Why is oppression being enforced on unofficial groups?

[Plam_Knight]

So when it's convenient, we compare Argonath to RL, but when it's not, we yell that this isn't RL?

And in response to Teddy...

In order to combat crime, sure. What about in order to experience something new, something different, something more complicated than chasing suspects and shooting them? Yes, you can do that in SAPD, but you've got a ton of regulations on your head if you do, some of which may limit what you're trying to achieve.

RS5 seems to have that "New beginnings" thing going on quite a bit, what with likely (judging by the responses in other topics) money and estate reset, yet one thing remains, first come first serve as far as unofficial police groups turning into official ones go. Right now the only way you can get your idea an official one is to achieve high rank in SAPD and proposing a new division you might lead.

And sure, I realise that having 10 groups that won't respond to a call because they're established in Blueberry and won't move away is not a good thing, but at least cut some slack, offer some script support and relieve them of some regulations if they restrict them if you are able to propose something good, something that won't combat current police force, but will enhance it, make it better.

Cheers.

Seems you are yet misguided, but pretty fast on the posting. Okay then lets dig in!

First, point to me where are those tons of regulations, because in the regulations topic made by Sushi I see 3 different sections(Regulations/Protcols/Procedures). Now if I am not wrong regulations actually means only regulations, which is about 1 page long and inside there are basic regulations, that prevents SAPD going wild with the permissions they are granted up the ladder. And now you are complaining about the regulations, tomorrow you will end up on the criminal side and if we remove those regulations, you will cry your ass off how cops are allowed to do everything and they are even granted equipment to do so. Therfore I will take your opinion on this as obviously misguided and one sided. Once you look upon this problem from all sides, you can try again.

Second, during the past few years, we've had quite few groups coming and going, some gave positive input, others negative and others just spammed all kind of different groups with different name, until their creators just got bored and dropped them. But still so far for the past years, about only 30% of the groups created, actually had some aim to assist the force,  by handling an area of expertise that was not handled until now by other division or the SAPD. Therfore you can't blame anybody for trying to filter those divisons and still provide them the fair chance of existance, simply giving them heads of what they should not become, which is obviously competition or simply attempting to take tasks which are simply approprite for groups with certain training.

Third, if script support is offered to every group that pops up, then anybody that wants something from the scripts will try to make a division, which will cause chaos as proven in the past.

An example even poped up here.

Sincerely yours,
Ex SAPD
Ex ARTP
Ex BCSD
Current RCSD Sheriff (on hiatus)

I  had a grand old time in BCSD - We enjoyed a prosperous relationship with LVPD and BCPD, and SAPD members used to knowledge share...which I'd say was helpful to the SAPD!

I'd enjoy doing what I did, again. At the end of the day, that's what matters

BCSD was one of the few divisions, I admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in.
Sadly these days people spend more time moaning, then actually putting effort and initiative in something innovative and actually new.

I would love to see some sheriff experience coming back to SAPD at later point by the way 

I'm sorry to say that, but your questions are really stupid, it appears you're replying here to show what a "smartass" you are, rather than debating something, anyways, you're representative of the criminal word, I dont even see how it concerns you.

And to answer your question - use logic - would you choose something, which offers roleplay, but no official support whatsoever, or something that gives you a dark blue name, gets rid of your "newbie" status, gives you a rank and free SMG? You can bullshit me you would "prefer RP over script support" all you want, but you'd just be lying to yourself. Before the block against unofficial groups, people could enjoy both.

I can't stop wondering, how does it come always at the end to you. Whatever involving ARPD/SAPD goes on, it always ends up with your name, but still atleast it shows you have somekind of interest in to... well something, because I still can't say wether its arguing or its actually the fun experience of the police job.

Considering all the questions, you've put in the past, I find only this one about the SMG relevant to answer, once and for all.
No offense, but SMG has been scripted weapon for officer for years and that hasn't stopped anybody from trying to be apart of any division.
Whoever found interest in to a group, they've never even thought twice about the 180 SMG bullets, they simply posted resignation and moved on.

Therfore if you actually have had anything worthy to offer to them, I really doubt anything would hold them back from joining you. Funny part is that the succseful divisions, some later on ending in a quite the bad ending, but still non of the less had a brilliant start, were always led by people who had a taste of SAPD. Which means before they actually attempted to make a division or thought about making a moaning topic long 5000 pages about SAPD, they actually gave it a try, saw what they dislike, like and how can they arrange that. And by trying I don't mean to be unable to finish the academy like you did few times, infact the people that led the succseful divisions, first made it up to Sgts/Lieutenants and once then they actually managed to make something right, simply because they took time to build somekind of picture of how things work, not to blame it on everybody around them and moan all day.

[CBFasi]

Well that's the point. I, personally, don't want to join SAPD.

Unfortunately even unofficial groups will have no choice but to be part of the greater ARPD (or SAPD as it will be known in RS5)

I have hopes that after RS5 has stabilized and players have got used to the new way, that unofficial police groups do chance to form but under guidance and with oversight of the ARPD/SAPD system.

It would seem the groups you have talked about are not the ones that caused the biggest problems, but they did stray too far from SAPD and ended up in conflict with what was already present and official.

Any unofficial group that conflicts with the ARPD system and staff WILL just get shut down at the soonest possibility.

After problems in the past I amongst many others will not let problems get the the state they got to in the past where significant harm was caused to members of the community, some of which is still felt today.

You may not like what your seeing for the future of SAPD, but give it a chance, even I can not be certain how it will work out (I did not design it) but I am willing to give it a go and do my best to make it work.

All I ask is that you do not consider our acts as oppression but extreme caution and concern over past problems from similar sources.

[Bruce.]

Well that's the point. I, personally, don't want to join SAPD.

Wait aren't you a SAPD applicant cause i think i saw you application there. :\

[Kirgiz]

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=31588.msg296165#msg296165


Seriously, why the heck did you create the topic then in the first place?!

[Pingster]

First, point to me where are those tons of regulations, because in the regulations topic made by Sushi I see 3 different sections(Regulations/Protcols/Procedures). Now if I am not wrong regulations actually means only regulations, which is about 1 page long and inside there are basic regulations, that prevents SAPD going wild with the permissions they are granted up the ladder. And now you are complaining about the regulations, tomorrow you will end up on the criminal side and if we remove those regulations, you will cry your ass off how cops are allowed to do everything and they are even granted equipment to do so. Therfore I will take your opinion on this as obviously misguided and one sided. Once you look upon this problem from all sides, you can try again.

You missed the part where I said some of them may limit you. And I'm so sorry for not saying regulations, protocol and procedures each time, instead shortening it to regulations without having to shorten it to RPP, which not everyone would know dafuq I'm on about.

Fact is, in practice they're all the same for the most part anyway. Failure to follow them would result in punishment/being given out to regardless.

[Julio.]

I don't often stick my nose into these things anymore, but in this case I just couldn't help myself.

Some of my most enjoyable times, personally, were linked into the Dillimore Police Department, aye, sheriff RP. I seem to remember at the time we didn't seem to have too bad a relationship with these unofficial groups that got involved and wanted to RP with us. The whole SAPD for me was based around fun RP, and at the time I felt the only fun police RP was as a sheriff, hence why I left when DPD was shut down. At the time, unofficial groups, on the whole, actually participated in better role play than the majority of those in the official PDs.

[benasack2000]

Even in the US, there are different branches of law enforcement.

Local, State, Federal Police
FBI
DEA
Federal Marshalls
Homeland Security (Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Customs and Border Protection, US Coast Guard, US Immigration Enforcement, US Secret Service)
ATF
Department of Corrections
State Police
Highway Patrol
Sheriffs Department
Emergency Services Unit


Why limit players to the horizons of new RP groups just because there "are no official groups like that in Argonath"

[MikeSangelo]

I'm really surprised this topic keeps popping up about unofficial groups when the answer has been give time and time again on the ARPD forums, all you need is to use the search tool.

[Gandalf]

Even in the US, there are different branches of law enforcement.

Local, State, Federal Police
FBI
DEA
Federal Marshalls
Homeland Security (Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Customs and Border Protection, US Coast Guard, US Immigration Enforcement, US Secret Service)
ATF
Department of Corrections
State Police
Highway Patrol
Sheriffs Department
Emergency Services Unit


Why limit players to the horizons of new RP groups just because there "are no official groups like that in Argonath"

There is no limit if people will accept roleplay. There is only a limit if a group wishes the right to kill orange dots and earn money from it.

Typical scenario for unofficial groups:
1. Does not get promoted in SAPD
2. Calls those who do get promotion asslickers and leadership corrupt
3. Gets fired for his remarks / leaves before he gets fired
4. Starts a new cool group that is 'better RP'.
5. Initiates topics about why they can not get the script support.

[Huntsman]

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=31588.msg296165#msg296165


Seriously, why the heck did you create the topic then in the first place?!

To rise up the issue community wide.

Wait aren't you a SAPD applicant cause i think i saw you application there. :\

Correct, but I submitted it a while ago and went very inactive ever since. I have just recently returned and only yesterday I have noticed that it isnt burried in the denial section yet, so I have decided to give it a try anyways. Still, that's not really relevant to the issue im trying to rise up here.

BCSD was one of the few divisions, I admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in.
Sadly these days people spend more time moaning, then actually putting effort and initiative in something innovative and actually new.

I would love to see some sheriff experience coming back to SAPD at later point by the way

Me and Ben have re-united yesterday and have been thinking of re-opening BCSD, but then we have given it second thoughts and realised that it would be difficult to get it up and running again. What made BCSD great and successful back in the day was the fact that SAPD did not restrict unofficial groups from recruiting SAPD personel, therefore a lot of people from SAPD has joined and have bringed a lot of SAPD proffesionalism to the group. Others have learned from these SAPD officers and later become an unseperable part of SAPD themselves. Ironic that me, who has founded and lead the division into the success it had, had so many tries to pass the academy,but usually got fired for shitting, and I only became an officer once, and then again got fired because I gave the chance to do so for somebody who didn't like me from the very beggining...

I can't stop wondering, how does it come always at the end to you. Whatever involving ARPD/SAPD goes on, it always ends up with your name, but still atleast it shows you have somekind of interest in to... well something, because I still can't say wether its arguing or its actually the fun experience of the police job.

I admire SAPD and what it's trying to do, but what I do not like is the ways that are being used in order to achieve its' goals and objectives. SAPD was never so restrictable as it is now, let's admit it...

Considering all the questions, you've put in the past, I find only this one about the SMG relevant to answer, once and for all.
No offense, but SMG has been scripted weapon for officer for years and that hasn't stopped anybody from trying to be apart of any division.
Whoever found interest in to a group, they've never even thought twice about the 180 SMG bullets, they simply posted resignation and moved on.

You did not really understand what I meant, or probably I might have expressed it in a manner that was difficult to understand. Anyways, what I had in mind is:

Unofficial ARPD group: Offers roleplay and is not restrictive, however it has a risk of: Shutting down any moment, being shut down by ARPD any moment, has no official support whatsoever.
Official SAPD dpt.: Offers roleplay, script support, dark blue name, but is restrictive and the SMG comes along.

IT might look stupid at first, but face it - everyone is looking for benefits, and SAPD is a lot more beneficial to them. However, when people arent forced to choose between SAPD and unofficial division (like they did in the past), they can enjoy the both.

Which means before they actually attempted to make a division or thought about making a moaning topic long 5000 pages about SAPD, they actually gave it a try, saw what they dislike, like and how can they arrange that. And by trying I don't mean to be unable to finish the academy like you did few times, infact the people that led the succseful divisions, first made it up to Sgts/Lieutenants and once then they actually managed to make something right,

The irony is that when I opened BCSD, I never have even made it past the SAPD Academy phase and I constantly got fired for attitude issues. Funny, yet how, judging from what You have said yourself, I have managed to open something that "was one of the few divisions you admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in. " It seems that you're trying to imply that somebody who has never been in SAPD cannot be a great officer. Now, why BCSD got successful if I never made it into the SAPD? The fact that before opening it I served as a freecop for about two years, i have studied the regulations, codes and observed the way SAPD works. You do not need to be SAPD to be expierenced, all you need is dedication. Never forget that.

[Pingster]

I think the beauty of being a freecop over being an officer is the freedom to do as you wish even while on duty. If you get caught, the worst that can happen is a copban, which is/should be temporary, instead of getting fired from your existing position in a group, which stays on the record forever and ever. That let's you do so much more than being an officer, that's the reason I've not regretted being fired from FBI or going inactive as SAPD Cadet. The regulations that disallow higher ranks to do as they wish off-duty reinforce that even more, and that's why I was honestly sad to hear implications that being a criminal who happens to kill someone now and then will make /duty'ing unavailable, no clue on what the system is yet, though.

You won't often see a corrupt SAPD Officer, never mind a high rank, because they wouldn't be too happy about losing months if not years of hard work, never mind public shitstorm.


I guess we'll just have to start drowning people and throwing them off cliffs, follow Aragorn's lead as Gandalf suggested. Expect fatal accident count to rise.

[Dean.]

The goal of starting your own group can have multiple reasons. Some start it because they want to create their own creative thing, no problem there.
The other, dark side, starts it because they want power. They want to make their own group so they can play by their rules and play bossy bossman by controlling other people. Another problem is that most groups enforce the same thing as already existing official groups. For example, DEA vs FBI. DEA was created because (some) people thought that no one was enforcing narcotics, while that is actually the FBI and SAPD (SAUD/ASID) their job.

Other groups which did not have this problem were either not enough developed or just useless.

[Huntsman]

The goal of starting your own group can have multiple reasons. Some start it because they want to create their own creative thing, no problem there.
The other, dark side, starts it because they want power. They want to make their own group so they can play by their rules and play bossy bossman by controlling other people. Another problem is that most groups enforce the same thing as already existing official groups. For example, DEA vs FBI. DEA was created because (some) people thought that no one was enforcing narcotics, while that is actually the FBI and SAPD (SAUD/ASID) their job.

Other groups which did not have this problem were either not enough developed or just useless.

ASID did not exist when DEA was around. And by the way, you, yourself, were part of BCSD, right? Why would you say that it was undeveloped or useless since it didn't have such problem?

[Kostas]

After reading the whole first page and a little bit of the second I would like to express my opinion.

First of all as most of you might have notices its been about 2 years since I was a full-time officer . As I had been doing it for about half a year I got to say that I do remember many things from it. At that period I was a member of BCSD and sortly also a member of SAPD . While I was theorically part of two departments I was actually part of only one . I was part of the DPD which was an exceptional department at those times with a lot of fun and special things .

BCSD was what kept me active while being an SAPD Applicant and made me have a lot of fun and actually get ready for my SAPD carrier . AFter getting accepted and managing to get my Officer Rank I kept working on both of them . For a few months I could easily fullfill both my BCSD Captain Rank and my DPD Officer Rank .

If I was made to choose between the two departments I would be really upset and its a shame that the corrent officers have to . BCSD was recognised by the most police officers as we were pretty active covering very efficiently our area . We were abled to co-operate with all of the rest official departments without any problem .

So yeah . I do not see a single reason why police officers cannot join both official and unofficial departments? Aww and by the way , many SAPD Officers+ are part of many "SAPD Divisions" so yeah , time is not a reason .... If you want you can be part of more than 2 Divisions/Departments .

[Ben.]

I'm sure this was meant to be a serious topic with questions, but the last couple of pages are just making me reminisce! More of those times to come, I'm sure