in those cases admins get involved and clear the air up, but those cases are not a lot, believe me...
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Yes, some of the regular players actually take advantage of their status (senior in the community) and admins trust them more, this way they avoid freecops' suspection.
This is soo true..
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Anyone who becomes a freecop already has found how to enter the PD and go on duty. If someone explained that to them, they might take the courtesy to explain some simple rules.
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if i help someone to get on duty, i always tell the ARPD site too,
for all rules of the cop work
and today i got busted also :P, an officer acted like he was new
to see if freecops really get seen as dirt, he asked me for help,
he really did it good, acting like not knowing /l
then you really dont look after some officers who tries to test you,
well i never think of players that they are anyway.
i helped him though :P
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It's not about blaming anyone, what do you expect?
Someone that never knew how to RP, and that played GTA SA in Singeplayer, where you most of the time drive around and kill people, comes on Argonath. He writes in mainchat "How to be a cop?", and someone answers "Go to a Police Station, go down to the cells and type /duty. He says "Thanks". When he after time finds a Police Station, LSPD for example, since alot of people often stand there, he enters it, runs around inside it and somehow get on duty. "Cool, I got deagle now". He walks outside. He finds a HPV-1000 and hops on it. He sees that alot of other cops is chasing a guy with orange name, so he follows him. After some time, the guy with the orange name stops, gets out from the car, and starts running. Guys with darkblue names shoots after him. The guy with the orange name suddenly stops, and puts his hands in the air. The new cop shoots him in the head with the deagle, and he gets 300$. "Nice!" he thinks. He goes on with killing every other guy (or trying) that has an orange name. After some time, he gets warned and kicked for killing surrendered suspects. This was maybe three-four hours after he joined Argonath. He wonders what he did wrong, so he rejoins and asks the admin that kicked him what he did wrong. He explains it, and the freecop gets it.
This is exactly what happened when I joined Argonath the first time. The suspects I killed when being surrendered got pissed. The Officers that spent long time chasing the suspects and looking forward to RP jailing and interrogating the suspect got pissed. People that needed help from the admin that spent time explaining for me what to do didn't get admin help fast, and they got pissed at the admins.
See? Just because I could be a cop with practicly free weapons without having a clue about anything, I both pissed people that was RPing off, and made the admin that helped me spend time explaining alot of things.
There is a really easy way to prevent this. Make it impossible to join in as a freecop as soon as you join the server, and that you have to sign up for being a cadet before you can start chasing criminals. This will also make sure that you read and understand the rules of the server.
Thanks for reading,
Marco Stracci
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I personally give all freecops a chance, but when I told them not to shoot surrendered, standing still suspects etc and they still do it... You can guess what, I'll ignore them for a while. And sometimes I kinda flip a little to freecops (when they did something against ARPD rules/guides), but just when... Let's say in some cases.
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That is the problem, instead of actually telling people what they should do as cops, some people just say "/enter, then do /duty in a small room on your left". And when those new cops start shooting at them, they just yell: "Aaah, another DMer, ban him! He can't RP!" ...
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Why not have some arpd officers wait around at lspd and offer to help these freecops with some basic training, to get them started.
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Wel the Problem i always have with Freecops who are new The do not Listen and if you Trie to stop them the wil shoot at you it happend to me so many times .....
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Why not have some arpd officers wait around at lspd and offer to help these freecops with some basic training, to get them started.
do you think we got nothing better to do then stand in front of LSPD?
dont understand me wrong, we do help them,
but if we are at LSPD only, we wont just stand there wait for new ppl
@DHR
yeah thats right,
but the ppl in this topic seems to think that all freecops are good, and all others are bad,
they do everything good, its us who makes them bad
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yeah thats right,
but the ppl in this topic seems to think that all freecops are good, and all others are bad,
they do everything good, its us who makes them bad
No, I am afraid you undertsood me wrong. I never said that all of them are good, but the thing is that MOST of their actions are being provoked by other people's behavior towards them and that's what you should understand.
They are people and players just like you are, so you must respect this fact and treat them as ones. If you would do that, I am very sure you'd have less problems with them. Same goes for all SA:MP players...
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Anyone who becomes a freecop already has found how to enter the PD and go on duty. If someone explained that to them, they might take the courtesy to explain some simple rules.
This is a known issue and I hope to try and encourage this from SAPD officers, and also any other players who are willing to listen...
Even a criminal can be a good help to a new cop... after all we were ALL new once ! (July 2007!)
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... after all we were ALL new once ! (July 2007!)
This is what I was telling a guy the other day, he said get rid of freecops, and new players, and I told him, you were once a new player, how would you feel if you were not allowed to do anything.
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No, I am afraid you undertsood me wrong. I never said that all of them are good, but the thing is that MOST of their actions are being provoked by other people's behavior towards them and that's what you should understand.
They are people and players just like you are, so you must respect this fact and treat them as ones. If you would do that, I am very sure you'd have less problems with them. Same goes for all SA:MP players...
oke then, for me it looks like you just act like all freecops are good
being a good or a bad cop how do ppl get to one of those sides?
the ppl who really want to RP, and also as cop they do there best and are the good cops
the ppl who arent actually RPers, and also not very interested as cop are the bad cops,
and this isnt brought by others,
its in them already, you dont change from very interested cop into a monster for us all
ppl wont change that big because of that.
although it is right that flaming them will or increase there abuse,
or lower there good playing, but that doesnt got a that big influence as said in here
if you see someone new as cop you can see within a day if he will become a good cop,
a good cop shows interest, and is really willing to listen and learn,
and if its an abuser you will see very fast, coming with things like: lets hunt them down!
and as CBF said:
ofc we try to encourage that behaviour, but it doesnt have to come from our side alone,
the freecop side should do there best and listen also,
sometimes you are shouting at a guy for half an hour how to enter,you say type /enter
but he just doesnt get it,
at that moments you get really pissed off, and will just walk away
and yes this has happened to me before
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As an FBI Agent (and trial moderator... though that doesnt change a thing), I try to help any Freecop who comes to me and asks me for help. I dont look down on Freecops at all, since when I was still an SAPD Cadet I encountered really good Freecops like Pixy, Smey, and Rint_Daw.
It is very rare I encounter freecops who willingly steal FBI Ranchers even after being told they are not supposed to use them or turn deaf ears to the rules or DM Officers.
The problem here is that people remember the 3 out of 100 times when the freecop abused instead of the 97 times when the freecop was trying to learn and become a good cop, this is especially true with regular players!
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I never really got any issues with freecops..
If ever I was abused by one (prior to being an admin), then I'd shoot them in the head and run away. People who cry abuse are irritating as hell, especially those who probably were actually committing a crime.
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@JDC's big message
thats true yes, although freecops abuse more then you say there,
but ppl do remember the bad things, but the good things are forgotten fast
@panda
if you say abuse when it really is abuse then i can understand,
but yeah when they cry abuse when they really did a crime, then its so annoying,
and there are enough ppl who do that,
luckily most admins dont unsus them if its clearly not abuse, some do though
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@JDC's big message
thats true yes, although freecops abuse more then you say there,
but ppl do remember the bad things, but the good things are forgotten fast
Is this why you keep arguing in this topic.. ?
You want to make freecops look like abusers, but are you actually forgetting they are new players or something?
Abusers, abusers, bowrocks. Most of the freecops use the /su command a lot, because nobody told them what else they can use and how could they use it.
Also, I have NEVER seen a freecop that is not interested in playing as he should after I explained him the rules, guides and what he should do. I usually even patrolled with freecops before and told them how to manage diffrent situation, I never experienced a player who did not listen to me (for like more than a year). So I don't know how you can prove your point that most freecops don't want to listen, I think that's not true.
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Why not have some arpd officers wait around at lspd and offer to help these freecops with some basic training, to get them started.
I love that idea!
@ JDC big message: Eum... not 100% true. But I agree on he fact that you can remember 'bad things' better than 'good stuff', because the 'Good stuff' is 'normal'... ;)
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@legend
no thats not it, i dont want to make them look bad,
since they are the future in the ARPD
its just that you show them all as great players
and i also tell them all the guides first, i help them when i can,
and also i agreed with JDC's message which said 10/100 are bad,
but that gets remembered,
so no i dont think most are abusers
and i have had it multiple times, you help a new cop how to do it good,
and later he gets warned/kicked/banned for copabuse
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mmm sadly enough i have encounterd 1 of the bad boys today,
carjacking and stealing, and then dumping your car all around the city and takes civil car then,
shooting on other cops, flaming other cops, lieing
although i have also seen a promosing one
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Hmm..Legend...i think that is not we treat Freecop/New player......This is the problem we treat a person..
Someone is just being nice to higher rank . Some not...As u said before, there is still someon who try to help ..and there is still a part being rude, That's what we called Asslicker.
I don't see any Problem with that, or i should say that is not a big deal.
Coz, Even IRl, u will be (bullyed), or treated unfairly.That is some kind of weakness of human.
You are not higher than me, so i can order , and disrespect you .. You Must listen to me
TBH I do think that, or even do that , i doubt if anyone of you don't . Maybe it show my selfishness, but i think that is nature habbit for human
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This is exactly why I left.
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Now I haven't bothered to read everything..
Freecops has been shaped by regular players, simple as that.
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/me thinks about what is said above
shaped by regulars, so to be exact you mean that all bad things of a freecop,
are brought to him by regulars,
so you are also saying rulebreakers/abusers dont exist,
since when they come they are great cops, but once they see a regular,
they turn into big mad beasts abusing all on there path?
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Ive seen freecops that dont know any better and make mistakes. Ive also seen them abuse for fun or when they are angry. And in the past 3 weeks I probroly saw about 5 non accidental abuses from freecops. So they arent as bad as what they are put out to be. But regular players just say they abuse to they dont have to deal with it. Since admins are more likely to punish a freecop then an ARPD member, since ARPD members have more experience and training and can be punished by their superiors (not like freecops).
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It’s imperative to support our peers in developing, constructing and embracing co-operative roleplays where all parties involved will be satisfied accordingly.
Legend has highlighted some significant points which should be flagged and raised as a community risk.
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/me thinks about what is said above
shaped by regulars, so to be exact you mean that all bad things of a freecop,
are brought to him by regulars,
so you are also saying rulebreakers/abusers dont exist,
since when they come they are great cops, but once they see a regular,
they turn into big mad beasts abusing all on there path?
I'm not sure I understand what the heck you are talking about.
We, regulars, shaped freecops. Gave freecops the image they've got today. Abusive, morons, dmers, and what else you call them.
You don't stop to think about the freecops who are actually trying, just making mistakes. Only beacause he made a mistake, and happens to be a freecop, he's automatically the things I said above.
Kinda like the saying, "don't judge a book by it's cover". Only we are. This does not go out to all regular players of course.
And of course there's just abusive people, who happens to be the first stage cop "level", a freecop aswell, but you'd be surprised to realize how many is actually.. trying.
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Newb rulebreakers are generally users that think the server is a DM server, or that don't understand the rules.
It's the ***holes and hackers that usually come in trying to purposely cause chaos in the server.
And yes, those who are freecops that purposely break the rules, are the ones that fall into the category of ***holes. :)
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I have just came back to the server as I have decided last year to leave Argonath because of the disrespect of other players towards me. Being a freecop, I was treated as a noob, being a taxi driver, totally as a "Bullsh..." and even abused by other cadet cops, while, in contrast, the admins were very polite to me. You know, I've promised myself I would never play on this server again. Finally I've come back yesterday, and I hope the situation have improved at least a little bit.
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If you won't abuse yourself, and will obide the ARPD rules, no one will think about you as a noob or anything. Of course, some are too greedy to lose 300 or 600 to some freecop, so they use it.
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??? Look, I've obided the ARPD rules, and I was the one who never tried to kill the suspect. I've rarely seen a Cadet who would take to prison a suspect, mostly they would kill them, even if he was innocent and would give himself up. And you know, there where also many cadets who put fire on my cabby without any reason, it seems that the fact that it is a RPG server, hasn't got into their mind.
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??? Look, I've obided the ARPD rules, and I was the one who never tried to kill the suspect. I've rarely seen a Cadet who would take to prison a suspect, mostly they would kill them, even if he was innocent and would give himself up. And you know, there where also many cadets who put fire on my cabby without any reason, it seems that the fact that it is a RPG server, hasn't got into their mind.
You got a point there, but keep in mind that No One is the same person. neither their minds.
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I know, unfortunately this kind of people can't find a better way to kill boredom...
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Hello
The thing you are saying its quite true Legend and ufortuanly the Cadets we got in the server are getting the wrong treatment, I have been playing as a cadet for some days and have been witnessed that Cadets are getting the lowest treatment. Regulars are keeping them out for RP scenes because of possible they can ruin the scene, but some cadets are quite good RPers ( I've met some cadets that has some experience into RPG Mode ). It cannot be true that Regulars are treating the cadets in this way, I feel sorry for the cadets that we got ingame as it shall not be true they deserve this.
And yes, some cadets may be abusing stuff but thats pretty normal in my eyes as they are new in the server, they need help getting to know the server itself and our rules, its not going to help if some just talk down to the Cadets instead of helping them and I know it can be hard teaching a Cadet something as maybe he eaven dosen't speak English.
And Mac_Gyver, your statement is pretty false as I have seen MANY cadets jailing suspects and before that they write the criminal's data down at the computer, I am a dispacther under the name "Douglas_Hawkins" and that means I sit inside the LSPD and just talk with radio, with that job I also witness many cadets going duty and off duty, but also that cadets are jailing suspects not only killing them.
How should RPG get in thier mind if they are getting this treatment by regular people ?, just see now you are talking down at them with no respect and they deserve alot better, try give them a chance and learn them something just remember to be patient with them as they are new and just need to be settled down.
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as im Sergeant of ARPD, and a regular in it,
i got lots of kidnappings and bombings that sort of cases,
and what you say Omri is true,
we dont want freecops/cadet at a kidnapping or other worse cases,
yesterday we have freecops/cadets at a bombing, they didnt listen to any order that was given,
just running a bit around and shooting everything they see,
sadly enough this was because it was at a busy place in LS(near GS9)
why we dont want freecops/cadets?
because that makes the chance on a fail much higher, although maybe only 1 of the 10
will ruin it, the chance to get 1 of those is big, so it will be ruined, and hostage dead,
but we do call all freecops-cadets we trust, the players who have made there point already,
why not train the new players? for big cases they need experience first, before going into the hard work
mostly everyone is told not to inform about kidnapping on police radio, but used by phoning officers,
and others you want at the scene, this to prevent hostage from dieing,
and also better for kidnappers so they dont have freecop rushing in all the time,
thats why they are hated that much
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But you saying if the free cops are at the scene you lower the chances of saving the hostage, but what if you guys took some time and put some effort into training the Cadets ? I am 100 % sure if you guys could share your knowledge and experience with the cadets you will have succes. But the thing is, there aint many people that is willing to spend some hours and training some cadets.
But Bianconeri, I know it can be difficult to operate with the Cadets as most of them are new people at the server but allthough that, don't you think that they deserve a good treatment instead of beeing ignored ?
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im SAPD academy trainer, so i already put a lot of time into training
and yes they dont deserve to be ignored,
but if we dont inform it on radio, nobody gets ignored,
we only want skilled police at a dangerous scene,
you think you can just join any action you want? nope
as i said: we only call in trusted police into big cases
the others need some more experience in Argonath before
they can join in this big cases like a kidnapping
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By gaining and learning something new you do not have to be in the specific area where the kidnappers are, they can be close at the experienced players to also LEARN something. They do not need to join an action scene just to learn something, many people learn different and some just learn by observing and beeing there, and I think they derserve just atleast to come and check out whats going on.
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where i was talking about was kidnappings, not outside that,
outside that they should join with officers to gain experience and learn
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I'm not talking only about kidnaps as, I do talk in general as they can learn by observing the higher police taking actions against the kidnappers / suspect or who ever it is. Trust me, you can learn very much just with observing and learning how other plays, if they have observed in a while they will start take that knowledge that they learned into themself.
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yes, but theres also the opposite side of view of freecops.
some freecops are bad, others they are not bad..
I have had one freecop telling me to shut up or he will shoot me.. while i was trying to yell "I was getting robbed!!"
one freecop teamed with another planting drugs on me via /give.. i resisted arrest and drove farr away, and i eventually had an admin check the cop's drugs.. i only had the 1g that he planted on me(he had 68g).
one freecop pulled me over for hitting light poles and spinning around in the grass.. and he just talked to me if i realize that im doing somehting wrong.. and let me off with a warning.
and my most favourite: one freecop suspected me for jumping on top of his cop car (while i was thinking really deep in a CB convo)
but my best solution, is because i have a good memory for bad people.. i've had bad freecops in my playtime, and i remember them.. so next time, i get more cautious around them... and i will definately remember that cop who planted drugs on me ;) i wont be trusting him anymore.
So what regulars should do, is this:
1. pullover if theres a "freecop" asking you to do so..
2. he comes, and RP's or maybe "cuts through the cheese" and says "pay me $100 for speeding" or "ill let you off with a warning"
3. if he suspects you for speeding, /report ID
4. remember the layout of his nickname if hes a bad one, if he comes another time, try contacting an admin to spectate the player for any type of "abuse" as some would call it.
5. if the freecop has become legit (they do, over time and training etc.), you may clean their slates.
6. if freecop is still bad, that admin you contacted earlier is probably spectating, and if the freecop tries planting anything, or even hurting you with a baton in a alley, the admin can tell him not to do that next time
i AM going to feel sorry for those "big drug carriers" with 2000g+ of drugs.. /frisk can be another tool for a bad freecop to "act" legit, and tries to search you every 30 minutes under the sun..with your drugs for them to take you to jail and w/e but these "bad" freecops dont continue their behavior more than a week.. because they would ave learned some police codes, and what is suspectable and what isnt..
but remember, if you know you are being pulled over for speeding, that "bad" freecop probably only knows to /su whenever somebody is "breaking" the law. So you can say "John (5) says: ((speeding = you issue a ticket for $100))" as that may help a freecop trying to do his best..
imagine not being potty trained, you would ask yourself "how do i use this toilet?" you would need somebody to show you how to flush, and how to wipe.. if you didnt know.. you could possibly get a slimy butt from not wiping.. get ass ulcers.. not good..
thats what newbie freecops are.. they are not fully potty trained
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thats what newbie freecops are.. they are not fully potty trained
I have seen freecops that is better trained than ARPD officers, then do not come here and judge them all because you had some bad situtations with them.
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I have seen freecops that is better trained than ARPD officers, then do not come here and judge them all because you had some bad situtations with them.
i meant that around %75 of the very first time freecops dont know what to do.. as they might /su you for speeding when they dont know that they have to ticket you..
but over time.. they learn how to handle things that a first timer freecop doesnt know..
thats what some regulars think when they see a freecop.. they think all of them dont know how to RP, and saying "omg, the cop did not RP at ALL, he justed sussed me! ABUSE!!!"
what I normally do, is give a freecop about 2 chances to get things right.. like if he /su'd me for speeding.. i surrender.. and contact any admins about it, and to tell the freecop that speeders need to be pulled over for a ticket.. and if they dont bother pulling over.. then /su for evading.
if he does it again.. that i surrender again, blahblah.. but if he continues.. then ill contact the same admin that sees the same thing happening over and over, the freecop could get a copban, because of metagaming (he has the knowledge of pulling over, but just /su everybody for moar cash)
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moneris is right there, 75% of freecop is bad, the others got potential to be a good cop
thats where we, officers, learn from if we have a kidnapping we will NOT announce this on the radio,
only if none responds, and we only call ppl we trust, no matter there ranks
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moneris is right there, 75% of freecop is bad, the others got potential to be a good cop
thats where we, officers, learn from if we have a kidnapping we will NOT announce this on the radio,
only if none responds, and we only call ppl we trust, no matter there ranks
Sorry to say this, its just quite pathetic what you guys are saying now. You can't just say 75 % without analyses closely how many are abusing and not, you are just going after what you seen and the judgements about freecops.
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From my experience I have only seen that around 5% of the total freecops are corrupt and don't even WANT to learn... There are loads of potential freecops at the moment..
I remember when I was paying my ticket 5-6 months ago and a freecop came along, /su-d me for bribing cop and shot me on the spot. That was weird :/
I have been "abused" 3-4 times during my 6 months here.
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They just need to learn rules. Thats all.
But yeh, there is many better Freecops than Officers.
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many better freecops then officers, no way that that is true,
and ok maybe not 75% but certainly 50% of all players that ever become cop
are not interested, not willing to learn and abusing everyone,
im SAPD Trainer and i know how it is with the training and wanting to learn
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moneris is right there, 75% of freecop is bad, the others got potential to be a good cop
thats where we, officers, learn from if we have a kidnapping we will NOT announce this on the radio,
only if none responds, and we only call ppl we trust, no matter there ranks
As I remember you, you were one of the WORST freecops in the whole server, but look at yourself now, an ARPD sergeant...
See what my point is? ;)
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im 1 of the worst freecops? i dont think so Legend ;)
i have never been an abuser and always serious cop, i have never done anything else then being a cop,
you are remembering someonelse :D
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im 1 of the worst freecops? i dont think so Legend ;)
i have never been an abuser and always serious cop, i have never done anything else then being a cop,
you are remembering someonelse :D
You really were a bad freecop, Murderboy..
This is not a flame.. This is my opinion.
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You really were a bad freecop, Murderboy
Indeed.
Also, WE ARE NOT FLAMING YOU, Bian, we are just saying what you were, not what you are now.
I remember you as a pretty non-friendly guy and not exactly the one who was accepting a tip from a senior, if you know what I mean...
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Yes, before I use to think that freecops were corrupt and want to screw up the server. But recently I have seen alot of freecops who are very helpful and want to use their power for good. Great RP on radio and on patrol. But if they keep asking for promotions....well I cant say much since I think we all were like that when we first joined ARPD.
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1. N**b freecop of some or all bad abuses
2. Good freecop who become officer+
Don't worry about them, evade them, report them, kill them :O, and set PM off :razz:
Freecop is not apart of ARPD/FBI/SWAT so don't care them
:cop:
:ps: I didn't read all of the replies
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1. N**b freecop of some or all bad abuses
2. Good freecop who become officer+
Don't worry about them, evade them, report them, kill them :O, and set PM off :razz:
Freecop is not apart of ARPD/FBI/SWAT so don't care them
That's the best attitude there could ever be! I think you should become the server leader and shoot all freecops, man, that's the right one!!!
Anyway, I think I will lock this topic soon as I have proven my point already.
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That's the best attitude there could ever be! I think you should become the server leader and shoot all freecops, man, that's the right one!!!
Anyway, I think I will lock this topic soon as I have proven my point already.
hmmm... :poke:
I said the truth...
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hmmm... :poke:
I said the truth...
No such thing about bad freecops, fact is people just are way to harsh to them .. You expect full roleplay of them when they just joined the server, you also had to learn the codes etc. Do not blame them about that.
If there are freecops that abuse constant without listening, action can be taken, eventually resulting in heavier punishments..
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you also had to learn the codes etc.
I did? :(
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you also had to learn the codes
Ummm...? :poke:
Wanna chalenge me the codes and the real codes? :trust:
:cop:
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No such thing about bad freecops
Uh, yes there are.... There are freecops that don't even care and shoot you on sight..
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As the French says : "C'est la vie".
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I remember being a freecop and how no one really cooperated with me and always disrespected someone of lower status, then i would not know what I am doing, but i had some idea and great friends to help me out, but not everyone gets that chance and will end up being DM'er but he/she could certainly change if they get a chance to learn and others to have them learn. When I see a freecop, i don't /report, I pm them on there mistake, and they say thank you, I would rather get a thank you then him being kicked/banned because he/she did not know the rules, so i advise, before you report, tell them about there mistake, it will make things easier for both of them with a good end not "OMG DMER FREECOP", "you noob!", "if you cant RP, leave the server". I have seen these hatefull comments and trust me, they hurt the guy allot.
I hope you guys will respect these future officers, possibly even chiefs one day.
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1. you can inmediatly see if new cops are promising or not:
-are they willing to learn? do they ask things?
2. you also have new cops that can become a cadet, or just officer
that are new cops that get teached by officers,
in the start they might be called abuser, but then they ask for help, and officer will teach them
if they are really interested in the learning then they belong to the very promising ones(the first point)
3. the new cops that are not willing to learn, not playing with officers,
just driving and shooting all suspects they see, who just want money
we indeed all have been freecop(except for ARPD starters)
and in the start you wont know all rules and codes, but thats the point you must put yourself
above the others, learn fast and look ARPD site good
luckily i was one of the fast learners and didnt got called abuser(well as officer i did got called abuser)
cant remember how come i knew it all fast, i probably have seen the ARPD site somewhere in the first days here
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1. N**b freecop of some or all bad abuses
2. Good freecop who become officer+
Don't worry about them, evade them, report them, kill them :O, and set PM off :razz:
Freecop is not apart of ARPD/FBI/SWAT so don't care them
:cop:
:ps: I didn't read all of the replies
If everyone would think like that , we wouldn't have the ARPD :neutral:
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Bumped, this is a very relevant topic and should be noticed by people, maybe you can learn something from this.
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Bumped, this is a very relevant topic and should be noticed by people, maybe you can learn something from this.
Very great, Thanks for bumping. Lets hope they learn from it.
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It is also because many freecops are aged between 11-14, now at that age if children are bullied or treated like that they rebel against the establishment and cause problems. I try to help freecops now - I used to treat them like crap.
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It is also because many freecops are aged between 11-14, now at that age if children are bullied or treated like that they rebel against the establishment and cause problems. I try to help freecops now - I used to treat them like crap.
You should Mike, instead of yelling at them ,teach them.
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You should Mike, instead of yelling at them ,teach them.
I remember when I tried to teach an abuser freecop to act normal.
"Hello U51, want to patrol with me? U51!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?! PUT THAT GUN DOWN!"
*1 minute later*
"y am i in jail omg im a cop"
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I only call them a noob if they super abuse, and i ask them to stop, and they just provoke me. As far as im concerned, you try to throw something at me, I'll throw something back.
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It's funny how I'm decently known, but I'm still a freecop. To be honest, it's been money, money, money to most players. A few Ks is ok, but most of the players think this is (Quote from Polopolo) "Economy Simulator". Seeing as all the popular players who have $30k or more are all over the server, (in a way) it's like giving a delicious potato, or banana (trying to keep humor) to that child (especially frozen chocolate covered bananas. mmmm. i loves some right now). It's sort of a good and bad influence on them. Some are like 'wow.. I wish I was an admin. i'll try my be to become one'. Some, sadly, are like ' o: look at all that f---ing money!!!'. I look at the players. I recently see freecops suspecting players for standing. I also don't just blame free cops. Some players (regulars or newcomers) do rather ludacrious acts. such is the sudden outburst of “I R A TERROIST!!!!!!!!!†and shooting me for a stupid reason. And I still wonder where he got that ak-47. This angered me and caused me to do something terrible that I regret and am dissapointed in. I hopefully won't do again. But, if it gets to more trouble, I "won't leave home without it". I really hope that abusers and alike read this. I'm dissapointed
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some new cops come from other RP server and do it good,
there are enough promising freecops,
but sadly enough also a lot of abusing freecops
as magnus said: copban will solve a lot
but the bad times will be reminded more then the good one,
also if you see someone RP good as cop, light blue,
everyone think: cadet, since they see freecop cant be good,
so every good cop is at least cadet
i dont say its wrong to hate some freecops,
the big abusers which i really hate too,
but dont see them all as the same, freecops can be good also
:ps: whats wrong with $100 fine for speeding?
exactly, i have started playing on RP servers for a long time, i just had 5 rp servers in my favourite list, i never added new ones.
one day i just wanted to look if there are more server i dont ''know'' of.
i found argonath, great server, great community.
i had expercience rping WITH cops, but now i had the chance to rp A cop.
and im still a freecop, and i enjoy it.
not all people hate rping with a freecop, i find alot of players that would LOVE to Rp with a freecop
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This is all ARPD's faults(Scripting), I think they should change color on ARPD to SAME color as freecops and then it will be no treating between freecops and other polices.
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This is all ARPD's faults(Scripting), I think they should change color on ARPD to SAME color as freecops and then it will be no treating between freecops and other polices.
So basically you are accusing the developers, am I correct?
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This is all ARPD's faults(Scripting), I think they should change color on ARPD to SAME color as freecops and then it will be no treating between freecops and other polices.
You are saying that discrimination against freecops is just caused by scripts?
That's like saying that racism is just caused by different skin colours
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This is all ARPD's faults(Scripting), I think they should change color on ARPD to SAME color as freecops and then it will be no treating between freecops and other polices.
false, why do I sense you are trying to asslick? Just because the color of their name is different doesn't mean people will treat them differently.
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My own experience.
When you do start to play here, you do not know much about it.
But as the time is going, you start to understand that the 'freecops' are the one with a brighter blue than the ARPDs and so on. In that particular way, you give them more respect. I basically don't know why, it might be because there are many new 'freecops' that are about to learn. Now, when I've played this long on Argonath, I do respect them as much as the dark blue names. It's just a matter of time.
I do like the system. The ARPD and the FBI and so on should be promoted in somehow. But Al does not have completely wrong, as I do understand what he ment with that .. But it's not the scripts fault, The talk about 'Buhu freecops are bad' makes you think different, especially when you're new as you don't know much.
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Don't just welcome new players in /p, welcome them in role play too. I just spend 2 hours with a new player on the server and was a lot of fun :D. He pretty much knows everything there it to know about Argonath on his first day :lol:
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This is all ARPD's faults(Scripting), I think they should change color on ARPD to SAME color as freecops and then it will be no treating between freecops and other polices.
They have already tried giving all cops the same light blue colour and you know what happened? 99 per cent of the "prestigious" ARPD started crying and moaning "OH NOA THEY TAKE MY COLOR= THEY DONT RISPECT MEH????"
Freecops are the best officers in the server, simply because they are not biased and are not as selfish as high-ranked ARPD members. Although some of them abuse, they work with a will.
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I've got 1 question...
Legend were you the player under the nick Ahura_Mazda since he was a new player to argonath and i was hes teacher.I recognized that he knew everything.So i am asking..Is that you ? O.o
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I've got 1 question...
Legend were you the player under the nick Ahura_Mazda since he was a new player to argonath and i was hes teacher.I recognized that he knew everything.So i am asking..Is that you ? O.o
No he isn't .... that guy haves forum name Ahura_Mazda i think, and he applied to Gvardia i think...
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I've got 1 question...
Legend were you the player under the nick Ahura_Mazda since he was a new player to argonath and i was hes teacher.I recognized that he knew everything.So i am asking..Is that you ? O.o
Legend made that topic in February :S
Legend already left Argonath before that Ahura.
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Still nothing changed, not beeing able to roleplay a Law Enforcement Officer properly.
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Still nothing changed, not beeing able to roleplay a Law Enforcement Officer properly.
If you role-play a cop who hunts down orange named people by so-called "police GPS", then it's fine.
If you want to carry out a proper investigation, then it definitely is not possible... Each person here has his own vision of police role-play anyway.
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If you role-play a cop who hunts down orange named people by so-called "police GPS", then it's fine.
If you want to carry out a proper investigation, then it definitely is not possible... Each person here has his own vision of police role-play anyway.
Don't forget Ghost's argument, by typing /suspect, everything is already "investigated".
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They have already tried giving all cops the same light blue colour and you know what happened? 99 per cent of the "prestigious" ARPD started crying and moaning "OH NOA THEY TAKE MY COLOR= THEY DONT RISPECT MEH????"
Freecops are the best officers in the server, simply because they are not biased and are not as selfish as high-ranked ARPD members. Although some of them abuse, they work with a will.
thank you i guess, im on of that higher ranked officers :hit:
you may like freecops Mario, but saying they are best officers ingame is bllsht and you know that
i do agree that freecops rock! they are friendly and respectfull, willing to get training
and even just to talk a bit around, with freecops/cadets i could better talk then any officer+
also as Head trainer i spend basically all my time with freecops/cadets, so im helping new ones a lot
getting friends with them, even personal things and all!
this is just a part of it, freecops arent all that good, lots of abusers, rulebreakers and ppl that dont answer anything
If you role-play a cop who hunts down orange named people by so-called "police GPS", then it's fine.
If you want to carry out a proper investigation, then it definitely is not possible... Each person here has his own vision of police role-play anyway.
i see you really hate cops, but GPS isnt more then logic, although using radar has his limits in the RP use of it
and the last one is absolutely possible, everyone has his own vision correct, doesnt means you cant RP
you got enough experience in it Mario, you know cops aint as bad as you tell here
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All of you dark blue, aren't so good either, you know.
I saw that today, as an example.
Don't forget Ghost's argument, by typing /suspect, everything is already "investigated".
Lmao, I did see that today! Exactly after you wrote it, how wierd.
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Freecops are uncotralabel.
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If you role-play a cop who hunts down orange named people by so-called "police GPS", then it's fine.
If you want to carry out a proper investigation, then it definitely is not possible... Each person here has his own vision of police role-play anyway.
A proper investigation is completely possible. However it depends on how you approach people and how they wish to create their play.
Investigating actions of a coloured gangster will most likely get you flamed and shot at as that is their idea of RP. Investigating someone who actually wishes to interact and thinks of ways to be investigated it rare. However one may doubt this is a failure on the side of the police force...
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By my view, all deserve a chance, I remember my own days as a freecop, back in February - March, where I've been a newbie on SA-MP Roleplay servers (After 11 Months of VC-MP), Argonath was my 2nd after RPG-Freeroam (It's no more advertising, as the server does not exist no more.) I remember people calling me a noob and things as such, but still same, admins were fair to me, I only remember getting kicked once or something for braking a rule, but that's fine... You pay for your actions... Remember that!
Even today, I see respectfull and freecops full of Imagination who Roleplay even better than me! It's something to do with your mood, your creation, and your Imagination! If you can imagine well, you can RP well too!
Lately people don't mind how to RP and have fun, but how to make money and spent to have fun... it shouldn't be in that way, as if you don't have fun within RP, there's no point on doing it..... :poke:
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Most of freecops are bather cops then all this SACS SASD CDSA MSAS RQWR TAST and other police groups.
Why? Ask yourself.
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Here's what I can say about this :
This is not about "Freecops are better than officers". This is simply about how some typical players would stereotype freecops and think that all of them are just as bad as each other. And yes, this concept is embedded in some argonathRPG players.
I have been a freecop in my UC account, so I can say this. Argonathrpg has many different players with different attitudes towards freecops. Some are generally nice to freecops and treat them just like every other cop. Some, however, think they are even better than officers. Some think they are just idiot players, are totally hopeless and just think it is ok to flame and call them "noobs". From this, we cannot say that all players treat freecops really badly. But we can't also say that the issue of abusing freecops does not exist. In other words, the problem is NOT because all players treat freecops badly, but it is because there are a few exceptional players who don't realize that their abusive nature is not appropriate.
In my view, freecops need extra guidance in order to be successful players. They cannot learn their lesson from hearing others calling them "noobs" or "fuckers" or whatever. In fact, it only gives them the impression that such behavior is appropriate (Which is obviously not true) and copy it. This is why we should not do this. Instead, we need to tell them that what they did was wrong, and that they shouldn't ever do it again. Of course, if as regular players, you see that they don't listen to you, you can use /report to call for admins, who can help to get their attention.
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Bump.
Well said Trobby888, as many of you know this is still a big problem in Argonath, maybe the biggest...
Might edit this post later and write a few words from my view later on.
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Its on fu*king time people start to reward good efforts no mather skill level instead of just punishing bad efforts/behaviour.
Back2basics here.. how hard can it be.
I guess majority of people are that young enough to still live home with mom & dad, shouldnt be needed to have one in the "free zone" aswell.
Just try to walk a mile in there shoes.. hopefully people open there eyes a bit and notices there not alone.