Enough is enough, the rules apply for all

[Cyril]

You guys don't understand that it's not new player fault if you are abused or DMed or whatever.
It's the community fault by not welcoming there, introducing them to the server, trying to help them out.
Few players used to drive to LSAP to welcome new players and give them a guided tour, explaining how things work here.
If more players were doing that instead of talking crap on main chat 24/7 or driving around without any purpose, the server quality would increase and we would have more players.

[Stivi]

You guys don't understand that it's not new player fault if you are abused or DMed or whatever.
It's the community fault by not welcoming there, introducing them to the server, trying to help them out.
Few players used to drive to LSAP to welcome new players and give them a guided tour, explaining how things work here.
If more players were doing that instead of talking crap on main chat 24/7 or driving around without any purpose, the server quality would increase and we would have more players.

There's no more /hduty on/off. Recruit more moderators if that's a problem.

[KelviNC]

Here we go! You came up with an idea. Then bring an introduction view before a new player registers.

[Arslan]

Text

Still didn't answer my question but okay.
People come to the server to have a chat with people on main chat and some times its crap but they enjoy it + main chat is one of the reasons I like playing here - its funny, entertaining and you find out new things sometimes. Man I don't understand what you mean? Its like you want everyone to be sitting at LSAP with cars waiting for new players to arrive and start helping them.

Its is up to the players when they do and don't want to help new players and should remain that way without a manager saying 'did you help anyone today?' 'Nah not today didn't feel like it.' ' oh okay, don't ever come to me with any problem you may face on the server'.

[Cyril]

Its is up to the players when they do and don't want to help new players and should remain that way without a manager saying 'did you help anyone today?' 'Nah not today didn't feel like it.' ' oh okay, don't ever come to me with any problem you may face on the server'.

Why not? I'm a player, and as everyone is equal here, if you ask me for help, I can just answer "No, I don't feel like helping today".

[Arslan]

Why not? I'm a player, and as everyone is equal here, if you ask me for help, I can just answer "No, I don't feel like helping today".

There is a difference between answering a few questions or giving directions to someone if they are stuck and babysitting them until you've taught them everything they need to know to be a good player.

[CharlieKasper]

Why you twisting my words? Did I say anything like that? I didn't say no one wants to help new or old players. My question was towards Cyril about saying it is it is obligatory to help new players. Argonath gets new players nearly everyday. Players go in to RP and have fun. And I don't think having a official status means you have to help players 24/7.

Nobody asks to help a new player 24/7 but if Stivi's complaining about it, he has faced it and in which case he's supposed to help the guy he's facing the issue with, that's for being from an official group. We don't ask you to go around LSAP and help every new player you see but if you are having a personal problem with a new player, you as a part of an official group should help him instead of complaining on forums or public chat.
Not obligatory to help new players, but if you don't help, that removes your right to complain. Just /report and move on, don't complain.

Hell there are even times when I don't want to help anyone but just play with my friends.

That's the point which we are try to explain you guys since last few weeks. You have to extend the time before a new player could join police duty. Without any knowledge about the role and hopes, how do you expect them not to break rules. Let them understand the things first. If the management team would not give any responce then for sure poeple will complain.

Do you not use any logic? How can a player understand something without even experiencing it?

I give you a car for the first time and instruct you how to slowly accelerate.Can YOU drive it without having any problem (dropping the clutch way too early, as an example of a problem) for the very first time you TRY it?
Absolutely not, not one has ever done done. There's no point in theory until something has been put to practice. Not allowing players to join police duty without passport would just delay the problem to a later date. The faster they learn, the better.

[AK47]

Stop blaming everything on the new players.

[Miller786]

I'm not entirely in favor of automation either, but I point out that things had to reach this level because we have too much regulars and "veterans" who turn up their noses at new players.

*Newplayer joins server*
Newplayer: "hi, i am new what i do on this server"
Regular: "f**k off, I'm too busy focusing on my own roleplay. I have no time to help new players like you."
*regular doesn't teach new player*
*Newplayer breaks rules out of ignorance*
Regular: "OMG ADMINS THIS NOOB IS DMING ME WE NEED MORE LIMITS ON NEW PLAYERS"

Such logic.

i have seen this happening more than once.

[Devin]

I am rather bored of these pointless arguments, the least a veteran player and community member could do is to assist players if they see a player in need.
No this does not mean you MUST help new players but giving new players a hand every so often will not kill you.

Stop blaming new players for shit, stop blaming administrators for not doing every single thing including babysitting you all when someone breaks a damn rule.

The point of the server is fun, helping others at times is the least veterans can do after all administration has done for them in the past.

[Solis]

If you thought I was typing those lines verbatim rather than how the train of thought works, then your common sense needs improvement.

I cba to post such singular instances as I have better things to do than lie in wait for the next regular who doesn't give a f**k about new players. But if you really want me or someone else to, and you become guilty of this, don't pull up any regrets or excuses if your or your friends' names are posted for all the world to see.

In the real [Argonath] world, different from the distant, theoretical realm of people who value roleplay and exclusivity over being nice to others, this actually happens a lot. Or else, we wouldn't even need it to be a specialized task of Moderators in the first place. We even have examples in this very topic.

If you weren't serious with that example then you should have brought up a more realistic one, because anyone who has read your posts, then that one, would believe you were being serious, and would know that such cases don't happen.

For one, nobody who focuses on his role-play has told some newbie asking for help to f**k off. Second, and this is the real reason I disagreed with your post and many other here, is that such new players as in your example don't really exist.


From my own experience in 5 years interacting with new players, the ones that break the rules rarely if ever ask for help beforehand, in fact they don't even say anything on main chat. The ones that ask for help usually don't do any rule-break, and get picked up and helped by a Good Samaritan.

In contrast, the rule-breakers normally either are mute or speak in a foreign language, and don't care about what the server is about. They go straight to the closest dot they see on the radar and being punching them or ramming them with their vehicle. They won't even listen to you, they'll just continue doing what they're doing until an admin stops them, and only then do they semi-understand what they shouldn't do, and only because they've already been caught. A good example of what I'm talking about was posted by Manas on this topic:

ABUSE NO.2



Note - He got punished by admin with a tempban of 17mins, Again thanks Slavik and Leon.

So it's not actually a moot point to say that new players will understand if you simply help and teach them. Some may will, but it's not a golden stick with which you can solve the rule-breaking that occurs daily.

Which is why it's even more disappointing and cringe-worthy to see the way admins treat regular players on this thread, telling them they should either futilely teach the rule-breakers or just suck it up, even going to the point of mocking /reports as "moaning" and "babysitting". Specially these posts:

Don't expect admins to teach everyone, if you do think admins have to teach every new players, then don't complain next time you report someone and no one is answering your report.

Why not? I'm a player, and as everyone is equal here, if you ask me for help, I can just answer "No, I don't feel like helping today".

Do you not use any logic? How can a player understand something without even experiencing it?

I give you a car for the first time and instruct you how to slowly accelerate.Can YOU drive it without having any problem (dropping the clutch way too early, as an example of a problem) for the very first time you TRY it?
Absolutely not, not one has ever done done. There's no point in theory until something has been put to practice. Not allowing players to join police duty without passport would just delay the problem to a later date. The faster they learn, the better.

In real life people don't learn how to properly drive a vehicle by crashing into every pedestrian, lamp post, vehicle and house down the road, like new players seem to learn how being police officer works. They learn in a very secured and monitored environment with a guide next to them, and they must already have some experience and requisites beforehand (minimum age, documents, at least knowing how a vehicle works, etc.).

Police officer, even in-game, is a dynamic job, which means the situations are usually not the same and ever-changing, so theory alone won't always work. That doesn't mean people wouldn't already learn a lot with theory and a week-long experience before becoming a police officer.

[Arslan]

No this does not mean you MUST help new players but giving new players a hand every so often will not kill you.

The point of the server is fun, helping others at times is the least veterans can do after all administration has done for them in the past.

Yeah, that's what I mean and I have no problem with that.

Not obligatory to help new players, but if you don't help, that removes your right to complain.

That's the same as saying unless you help new player I don't give a shit about any problem you may have so you are making it obligatory. Anyways Devin basically summed it up and i'll leave it at that.

Lastly the best way to learn is by playing which is the whole point of a game and what makes it fun... Players don't want lessons on how to play, they get enough of that in school.

[Xander]

I am rather bored of these pointless arguments, the least a veteran player and community member could do is to assist players if they see a player in need.
No this does not mean you MUST help new players but giving new players a hand every so often will not kill you.

Stop blaming new players for shit, stop blaming administrators for not doing every single thing including babysitting you all when someone breaks a damn rule.

The point of the server is fun, helping others at times is the least veterans can do after all administration has done for them in the past.

Just because you grow bored of this, doesn't resolve the issue, don't be such a fool with a nonsense statement. I agree, people should aid eachother and it is everyones choice(except administrations) to help others out. If people break a rule, they will be blamed for it as they should be. It is up to them to accept it, fix it and move on. It is an administrators job to enforce the rules, you cannot punish everything that breaks a rule, but if they are repeat offenders they will be caught...and it seems they aren't if it's consistently happening. Yes the point of this whole community is fun, but when others are tainting it, how is that fun? All administration has done for who in the past? If it weren't for the normal community members, there would be NO COMMUNITY. The least you can do is help solve the problem instead of letting everyone know you're bored, as probably one of them care whether you are bored or entertained....they just want the problem solved.

[Devin]

Just because you grow bored of this, doesn't resolve the issue, don't be such a fool with a nonsense statement. I agree, people should aid eachother and it is everyones choice(except administrations) to help others out. If people break a rule, they will be blamed for it as they should be. It is up to them to accept it, fix it and move on. It is an administrators job to enforce the rules, you cannot punish everything that breaks a rule, but if they are repeat offenders they will be caught...and it seems they aren't if it's consistently happening. Yes the point of this whole community is fun, but when others are tainting it, how is that fun? All administration has done for who in the past? If it weren't for the normal community members, there would be NO COMMUNITY. The least you can do is help solve the problem instead of letting everyone know you're bored, as probably one of them care whether you are bored or entertained....they just want the problem solved.

And who the fuck are you?

An argument or discussion without any proper content is simply a waste of time.
If people that don't know how things function want to come about saying how things should be handled when they haven't a clue about the scripts and systems then they should think twice before trying to judge.

[Cyril]

if they are repeat offenders they will be caught...and it seems they aren't if it's consistently happening. Yes the point of this whole community is fun, but when others are tainting it, how is that fun?

Every regular/veteran that break more than 3 rules will be banned.
After all, they have no excuse.