Enough is enough, the rules apply for all

[Xander]

And who the f**k are you?

An argument or discussion without any proper content is simply a waste of time.
If people that don't know how things function want to come about saying how things should be handled when they haven't a clue about the scripts and systems then they should think twice before trying to judge.

Yet you think you are all knowing? Get off your high horse there bud, before you get knocked off of it. Also, no need to cuss, that's quite immature of you. I was a very active member of the community and in my days of absence I am still a member of the community, that's who the f**k I am. Now that is out of the way, we don't need to understand every little way the scripts work...we understand the fundamentals of the community and that is really all the community needs to know. So how about quit 'arguing' and do something about the problem that has been brought up to you. Do your job, or step down from any position you have. Quite simple really.

Every regular/veteran that break more than 3 rules will be banned.
After all, they have no excuse. 

Which is fine, so start doing it. They can read, they should be able to understand the rules, if someone breaks the rules multiple times, then they are out. it's nice that they get a chance or two, as they may not understand the rules since they are in English, but after that problem has been addressed everything should be good. So I agree with what you just stated, it should just happen more often as it seems to be an issue still....or Cofiliano wouldn't have made this topic.

[Devin]

Do your job, or step down from any position you have. Quite simple really.

Entertaining but no seeing as you have no idea what is going on within the server.
My "job" as you put it does not include listening to banter of those that haven't been around for months to know what's going on.

The "issue" that has been brought up is that people want to see others punished more instead of being guided more which would favour them.
If it's an old/experienced player breaking the rules then administration will deal with them accordingly by removing them from the server.

[Xander]

Entertaining but no seeing as you have no idea what is going on within the server.
My "job" as you put it does not include listening to banter of those that haven't been around for months to know what's going on.

The "issue" that has been brought up is that people want to see others punished more instead of being guided more which would favour them.
If it's an old/experienced player breaking the rules then administration will deal with them accordingly by removing them from the server.

The person originally 'bantering' was Cofiliano and multiple other community members, so I recommend you do your job and listen to what the community says. I am pretty sure that they just want to see some equality. Not your twisted idea. I don't need to be in the server to know that this issue has been going on for ages now, it isn't rocket science. So chill out, just attempt to help people out. Is it hard to help people in their time of need? New players need to be guided and taught, but what about when veterans need help because of an ongoing issue? Do you feel that you do not need to listen to them? That is what you are making it seem like.

[Devin]

I've done what I can and other HQ members have done what they can to help multiple people and have been dealing with this but it's apparent that some people don't read as it's easier to repeat the supposed matter instead of hearing out solutions.

If it's an old/experienced player breaking the rules then administration will deal with them accordingly by removing them from the server.

The administration team has been told to only act on rulebreaking when it comes to server rules, exactly like any other player. If they are breaking SAPD rules and procedures (if they are now SAPD and not FBI), they should be reported to SAPD.

I have seen 2 examples in here, /su abuse and deathmatching.

When it comes to /su abuse, it can be several solutions depending on how someone is abused through /su.

Lets say i'm getting randomly suspected by a player for a crime i haven't done. The officer that suspected me is only trying to arrest me, then it's a SAPD matter. /su was used correctly from a administrative PoV (aka to suspect someone) but the regulations SAPD have for /su was broken which means no server rule was broken.

If i would be randomly suspected by a police officer for a crime i have not done and then instantly killed, then it would be considered deathmatching and it becomes an administrative matter since the police officer broke a server rule.

The same with just deathmatching in general. If a police officer is deathmatching a player then it's an administrative matter and should be handled by a staff member online. They should not be reported to SAPD in that case.

I will bring this up on our next staff meeting to make sure that everyone is up to date on this matter.

[Xander]

I've done what I can and other HQ members have done what they can to help multiple people and have been dealing with this but it's apparent that some people don't read as it's easier to repeat the supposed matter instead of hearing out solutions.

Yet things rarely get done and the problem persists and gets worse. The exact opposite should happen if things were being done about it, like yea...the problem would go down. Everyone has a life outside of Argonath, I would hope, but when you have a job within a community to improve it any way you can, you do it. if you guys are up to your necks in dealing with issues, then recruit a couple of new moderators who are mature, don't go overboard but that may help the issues. I also know that you cannot willy nilly recruit someone, but that doesn't mean don't do it. The thing is, we are honestly on the same side of the fence in a way, as we mutually want things solved. You should quit thinking in a closed minded way, and open up. It isn't negative that people bring up these problems periodically, as it will hopefully bring action. Everyone wants to have fun, so give them that.

[Devin]

I have dedicated the last two+ years of my time to the SA:MP server and administration team doing all I could to favour the players, to do what I could to help out players and groups alike.
The hours upon hours of my time spent every week to keep things moving, to be there if players needed any kind of assistance with RS5 and the new scripts.
I have done what I can to bridge the gap between the HQ and players/groups by being responsive and active, I have done what I can to help get groups back on their feet once again within RS5 and to help new groups get started and in the right direction.
I somewhat doubt I am "closed minded" but if you feel that way, sure maybe I am when I grow tired of people saying things need to be done and HQ is ignoring them whilst the rest of the administration team and myself run around trying to come to a fair conclusion and solution to the matter.

As said multiple times, we do not ignore players asking for help or change however everything is to be discussed to ensure changes benefit administration and players alike to avoid issues and/or conflict.

Fair enough?

[Xander]

I have dedicated the last two+ years of my time to the SA:MP server and administration team doing all I could to favour the players, to do what I could to help out players and groups alike.
The hours upon hours of my time spent every week to keep things moving, to be there if players needed any kind of assistance with RS5 and the new scripts.
I have done what I can to bridge the gap between the HQ and players/groups by being responsive and active, I have done what I can to help get groups back on their feet once again within RS5 and to help new groups get started and in the right direction.
I somewhat doubt I am "closed minded" but if you feel that way, sure maybe I am when I grow tired of people saying things need to be done and HQ is ignoring them whilst the rest of the administration team and myself run around trying to come to a fair conclusion and solution to the matter.

As said multiple times, we do not ignore players asking for help or change however everything is to be discussed to ensure changes benefit administration and players alike to avoid issues and/or conflict.

Fair enough?

Yes see now you are communicating effectively like you should be doing in the first place. That is the attitude we need to see. It is when everyone just says 'it is what it is' or 'we solved this 2 years ago' that its like, we need a new approach. The community, not just administration, needs to collaborate ideas on how these issues can be solved. Which Cofiliano brought up in his original post. The more positive input administration would receive from the community, the more it would honestly help them out and in turn help the community out as a whole. Something I feel like people don't seem to grasp. Like I said, we are on the same page wanting this issue resolved, everyone just needs to come to a mutual agreement on how it is solved.

[Manas]

Not obligatory to help new players, but if you don't help, that removes your right to complain. Just /report and move on, don't complain.

C'mon Charlie, show me where the rule is "Officially" Stated?

[Manoni]

C'mon Charlie, show me where the rule is "Officially" Stated?

Nothing has to be written nor being official. It's common sense, don't ask for what you don't give.

[Manas]

Nothing has to be written nor being official. It's common sense, don't ask for what you don't give.

Everything has to be.

[CharlieKasper]

In real life people don't learn how to properly drive a vehicle by crashing into every pedestrian, lamp post, vehicle and house down the road, like new players seem to learn how being police officer works. They learn in a very secured and monitored environment with a guide next to them, and they must already have some experience and requisites beforehand (minimum age, documents, at least knowing how a vehicle works, etc.).

Don't speak about real life. Humans don't suddenly pop out of an airport completely able to walk, speak, roleplay or cause mayhem, being able to buy guns. They start with being babies where they learn everything and grow up learning everything about the world. If that is how it would have all went, the situations would have been worse than it is in our SA:MP community.

FYI, people without proper guidance when learning driving may actually cause a lot of damage (trust me, I have seen a lot of news about it in my country) in terms of properties and life.
Don't speak bullshit.
I still remember the day when I first joined and was introduced to police duty. I couldn't understand shit by what I was told until I tried it all. I was called an abuser too but thanks to being able to go on duty without having to wait for a passport, I was able to understand the duty within a couple of weeks.

That's the same as saying unless you help new player I don't give a shit about any problem you may have so you are making it obligatory. Anyways Devin basically summed it up and i'll leave it at that.

Did you even read what I said? I said you do a /report and move on. Let US deal with it if you don't want to. But don't complain if you don't want to help.

C'mon Charlie, show me where the rule is "Officially" Stated?

Well f**k my life, I can't find it!
I will try and make a novel about all the rules that can be found out using common sense, brb.

[Cofiliano]

Offopic:
I'll be completely honest and fair here, and gonna respond to a fellow brother of mine, Xander:

Bro you're having an argument and attacking on Devin, who's (with all tho respect to rest of HQ, specially scripters) the only motherf**ker who actually did something for the entire Community since rs5 was released, isn't side blinded, you can go to him with a problem he wont just ignore it, supported most of the groups today, developed lots of things, basically with the help of some few individuals including me who took initiative, we turned Argonath rs5 who had an average of 8 players, into a server with an average of at the moment 40-50 players and is rising everyday. and no matter what he writes here that you prejudge and misunderstood, he does not deserve those kind of talks by anyone.

In simple words, from all the people you could have choose to start this debate with, you picked the completely wrong person for it.

It wouldn't be fair from my side not to react on this, knowing all the facts.


Also let me remind everyone who wrote 4 pages of argument about offtopic stuff in less then a day:

Please keep up with the subject of the topic.

Personal arguments, debate about things not related, debate about new players, this and that, please put your ego and urge to answer someone's offtopic away, and keep it focused on the subject of the topic.

[/b]

I urge the moderators of this board, to erase any future reply that doesn't stick to the subject( even if a fellow moderator does it, specially the tl;dr personal debates between few people, that are not defending any ground about the subject, yet just having a personal debate for a heck of it.

SUBJECT-STICK TO IT!

[Manas]

I will try and make a novel about all the rules that can be found out using common sense, brb.

There was never such rule.
According to common sense, a police officer is deemed to have a passport atleast or a driving license. So don't bring your "common" sense here unless you can make any sense. Good Luck on your book.
If done with it, contact me i will publish it .

[Manoni]

There was never such rule.
According to common sense, a police officer is deemed to have a passport atleast or a driving license. So don't bring your "common" sense here unless you can make any sense. Good Luck on your book.
If done with it, contact me i will publish it .

How's that even related to what he said? Didn't you just read that we must stay on the topic subject?

[Xander]

Offopic:
I'll be completely honest and fair here, and gonna respond to a fellow brother of mine, Xander:

Bro you're having an argument and attacking on Devin, who's (with all tho respect to rest of HQ, specially scripters) the only motherf**ker who actually did something for the entire Community since rs5 was released, isn't side blinded, you can go to him with a problem he wont just ignore it, supported most of the groups today, developed lots of things, basically with the help of some few individuals including me who took initiative, we turned Argonath rs5 who had an average of 8 players, into a server with an average of at the moment 40-50 players and is rising everyday. and no matter what he writes here that you prejudge and misunderstood, he does not deserve those kind of talks by anyone.

In simple words, from all the people you could have choose to start this debate with, you picked the completely wrong person for it.

It wouldn't be fair from my side not to react on this, knowing all the facts.


Also let me remind everyone who wrote 4 pages of argument about offtopic stuff in less then a day:
[/b]

I urge the moderators of this board, to erase any future reply that doesn't stick to the subject( even if a fellow moderator does it, specially the tl;dr personal debates between few people, that are not defending any ground about the subject, yet just having a personal debate for a heck of it.

SUBJECT-STICK TO IT!

Like I said, Devin and I were on the same page Cofiliano, we just couldn't communicate effectively with eachother. That happens, does it mean we hate eachother? No it does not, we don't even know eachother and it would be ignorant for either of us to just say we dislike eachother over something like this. He wants the problem fixed as much as anyone else, that is why in my last post I stated it isn't just up to the administration to come up with ideas on how to resolve the issue, but it is up to the community aswell. So we were both very much on topic over the issue that we both want resolved. I just may need to increase activity, so I can further understand your predicament that you originally wrote about. I do agree with what you posted originally though Cofiliano, we should come up with a way it is handled for Criminal Groups, like it is handled with the SAPD. Every group has its own right to temp-ban a person from that group. So why not implement something like that regarding punishment, especially for new players? It would help as people who are in these groups receive more guidance than when they are out on their own. So the system you brought up could be effectively used.