Changes to be made

[Satoshi]

Hello,

Before writing some things down here, I just wanna say that if you're going to reply and say "Why are you so negativist?" or anything like that, keep it for yourself, I don't care what you think, but I just can't stand and watch how we're loosing players on a daily basis. So I was in-game earlier and I was talking with some players including an admin on what we need to do in order to get some players.

I am posting this thread because as you can see, we're dropping players really quick. We were hitting a steady 20-30 a week or two ago and in the last few days it dropped to 15-20 and still going down, which ain't good at all. We're just sitting and watching how we let the server die and I don't want that happen, and I guess neither do you.

I realize that school started/is about to start for some of us, college and other things, but that's why need new players. Our veterans are getting older and don't have the time available to spend on Argonath like they had few years ago, and I know that. And that's why we need new players. But, how do we get new players? We need to discuss what scripts we need, what scripts need to be removed or modified and how can we advertise the server. I see we have an advertisement team, what are they doing? We don't even have a topic on  SA:MP forums at the advertisement thread, which is good to have and could bring some players and make us known around.

So yeah, what do you guys think? What scripts do we need to implement faster and what can be dropped aside for now? I do realize that our current scripts that are being worked on take lot of time and effort, so how about implementing the ones that don't require as much as them? For instance, we can have those duty colors removed as you said, new furniture objects, that /wear clothing system and whatever is there. I don't say that these will bring lots of players, but it's a good way to start. For example there might be players who love to furnish houses and would like to roleplay designers, but they can't because we're lacking of furniture objects.

What do we need to do? What should we work on? And for those who visit our forums and don't play, tell me guys, what do we need to do in order to get you back here? We need to step up and do things or else we're going down. /discuss

P.S: Do not go off topic, we're not here to blame scripters, admins, players and so on. We are here to discuss what we need to work on.

[Khm]

We've come to a lot of solutions but players are so selfish and lazy to apply them.

[Satoshi]

We've come to a lot of solutions but players are so selfish and lazy to apply them.

Players or the administration?

[MrTony]

We've come to a lot of solutions but players are so selfish and lazy to apply them.

is it the players fault that there's still scripts missing? scripts that were promised since rs4 and still aren't here. and before you go about telling me how scripts aren't everything. well then. other rp servers with way more population have just that, lots of scripts and interesting gameplay, but no sense of community. argonath on the other hand is a strong community and if it had scripts on the same level or superior (hopeful thinking) to other rp servers then we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

[Mr. Goobii]

The reason why I think we ain't got the player count is because we lack the source of players; New players.

New players doesn't want to stick with Argonath and that's because of many different reasons.

- People don't interact, poor roleplay and habits.

- The gamemode feels hollow, doesn't give much enjoyment ( does not restrict DMer's to be able to buy guns for example... ) Cheap...

- The beginning when new players join; They start up with a text saying: "Welcome to Argonath.. blah blah blah... read the /rules..."... Which makes the player have no
f**cking clue to do next, we need to create something that give them a reason to continue playing.



I'm just a old man, sorry. I'm going back to my cave now, sorry for bothering, peace.

[eymas]

Players or the administration?

He says players.

And for a good reason. It's the players who make the community and therefore you are the easiest and biggest influence on the health of the server. The way you play, the way you behave, the way you approach new players, the way they approach you, and the way they see you.

I could go on but it all boils down to us: the players. It's not always the game itself as we all know it for ten years now, it's up to us to keep the dust off 

[Khm]

Players or the administration?

Players. Administration team is now going in the right road.

is it the players fault that there's still scripts missing? scripts that were promised since rs4 and still aren't here. and before you go about telling me how scripts aren't everything. well then. other rp servers with way more population have just that, lots of scripts and interesting gameplay, but no sense of community. argonath on the other hand is a strong community and if it had scripts on the same level or superior (hopeful thinking) to other rp servers then we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

I don't see any problem with the current script, the other team who promised for such scripts and didn't fulfill their promise, it's not the current's team fault in my opinion. We have only 2 active scripters and these 2 are even loaded with real life stuff yet there's progress happening better than the progress than the last 2 years.
It's still now us, players. Doing nothing but moaning instead of applying the solutions we mentioned in the other post.

[Satoshi]

Doing nothing but moaning instead of applying the solutions we mentioned in the other post.

That's why I posted this thread. Let's discuss what we need in-game and what should be paused for now. Let's get the scripts we really need first, then the other ones.

[eymas]

That's why I posted this thread. Let's discuss what we need in-game and what should be paused for now. Let's get the scripts we really need first, then the other ones.

To be honest: there's no "need", only "want" in terms of scripts.
You don't necessarily need scripts in order to bring/partake into roleplay.

[Satoshi]

To be honest: there's no "need", only "want" in terms of scripts.
You don't necessarily need scripts in order to bring/partake into roleplay.

I know, but I meant what we need to get players. We need players in order to roleplay.

[Teddy]

In terms of absence of scripts: Our roadmap has been updated and as everyone can see we're actively working on the scripts players demanded most and have a handful of scripts players want to eventually see scheduled for development. We're committed to not just making promises, but making a positive difference in this community.

However some have mentioned the lack of player to player interaction. No script can force players to RP with one another, it can only aid. At the end of the day the interactions between players fall purely into the hands of the players, not the scripts. We will continue to promote a server where RP interactions are between players and are initiated by players. We don't want a server where you RP with the script... after all this is multiplayer and the entire point is being with and interacting with players.

When two players are near one another the first instinct needs to be to RP, not scroll and shoot.

[Satoshi]

When two players are near one another the first instinct needs to be to RP, not scroll and shoot.

You don't know how much I want that happen.

[Khm]

That's why I posted this thread. Let's discuss what we need in-game and what should be paused for now. Let's get the scripts we really need first, then the other ones.

Aight lemme re-write/copy paste

We actually can if everyone accept the truth about what's happening in SA:MP and not treat others differently + if people didn't take RP scenarios so personal we would be in a better time, unban request section would be dead right we are here to have fun and make friends.
If people don't get salty from anything that others say about them we'd increase the activity, true school and the end of vacation have an effect on this but thinking it's only because of that is just lying to ourselves to deny the fact that we screwed up and we have to make change with listening to each-other in a civilised way.

I agree as well but I do plan on fixing this. As I've recently become a manager I have a lot of admins and moderators in my crosshairs. Mistakes happen, but we're humans and this is how we learn, by making mistakes and being corrected when they occur. We cannot learn if we do not know we're doing wrong. Do note you will not always see those corrections, but do expect more apologizes from admins/moderators who make mistakes.

Also, try to be motivated, try to have fun instead of killing rp or playercounts because scripts, because this, because that, we are a community, change appears when a single person changes his mind and works out something positive while having patience on the negative, with a negative mindstate what happends? Exactly this what happend now, and instead of complaining here, why don't you hop on the server? Try to roleplay on your own, don't give up after 10 minutes but wait for/or approach someone else with positivity.

I left for a good 2 years at the start of 2012 not because Argonath was crap or anything, simply because I turned 18 and was hitting it way too hard to have enough time let alone brains to play a game. I guess it is probably the same for most, we were all kids when we started and people are now a bit older and focusing more on advancing in real life. While some of us including myself came back, others continue to not have enough time or just simply being over video games. It's sad but it's true, also the kids that used to fill SAMP servers are now playing games like minecraft or way more advanced games, no new aged kid wants to play GTA SA. They will pick GTA V everytime.

Which is why I'm so happy that change is happening to the server because, we aren't in the space of time anymore where we can just RP and use /me for everything, it was fun. But games and technology advanced and I'm happy that Argonath is finally changing it up and thinking way outside of the box so it'll become a real RPG game rather than GTA SA with a chat basically. I personally think with the new scripts being put in, we will start filling up again and change the game for the better.

Also, directed at administration. Please be a bit more lenient on the new players, even if they're 4 months old they might not have had adequate time on SAMP and just need to be taught. I hate seeing admins who just handle the report with commands ajail and ban etc as that makes the player feel like he's being stood over basically without any talking to, it's an old issue but I still see it happening. For example, a friend of mine I invited to play with me so I could teach him the Argonath ways recently, he was online without me one day as I was coaching him in his learning stages, he accidentally carkilled someone who walked into the road and, teleported to admin jail, no warnings, stripped of police officer duties. Rather than teleporting him to admin jail and teaching him some rules and hearing his side of the story. As a result of this, my friend took it as provocation that he took his badge away and said in the mainchat "go fuck yourself" and there you go, banned. My point is, the whole situation could have been solved so much easier and we would have another member probably by now, fully into Argonath.
Also, now that he decided he'll put aside his pride and place an unban request apologizing deeply for his actions it hasn't even been looked at or anything and his ban was 5 months ago. Not moaning about it, just using it as an example and exposing some holes.

I'm trying to build this server up again ingame with the help of everyone and anyone. When online, DO NOT hesitate to come and roleplay with me or The Highway Runners. We can bring Argonath back to it's former glory together. In game and Out of game.

What I think would help the community and SA:MP is newer games. Former SA:MP players still have a copy of GTA SA with them. Newer games (such as GTA V) would attract new community members and they would definitely try out an older SA:MP server of the same community. GTA IV failed miserably at it.

That's the wrong approach.. "but what is there to do", go ingame and create something to do, if you always rely on someone else? Nothing changes, see my previous reply on this topic, try to be positive, try to be motivated, try to create roleplay scenarios instead, not waiting for other to do.

Now it's for us the players, we have to create a good environment for the new players, we have to camp on where new players spawn (preferred to create a team for it). We have to adopt these new players (not use them for your own group to increase the members in it -.-) and make them join the flow of how we play on the server, make him register on all the forums that we have. Explain him each job, how does it work, is it money maker? Role-play maker? And the way how to join it. (not focus on how to do drugs and use him for your advantage to make yourself rich..).
We also as players have to talk in a civilised way, once someone crosses the line he should expect action from the staff team in anytime (of course the staff team also has to talk in a civilized way). Attitude and the respect to each-other is what makes NEW players stick with us. We have to stop the sabotage on each other specially from the veterans to each other. If there's a problem you talk with the guy who created that problem if there is no solution then just take evidences and report.
Remember we the players who make the server, not the scripts. We also should remember that staff team are also players and not slaves (volunteers which also do what they volunteered for properly.) And most importantly, mistakes always happen and we have to correct them and not cover them up.

I don't understand one thing.

Everyone is talking about how the server is going down the hill or something, and no one is there to stop it, how people are leaving, how we have a small player count,  no one works on it, develop it etc.

This is all true, but there's one big problem: You/We are all late around 2 years for these posts(even tho they were posted exactly the same way like Leon pointed out).


Why do I say this? Because those posts doesn't apply for the future, yet it applies for the last 2 years if not even longer. I actually think, that with all the problems, things are actually gonna start going up, and massively.
You couldn't see the older scripting team being ever dedicated as much as the current one.

Yeah I know the bizz and drug script aint out yet, but they took the responsibility for it publicly, even when they have a delay or some kind of problem, they actually inform us why and how, and those reasons aren't some bullshit reasons like we're used to hear in the past.
But they are actually working on it. None of this use to happen prior.

You couldn't see HQ approve peoples suggestions such as Hosted Tab, with some false lame explanation why not.

You couldn't see any mapping around, except for SAPD/FBI/Mordor.

You couldn't see most of the guys in charge actually understanding what roleplay is, and trying to enforce it the right way.

Etc etc.

The current "lower" activity on Argonath is just the silence before the storm.

And there is no need for negativity and creating an armagedon atmosphere, because looking at it objectively ,currently there's no reasons for it, and all of that is mostly frustrations by the players for the last few years of suffering they all went trough.

Some patience is required that people mostly lost, so its creating a big pressure, which is being counter productive really.
Because of this,  the current scripting team that's actually working and developing things, is non stop under a massive pressure, 50 times more then the previous team who was chilling around for the last 2 years and that isn't really fair.
 
So for the sake of Argonath, give them some peace, let them work, and be excited for the new scripts that are around the corner.


PS- Excuse my long writing, and jumping from subject to subject, I couldn't point these things out in few sentences.

Generally if we treated new players nice and introduced them to the server with full detailed help we wouldn't have such a problem. Last time I asked on the main chat for someone to help me introduce few new players got ignored by everyone... (server had 20 players in that time)

[Shorty.]

In my opinion i think these are the problems that makes the players leave + no new comers...


1) Well, everyone can RP, but not everyone take the RP much serious these days..

2) Most of the players are trucking 24/7, and have no time to RolePlay.


HOW TO FIX THESE PROBLEMS??

Strict rules should be added for the players who dont RP at all.


There should be jobs for the government with a payment every month. (So players dont waste most of their time trucking)


For the new players... there should be helpers who help and introduce the server to new comers.

[Pedro.]

I've noticed that SA:MP is dying not argonath, GTA:V and other games are taking over... sad but true