Argonath RPG - A World of its own
Community => News and Announcements => Topic started by: Gandalf on November 20, 2009, 09:52:42 pm
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After a review of the current team, we have decided to restructure the admin team of SA:MP. We have decided to review the performance of all admins, and keep only the best and most active ones.
This includes probably a number of surprises in those that we lift of responsibility. Know that we have not fired people for being bad admins, but that we have decided to once again raise our standard to be the highest quality team on SA:MP.
Admins should be among the highest regarded players, in knowledge of the rules, activity, experience, friendliness and ability to act and enforce.
The restructure will mean that new vacancies will be opened in the team. We will create an application for those who wish to try. However remember that to become admin you need a high standard. Not only is it needed to understand the Argonath vision and rules, but also you need to be able to be active, and set aside your own play for the benefit of the server.
Becoming moderator or admin is not a rank for experience or play, it is a job. One that you will only be able to succeed in with hard work and some frustration.
Remember this before applying.
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Nice job Ronnel. :)
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Dreams come true today?
For some of us dreams come one of these days, for some of us it's the end of the line..
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For some of us dreams come one of these days, for some of us it's the end of the line..
It should not be the end of the line, as anyone who ever was part of the admin team still is among the respected players. Some guys will finally have time to go back to RP that they could not do while on duty.
Perhaps some people will leave, mostly those who are rank hunters.
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Good work Gandalf, keeping the team in good fitness, is exactly what is needed right now!
Good luck to the futured vacancies applicants.
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Exactly What it was needed Gandy.. I really support this idea, There are a LOT of listed admins that are never active, or when they play, they don't do nothing.
** Especially for me that i am an admin wanna be :P :poke:
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For some of us dreams come one of these days, for some of us it's the end of the line..
Traser, like Gandalf said, it shouldn't be the end of a line. I don't know how good of an example am I, but look at me. I have been an admin in here. I was relieved from my duties, now I can just bum around and enjoy role playing fully, without having to worry that I have a job to do. Instead I know, there are the best of the best who takes care of things.
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Good work Gandalf, keeping the team in good fitness, is exactly what is needed right now!
Good luck to the futured vacancies applicants.
Just like he said. Most of the admins are active in-game and do their admin duty's, so i don't think there will be too much new vacancies. Thanks Gandalf. :)
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Good work Gandalf :) It's always a good idea to keep the team the best as you can get, then all will run smoother in terms of gameplay and experience when playing on the different argo servers :) Good luck to who that apply when we can :)
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Bravo! This is just amazing, you're doing well :)
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Even though this got my fired from my job, I'd like to say this is a good change for the admin team.
I want to wish every other admin good luck and every admin also voted out, just stay ingame and let's play again!
Thanks guys...for everything.
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Even though this got my fired from my job, I'd like to say this is a good change for the admin team.
I want to wish every other admin good luck and every admin also voted out, just stay ingame and let's play again!
Thanks guys...for everything.
Geez Nexxt.. I'm really sorry for you, you were an great admin.. :neutral:
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I think it was a wise decision for the most part.
Yes some may loose there admin ranks, but as you have said Gandalf, you want the highest skilled admin team possible (Not say anyone is a bad admin). Cuz personally i think the admin team was great the way it was, but i definitely see where your coming from.
Good luck with this process Gandalf :)
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Also remember guys that...
After a review of the current team, we have decided to restructure the admin team of SA:MP. We have decided to review the performance of all admins, and keep only the best and most active ones.
There are quite a bit of SA:MP admins who are inactive at the moment for one reason or another.
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About the 'active' thing, open your eyes guys - most of the admins ARE active and actually DO a great work, so not that many spots will be left for the best to join in.
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About the 'active' thing, open your eyes guys - most of the admins ARE active and actually DO a great work, so not that many spots will be left for the best to join in.
There is a very big list of SA:MP admins, Pazi.
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You did a good job out there nexxt, nobody would ever blame you for that. You have done a good job and it's time for you and also others to move on without admin, enjoy the RP life a bit more instead of admin.
Keep in mind that every admin is doing a great job and will always be respected for his deeds and helping the server. ;)
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I lost them too..but oh well, it was for the greater good anyway. So i am cool with it.
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Sad you left Nexxt,you was cool admin and you had cool ranks,I dont understand why you got fired.
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I'd like to wish everyone the best of luck.
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I'm also removed, joining those who have been judged not to be fit to remain as part of the administration. I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all those who supported me as players, admins or mentors and to wish good luck to those still in the admin team.
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Sad to see you out, Violet. Hope to see you back soon as everything is possible :x
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Proxan is removed also :(
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Awhhh Nexxt !! Why?!
You were good admin :(
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I was removed too. Well its was fun and i wish good Luck to everyone..
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I was removed too. Well its was fun and i wish good Luck to everyone..
Awww sean :(
You was a good admin , well done :D
Now you can focus more on RP terms ;)
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I was removed too. Well its was fun and i wish good Luck to everyone..
Damn :(
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Well it was definitley needed. According to this (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?title=Admin_team#SAMP_Admin_Team) list, there is about 73 admins and moderators.
For some of us dreams come one of these days, for some of us it's the end of the line..
Metallica - The End of The Line (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejBpeci0o9c#)
Just a little joke.
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Im removed. Good luck other admins! It was a honor to be a part of the awesome team!
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I was removed too. Well its was fun and i wish good Luck to everyone..
GOD DAMNIT SEAN.
This day is horrible :(
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Some guys will finally have time to go back to RP that they could not do while on duty.
Or for some the opposite, like when today a cadet was chasing me and shooting me with his smg from a cop bike as drive, and I could not do anything except report him.
But I guess everyone has this so im not trying to whine here.
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Sorry to hear for everyone who got removed :(. Well guys, just keep doing what you always did. Keep rping like you always did, and just.. keep having fun..
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Or for some the opposite, like when today a cadet was chasing me and shooting me with his smg from a cop bike as drive, and I could not do anything except report him.
But I guess everyone has this so im not trying to whine here.
Remember you were part of the gang moderator trial.
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Or for some the opposite, like when today a cadet was chasing me and shooting me with his smg from a cop bike as drive, and I could not do anything except report him.
But I guess everyone has this so im not trying to whine here.
And I took care of him. It's all good :)
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Sad to see some admins got removed, this few weeks will be hard ones till admin team gets back to full strenght, I will do my best to make it good!
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It's sad to see so many admins getting removed, but in the end we might end up with better admins on the server, anyway you are still here to RP with the rest :)
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Well great job, but i think Twenty and nexxt deserves to be an admin aswell, they did a good work.
But thats not up to me.
:roll:
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Admins that got removed, It was an honor to server with you in the adminteam
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Well it was definitley needed. According to this (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?title=Admin_team#SAMP_Admin_Team) list, there is about 73 admins and moderators.
Metallica - The End of The Line (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejBpeci0o9c#)
Just a little joke.
That list is missing quite a lot of Lv1 and Lv2 administrators, and it has not been updated to remove the ones who have been removed from the admin team.
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Shit happens.
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Shit happens.
Not really nice to say.
Sad to see you all leave the administration team, you were all great and will always be!
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Squeak? Aww that's bad. You been a great admin. Oh well, more time on MSN for you, sexslave.
Not really nice to say.
lol
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Not really nice to say.
How is that not nice?
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Admins that got removed, It was an honor to server with you in the adminteam
That's Likewise, and i'm serious.
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How is that not nice?
Shit happends.
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Shit,Ryan is removed too :conf:
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Wasn't expecting that for Ryan, neither Twenty.. be happy you've been part of the team, you haven't lost your respect by server even ;) Admin or not, it's the same person who uses the account and plays! It's the person which is worth, not the admin status!
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Hello no, Ryan is kicked... :(
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I'm out too.. Was a pleasure working with you guys.. Thanks for the oppurtunity you gave me.. And good luck to the rest who's left..
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Its sad story :(
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lol @ msn spam.
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Had a great time in A-Team with you guys :)
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I don't care about the others, but come on Squeak and Violet were outstanding Roleplayers, was a fault Argo Administration.
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I don't care about the others, but come on Squeak and Violet were outstanding Roleplayers, was a fault Argo Administration.
I believe it's because "NO CRIMINAL ADMINS HUAE HUAE" thing.
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It is not, even criminals are Roleplayers... and there's no such rule, if your a criminal, you can't be an admin.. cause there wouldn't be the Gang Admins...
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Name one admin that is a criminal.
It's a MSN thing made for lolz, so yuea.
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[AV]Nexxt
Twenty
[WS]Winters
[WS]Seanolk
[TCL]Kessu
Eugene_Gvardia
Hank_Rafferty
[WS]Ryan
Squeak_Araatus
[TCL]Masa_Rich
Violet_Corleone
Hell_Gvardia
[Rstar]Proxan
[WS]Elmartu
[TCL]Mumin
[Rstar]Miami
[Rstar]Petey
[Rstar]Clooak
Wael_Corleone
[AV]Luke
[AV]JDC_Kolta
Your remembered :(
You will be remembered as great admins :(
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I believe it's because "NO CRIMINAL ADMINS HUAE HUAE" thing.
I guess that JDC, Twenty and Winters are biggest criminals in the Argonath then? If you haven't noticed yet, there are no difference if you are or if you are not cop. Of course, its sad to loose your collegues. Hope that they will apply for moderators positions then, when applications will be opened.
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It was a honor working for the admin team, but some people should not have lost admin like [Rstar]Petey.
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It was a honor working for the admin team, but some people should not have lost admin like [Rstar]Petey.
As Ronnel said, activity also plays part in these decisions.
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[TCL]Masa_Rich
Your remembered :(
You will be remembered as great admins :(
Why did you post my name? i'm promoted... (took out the other names to save some place)
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[AV]Nexxt
Twenty
[WS]Winters
[WS]Seanolk
[TCL]Kessu
Eugene_Gvardia
Hank_Rafferty
[WS]Ryan
Squeak_Araatus
[TCL]Masa_Rich
Violet_Corleone
Hell_Gvardia
[Rstar]Proxan
[WS]Elmartu
[TCL]Mumin
[Rstar]Miami
[Rstar]Petey
[Rstar]Clooak
Wael_Corleone
[AV]Luke
[AV]JDC_Kolta
Your remembered :(
You will be remembered as great admins :(
You got a crappy list..
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Why did you post my name? i'm promoted... (took out the other names to save some place)
Sorry,its shows your not SA;MP Admin,it says you wrote it.
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sad that many good admins like Twenty, Nexxt, Winters, Proxan were removed :(
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[AV]Wolfe is also out..
:bye:
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[AV]Wolfe is also out..
:bye:
Ah man :(
But no matter , admin or not , players can always help other people in the server.
All will be remembered as great admins! :hurray:
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Yeah...admins need recuite more
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This is one of the best news i've ever heard in my Argonath history.
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All will be remembered as great admins! :hurray:
Indeed.
I would say "Good luck!" to all ex-admins, who were removed.
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I'm pleased to see a reform at this scale and commend the efforts being taken towards a more agile, trusted and highly respected administration team. I have every confidence in the senior administration team towards restructuring Argonath, and I hope this is the initiation of this lifecycle.
During such a reform, there are doubts and uncertainties that are raised. This is no exception to this, and we should approach this issue with open arms. In contrast, I also have my personal view on this subject. I do not support the decision of Violet_Corleone being directed towards a new career path. Why? I believe that it is our new talent that will revolutionise Argonath. There should be less focus on developing people when they reach a certain level as one would expect a level of self-determination to drive forward their values. Instead, we should be focussing on our juniors, establishing communication at a high level and ensuring their development is paramount towards the success of our future. We have an obligation towards their future as much as they have an obligation towards the success and calibre of our community.
The concerns around the status, leveraged power, contradiction and double standards have in my perspective led to this decision. Its a decision that has been difficult to call from the senior administration team of Argonath. It's a move that involves courage, honesty and risk. It's a move that has been directed towards improving collaboration towards players and ultimately towards the brand image and perception of Argonath. Its something the regular player base has been looking forward to for a prolonged period, where we all seek clarity and direction from our community leaders.
Its imperative that we focus on the players that have recently lost their motivation/direction within the community. The next few weeks will see them changing/evolving into new scenarios where steel armour is no longer their immunity. We have a strong set of individuals who may not fit into the administration values, however these people pose other strengths which should at their will be exploited. Its important we find them roles within the community whether formal or non-formal. We must ensure this, or risk allowing them to fade into the dark as perhaps foreseen at the time of decision making.
From my position at GS9, I see and hear a lot. The countless hours of global chat, discussion in-game and general banter have me motivated towards playing my role in Argonath. I believe this is now the time, where we should all take a deep breath and concentrate on the goals of creating a vision for success, fulfilling values, perception enhancement and ultimately unparalleled game play pleasure. :)
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I wish good luck to any current or future admins wich are still there..And I myself agree on my removal from the admin team..I would of done the same to me..Since I'm inactive and have no idea when I might return..Good luck to you all..See ya all around..Ronnel And RON, Great job, keep it up :)
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Or for some the opposite, like when today a cadet was chasing me and shooting me with his smg from a cop bike as drive, and I could not do anything except report him.
But I guess everyone has this so im not trying to whine here.
Don't remember the rule, that self-defence is allowed?
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To bad to hear some admins fired but good luck for others !
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1. Admins team of SAMP counted around 90 admins...
2. There are many reasons for this or that admin got demoted...
3. There were no reasons like "This admin sucks lets remove him"...
4. It will be also harder to get into admins team...
First of all I would like to thank those demoted admins who did not give up and took to the note the reasons of their demotions to work on it and not allow the next time...
Secondly, firing admins does not mean they cannot try to apply the next times vacancies will be opened...
Thirdly for those who got demoted will be hard times and depends on how you will manage this negative experience - can be different results next time you apply...
This is not that Argonath team was that bad as even around 70% admins were removed... It means that Argonath developers going back to their idea of admins team and for many of you it will look like we raise standards of a "good admin"...
All other things - in a special topic in SAMP section....
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[AV]Nexxt, Twenty, [WS]Winters
[WS]Seanolk, [TCL]Kessu, Eugene_Gvardia
Hank_Rafferty, [WS]Ryan, Squeak_Araatus
Violet_Corleone, Hell_Gvardia, [Rstar]Proxan
[TCL]Mumin, [Rstar]Miami, [Rstar]Petey
[Rstar]Clooak, Wael_Corleone, [AV]Luke
[AV]JDC_Kolta
Behold, they who have been slain in combat for the sake of Argonath's future.
I'm joking... just trying to inject some humor into the situation. Okay, speech time!
I possess mixed feelings of happiness and disappointment, I am disappointed for myself because I know that I could have done better if only I exerted enough effort, although I already gave my sincere efforts as an admin, while it lasted. :(
On the other hand, I am somewhat happy because I can get back to things that I had less time for as Admin, such as FBI and Argonath Express, and I know that I will be more ready if I ever get a second "second" chance as an Admin. As I said in advance, I will still be happy whatever the decision on me is. :)
I would like to thank the Server Owners, Community Leaders, and all my Co-Workers in the team, past and present. Being an Admin was a very fun experience and a maturing one as well.
To those who were removed along with me, don't feel so bad, our life still goes on and as Malcolm said, you do not necessarily need Admin commands to help the Server. :)
To those who are part of the new team, you will encounter harder times than we have, and you have my sincere support, make us proud! :D
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Behold, they who have been slain in combat for the sake of Argonath's future.
I'm joking... just trying to inject some humor into the situation. Okay, speech time!
I possess mixed feelings of happiness and disappointment, I am disappointed for myself because I know that I could have done better if only I exerted enough effort, although I already gave my sincere efforts as an admin, while it lasted. :(
On the other hand, I am somewhat happy because I can get back to things that I had less time for as Admin, such as FBI and Argonath Express, and I know that I will be more ready if I ever get a second "second" chance as an Admin. As I said in advance, I will still be happy whatever the decision on me is. :)
I would like to thank the Server Owners, Community Leaders, and all my Co-Workers in the team, past and present. Being an Admin was a very fun experience and a maturing one as well.
To those who were removed along with me, don't feel so bad, our life still goes on and as Malcolm said, you do not necessarily need Admin commands to help the Server. :)
To those who are part of the new team, you will encounter harder times than we have, and you have my sincere support, make us proud! :D
Don't be sorry for yourself dude, it's not that you haven't done a great job or something. It's just that you could have done better, according to the main admins. But as far as i saw, you were always there when people needed you, and you were always friendly teaching new players something and answering the reports nicely. Don't be too hard on yourselves guys.
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I agree this was some what needed, Some admins were starting to get a bit lazy, and always looking to RP when people needed them for an Admin situation. Others in my opinion were doing a great job and others didnt see it as much as i did i guess. Anyway Thank you to all the admins for all the help you have given to Argonath and for the new admins i hope you can be just as good and hopfully better :)
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Please note that we have reduced the number of ranks with this review of the admin team.
Level 1 and 2 are now combined as 'Moderator
Level 3 and 4 are now combined as 'Admin'
Level 5 and 6 are now combined as 'Manager'
We have decided on this to remove the 'rank hunting' that sometimes seemed to be part of the desires. With less ranks there will be a closer team and more concentration on work than on possible promotions.
In many cases the decisions were very close, and even a single negative vote meant removal from the team. The votes gave some surprises, however the votes were done well-balanced and without any bias or personal background, as many good personal friends were removed from the team by those who voted.
With this operation finished, we will rebuild th guidelines and then enhance the tem with new members.
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Shit happens.
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“If you have tears, prepare to shed them now.â€ÂÂ
Failure is the one word that expresses my true opinion and feeling towards the retardation that has just occurred.
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Failure is the one word that expresses my true opinion and feeling towards the retardation that has just occurred.
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It is an honour to have worked as an admin in Argonath, and I thank the developers for the opportunity. I learnt a lot of things during my time in the administration. One day, some of us may return to team improved, and then those will figure out that waiting the while and improving was worth it.
Life goes on...
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It have been great to worked and have been servering as a admin, and i hope when i get active again, i will be able to do so again!
Thanks all!
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Guys it is not really the end of the world for gods sake.. If you feel that you didnt deserve to be threw out then re-apply again like Gandalf said in pm..In my case, i will think good about that and see do i really have a time and enthusiasm to do that job like before..Just take it easy ;)
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I agree with most of the rank removals, but not all. Oh well, it's for the greater good.
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To all the former admins, thank you for your time and effort while you were on duty.
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As for me. I didn't serve a very long time as an administrator but I'm glad that I was actually chosen, and I accept the decision that I have been dealt, but good luck to all the future Moderators/Administrators.
May Argonath live on!
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Hi everyone.
i'd like to say thanks to all admins, to all ex-admins, to all players, for participating this community.
just like aragorn said, you must handle this bad experience, and perhaps you can be back in.
We do a step behind and later, walk three steps foward.
It is not easy peform admins duties, you players must know it, and we are living a moment which we need to put hands together and try walk.
well guys, think better, Losing admin rights ain't the end of the world, i didn't lost now, but i had that experience before.
It is the moment that we can stop reading admin chat, and fit yourself in a player role.
To all ex admins: there's no need to be crying, or being be nervous about it, you still have chance to go back again,
The hunting to the old west can end in this change, i hope, and the house be cleaned.
A request to players: please be more patient, and play by rules.
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It seems I have been removed as well. It has been a great couple of months. Even though admin work was hard, it was worth every second of it.
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It's sad to see so many admins getting removed! Especially admins like JayL! Who was 24/7 of his time on Admin Duty the last 1,5 month without doing any FBI Duty (well there were 2-3, but mostly he was on admin duty.).. that was a Big Surprise at all.. he was really good.
Now even the FBI lost:
Twenty
Winters
JayL
Fernando
John Leppi
JDC
Left:
Sammir
Jaaskaa
It used to be the force with the most admins, not it's the opposite kinda... :P
Life goes on, what you loose, you can get it back!
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I'm speechless, so I will just say I hope everybody knows I did my admin job to my aboslute best every single command I used and every single word I said.
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Very very good choices on this guys... a lot of admins who lost their spot did not really use it correctly, and sometimes even abused it. Although that was not the reason for all, I can think of 3 that did (in my opinion, of course).
BUT I was pretty dissapointed to see JayL and Nexxt, Malcom and a few others go as they really worked hard as an admin. Jay was the only admin i ever had the pleasure of meeting who responds within 30 seconds and is actually willing to help... most admins would have their PM off or ignore the pm. I remember once there were 85 players on (or so), with so many bans and kicks, warns and more happening, and JayL somehow got time to set a home for me, wasting about 10 minutes of his time just to help me find the correct area.
And @ TheRock: I'm not sure if your trying to say FBI was a great group because they had admins, or just that they had so many admins... either way it is kind of selfish to say that :P
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No, I don't say such thing, I say, we used to be the force with it's staff almost filled with Admins, now it's the opposite, as we only got two admins in the whole FBI.. nothing to do with the quality of the FBI here..
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No, I don't say such thing, I say, we used to be the force with it's staff almost filled with Admins, now it's the opposite, as we only got two admins in the whole FBI.. nothing to do with the quality of the FBI here..
Trobby is still there :D
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It seems I have been removed as well. It has been a great couple of months. Even though admin work was hard, it was worth every second of it.
noes! :war: :war: :war:
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admins like JayL! Who was 24/7 of his time on Admin Duty the last 1,5 month without doing any FBI Duty (well there were 2-3, but mostly he was on admin duty.).. that was a Big Surprise at all.. he was really good.
He choosed the Admin duty between the FBI Duty ALWAYS, when i said him "JayL Get on duty nao we have a kidnap" the most of the time he responded "i am on admin duty, maybe later", he was and IS really good for both jobs.. it is a surprise to see him demoted, and not promoted :/
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I'm speechless, so I will just say I hope everybody knows I did my admin job to my aboslute best every single command I used and every single word I said.
nice words Giac
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No, I don't say such thing, I say, we used to be the force with it's staff almost filled with Admins, now it's the opposite, as we only got two admins in the whole FBI.. nothing to do with the quality of the FBI here..
So? Leaves more time for their duties anyway. Now you can actually get backup instead of an 'Admin duty' message EVERY DAMN TIME.
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To the guys who lost their responsibilities, tough luck as I am sure all of you did your best. Try better than the best if you truly want it again.
To guys who are gonna apply for admin, ask yourself the following questions:
1) Will I be able to ALWAYS respond for admin work whenever needed?
2) Can I be certain that I will never let emotions control my commands (Conversely, is it possible that commands will control my emotions)?
3) Can I be patient at all times?
4) Do I realise that this is work and not play with a status?(Most important question)
If your answers are "Yes" to all the above, please do apply. But be honest when you answer those questions...
To the guys who are in - Congratulations.
Cutt3r
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Yeah, when you apply you think "Damn being admin must be hard", one month after you think it's easy and when you lose it, you realise how hard it is to keep up as a good admin.
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Woah.. Woah.. Did they removed Cutter?
:gd:
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Cutter resigned voluntarily due to real life issues.
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oh.. i almost got a hearth attack..
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He completely resigned?
i heard that he is just going to have an extended absence.
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isnt Greats admin fired?
JayL
Giac
Cutter
Nexxt
Vio
i always supported this admins ... to bad they fired :$
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I'd listen to Cutt3r if you're thinking of applying. He's the admin I tried to take after. :)
Who knows, maybe I'll apply again. ;)
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Cutt3r resigned, he didn't get fired. :x
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Cutt3r resigned, he didn't get fired. :x
Oh , :S
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Aren't their to many admins relieved from duty? Anyways, thank you guys for the help you gave me and others during your time as admin, and goodluck to the remaining admins!
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Cutt3r resigned, he didn't get fired. :x
WAT.
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WAT.
Arjun had his own reasons for leaving, it dosen't have anything to do with this.
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Arjun had his own reasons for leaving, it dosen't have anything to do with this.
:(
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Cutter always helped me.... and not just me, but even the other players, it's nice to see him resigning rather than getting fired, but even if that, I don't think there can be something negative to his dedicated work in argonath and his admin duties to get him fired... so after all... Thank you.
As for JayL, I really remember asking him to come help us with the FBI, and he always was like "Erm, I'm busy with Admin Work, maybe later..." :P Still can't believe he got fired...
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Cutter always helped me.... and not just me,
thats why im wondering why he left :S
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Cutt3r resigned, he didn't get fired. :x
He had some problems..
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I would like to clear up this issue with Cutter before it leads to any further confusion. He has left for personal reasons and they were nothing at all to do with this restructure. Had he stayed he would still be in the admin team now.
Cutter was an excellent admin and is welcome to return to the team if he wishes to.
Kojak
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I bet a few days, if somebody says in main chat "Admin!!". A lot of the fired guys still react on that with "yes?"
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I bet a few days, if somebody says in main chat "Admin!!". A lot of the fired guys still react on that with "yes?"
Lol , a lot of fired admins still help newcomers and do the job like they did before on admin ...
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Everyone should help newcomers. ^^
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Former admins can still help without their admin rights, anyone can help, for example, I'm not a SA:MP Admin, however I still use my skills to help and guide players on SA:MP, it is a admins instinct to help players, you don't lost it just like that. ;)
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Former admins can still help without their admin rights, anyone can help, for example, I'm not a SA:MP Admin, however I still use my skills to help and guide players on SA:MP, it is a admins instinct to help players, you don't lost it just like that. ;)
The problem behind it though is that many admins who worked very hard and deserved promotions if anything at all, were "fired". I can personally account for more than 10 admins that almost never roleplayed because they focused so hard on their job, and now they feel betrayed. The idea is good for setting a new standard, but I personally believe the way it was carried out wasn't the greatest. Personally, I'm not too happy with what happened to me either, but regardless of how I feel about that, I trust in the administration there. As for the others that spent their time, every moment they were online, administrating..., they were not given a fair chance.
Honestly, I think all of the non-abusing, non-inactive, etc. admins should have been moved back down to level 1 that were voted to not stay, and then the community should have voted on who they believed was the most helpful to them. After all, they are the ones that are moderated. I've actually even seen ALOT of non-admin users upset over this change. Some were even very pissed that some admins they believed were extremely helpful and dedicated, were falsely lost. I want to congratulate those who were promoted, but at the same time, it seems unfair to all of those who were jumped up multiple levels without having the chance to learn the new commands. These new admins now have to live up to the past admins and beyond, and then some. Aside from being forced to learn all these new commands quickly now, and what they do, and how they should be using them correctly, they are also now being forced to deal with less admin teamwork being available, so they cannot RP, nor can they work together to take on multiple reports at once. Even worse, during the night time, such as when I was commonly one of the two or three admins on during those hours, there is now practically no one to protect the server or help out. With the lack of trained admins being available, it's going to put a very large strain on the admins of the new system. Even worse, those who had recently become level 1 admins never had a chance to prove themselves or learn the correct process of administrating before they were "fired".
I'm glad that the high administration has decided to attempt to conquer many of the problems within the former system, but at the same time, it seems like things were taken to an extreme in a way that may have not been the best. Now I'm not trying to flame the system, idea, or anyone at all. This is also not about me being a "sore loser" for losing my rights as well. This is about those who lost their rights that I and many others believe shouldn't of, and it's actually quite sad and angering to see this happen when they worked so hard for their positions to have this happen to them later on.
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The problem behind it though is that many admins who worked very hard and deserved promotions if anything at all, were "fired".
Each one had their reasons. No admins were fired for nothing.
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Klaus, they were voted. Not all were fired or demoted for specific reasons.
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Everyone should help newcomers. ^^
I know i meant that fired admins still doing great work
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Thanks for your post SugarD, one of the most frustrating things about this exercise has been seeing admins who don't care that they have been removed from the team so I appreciate when admins make well thought out, considered posts like yours.
There is not really a lot to say in response, but I do want to assure you that no arbitrary decisions were made. A lot of research was done, including many hours of pouring through logs, to make our decisions. I understand that there is no way that everyone will agree with every decision we have made, but I hope that people know we have completed this exercise to the best of our ability and with the best intentions at heart.
What was done needed to be done, and now I look forward to the future of Argonath maybe even with some of those who have left us returning once more to a new improved admin team.
Kojak
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I agree with what you have to say, and I know you guys put your heart and soul into deciding. Basically, I'm not saying that your decisions were wrong, but more-so I am actually saying that the system and the way things had to be decided should've been different.
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I want to thank all SA:MP admins for the wonderfull time. :)
But my time has come, i am not able to keep my rights as an administrator.
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Also damn, you restructuring the SAMP admins, now I have to restructure my MSN list as well : ))
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shouldnt we let the players decide who are on argo for atleased a week because most of em are more active than just the main admins :neutral:
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shouldnt we let the players decide who are on argo for atleased a week because most of em are more active than just the main admins :neutral:
Decision was made only by Aragorn, Gandalf, Boromir and Kojak - not main admins.
There are lessons to be learnt for me from this, and it's time I continue practicing what I try to preach.
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Personally i think this method could be useful but for some or other reason either in the way you have performed it, it seems to have caused more issues.
Ive seen many admins whom Ive known for over a year and have been extremely helpful every time i ask for help or someone else asks and they have now been "fired" for some reason which Im not to sure of.
This is a good method to clean up the admin team but from what Ive witnessed it seems to have issues, causing anyone to be "punished" for no actual reason, some admins who actually dont really do what is expected of them, but some of those are still Admins IG right now, while many who do everything in their power to help others have been stripped to nothing and feel deeply betrayed for this after they dedicated all their time online to try further the server and make it a much better place for everyone.
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Although it's great that you're trying to re-structure the admin team and all, I think that some rather bad decisions have been made. I've scanned these nine pages, and some of the admins that I've learned of to be fired are rather questionable.
I know you have your specific reasons for demoting them, but I still feel that some great admins here, who've put in a hell of a lot of work and devotion, have been shot down. I know it's not for me to decide, and it doesn't really matter what I say, though.
Anyway, on a better note, I'd like to wish a good future for all fired admins. To all promoted admins... congratulations! I hope this re-structure pays off! ;)
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A restructured team.
Since I've been in Argonath I've seen a large number of vast changes. Good ones and bad ones.
This one clearly has a mid-term. Not bad nor good.
I will not name names, but those know how much I respect their work and others how much I don't. I leave my regards here.
Here's one thing that I've learned on my experience as an administrator: most of them don't know what a administrator job consists on. It's clearly a job, you'll have to make sacrifices - you'll HAVE to give up on the role-play(it's almost impossible to do both, I've tried), you'll HAVE to be professional (dear lord the amount of childish conversations I've seen in the administration chat) and you CAN'T let things become personal, like I've witnessed and experienced.
People see a administrator as a respected person - they are - but people forget that they're respected for their job, not just because they give funny reasons when they kick people, when they warn them, etc. So, if you apply to the administrator position, in the future, keep that in mind: You'll have to make sacrifices and ONLY if you really enjoy working instead of playing you should keep yourself as a administrator.
I'll talk about my own experience. When Gimli invited me to become an administrator I was more than happy to be part of the team.
But after a self auto-inspection I made myself some questions. The answer was :
- I wasn't happy, the teamwork was 0 and I didn't had the time to help out my folks in RI. Solution? I have resigned. In less than a week.
A last note - If you're a administrator, always, do a self evaluation on your work. "Have I been impartial?", "Have I been professional", "Am I here just because I'm respected?" and finally : "Am I happy?".
Good luck to every future administrators and I sincerely hope to see some, who just got demoted, to apply again.
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A restructured team.
Since I've been in Argonath I've seen a large number of vast changes. Good ones and bad ones.
This one clearly has a mid-term. Not bad nor good.
I will not name names, but those know how much I respect their work and others how much I don't. I leave my regards here.
Here's one thing that I've learned on my experience as an administrator: most of them don't know what a administrator job consists on. It's clearly a job, you'll have to make sacrifices - you'll HAVE to give up on the role-play(it's almost impossible to do both, I've tried), you'll HAVE to be professional (dear lord the amount of childish conversations I've seen in the administration chat) and you CAN'T let things become personal, like I've witnessed and experienced.
People see a administrator as a respected person - they are - but people forget that they're respected for their job, not just because they give funny reasons when they kick people, when they warn them, etc. So, if you apply to the administrator position, in the future, keep that in mind: You'll have to make sacrifices and ONLY if you really enjoy working instead of playing you should keep yourself as a administrator.
I'll talk about my own experience. When Gimli invited me to become an administrator I was more than happy to be part of the team.
But after a self auto-inspection I made myself some questions. The answer was :
- I wasn't happy, the teamwork was 0 and I didn't had the time to help out my folks in RI. Solution? I have resigned. In less than a week.
A last note - If you're a administrator, always, do a self evaluation on your work. "Have I been impartial?", "Have I been professional", "Am I here just because I'm respected?" and finally : "Am I happy?".
Good luck to every future administrators and I sincerely hope to see some, who just got demoted, to apply again.
I could've not said it better.
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Even though this got my fired from my job, I'd like to say this is a good change for the admin team.
I want to wish every other admin good luck and every admin also voted out, just stay ingame and let's play again!
Thanks guys...for everything.
i cried :(
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Some admins shouldn't have been fired. :cry:
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Joey has made significant points which are open to debate within this topic. I share the observations shared by Joey, and in particular the focus around resigning around the topic around quality within the administration team. For one, I have always been against applying for the administration team seeing it as an arena for false misrepresentation of community members. The recent decision which has been reached by the senior administration team has prompted me to reconsider my Argonath career and perhaps to divulge into another career path. Im sure there are many more people who share the same perspective as me. The opportunity to raise the bar is lucrative for those who are truly committed.
As the senior administration has mentioned, this is considered a restructuring. In a restructure assets are reorganised and liabilities disbanded. A restructure will allow players to reassert their commitment towards our community. Its an opportunity for the senior administration to distinguish between people who are cautiously but knowingly misdirecting the community and towards sustaining credible assets.
The mere hint of sorrow within this topic, in particular by disbanded administration members suggest that this decision has been successful. Observations carried out have suggested that rank hunting, attention crawling and double standards have led to a loss of new/regular player base confidence. The performance management criteria that have been introduced will ensure that quality is ensured and sustainable within the administration team. We will no longer have to play with doubt and uncertainties and in particular we will be able to focus on what we do best. Play the game in a safe environment with a strategic, close and deliberately designed administration team managing the community.
Argonath is critically stronger as a result of this decision.
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Life needs sacrifices.
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Why for some people, have admin status is so important?
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Why for some people, have admin status is so important?
The main reason some find it so important to be an admin is to make themselves feel as if they are of a higher level over others and they want a position of power so no one can tell them what to do.
Thats the main reason for it all which i can see.
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Why for some people, have admin status is so important?
I can tell you why it is so important for me.
It gives me a job what I do from the bottom of my hearth :)
Its important for me because I've learned much and would
never quit this job myself without any proper reason, such
like "It's getting annoying" etc...
I just love to do the job and help server, player and the
whole community with it :)
Well it's not the only job that I started to help community.
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I bet a few days, if somebody says in main chat "Admin!!". A lot of the fired guys still react on that with "yes?"
I almost did that. =P
But anyways..
Your name doesn't have to be listed in /admins to be able to help players..
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Why for some people, have admin status is so important?
Its a culture that is embedded into the backbone of Argonath within SA:MP. The perception of the low level administration team is something that is questionable by many serious regulars including myself.
Players, who genuinely care for our community, strenuously exhaust all open channels towards helping our player base. These people are deemed core assets of our community and through their hunger to help, continue to explore all opportunities until they feel they require a new challenge. For example, [Rstar]Proxan is a perfect example of this. Starting his new Argonath career at GS9 was taught by several community members including myself. We aimed to provide him with impartial advice and through our guidance within his career he realised that the essence of our community are our new players. With a relentless attitude, he pursued his career with strong intentions which saw him subsequently saw him progressing up the self-respectful ladder of fulfilment of helping players without the superficial attachments.
For others the system is open to exploitation. Ive been in the community for a long time, and throughout that time Ive seen new players join and work through the ranks often changing drastically in the process. A majority of the previous administration in my view were driving away from Argonaths core values of our vision statement. These individuals were striving for a sense of immunity, proclaimed respect and ultimately a sense of false accomplishment.
I dont despise them for this, as the administration system of levels enticed them to be lured in. The implication of these numbers (1,2,3,4,5) has changed people often striving for glory rather then the passion of the community. The reform of the administration levelling system may uncover clarity for those who genuinely care. However for those who still retain the factors of malicious behaviour. It will still serve as another platform to operate viciously on.
The prospects of malpractice as an administrator not only affect the individual involved. It affects all in the process. For example brown nosing (asskissing) is an evolving problem within Argonath and I along with a majority have severe hatred for it. Administrators who preach double standards entice others to be provocative while they lurk behind a curtain of immunity. Brown nosing revolves around this and is encouraged by these select few who have in turn created a culture revolving around a senior admin in prospect of being promoted. Our regular player base observes these actions and realise that should they want to progress they will have to adopt these quick win tactics to stand a better chance of progressing.
These tactics of misconduct along with the desire of people wishing to become administrators are a fatal blow to the lifecycle of Argonath. I only hope as reiterated in my others posts that this new administration team is capable of stamping out this culture and encouraging a system where performance is not rewarded but the long term viability of our community is.
Whilst I state all of this, I believe we have a critical flaw within Argonath in the sense that nature progression is what motivates players to pursue a administrator orientated role in line with their commitment of improving the community. It is the only option available to players to cement their commitment towards the community and I believe we should have more roles encouraging people to take responsibility for this community. This will lead to a self-efficient community and towards the value of interdependence.
In line with this, its important that we have the foundations in place to create sub-groups of people willing to take the initiative of helping people through different methods instead of technological commands within the server. As a committed new player trainer, I see many areas of improvement around the job role portfolio of Argonath and stress that more endorsed roles should be opened. For example, a committee for regulars should be set-up to act as a body between the administration and player base of Argonath. These people should be picked by the community and honoured by the administration. This is an example of the path we should consider exploring if we wish to decentralise focus on the administration powers that lure many to the brink of oblivion.
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madboi as you see there are no more admin lvls, we are whole, one unit, one team, homogenic working devision
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madboi as you see there are no more admin lvls, we are whole, one unit, one team, homogenic working devision
I think he means higher levels than normal players.
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[AV]Nexxt
Twenty
[WS]Winters
[WS]Seanolk
[TCL]Kessu
Eugene_Gvardia
Hank_Rafferty
[WS]Ryan
Squeak_Araatus
[TCL]Masa_Rich
Violet_Corleone
Hell_Gvardia
[Rstar]Proxan
[WS]Elmartu
[TCL]Mumin
[Rstar]Miami
[Rstar]Petey
[Rstar]Clooak
Wael_Corleone
[AV]Luke
[AV]JDC_Kolta
Your remembered :(
You will be remembered as great admins :(
omg at least half of them wer totally awesome!
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I think he means higher levels than normal players.
He means, level is nothing, so they are all equal, they are all admins, no matter what the level. they are all meant to be there to help every person in the community.
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Saddened face.
: (
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I think he means higher levels than normal players.
I don't think any admin is higher level than me
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My admin job (yes, I prefer to call it job, not rank nor status) kept me close towards the community.
I tried to help everyone who I could help and tried to follow the guidelines, set up by the leaders.
I will continue helping people and try to change the points given by the main community leaders to upgrade those point to a level where I could have a possible chance again.
Could do my work with much love and much fun - and I will continue parts of these still (Introducing new players to the community, help players with questions etc...)
AS stated before , every admin fired got a chance again - and we can look down with like "OMG IM FIRED".
But we all have these feelings (the ones who actually care) and we have multiple options.
1. Show your feelings and keep talking like: "Damn, omg , I am not admin - dis sux they wrong"
2. Use the reason why you got fired and try to improve your aspects of the reason.
I'd rather chose for the last option, as I know how other people feel.
It's just a little advice of me, of what I think what's the best.
Like someone earlier said, one step backwards, can result in three steps forwards (for the admin team, and for you as individual, I have to add).
I saw some improvements on this and noticed the admin team, became more "team" then "individual admins"
Good luck guys ;)
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They aren't any higher level than players. Some people just want to be an admin so they think they can be higher.
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First of all, I'd like to appreciate your supports and comments, and even some of your thoughts that contradict those of ours. As kojak stated, all the decisions we made are not arbitrary; all of them were made after careful considerations and inspections.
This was the first step we took to make the admin team stronger yet flawless. This project will not only promote the refinement of the admin team, but also increase the effectiveness of it. Additionally, to all admins who have been voted out, I want to say that you guys should know that you can still make contributions to the server without the admin status... If you say you are not going to help the server because you have lost your admin rights, then I must affirm that you have been in the admin team for improper reasons.. I still look forward to working with you for this community.
Boromir
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I don't think any admin is higher level than me
yes, i completely agree with you,
No admin is of a higher level of arrogance than you. ;)
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I just went ingame, and saw the levels were gone.
One reaction, just totally awesome.
It can stop the things like: "I am higher level then you" , and atleast I hope it will for those people.
And as reaction on the post from Boromir:
Ofcourse I will still help and put some contribution towards the server.
It have been my job, and now it will be something I feel like I want to do.
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I got an idea that admin who was and got demoted cant re apply because they got a chance
now i think need to give on another players who can do that job ... :poke:
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Many of you guys has helped me shape my career as an administrator for the last two months, and I am thankful for that. No matter what happened right now, I will always have respect for you guys.
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I got an idea that admin who was and got demoted cant re apply because they got a chance
now i think need to give on another players who can do that job ... :poke:
Of course they should be able to apply
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I got an idea that admin who was and got demoted cant re apply because they got a chance
now i think need to give on another players who can do that job ... :poke:
Why is that?
It's not about having a chance, it's about your capabilities as administrator.
If you can handle it or not, wether you have been an admin before or not.
Kicked admins could improve their weak points and have a chance again.
Remember, being an admin is a job and not a rank what makes you cool, so imo "chances" don't matter.
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I imagine there will be a lot of pressure ingame on those who remain.
Good luck to those who are thinking of reapplying, and those who are thinking of applying for the first time; when the applications are open.
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I hope the SA:MP A-Team will be able to build up again quickly, with all its strength and prowess.
Best of luck!
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Why is that?
It's not about having a chance, it's about your capabilities as administrator.
So if someone have capabilities as administrator wont be demoted he will stay more time...
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The main reason some find it so important to be an admin is to make themselves feel as if they are of a higher level over others and they want a position of power so no one can tell them what to do.
Thats the main reason for it all which i can see.
That is not true for everyone. No matter how much someone may brag about their status, it isn't always just that to them. The select few, like myself personally, joined to help the community, not to rank-hunt. I love helping this community in every way I can. It's truly a world of it's own, and I try every day to improve it. A perfect personal example is ARFD with me and Rory. I'm a full-time cop...all I have ever played in any of the servers, and I and Rory took this step to create a new, additional choice of a career to the RP world. As you can tell, it's not always about the rank hunters. I know that many of them could be, and that will always be obvious in every community, but some of the admins truly dedicated themselves in a way that shows that the decision to fire them may have not been the greatest right away. It's very painful to see that those who wanted to help the community, have now lost their will to, and those still left around, are being forced to mature and learn twice as fast as before to understand their new-found status as lvl 3 or higher equivalents. (To understand what I mean, notice how many lvl 1 equivalents became lvl 3 equivalents as a result of this. They were still learning and now they have to be the main admins in the servers.)
To be honest, I again totally agree with the proposal to fix the administration system, and the idea behind it is great indeed, but many parts that were left out created loopholes in the idea that set it up to struggle to survive until those that are left around can catch up, and those left behind to heal. What scares me even more is that, in complete irony, many users on the SA:MP server last night rioted IG, and rulebroke OOC over this whole ordeal. I can't count how many PM's and Vent/TS messages I heard about non-admin people complaining about how they believe some certain admins shouldn't of been fired. I know there was reasoning behind it, and honestly I do respect the work done to set up the new system, but I still personally think that firing ALL of them on the spot was a bit harsh. There were some new or newer admins, as well as old, dedicated ones, that lost their jobs over some of the smallest things. I know it's too late now, but if I saw this coming before, I would've recommended that the admins that weren't joking around, rulebreaking, abusing, inactive, etc. to be put as level 1 trials, and then have the non-admin users in the server vote on those they believe were largely helpful and should stay as level 1's so they have a chance to regain their lost rights and respect. Afterall, it is the non-admin users that get moderated in this community, not the admin ones, as stated by the administration rules, so why not?
Again, please don't take this as a flame or a "talking shit/post hunting" post. This is purely just one side of this whole event in my opinion, and it has nothing to do with me personally being fired either. I respect the choices made, whether I agree with them or not. :)
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So if someone have capabilities as administrator wont be demoted he will stay more time...
All admins who didnt fully operate on the developers vision, have been fired also.
Therefor these people can use their time to change, and try to re-apply.
With fresh chances like everyone, only it's harder to get in.
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Although some people may think that me not taking this too hard means that I do not care I got removed from the team, that is wrong.
As an Admin, I did not need Level 3 Status to help the rest of the team and the players, and as a Veteran, I do not need admin rights to help the Server as well.
I feel the same pain as the rest who got removed, and I am especially sad for my colleagues who gave their sincere efforts towards making the community a better place, such as Giac and Panda, and I also think that some of the removed should have stayed (not including myself. I acknowledge my faults and that even though my efforts were sincere, they were not my best). I also know that in the future, we will have a second chance, but in the meantime, we can use the time to go over our weaknesses and improve them.
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All admins who didnt fully operate on the developers vision, have been fired also.
Essentially, anyone with an individual mind.
As much as I think a demotion of 4 levels (which is essentially what it was) for "spells of inactivity" might be a little off, I can't disagree with the reason itself.
However, many admins have done nothing and were, in my open opinion, kicked for more.. personal reasons, namely my first sentence.
People should kick up a fuss, plenty of the absolute best admins got kicked (Squeak anyone??) and plenty of bad admins managed to stay in, somehow.
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People should kick up a fuss
Because we cannot talk about it on the server we should be able to talk about it somewhere. This is an open community, right?
When we look at the list, we see names that should not have been removed in our opinions. But at the end of the day, this is not our server. We're just the ones that are using it, so we shouldn't be pointing fingers.
If we start discussing it and we name the (former) admins we thought were good and the ones were bad, it would end up in flaming, provoking and all that kind of shit. We don't want that. So I don't think it's a good idea to take this over the forums.
If the developers want to hear what we have to say, they will ask us one way or the other. Or they'll just check the logs :lol:
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Mind if I ask why Vince is a moderator and that Rory guy is an administrator?
It's absolutely None-sense
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I fully respect developers' opinion, but I must say this. Panda is right. Why were good admins who, actually did their job, right got kicked? And the bad ones who MIGHT be fully active BUT didn't bother to even view reports, stay? Those admins only kick whoever flames them. They don't care about others. I used to ask other admin(s) to start viewing reports instead of just driving waiting for someone to flame them. Sorry, but I had to say it.
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Mind if I ask why Vince is a moderator and that Rory guy is an administrator?
It's absolutely None-sense
Well from what i know it was at the Developers and Leaders Discretion.
Some Promotions and Demotions Not everyone may agree with, but the Developers know what is best.
And i think this whole "No more level thing" will work out very good.
Ranks and Levels give the whole "i want more power" set of mind, Just pinning it as 'Moderators', 'Administrators', and 'Managers' will work out much better because they are not really ranks, just what your specific job is so there is not much worry about Power Hungary admins and such.
Cant wait to see how things work out in the Future :D
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That is not true for everyone. No matter how much someone may brag about their status, it isn't always just that to them. The select few, like myself personally, joined to help the community, not to rank-hunt. I love helping this community in every way I can. It's truly a world of it's own, and I try every day to improve it. A perfect personal example is ARFD with me and Rory. I'm a full-time cop...all I have ever played in any of the servers, and I and Rory took this step to create a new, additional choice of a career to the RP world. As you can tell, it's not always about the rank hunters. I know that many of them could be, and that will always be obvious in every community, but some of the admins truly dedicated themselves in a way that shows that the decision to fire them may have not been the greatest right away. It's very painful to see that those who wanted to help the community, have now lost their will to, and those still left around, are being forced to mature and learn twice as fast as before to understand their new-found status as lvl 3 or higher equivalents. (To understand what I mean, notice how many lvl 1 equivalents became lvl 3 equivalents as a result of this. They were still learning and now they have to be the main admins in the servers.)
Sugar, i did not actually say that All want to be admins to have power over others, like i said "some find it important to be a admin"
Many want to be admins to help out and do their best but you get those who just want it as a status symbol.
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Sugar, i did not actually say that All want to be admins to have power over others, like i said "some find it important to be a admin"
Many want to be admins to help out and do their best but you get those who just want it as a status symbol.
Sorry, but i don't think any of the fired admins, aswel as the hired ones are out for power..
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I'm surprised. Many of you supported the developers for their planned restructure, and now you guys are starting to oppose it..
The fired admins will have the opportunity to reapply if they are willing to learn their past mistakes/ be active more often..
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The fired admins will have the opportunity to reapply if they are willing to learn their past mistakes/ be active more often..
In the meantime, we have more than enough time to fix our weaknesses. :)
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Mind if I ask why Vince is a moderator and that Rory guy is an administrator?
It's absolutely None-sense
+1
Rory knows /kick and /banana and /warn.
That's not admin work.
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Don't state things about people you don't know.
If rory only was using that, he STILL was doing his job correct. However, there are more commands wich you guys can't see, Don't say he doesn't do anything besides that. It's not true at all.
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+1
Rory knows /kick and /banana and /warn.
That's not admin work.
Just because you arent an admin doesnt mean you have the right to judge others like you are right now. Show some respect towards others before looking for respect yourself.
Also, do not say he does not know what admin work is when you have no idea of what goes on yourself.
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I can personally account for more than 10 admins that almost never roleplayed because they focused so hard on their job, and now they feel betrayed.
Can you give me those 10 names who discuss their demotion with you in that way, so I will be sure they will not pass the new round if they will apply again...
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Can you give me those 10 names who discuss their demotion with you in that way, so I will be sure they will not pass the new round if they will apply again...
Not me for sure, I balance my FBI Agent job (chasing dangerous suspects, calling for heavy air support on people who steal grannies' wallets, ordering the teabagging and brutal execution of corrupt officers, forcing criminals to listen to horrible tokio hotel songs for 5 hours in a row, et cetera) with my Admin work, since I loved both equally :P
Okay, humor aside, Admin Job should not be taken so seriously that you disregard everyone everything else. Admins also possess a role shared by everyone else in the community; that of a player. When you join the Server as an Admin, you do not join just to administrate but you also join to have fun and socialize with the rest of Argonath. If you commit yourself too hard to Admin work to the point where it becomes your way of life, then you are turning a job into something that controls your life. Even the Developers and et cetera take time to have fun when they can on Argonath (Do NOT discuss /remcash with Gimli :P).
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A restructured team.
Since I've been in Argonath I've seen a large number of vast changes. Good ones and bad ones.
This one clearly has a mid-term. Not bad nor good...
Thanks for the post...
The Truth is usually between... As there are not totally bad or perfect people...
***
To the ex-admins who think they did best...
We are sure you did your best and at least tried it... And we are thankful to you for that... But you should also understand the difference to do your best or to do Argonath best...
In such case you just did not match the Argonath developers vision on what admins team should be...
Each of you got tips and hints in Private Messages... It can help you to review your vision on what admin should be and stick to Argonath vision...
***
And for those whose disappointment turned into gossips behind the scene... Yes, players do not know all things which were going on... Yes you can start tell them everything you want... But we warned you and asked do not speculate and take the demotion in a decent way...
Your speculations and discussing who stayed in team and who got demoted will just show the correct decision of the owners to demote you...
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Each of you got tips and hints in Private Messages... It can help you to review your vision on what admin should be and stick to Argonath vision...
I was not told any of my strengths or weaknesses in my PM, I would have appreciated it so I would know what to reevaluate and work on so I can improve myself. I guess it's up to me to find it out then, same for those who didn't get PMs telling them their weak points. :)
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Guys, I thought some of you could handle this better.
Its not the end of the would, try to RP again, fix your weakness and get a new chance.
Its not that hard, yes I really care that I got not into the new team, but why not try to FIX it, instead of post useless arguments here.
I see a lot of people being like: "Damn Nexxt was a great admin" , but I realise I look good towards the public for some people, although still I do not have the requirements from the Argonath vision of the developers.
From the outside it all looks cool, but developers knows what's going on with individuals :).
For example my situation:
I won't tell my exact reason and details, but I can do my admin work good, but sometimes there is something slightly wrong with my attitude. That's one of the reasons why I couldn't pass, how much people like me as admin or not.
Only thing is fix that, not argue about it and that goes for all problems.
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Can you give me those 10 names who discuss their demotion with you in that way, so I will be sure they will not pass the new round if they will apply again...
Im not questioning your decision, but dont you think that may be a bit harsh?
I mean, If you where in the same sort of situation im sure you may also feel a bit betrayed and could be pretty annoyed after doing everything you could and now you are dropped like this?
Many of the admins which are no longer admins had put their lives into it and its just over and change is always difficult when you have spent all your time doing it. And remember, most of those are still young so they do not take situations well, its similar to them as losing a pet or family member.
After some time they will calm down and realise it was a needed change because nothing can last forever and change is always good no matter what it is.
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Whats the "Betraying"? in this situation? Removing rights and giving tips what to change?
How does that become a betraying?
We did inform admins long time before...
We did tell how the vote will go
We did inform when it will happen
We did inform each in PM on a case of loosing rights or not...
We did thank all admins for the time they wasted on servers' work...
How the f**k is that betraying anyone?
Should we just stop creating a team WE WANT and start putting to admin everyone who thinks that he is 100 % perfect admin for Argonath or set admins just because someone somewhere said that or this guy rocks as admin?
However, already 4 times in topic was said - that was not a matter of developers caprice...
Each guy was a personal case...
What do you want to say with all those "Aw that guy was an awesome 100 % admin and he got demoted"...
That developers do not have idea what is a good admin? Or they made decision from nothing?
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How the f**k is that betraying anyone?
as i said, they feel "betrayed" or decieved for some reason, they would never want to lose their positions because they loved their work.
No one ever would want to lose something important to them like thier Jobs as admins.
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You still dont understand. Maybe they love this job and it was somethin important. But this is not reason to keep admin who is not good in his job/task.
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The comments and 'riots' show nothing that has not been expected.
On forehand we told that no admins would be fired because we think they are bad, they are fired because we feel they were not for 100% up to they standard they should have been.
The suggestion to let players decide on the faith of admins is one that will never be fully implemented. Players, while having the most contact with admins, can not see the whole picture.
If someone wishes to become admin and helps out new players, he would get many votes. But only main admins and developers would see him say 'another f**king noob I helped' in PM or CB, showing a different attitude.
As for the rumours of us not allowing players or admins to speak their mind, this is complete BS. Many of our leaders and managers got their position because they are not afraid to speak their mind, and some admins held on to their position longer as they might otherwise have done had they not been honest and frank.
We appreciate any player or admin wanting to contribute in a positive way to the server and community, even if this means that we clash our thoughts now and then.
As for the topic, I believe it has reached its use. If you wish to leave any comments do it in the next 24 hours, after which it will be locked.
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I would like to make something very clear to everyone. I have read many statements asking why this admin was dismissed because he worked his socks off, or why that admin was dismissed because he was constantly answering reports.
In many of the cases you have mentioned I can assure you that this simply isn't true, if it was true they would still be admins now. In addition to the rare instances of admins misusing their commands or behaving badly, the main thing I was looking for was admins simply doing their jobs; responding to reports, stopping their game-play to tend to admin duty.
I was not looking for amazing admins who dedicated their lives to Argonath; I was not looking for admins who displayed unquestioning loyalty to Argonath. I was looking for those who quietly do what they are supposed to do, day in and day out with no fuss or bother. Consistent, solid admins who are reliable, fair, strong people. People who are capable of leading us into a new chapter. We did find a few people like that, and they are still with us.
There is no point in saying Admin A was a great admin, he shouldn't have been dismissed, as it is just not true. That doesn't mean Admin A was a bad admin, just not what Argonath wants and needs. Already I'm getting complaints saying such and such an admin was on last night and didn't do anything! The server was out of control! Rule-breakers everywhere and that admin ignored it all!! So I check the logs and find that same admin was working like crazy putting out fires all over the place, so I ask myself was that person lying or is it all just a matter of perception?
That's the point isn't it? You all have your perception, where as we have the facts. In that sense I sympathise with the community, but I can assure you that if you knew what we knew you may feel very differently.
Kojak
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There are comprehensive differences between what the logs can suggest and the actual in-game experience of the time in question in my own perspective. Physical and tangible manipulation can influence decision making, friendly banter can disengage your serious side, and I would explicitly specify human nature of ones values determine this and extensively more. In essence, the decision as highlighted in my previous posts have been one of a birds eye approach ensuring equality and ensuring the core commodity of our community is intact and most importantly future proof.
I believe we have a critical flaw within Argonath in the sense that nature progression is what motivates players to pursue a administrator orientated role in line with their commitment of improving the community. It is the only option available to players to cement their commitment towards the community and I believe we should have more roles encouraging people to take responsibility for this community. This will lead to a self-efficient community and towards the value of interdependence.
I made a post on page 10, which highlights the need for greater scope and consideration around the job portfolio of Argonath. Please review and where appropriate discuss among yourselves.
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There are comprehensive differences between what the logs can suggest and the actual in-game experience of the time in question in my own perspective. Physical and tangible manipulation can influence decision making, friendly banter can disengage your serious side, and I would explicitly specify human nature of ones values determine this and extensively more. In essence, the decision as highlighted in my previous posts have been one of a birds eye approach ensuring equality and ensuring the core commodity of our community is intact and most importantly future proof.
I made a post on page 10, which highlights the need for greater scope and consideration around the job portfolio of Argonath. Please review and where appropriate discuss among yourselves.
This is something that is noted by the developers and leaders as missing, however it will take a complicated operation that involves not just a simple restructure to reach this.
We are developing ideas for a future game mode, that will be designed about giving players targets to reach without losing the freedom. It will comprehend ways for experienced players to be challenged, and the object is that experienced players need more challenge as new players, as they already have accomplished the basic things. It may be a contrary thing to what is seen elsewhere, as instead of making things easier or giving more rights to experienced players, we envision making it more hard for them, there by challenging them to use their experience.
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I Think that i did my best. If that's not good enough to qualify then so be it. I have been given my bad points and i'll work on that if i want to become a moderator again.
Instead of staying at this point, I move on.. It's sometimes hard to get along with it, but i'm sure i'll get trough.
Time to move on, You never know what news may be around the corner... ;)
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All admins and former admins did a great work on contributing the good deeds on the server. Especially to those admins that kept answering on newcomers questions and PM and work hard. :)
I need to say his because having some people that saying the same thing as i am is just not enough..
The contribution is much more than we can ever say :cry:
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Come on guys, see the positive things, all the Ex-Admins can regain their ability to RP, which they lost during the Adminjob.
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Well... All I am going to say, is good luck with the team right now. I hope it gets you what you actually want. I'm sure you guys know what you are doing. Althought, I was kicked too. I will try to fix my weakness and reapply for the admin team. Congratulations to those who stayed.
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I believe that the Server Owners and Administrators did handle this reconstruction very good and they were very clear towards the "old" admin team of what was going to happen.
They gave the information that there will be changes and how they will go through it. They did also make personal contacts with PM's to inform the result of this reforming and gave notes of what each and every individual need to work on in future.
And i cannot agree that the administrators, who had to leave the team, waste there time since many of them did a very good job even if they didn't full-fill the Owners vision.
"Backstabbing".. I cannot either see how the "old" admins who had to leave us got "backstabbed".. Everyone were given the chance to show there best of how they work and how interested they were of working for the Argonath RPG community.
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Hmm.. I'd like to give my opinion also..
I understand the reasons I were fired, and I am trying to improve from them, and re-apply when I feel I am ready to come back to A-Team..
It's not the end of the world as I see someone thought this is.. I saw alot of positive comments about this, now whining, why? Because they got kicked and they didn't like it.
From my opinion, this is a very good chance to admins who got fired, to improve what was told in PM and Role-Play for a bit before applying back to A-Team..
I have nothing bad to say about this, even some people may have..
I will still help new players in server, answer to their questions and tell what they did wrong (if they do) and what not to do again..
It may be harder to get their attention without being in /admins, but you can always call an admin to help you if you need to get their attention :)
-Kessu
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Saying that you feel you've been betrayed just makes me laugh. That's not it at all. I got to do all those things I promised on my admin application. Sure I wish it would've lasted longer, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. You really don't need admin commands to do admin work, it just makes things easier (sure you're not able to ban and all of that stuff, but /report works just as good). You only have to be devoted. I for one gave up on roleplay a long time ago (before I became a moderator/admin). I don't find it as interesting as I used to. I came to Argonath (as an admin) almost every day to work, and not to roleplay. Keep in mind that I found the job fun as well. It wasen't so much a job, but became more of a hobby. "It's not work if you like what you're doing", a principal I follow. I'll still play here, no doubt about that, but I don't think I'll roleplay more than I did as an admin, wich wasen't much. I'll be waiting for questions, so feel free to ask.
I will apply again, I don't have anything else to do :razz:
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I will not apply again immediately, my reason was correct and I am quite happy to be able to drive for more than 7 seconds without being asked something. I was happy to help, but at the same time wanted to actually do something now and again.
Admittedly the admin team did need some sorting out.
I just feel that the nature of this "sorting out" was a little.. how shall I say.. instant. No demotions and reorganising, just a mass of kicks, many great admins who were well liked alongside their great admin duties.
Either way, the main gripe I have is the high volume of criminal admins kicked, its just a massive step back for Argonath. A criminal group is massively weakened without an admin leading it (I know it sounds ridiculous, but its true :/). Before Araatus had admins, the only person defending us in the admin forum was Ignazio, we were being thrown to the dogs out there.
That all said, the FBI also got hit badly, so whatever.
Good luck to all reapplying, and good luck to those who avoided the mass kick. :)
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I will not apply again immediately, my reason was correct and I am quite happy to be able to drive for more than 7 seconds without being asked something. I was happy to help, but at the same time wanted to actually do something now and again.
Admittedly the admin team did need some sorting out.
I just feel that the nature of this "sorting out" was a little.. how shall I say.. instant. No demotions and reorganising, just a mass of kicks, many great admins who were well liked alongside their great admin duties.
Either way, the main gripe I have is the high volume of criminal admins kicked, its just a massive step back for Argonath. A criminal group is massively weakened without an admin leading it (I know it sounds ridiculous, but its true :/). Before Araatus had admins, the only person defending us in the admin forum was Ignazio, we were being thrown to the dogs out there.
That all said, the FBI also got hit badly, so whatever.
Good luck to all reapplying, and good luck to those who avoided the mass kick. :)
+1, Nothing more to say.
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We did inform each in PM on a case of loosing rights or not...
I did not receive that PM. :(
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Erm.. quite an essay, Violet..
You did a good job, in my eyes, but there are room for improvements..
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Erm.. quite an essay, Violet..
You did a good job, in my eyes, but there are room for improvements..
Of course, nobody is, was or ever will be a perfect administrator. However there is never a perfect system either.
I look forward to answering replies to my previous post.
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Admittedly the admin team did need some sorting out.
I just feel that the nature of this "sorting out" was a little.. how shall I say.. instant. No demotions and reorganising, just a mass of kicks, many great admins who were well liked alongside their great admin duties.
That was not a mass kick...
That was the building from the beginning...
You totally lost the point... Together with Traser...
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That was not a mass kick...
That was the building from the beginning...
You totally lost the point... Together with Traser...
That's How i felt it.. and now you say it's wrong.. but you cant change something i felt then..
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That's How i felt it.. and now you say it's wrong.. but you cant change something i felt then..
Thats not my job to change your view...
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Thats not my job to change your view...
.. I know that Aragorn.
And i can go in discussion with you, but i wont, because i respect you, and your actions.
I Lost my admin status, but i am still a proud player of the server. :)
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Thank you for your post Violet. Although I will be saddened to see you leave us, I feel that it may be good for you to do so. Perhaps I shouldn't make this judgement, but from the talks I have had with you in the last few days and from your post here I believe you have been hit the hardest by this restructure. The emotion you have displayed tells me two things; firstly that you cared deeply about your position within Argonath administration and secondly that your departure from it has been a great blow to you. As such I feel that taking some time away will be healthy for you.
I'm sorry to see the hurt this has caused you, and I sincerely hope you are able to return to us in the future, you will be missed.
Kojak
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Violet thanks for your post, and letting your heart out in this.
If you ever wish to clarify things, do not hesitate to talk to us.
Your post shows a problem which we have been trying to solve in this restructure.
To bring culture in to the admin team of distrust would be a large mistake.
The admin team has to trust each other and should be able to sort their differences instead of creating a culture where they fear someone will run to the kindergarten teacher (or mommy) and tell all.
The reduction of levels has exactly that target, to bring people closer together and take away the idea that they can not discuss a more experienced admin on their actions. If a situation arises that any admin feels should not be overlooked by HQ, they have the same option as any player and that is to report it by email.
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The reduction of levels has exactly that target, to bring people closer together and take away the idea that they can not discuss a more experienced admin on their actions. If a situation arises that any admin feels should not be overlooked by HQ, they have the same option as any player and that is to report it by email.
Yes, let the all the admins become 'BFFL's and give the server more chance to moan and whine(as a lack of answering reports).
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Yes, let the all the admins become 'BFFL's and give the server more chance to moan and whine(as a lack of answering reports).
Calm down wash..
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Yes, let the all the admins become 'BFFL's and give the server more chance to moan and whine(as a lack of answering reports).
Wash, at this rate you are walking on the edge of a pool filled with sharks.
Admin Team is not just a circle of friends, but it is also meant to protect the Players, and that comes first before everything else. With the greatly reduced manpower in the SA:MP Team at the moment, do expect that some reports may not be answered as often since it is not going to be 24/7 that there is an Admin online, but that is only temporary until the next wave of Moderators arrives.
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Yes, let the all the admins become 'BFFL's and give the server more chance to moan and whine(as a lack of answering reports).
Admins do not have to be friends, just be able to work as a team. And my guess is that the number of reports answered would be a lot lower is admins were fighting in admin chat instead of looking what happens on server.
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I can relate with many things in the above post, particularly the one about asking for a ban on a certain hacker many times only to be made to wait because Lvl3 Admins are either AFK, "busy" with something else, or talking about how some Admin pulled a Tai the week before.
I have to admire your English skill, Violet... not everyone is capable of bringing out their thoughts into one post the way you are. :)
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I have to admire your English skill, Violet... not everyone is capable of bringing out their thoughts into one post the way you are. :)
I have to agree with JDC.
And Violet, i respect you alot. And you will be missed.
There were many instances where i needed administration help and you were the first to respond. I also liked playing with you in general when you wernt doing admin work.
Good Luck in the Future Violet, Hope to see you soon.
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Although I may/may not have been present on the situation you describe where level 3+ are "AFK" or busy or things, current and future admins may please note that it is best to use apm instead of admin chat when such important matters are to be dealt with. If after requesting on admin chat, you do not get a response in 10 seconds, use apm. You may not know the flooding of chat for certain admins, hence adviced.
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Although I may/may not have been present on the situation you describe where level 3+ are "AFK" or busy or things, current and future admins may please note that it is best to use apm instead of admin chat when such important matters are to be dealt with. If after requesting on admin chat, you do not get a response in 10 seconds, use apm. You may not know the flooding of chat for certain admins, hence adviced.
True. Many admins get flooded which lead them to miss few comments / requests over admin chat.
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I have to agree with JDC.
And Violet, i respect you alot. And you will be missed.
There were many instances where i needed administration help and you were the first to respond. I also liked playing with you in general when you wernt doing admin work.
Good Luck in the Future Violet, Hope to see you soon.
Heh. I think the person who I am talking about knows who he is. A few days back I was reported to the community email for abusing my admin commands because I was the only admin responding to a call from a player to be teleported. I was just as misunderstood by that player, as misunderstood by some in HQ.
This is an extract of email that the reporter received of the complaint's result.
You were anxious about not being responded to, you felt you were being ignored and your frustration is understandable. However, the very person you're complaining about is in fact the only admin who did respond to you, you began complaining in main chat about being ignored so Violet informed you that only level 3+ admins can help you. Violet was showing you that you weren't being ignored, but he was just unable to assist. You then continued to complain in main chat about admins so Violet warned you, you then began to complain about that too so Violet kicked you, informing you that if you continued you would be temporarily banned. You then returned to the game and began to send PMs to Violet telling him he would be in big trouble and using laughing emoticons so Violet then issued you with another warning for provoking, despite him saying that you would in fact be tempbanned if you continued. When I spoke to Violet about this last response, he said although he had told you he would tempban you it was clear you were getting more and more annoyed and he didn't want to upset you further, but instead give you an opportunity to calm done yourself.
My conclusion to this is that although the frustration at not being responded to is quite understandable, continuous complaints in main chat will eventually bring admin intervention as it did in your case. Violet's approach was to explain to you why he couldn't personally help and only after you continued to complain in main chat did he issue a warning. Instead of heeding the warning you kept complaining in main chat and were kicked. Even after warning you that you would be tempbanned if you continued, when you did carry on Violet took the lenient approach of issuing a second warning. From investigating this matter, Violet has no case to answer and no action will be taken against him. My advice to you is that if you should find yourself in a similar situation, curb your anger and pay attention to whatever warnings are issued to you.
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Can you give me those 10 names who discuss their demotion with you in that way, so I will be sure they will not pass the new round if they will apply again...
Aragorn it's not meant in a bad way. They feel betrayed because of the work they did. They supported the restructuring because they honestly believed they were doing their jobs correctly, and were falsely punished for it. They aren't against what happened, they just feel like shit because of it.
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Violet, thanks for confirming the reason you did not get positive votes.
Trying to show the rest of the team as rule breaking abusers in order to emphasize your own 'qualities' and giving out confidential information has just disqualified you from a future admin position.
Topic locked to avoid other valued members making similar mistakes.