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Argonath RPG Community => Speakerbox => World and local news => Topic started by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 10:40:57 pm

Title: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 10:40:57 pm
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1137623.1345130943!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/dog2-web.jpg)

The dog, Star, was keeping officers away from his master, who was suffering a seizure. When police approached, the dog lunged toward a bystander and then rushed the cop who then shot Star in the head.

What would you had done in the suit of the officer in such situation? I find it pretty disgusting to shoot a dog who only protect his owner, obviously scared and no idea what to do. Though on the same time I understand the officer, no one want to be beaten by a pit bull. The nightstick could had been used to defend him self in my opinion actually!

Video contains sensitive material

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/video-graphic-footage-shows-nypd-shooting-charging-pit-bull-article-1.1137626 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/video-graphic-footage-shows-nypd-shooting-charging-pit-bull-article-1.1137626)
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 10:46:24 pm
Pit bulls are known to be extremely agressive and not to give up when fighting.
While they can be very sweet if controlled properly, a put bull raging is a lethal threat.
The officer had to choose between the possibility of losing the human life of the owner, getting himself and/or other bystanders hurt, or shooting the dog. If he was aware of the breed, I believe he took the correct decision. With the owner clearly being incapable of controlling, and the dog being willing to give his life to protect his owner, someone could have been seriously hurt. Waiting for animal control was not an option with an unconscious human lying there.
At such time the owner probably wished he had gotten the chihuahua.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Lincoln. on August 16, 2012, 10:57:09 pm
chihuahua

The dog which looks like a small ugly mouse?



The officer could have used his nightstick to hit the dog several times, using a gun was not neccessary in my opinion. I would never in my life kill a dog since I know how hard is it when you lose one.
At such time the owner wished he had gotten the chihuahua, but after his dog got shot, he wished to kill the officer.


And also, the officer could have shot him somewhere else, not directly into the head, the dog would fall down and he could successfuly save the injuried man.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SafetyMoose on August 16, 2012, 11:01:28 pm


And also, the officer could have shot him somewhere else, not directly into the head, the dog would fall down and he could successfuly save the injuried man.


1.) You have obviously never fired a gun, do you know how difficult it would be to draw a weapon, aim for a small target such as a dogs leg that is moving, then hit the target.

2.) A police baton is not going to do shit against a dog, you people really should not comment on police work when you have never experienced anything close to this sort of thing in real life.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Marcoo on August 16, 2012, 11:07:56 pm

2.) A police baton is not going to do shit against a dog, you people really should not comment on police work when you have never experienced anything close to this sort of thing in real life.

This.... Hitting a pitbull with a baton wont do shit, IF you ain't targeting the right area, by hitting it will only make it angryer and it will atack you even more..
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Lincoln. on August 16, 2012, 11:15:28 pm

1.) You have obviously never fired a gun, do you know how difficult it would be to draw a weapon, aim for a small target such as a dogs leg that is moving, then hit the target.

2.) A police baton is not going to do shit against a dog, you people really should not comment on police work when you have never experienced anything close to this sort of thing in real life.

I'm going to shoot four times a week since my driver worked for SWAT (In Serbia it's named 'SAJ') and he taught me to shoot.

1.) The dog was very close to him, he could have moved 30cm left or extend his hand on one side and shoot the dog.
2.) Well, I never tried kicking a dog with a baton and I agree that he wouldn't do shit since it's a big dog.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Marcell on August 16, 2012, 11:23:36 pm
A few years back while I was in countryside I was attacked by a vicious dog, wasn't a pitt bull but still fucking big. I just literally sat down on him and SMSed my cousin for help, although I got biten in the process
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Dolfagr on August 16, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
I am only wondering though, what does the police academy teaches in situations like these. Seeing the footage, he most likely re-acted on human instinct and shot the dog, can't really blame him.

However what's more worrying is that this society is entertained and fed by violence. Both in the cases of this shooting, aswell as the knife man, there were crowds following just to see the sight, this is a mad world we live in.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 11:28:01 pm
Pit Bulls were bred orginally with the strength and perseverance to kill a bull. This means that once they attack, they have no way back apart from being completely disabled.
In cases where they have attacked humans or other dogs, even a full blow to the head would not make them let go of the victim unless they were hit unconscious.
Shooting such a dog in the leg will not prevent an attack, it will only make it more prone to attack full force.

As much as I would hate to shoot a dog, I would do the same in this particular situation.
With a more controllable dog, even if its a big one, I might try another approack, but not with one that is known for its lethal force.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SafetyMoose on August 16, 2012, 11:36:20 pm
I am only wondering though, what does the police academy teaches in situations like these. Seeing the footage, he most likely re-acted on human instinct and shot the dog, can't really blame him.

However what's more worrying is that this society is entertained and fed by violence. Both in the cases of this shooting, aswell as the knife man, there were crowds following just to see the sight, this is a mad world we live in.

It is standard practice to shoot an animal if it assaults a police officer.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ricardo. on August 16, 2012, 11:55:15 pm
Lack of professionalism - it's what I can say seeing such thing.

A similiar situation happened two years ago near my grandma's house and everything went well. I had the oportunity to see everything and I must admit it was an hard process since either the doberman and the rottweiler were kinda stressed (like the dog on the pic).
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Dolfagr on August 16, 2012, 11:57:00 pm
It is standard practice to shoot an animal if it assaults a police officer.

However if you read further, the dog attacked anyone who was getting too close. Obviously the cop should have backed off and call animal control, but he did not and that's what led to the shooting when it got too dangerous.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Taylor_P on August 17, 2012, 12:15:20 am
and another cop going to be suspended  or fired due to public outlast, I cant say who I feel more sorry for in this case.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SafetyMoose on August 17, 2012, 12:26:56 am
NY - Cop Shoots Dog In East Village (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a04DbUaSEHU#ws)

Seems like it was handled safely and that cop got a decent shot on the dog when it was running at that speed towards him.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gimli on August 17, 2012, 12:40:35 am
Lack of professionalism - it's what I can say seeing such thing.
I wonder what you'd say if the headline said "police officer fails to save man's life due to being unable to shoot a charging pitbull"..

Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Dolfagr on August 17, 2012, 12:52:01 am
To sum up, the fault is completely the owner's for taking a Bulldog to a ride in such a populated area. Should he have not bring it, there would be no problem.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on August 17, 2012, 12:53:31 am
What's the point of that bitch yelling about why he shot the dog, it was clearly charging to bite him. He did the right thing. There is a reason pitbulls are illegal in some countries and states...The officer did the right thing, end of story.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ricardo. on August 17, 2012, 01:10:39 am
I wonder what you'd say if the headline said "police officer fails to save man's life due to being unable to shoot a charging pitbull"..
Check what I said above.

A similiar incident happened near the house of my grandma and the policeman was able to control the two dogs which were acting like the one on the video.
Not even to mention the portuguese's police forces aren't so well trained like in the other countries, nor it happened in a big city where animal control must exist. In other hand, what happened near my grandma's house was in the middle of the nowhere (you move around and all you see his bushes and trees).
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ron271 on August 17, 2012, 03:18:37 am
I hate this kind of shit. Pitbulls aren't bad dogs and the only time the breed gets attention is when something negative happens. They need to start training on these situations.   It's always shoot and kill, shoot and kill. The cops saw the dog was in protective aggression, but still approached? It's not like they didn't have time to maybe try pepper spray? I didn't see FDNY on scene and i doubt there was much the cops could have done to help the homeless man that somehow owns a pitbull in new york city w/o EMS. But what do i know.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 17, 2012, 05:32:54 am
Pit bulls are known to be extremely agressive and not to give up when fighting.
While they can be very sweet if controlled properly, a put bull raging is a lethal threat.
The officer had to choose between the possibility of losing the human life of the owner, getting himself and/or other bystanders hurt, or shooting the dog. If he was aware of the breed, I believe he took the correct decision. With the owner clearly being incapable of controlling, and the dog being willing to give his life to protect his owner, someone could have been seriously hurt. Waiting for animal control was not an option with an unconscious human lying there.
At such time the owner probably wished he had gotten the chihuahua.
Exactly this. It is always unfortunate for such situations to happen, and I personally hope it never happens to me because I don't know if I could pull the trigger, but sadly it's one of those regretful decisions officers have to make without any time to think...
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Dexter on August 17, 2012, 06:31:30 am
Oh well as I see officer did not had much choicec there..Just looks nasty how dog went out.. :(
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ness on August 17, 2012, 09:22:34 am
" WHY ARE U SHOOTING HIM ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? " - EVERY WITCH HUNTING ADMIN EXISTING IN THIS WORLD

FUCK POLICE - TUPAC
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 17, 2012, 10:10:23 am
Lack of professionalism - it's what I can say seeing such thing.

A similiar situation happened two years ago near my grandma's house and everything went well. I had the oportunity to see everything and I must admit it was an hard process since either the doberman and the rottweiler were kinda stressed (like the dog on the pic).
Knowing their character a dobermann and rottweiler would not need to be shot in such a situation. While they can be vicious, they are also able to be controlled when approached with the right authority.
A pit bull in attack mode has no way to switch off other than a very authoritative owner.

The difference in the case you witnessed was that the dogs were protecting the property, not the person.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Taylor_P on August 17, 2012, 10:55:54 am
I dont think the breed of the dog should matter as even smaller dogs can still maul people, hell a domestic cat is more lethal as its claws can easily penetrate the human skin, but Lucky for this freecop the State of New York has laws that make it ok for cops to shoot breeds like Pitbulls, still I hope that cop at least get sued and has to pay hefty fines, because trigger happy cops are a threat to everyone. However I wouldnt fuck with that cop looks like hes got some fast and accurate pistol shooting skills.

The difference in the case you witnessed was that the dogs were protecting the property, not the person.

I fail to see how its much of a difference also medics took there sweet time showing up in the vid, hell more cops showed up in fact this more reminds me of the freecops of arogonath Shoot first let the rping man die on the side of the road and have your buddies in blue showup and brag about your good dm*cough* shooting skills.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 17, 2012, 11:03:49 am
I dont think the breed of the dog should matter as even smaller dogs can still maul people, hell a domestic cat is more lethal as its claws can easily penetrate the human skin, but Lucky for this freecop the State of New York has laws that make it ok for cops to shoot breeds like Pitbulls, still I hope that cop at least get sued and has to pay hefty fines, because trigger happy cops are a threat to everyone. However I wouldnt f**k with that cop looks like hes got some fast and accurate pistol shooting skills.
I fail to see how its much of a difference also medics took there sweet time showing up in the vid, hell more cops showed up in fact this more reminds me of the freecops of arogonath Shoot first let the rping man die on the side of the road and have your buddies in blue showup and brag about your good dm*cough* shooting skills.
The breed of dog does matter a lot more as the size. The issue is how controllable a dog is when stressed, and how easy it is to stop an attack. The problem with a pit bull is not that they are in any way a bad breed, but that they as good as impossible to take out of attack mode. That is in their genes, and you can not blame the dog for this as it is the result of human selection. In a way they are like bees.
Can be useful and are much more peaceful as their reputation. However once they attack, they go to the end.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ricardo. on August 17, 2012, 11:11:55 am
Knowing their character a dobermann and rottweiler would not need to be shot in such a situation. While they can be vicious, they are also able to be controlled when approached with the right authority.
A pit bull in attack mode has no way to switch off other than a very authoritative owner.

The difference in the case you witnessed was that the dogs were protecting the property, not the person.
No, they were not protecting the property, they were protecting their owner who had been hitted by a car while was playing with them.

It doesn't mean if it's a pitbull or a chihauha, every single dog is dangerous in this kind of situation.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Taylor_P on August 17, 2012, 11:26:11 am
The breed of dog does matter a lot more as the size. The issue is how controllable a dog is when stressed, and how easy it is to stop an attack. The problem with a pit bull is not that they are in any way a bad breed, but that they as good as impossible to take out of attack mode. That is in their genes, and you can not blame the dog for this as it is the result of human selection. In a way they are like bees.
Can be useful and are much more peaceful as their reputation. However once they attack, they go to the end.

Breed should not be the reason, thats like saying Muslims are all terrorists because of 9/11 and such should be treated as, Also im not biologist but pit bulls have a lockjaw effect, unlike other breeds of dogs that can attack and just maul and shred people to bits, Also  correct me if im wrong but werent they also bread to attack the legs of bulls witch unlike most police attack dogs that would kill a person in a very short time if they had no command to stop, and even small dogs can be vicious. As an example the Japaneses had a very small/medium sized dog even smaller then pitbulls usually that would attack American Marines and due to there small size and quick aglity were almost cretin if not shot form a distance to do much damage to there target.  A breed of dog shouldn't be treated like it is, when almost of dogs can easily be fatal even without extreme situations.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ehks on August 17, 2012, 11:41:24 am
Hey look at the bright side, the dog is being taking care of therefore he made it.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 17, 2012, 12:03:38 pm
Breed should not be the reason, thats like saying Muslims are all terrorists because of 9/11 and such should be treated as, Also im not biologist but pit bulls have a lockjaw effect, unlike other breeds of dogs that can attack and just maul and shred people to bits, Also  correct me if im wrong but werent they also bread to attack the legs of bulls witch unlike most police attack dogs that would kill a person in a very short time if they had no command to stop, and even small dogs can be vicious. As an example the Japaneses had a very small/medium sized dog even smaller then pitbulls usually that would attack American Marines and due to there small size and quick aglity were almost cretin if not shot form a distance to do much damage to there target.  A breed of dog shouldn't be treated like it is, when almost of dogs can easily be fatal even without extreme situations.
The difference is, als I already states, how controllable a dog is. Pit bulls were indeed bred to attack bulls, and as a result highly resistant to pain during an attack.
A police attack dog is trained to perform a specific task on command, and if it shows the smallest signs of performing this outside the commands, it will be taken out of service and/or killed.
The Japanese dogs would be similarly treated if still running free.

Treat animals like animals and people like people. Once you start seeing animals as people you lose your command over them. You might see people as animals, but that is an equally dangerous state of mind.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: [WS]Jacob on August 17, 2012, 07:33:44 pm
The problem for the officer is not only the dog but the people shouting "Why did you do that!". I think the officer did the right thing, it seems as though it was the only option. You have a street full of people and a wild dog.

Not the nicest thing to do but it had to be done.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ratko Gavrilovic on August 17, 2012, 08:04:01 pm
If there were more officers (can't see) he could have been distracted while the man was braught to safety.

2.) A police baton is not going to do shit against a dog, you people really should not comment on police work when you have never experienced anything close to this sort of thing in real life.
Because only policemen have gun experience, right.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Hidduh on August 18, 2012, 04:34:46 pm
They could've atleast kill it properly instead of watching the dog suffering a slow and painful death..
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 18, 2012, 06:32:19 pm
They could've atleast kill it properly instead of watching the dog suffering a slow and painful death..
Actually, the dog is alive and kept in care.

Because only policemen have gun experience, right.
It's not only about gun experience, but also knowing how to deal with the dog.

Try to stop a charging pitbull with nothing but a police baton, then see if you can avoid injuries to yourself (and others who might be nearby).

The dog could have been dealt with had there been more time (i.e. distractions, calling animal control), but time was not a luxury as there was someone's life at stake, the unconscious man on the sidewalk.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ratko Gavrilovic on August 18, 2012, 06:40:22 pm
It's not only about gun experience, but also knowing how to deal with the dog.

Try to stop a charging pitbull with nothing but a police baton, then see if you can avoid injuries to yourself (and others who might be nearby).

The dog could have been dealt with had there been more time (i.e. distractions, calling animal control), but time was not a luxury as there was someone's life at stake, the unconscious man on the sidewalk.
I was not talking about that, but how Moose claims that you can only have experience with weaponry from police work.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 18, 2012, 06:47:47 pm
I was not talking about that, but how Moose claims that you can only have experience with weaponry from police work.
Misunderstood your post, my bad.

Although I am curious, what job class (other than police) can put people in a position where they have to deal with a pit bull using guns / batons?
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ratko Gavrilovic on August 18, 2012, 06:51:30 pm
Misunderstood your post, my bad.

Although I am curious, what job class (other than police) can put people in a position where they have to deal with a pit bull using guns / batons?
It doesn't have to be a job position.
The fact that it was a cop is random.
The man that the pitbull charged at could be a random civilian.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Alan.Wake on August 18, 2012, 07:22:46 pm
Old man > Shit just got real.

Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 18, 2012, 08:21:12 pm
That cop was well in the WRONG, now I know what people mean when they talk about American cops being trigger happy, that dog could have been easily controlled without using lethal force, the dog was only trying to protect it's owner, as a civilian went closer all the dog did is nudge him in the leg with his head, not exactly biting him is it.. Sure the guy was having a seizure and the dog wouldn't let anyone get close, but NY has tons of dog control people, why didn't they just radio for one in? Surely a seizure isnt enough to directly kill someone before animal control could arrive, I would have risked a bite instead of shooting it though.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 19, 2012, 03:08:51 am
They could've atleast kill it properly instead of watching the dog suffering a slow and painful death..
The dog was shot in the head...
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gimli on August 19, 2012, 06:18:41 am
Surely a seizure isnt enough to directly kill someone before animal control could arrive, I would have risked a bite instead of shooting it though.
So Amy Winehouse is not dead? :wow:

According to wikipedia, 8-17% of people with epilepsy die while having a seizure. I would rather shoot a dog than play russian roulette..
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Celso on August 19, 2012, 06:49:11 am
Not even to mention the portuguese's police forces aren't so well trained like in the other countries, nor it happened in a big city where animal control must exist. In other hand, what happened near my grandma's house was in the middle of the nowhere (you move around and all you see his bushes and trees).
Well, the portuguese force is actualy more trained then you think, they are trained to use force (not guns but body force) to take down suspects so they would deal with a dog attack quit nicely but still if something appened like in this video i am sure they are allowed to withraw their gun and arm the dog but this officer was probably trained to draw is weapon when someone's life is at danger, and since a pit bull is a very agressive and vicious dog the cop had no other option then shotting the dog to safe his live.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 19, 2012, 06:56:00 am
So Amy Winehouse is not dead? :wow:

According to wikipedia, 8-17% of people with epilepsy die while having a seizure. I would rather shoot a dog than play russian roulette..
Seizures, both directly and indirectly, can kill you, yes.

As for epilepsy, those numbers are such because it's a disorder where seizures either randomly happen, or are triggered by a specific reason/thing.

Seizures are not only the loss of control of the body's muscles, but it can also lead to irregular heart beat, stroke, and other complications...not to mention self-inflicted injury during the seizure itself.

It is definitely considered a life-threatening situation when someone has one.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Hess on August 19, 2012, 08:24:30 am
I do feel sorry for the cop for being put in such a situation. The dog was clearly posing a threat to the public in a busy area and went into attack-mode, in order to defend its owner. The cop had to make a quick decision, which I believe was the correct one, even if it isn't seen that way by everyone. To those who say they wouldn't have shot him - really? If you were in that cop's situation would you just stand there and let the dog charge at you and attack you, and possibly anyone else nearby?

The cop had little choice and little time to react, and yet he did what many say was what they would have done also.

It seems that no matter what action the police took, people are going to accuse the them of handling the situation incorrectly. What would have been the "correct" action to take under the circumstances?

still I hope that cop at least get sued and has to pay hefty fines, because trigger happy cops are a threat to everyone.
It's disappointing that you feel that way.

Surely a seizure isnt enough to directly kill someone before animal control could arrive, I would have risked a bite instead of shooting it though.
Sure, they could have sat there waiting for animal control or whatever, but to me it looked like they didn't have a lot of time to react and get people a safe distance away from the situation, and the dog was already attacking people. As for risking a "bite", its easy to say that you would do that, and maybe you would have... but you were not the one who actually had to make the choice on the spot. And I'm not an expert on dogs, but by the sounds of it pitbulls can do a lot more than just "bite"...
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Taylor_P on August 19, 2012, 09:19:46 am

It's disappointing that you feel that way.


Well Hess, allow me explain in more details what I meant. Here in the US anyone can be sued and held accountable for there actions, so if the guy who was having a seizure deiced to sue the officer personally and not the NYPD or City of New York, Then hes most likely going to win and that's how justice works in the county, even doing the right thing or sometimes the wrong thing can be spun into your favor. Even if its police protocol, or just the right thing and hell  if the man went to a group like PETA, hell he'd have a free lawyer willing to sue that officer so much that he'd be sued into bankruptcy and his family would be in financial trouble for years, that's why on my first post I was undecided on who I felt sorry for more.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Chris_Knight on August 19, 2012, 09:46:38 am
The funny part how people spread they ideas over internet "how cop should have reacted" . While if you put anyone out of this crowd not able shoot the dog on charge,would lose an arm or even worse,dog might went totally out of control and cause chaos,damage  multiple people in nearby. 

You can't hit an pit bull and hope he won't f**k you up afterwards,this is not "in my view point it works'' scenario over internet about idea,it's about protecting owners life,police life,and people around.

I definitely care about animals,and I'm glad dog is being taken care of and is not dead,however you have to do what you got to do,and can you hold the pressure and press the trigger for good only can answer an officer being in certain situation,not people over internet and they cool story's about comparing an non related example .
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Hess on August 19, 2012, 02:09:21 pm
The funny part how people spread they ideas over internet "how cop should have reacted" . While if you put anyone out of this crowd not able shoot the dog on charge,would lose an arm or even worse,dog might went totally out of control and cause chaos,damage  multiple people in nearby. 

You can't hit an pit bull and hope he won't f**k you up afterwards,this is not "in my view point it works'' scenario over internet about idea,it's about protecting owners life,police life,and people around.

I definitely care about animals,and I'm glad dog is being taken care of and is not dead,however you have to do what you got to do,and can you hold the pressure and press the trigger for good only can answer an officer being in certain situation,not people over internet and they cool story's about comparing an non related example .
Exactly.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Reece on August 19, 2012, 02:28:07 pm
If the officer hadn't shot it, there could of been a repeat of this:

Dog attacks police officers in east London (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foiPiFWM2IA#)
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 19, 2012, 07:20:03 pm
So Amy Winehouse is not dead? :wow:

According to wikipedia, 8-17% of people with epilepsy die while having a seizure. I would rather shoot a dog than play russian roulette..
I'm not a doctor so I wouldn't know much on seizures, I just assumed it wouldn't have killed the man and I guess I was wrong. :razz:
And JDC said the dog is alive? Is that true? If so I'm happy that the dog is alive and can go back to it's owner, after all it was only trying to protect him.

If the officer hadn't shot it, there could of been a repeat of this:

Dog attacks police officers in east London (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foiPiFWM2IA#)
Wow, is this a pitbul? If so this is why they are banned from the UK, not long ago there was a story in the Echo about a gran who owned a pitbal, had her grandchild stay over and the pit ripped him to peices and killed him, the cops had to use something like an MP5 to kill it.

And was the British cops shooting the pit in the video dead? And how come the Pit was so still before they shot it?
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Ratko Gavrilovic on August 19, 2012, 07:22:35 pm
I'm not a doctor so I wouldn't know much on seizures, I just assumed it wouldn't have killed the man and I guess I was wrong. :razz:
And JDC said the dog is alive? Is that true? If so I'm happy that the dog is alive and can go back to it's owner, after all it was only trying to protect him.
Even if it still is alive I doubt it will be able to function normally.
A bullet through the head probably corrupted something.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 19, 2012, 07:25:57 pm
Even if it still is alive I doubt it will be able to function normally.
A bullet through the head probably corrupted something.
My guess is it's blind in one eye if it is still alive, it appears the cop shot him on the right side of his head as you can see in the video the pitbul is sticking his head to the right in the air as if it's in pain directly there.. :roll:
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Grant_Norris on August 19, 2012, 09:09:24 pm
I think not because the officer shot the dog but hearing the cry's coming from the dog after he was shot that made the matter worse and made the buy standers more angry yell at the cop.

But then again people would find any reason to yell theses words "FUCK THE POLICE!!"  :neutral:
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 19, 2012, 10:55:35 pm
I think not because the officer shot the dog but hearing the cry's coming from the dog after he was shot that made the matter worse and made the buy standers more angry yell at the cop.

But then again people would find any reason to yell theses words "f**k THE POLICE!!"  :neutral:
I'm not sure about American cops but I know British cops (in some forces) wear steel toecap boots, I'm sure 1 kick of them would have been more than enough to hurt then dog and keep it alive instead of shooting it, in this instance, I say f**k the police, or the officer that shot the dog..
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 20, 2012, 03:40:31 am
Well Hess, allow me explain in more details what I meant. Here in the US anyone can be sued and held accountable for there actions, so if the guy who was having a seizure deiced to sue the officer personally and not the NYPD or City of New York, Then hes most likely going to win and that's how justice works in the county, even doing the right thing or sometimes the wrong thing can be spun into your favor. Even if its police protocol, or just the right thing and hell  if the man went to a group like PETA, hell he'd have a free lawyer willing to sue that officer so much that he'd be sued into bankruptcy and his family would be in financial trouble for years, that's why on my first post I was undecided on who I felt sorry for more.
That is actually not true. Yes, the man can sue the officer in civil court, but if he is proved to have done things according to Department protocol, then no, the man would not win the case. The officer would. Same goes for any criminal court hearings and investigations...including that of the one of the shooting.

@Chris: Very well said, and that just about sums it up for this topic. When fight or flight kicks in, you aren't thinking the same as when you are sitting at a computer, typing something out online.

@Hess' response: Perfectly explained. You nailed every single point I was trying to make there. Well done! :)
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Taylor_P on August 20, 2012, 09:17:43 am
That is actually not true. Yes, the man can sue the officer in civil court, but if he is proved to have done things according to Department protocol, then no, the man would not win the case. The officer would. Same goes for any criminal court hearings and investigations...including that of the one of the shooting.

Then at that point the man could sue the department pending on the animal cruelty laws of the state and then a case like that would most likely go to the States Supreme courts to be deiced on. In America you can keep a case going on for a long time so long as there is merit in the case all the way up to the National Supreme court. Dont believe me Sugar look how a man like OJ Simpson can get off a murder charge even with evidence against him that proves otherwise. Many people dont understand the laws as lawmakers themselves don't either care to read all the fine print or are being back by lobbyist who benefit from said laws, and dont question the laws quite sad actually.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 20, 2012, 10:12:39 pm
Then at that point the man could sue the department pending on the animal cruelty laws of the state and then a case like that would most likely go to the States Supreme courts to be deiced on. In America you can keep a case going on for a long time so long as there is merit in the case all the way up to the National Supreme court. Dont believe me Sugar look how a man like OJ Simpson can get off a murder charge even with evidence against him that proves otherwise. Many people dont understand the laws as lawmakers themselves don't either care to read all the fine print or are being back by lobbyist who benefit from said laws, and dont question the laws quite sad actually.
I think you have misunderstood the American justice system. OJ Simpson got off on technicalities and loopholes, likely pushed through via other corrupt and/or sneaky methods. That has nothing to do with this incident.

As for animal cruelty laws, that is not animal cruelty. Yes, it is unfortunate, but even the ASPCA would denounce this as self-defense. Just like with humans, you cannot control what an animal will do when it becomes dangerous towards an individual.

As for the Supreme Courts, (although I don't agree with our system for this), animal cruelty laws aren't covered by the Constitution nor the Supreme Courts, state or federal. That means the case would never go that far.

As for the comment: "In America you can keep a case going on for a long time so long as there is merit in the case all the way up to the National Supreme court."
Not necessarily true. The Supreme Court only deals with laws regarding Constitutional rights and infringement of such. Unless a Constitutional law, statement, or right is being infringed upon, the Supreme Court holds no authority over any civil or criminal cases.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: duffman on August 20, 2012, 10:34:35 pm
The cop did the right thing, cut the bullshit over here.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 20, 2012, 10:39:07 pm
I'm not sure about American cops but I know British cops (in some forces) wear steel toecap boots, I'm sure 1 kick of them would have been more than enough to hurt then dog and keep it alive instead of shooting it, in this instance, I say f**k the police, or the officer that shot the dog..
I think kicking a dog to death is worse as shooting it. But hey, you are the animal lover...
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 21, 2012, 05:45:00 am
I think kicking a dog to death is worse as shooting it. But hey, you are the animal lover...

Ironic how some people would rather see the dog being kicked to death (which can result in multiple bone fractures and internal organ damage) than receiving a bullet wound (which destroys much less tissues) which does not even have a 100% chance of being fatal.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Y2JFaN on August 21, 2012, 01:14:01 pm
I'm not sure about American cops but I know British cops (in some forces) wear steel toecap boots, I'm sure 1 kick of them would have been more than enough to hurt then dog and keep it alive instead of shooting it, in this instance, I say f**k the police, or the officer that shot the dog..
Yes f**k the police and f**k that officer for signing up and risking his life to even become an officer, and f**k him to responding to a desperate situation and not allowing an uncontrolled defensive pitbull scare, threaten, and eventually attack/assault/bite innocent people or himself, and I think f**k him for being human and making such a decision in a crowded area under a lot of stress.


I think what most people here miss is the fact the officer had not even reached for his Gun until the pitbull started rushing for him. Don't you think if he was some bastard cop who was abusive of his power he would have subdued the pitbull (possible by shooting) before it charged for him? It is clearly obvious for anyone who has put thought into this that it was a desperate, last chance decision. The phrase 'Lesser of two evils' comes into mind here.

Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Radagast on August 21, 2012, 01:36:13 pm
Nobody loves dogs more than me, but I would have hacked minigun and 9999 bullets, using them all on this dog.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Dolfagr on August 21, 2012, 03:02:50 pm
Nobody loves dogs more than me, but I would have hacked minigun and 9999 bullets, using them all on this dog.

At least that would not make it cry so sadly..
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 21, 2012, 03:31:06 pm
I think kicking a dog to death is worse as shooting it. But hey, you are the animal lover...
My house has lots of pets, 17 chickens, 2 dogs, fish, birds, rabbits, I might aswell count my 4 sisters and 1 brother as animals too with the mess they make.. :roll:
Anyway I don't mean kick the dog to death, what I meant is kick it atleast to make it stop being agressive and maybe show it not to fuck with humans without shooting it's eye out..
Sure Pitbulls are the most aggressive dog on the planet (One that can be tamed as a pet anyway, unlike wild dogs..), but if they were going to shoot it, atleast shoot it more to put it out of it's misery faster instead of leaving it roll round on the floor crying in pain.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Radagast on August 21, 2012, 03:40:23 pm
The threat was neutralized. That's the most important thing in a situation like that, not whether or not it's suffering.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Dolfagr on August 21, 2012, 05:13:06 pm
The threat was neutralized. That's the most important thing in a situation like that, not whether or not it's suffering.

That would be correct if everyone had the same point of view regarding the subject.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Radagast on August 21, 2012, 05:16:37 pm
I'm speaking as an animal-lover, and I can see the other side. Those who can't really need to have their heads checked. Human life is more important, even and especially in that case.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Gandalf on August 21, 2012, 06:45:27 pm
My house has lots of pets, 17 chickens, 2 dogs, fish, birds, rabbits, I might aswell count my 4 sisters and 1 brother as animals too with the mess they make.. :roll:
Anyway I don't mean kick the dog to death, what I meant is kick it atleast to make it stop being agressive and maybe show it not to f**k with humans without shooting it's eye out..
Sure Pitbulls are the most aggressive dog on the planet (One that can be tamed as a pet anyway, unlike wild dogs..), but if they were going to shoot it, atleast shoot it more to put it out of it's misery faster instead of leaving it roll round on the floor crying in pain.
A pit bull is certainly not an agressive dog. In fact most people who see one will not even understant its reputation. What sets a pit bull apart from other dogs and earned its reputation is that they do not have the possibility to reconsider their attack. If they attack, which is only if they are either trained badly or, as in this case, feel they have to protect the only way to stop the attack is to fully incapacitate the dog.
They will not back off because someone kicked them, because they broke a leg or are missing an ear.
The only way to stop them is to full incapacitate, once they reach this breaking point.
If trained well, this point of no return is not reached unless in special ciscumstances and a pit bull can be a very good companion and family dog.
The reason the officer did the right thing is not because every dog should be shot in such a situation. It is not because a pit bull is an overly agressive dog. It is the combination of the pit bull being brought in a situation where it would reach a point of no return and the need to save a human life.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: [WS]Jacob on August 21, 2012, 08:27:56 pm
I'm not sure about American cops but I know British cops (in some forces) wear steel toecap boots, I'm sure 1 kick of them would have been more than enough to hurt then dog and keep it alive instead of shooting it, in this instance, I say f**k the police, or the officer that shot the dog..
I don't think anyone would dare kick that dog. It would make it more angry and would not stop the threat. British cops would probably just get in there cars and drive off, leave it to the animal authorities.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 21, 2012, 10:42:02 pm
Analysis for those who were still not able to grasp how and why the officer chose "the lesser of two evils".

Sure Pitbulls are the most aggressive dog on the planet (One that can be tamed as a pet anyway, unlike wild dogs..), but if they were going to shoot it, atleast shoot it more to put it out of it's misery faster instead of leaving it roll round on the floor crying in pain.
If the officer shot the dog repeatedly or ensured it was dead, it would not have been given the chance to live as it is now.

In such a situation where he had less time to react (making it impossible to call animal control), the officer had three options:

- Avoid / run from the dog
- Kick the dog until it is incapacitated
- Shoot the dog repeatedly
- Shoot the dog once

The first option was not the best course of action, as the pitbull in its state then could have attacked somebody else, which is not a very good idea with the unconscious man on the ground. If the necessity came to shoot the dog when it was already attacking somebody else (rather than if the dog was about to charge at the shooter), there is the additional risk of shooting that person.

With the second option, given the nature of pitbulls once they reach the point of no return, most likely the dog would have had several broken limbs, fractured ribs, and damaged internal organs before it became incapacitated, not to mention as well the very real possibility of the dog dying from internal injuries.

With the third option, the pitbull does not suffer internal injuries as in the second option, but it has no possibility to survive as it was shot to ensure death. While it may not be rolling around the ground and crying in such a pitiful manner, it was deprived of the chance to survive.

The fourth option is what the officer carried out. While the pitbull's suffering might look unacceptable to some, it was protected from greater suffering (broken bones and internal organs) and given the chance to live.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: [WS]Jacob on August 21, 2012, 10:52:24 pm
The fourth option is what the officer carried out. While the pitbull's suffering might look unacceptable to some, it was protected from greater suffering (broken bones and internal organs) and given the chance to live.
But has it?
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 21, 2012, 10:58:14 pm
But has it?
If it wasn't killed, then yes.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 21, 2012, 11:08:43 pm
But has it?

The dog is currently alive and under care, and can go back to its owner soon.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 21, 2012, 11:49:31 pm
The dog is currently alive and under care, and can go back to its owner soon.
What condition would it be in after being shot in the head?
After reading some of these comments I guess the cop did do right, but I'de atleast have aimed for a place less lethal than it's head like it's rear end or legs.. :redface:
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: SugarD on August 22, 2012, 12:01:05 am
What condition would it be in after being shot in the head?
After reading some of these comments I guess the cop did do right, but I'de atleast have aimed for a place less lethal than it's head like it's rear end or legs.. :redface:
Well keep in mind that officers are trained to shoot to kill if they must open fire. Using their firearm is supposed to be a last resort, and if used, supposed to be effective at just that.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: [WS]Jacob on August 22, 2012, 12:07:37 am
The dog is currently alive and under care, and can go back to its owner soon.
Then the officer did the right thing. A good outcome.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 22, 2012, 01:15:22 am
What condition would it be in after being shot in the head?
After reading some of these comments I guess the cop did do right, but I'de atleast have aimed for a place less lethal than it's head like it's rear end or legs.. :redface:

With an angry dog charging towards you at high speed and very little time to react, the place of aim is not exactly a choice.

Also, not so sure if the leg is such a good place as you would have a dog that would have to walk for the rest of its life on 3 legs.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 22, 2012, 04:37:58 pm
With an angry dog charging towards you at high speed and very little time to react, the place of aim is not exactly a choice.

Also, not so sure if the leg is such a good place as you would have a dog that would have to walk for the rest of its life on 3 legs.
I've seen lots of 3 legged dogs IRL, they live the rest of their lives just fine.. :roll:
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Grant_Norris on August 23, 2012, 02:05:51 am
The cop did the right thing, cut the bullshit over here.

+1
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: JDC on August 23, 2012, 04:09:54 am
I've seen lots of 3 legged dogs IRL, they live the rest of their lives just fine.. :roll:

Better for a dog though to live their life with a scar on the head than with three legs.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Mikal on August 23, 2012, 03:20:20 pm
Better for a dog though to live their life with a scar on the head than with three legs.
But what if the bullet it got in it's head caused it brain damage not just a scar...? :trust:
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: [WS]Jacob on August 23, 2012, 03:42:35 pm
You can go on with the 'what ifs' all day long. The fact is that the cop caused minimal damage to the animal whilst stopping it from being a threat.
Title: Re: NYPD cop shooting charging pit bull
Post by: Grant_Norris on August 27, 2012, 11:29:40 pm
You can go on with the 'what ifs' all day long. The fact is that the cop caused minimal damage to the animal whilst stopping it from being a threat.

 :hurray:
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