Clear rules for everyone

[Jeremy.]

Just because someone refused to roleplay, it doesn't mean you should go out and DM them. You weren't punished for not roleplaying with cops, you weren't punished because Djole went behind David with a knife without roleplay and aiming it with the backstab animation, you weren't punished because you aimed guns at the door and guarded your place. You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.

If you are here for long enough you'd understand what deathmatching is. You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.
I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.

And again, you're not understanding even 1 sentence of what I wrote in the first post.

1)There has been prior attempt of interaction with the 2 freecops which resulted in their death. Therefore me and Djole were wanted for murdering someone.

We didn't just go to them and start shooting, what we did was we advised them friendly to leave the place. They could roleplay with us, approach and tell us there's a suspect inside the casino. But no, let's rather read nametags and don't involve roleplaying at all, whenever you see the suspect from /mdc shoot him on sight. That's what happened with the cops outside. Me and Djole went out to interact with them, not to kill them. I decided to stay in casino because I simply wanted to, there is no rule stating that if you're a suspect you can't stay in a certain building.

2)FBI agent David went inside, as we were wanted for mudering Stiven and Djole tried to approach him via roleplaying. He didn't get shot on sight, he didn't receive any single bullet from anyone of us. He stated himself that he doesn't wish to roleplay and was constantly entering/exiting the place with 0 willings to roleplay or interact with any of us.

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

3)We had Acika Luciano scouting outside for us, we've been aware of the fact that there are preparations being made and barricades are set and thats why we let Sopranos and whoever was there playing in casino free to go, to avoid any DM.

[16:52:55] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): kenawa and donnie leaving in a car
[16:54:01] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): all at the truck, arming up
[16:54:30] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): reinforcement

4)We went out, we exchanged fires. Both parties shot, there was nobody just sitting and doing *me extends his hand to negotiate*, they were all getting equipped with weaponary.

I doubt your saying is above Kojak's. Read this carefully:

Yes, providing you were on scene before the encounter with the police begins and providing it is proper combat where the family member's life is at stake. What is not allowed is to arrive after the police have already engaged the suspect and assist in combat. But to be clear, if you and a wanted family member are already clearly together and the police arrive and potentially lethal combat ensues, you may assist the family member in combat. This does not mean you can attack a police officer on sight just because you happen to be with a suspected family member, nor does it mean you can attack a police officer if your friend chooses to surrender, but if the attempted arrest turns to combat you may assist.

We would treat that in the same way as if you were attacked yourself, as in it is not necessary to use role-play commands or words to flesh out your actions.

Also a few quotes by people which have more knowledge and experience than you which were on scene and admitted that there was no DM involved:

I was one of the officers outside.

David Knight was under the impression that nobody inside wanted to RP, as he came outside and told us so, so I can only assume there was a misunderstanding there. As a native English speaker, I can tell you that "Ok no RP then" is a somewhat sarcastic comment about your RP or lack of it, not him refusing to RP.

However, I do agree with the fact it wasn't DM. Let's face it, the situation was only going to end one way, either with the cops entering and there being a shootout, or you guys exiting. I don't think the cops started the shootout though, I was shot when I wasnt even looking towards the casino. I don't object to being caught by surprise though, that's just good tactics on your side.

I was present in the situation as well; The intention of the police and the suspects were both, clearly, to win. First note, play to win and 50% of participants will always be disappointed!

With that in mind, it was an even playing field.
A negotiation was sought by the police...but were only willing to do so "under their terms". When the suspects attempted to gain control over negotiations, FBI "pressed H" and left the building.

To he honest I don't see any deathmatching here; What I do say though was a situation not approached well by either party. Ever thought of PMing the opposition participants to agree to a course of action? We can be friends and RP different roles, you know.

I can't speak for the situation with the two freecops prior to this though, I wasn't there and if I've learned anything over the past few years, it is that I shouldn't pass judgment without access to all the facts.

[jovanca]

Just because someone refused to roleplay, it doesn't mean you should go out and DM them. You weren't punished for not roleplaying with cops, you weren't punished because Djole went behind David with a knife without roleplay and aiming it with the backstab animation, you weren't punished because you aimed guns at the door and guarded your place. You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.

If you are here for long enough you'd understand what deathmatching is. You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.
I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.

You are wanted for murder, a cops comes in and suspects your friends, that cop then refuses to roleplay at all but remains armed behind a barricade waiting for you to come out to, as someone stated above, 'force you to give up or execute you', and you know that very well. That's a valid reason to shoot my man.

Not to mention that you are allowed to shoot cops who engage you as a suspect. And by engage i don't only mean shoot. Making a barricade around your property and holding their guns pointed sure falls under that.

Was it a good roleplay? No. But was it against the rules? Definetly not.

[Younes]

Was it a good roleplay? No. But was it against the rules? Definetly not.

If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.

[paradox_dz]

It's a roleplay server , lets go more real , when you are a suspect the only thing you think is avoide cops and stay alive , if cops have a reason to shoot you , so you have the same reason to shoot them , also kenawa told me we can skip action so i don't need to RP my action when i see some bullet flying , in the end of the situation it will just some bullets from cops like anytime YOU DEAD or COPS DEAD .
If cops or FBI keep spamming discord to call backup like anytime , you press tab 2 cops they come start a quilty of RP waiting for respond from discord , since they come a shootout and pure DM from cops side.
•The only reason from cops to shoot you is you are a suspect .
•The only reason from suspect to shoot cops is keep his ass alive.
So the DM from both side do not count

[Younes]

•The only reason from cops to shoot you is you are a suspect .
•The only reason from suspect to shoot cops is keep his ass alive.
So the DM from both side do not count

There wasn't anything threatening life of the criminals. They just chose to end situation fast using the excuse they are wanted and that the cops failed to roleplay at first. So instead of trying another way to roleplay, I let my guns speak. Well no, that is not how it works here.

[Jeremy.]

If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

[Younes]

Can you be convincing for once? The chatlog doesn't prove anything besides possibility of both sides refusing to roleplay. Instead of continuously using it as an argument, say the story behind, let those who commented know the truth.

[CELTICS]

If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay.

We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay.

Where could you possibly find this fair chance of /roleplay/ when you're in a very tense situation between a barricaded mafia and less federals circling up the zone? The only fair chance of roleplay that you could drag from this would be a scene where both parties will turn the shootout for a tactical pov instead of jumping around and scrolling weapons (which will never happen in this community). Nobody will ever comply with any /me-s or descriptive actions when they're shooting you, nobody has that time, nobody wants to risk to get put down by the other. Also, talking in terms of realism, as far as I'm concerned, everything kept to a roleplay behavior: Inside the casino, a famous organization not willing to ever get behind the bars and a lack of federal staff with someone from outside scouting. Why would, talking in those terms of realism and roleplay, why would someone, knowing that they have the numbers, not use this opportunity and make it as a chance of escaping? The more time they'd spend inside the building, the more blue dots would have arrived, right? So why couldn't they use this as an opportunity to escape? Which they did afterwards I suppose. 

[jovanca]

If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.

I suggest you dig into reading the rules again(if you ever even read them). While by common sense and logic SHOULD be labeled as deathmatch, Argonath has it's own rules which allow suspects to shoot officers who engage them.

[Dean.]

[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

I said that as Djole came creeping up on me with a knife after shouting 'pigs leave' or something autistic like that. I have no interest in being knife killed while trying to type.

I even announced we were going to try and negotiate on the radio.

[Claudia]

I have no interest in being knife killed while trying to type.

Same as what happened to me once I tried to negotiate with Gvardia.
In the same time I tried to type, someone went behind me and backstabbed me with no role play at all, ignoring the fact that there was an agent behind me and another 9 cops. Didn't even ask for ressistance etc.

[Stivi]

You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.

Them failing to RP is not a reason to shoot them, it is to show you that there were no basis of RPing. Tell me what in the world could have been possibly RPed there? You have three officers on the scene who say it wasn't DM, and both sides knew what was coming. And to me, that shows that they know the reason why they were killed. So why are you not seeing it? We admit to being wrong in not properly RPing this, and we gave our reason why. But get punished for it? Please, been for way too long to know the only thing that's gonna get me banned is the attitude I have, not my ability to RP.

You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.

Yes you are, if both parties know the reason. Interacting can be done in form of actions and doesn't specifically imply we have to talk and use /me for it.

Yes, the cops could have gone inside and shoot the suspects, nothing wrong with that. Instead, they tried to negociate because they were outnumbered, which is another matter and not the subject of this topic.

I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.

You are however siding with David, as he was the one to /pm you and tell you that we refused to RP. Tell me, how did we refuse to RP?

If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

Shooting on sight. David_Knight(39) entered the property three times, was aimed at the whole time, and not a single bullet was shot towards him. How did we refuse to RP, when he was the one entering and exiting the property multiple times, after being approached by us. If you answer those, then I might understand.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

We didn't want to defend the property, yet our friends. What story behind it? His sentence doesn't mean he didn't want to RP, his actions, however, show that he wanted to RP smth else with a bunch of murderers xD

[16:43:15] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): cops outside
[16:43:16] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): cops outside
[16:43:20] ***[6000] Djole(54): np
[16:43:21] ***[6000] Andrei_Gvardia(57): How many?
[16:43:26] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): a lot of FBI
[16:43:30] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:43:30] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:43:32] Djole(54) shouts: Fuck outta here pigs!!
[16:43:39] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): FBI and younes
[16:43:46] ***[6000] Stiven_Gvardia(31): MASKS UP.
[16:43:57] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): GO GO GUYS MASK UP
[16:44:52] Stiven_Gvardia(31) says: There's cops outside, what do we do?
[16:44:54] [Gvardia] Djole(54): {FFFFFF}nvm he's just jumping out like a retard lol

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.

What? Cops can breach an interior and shoot. I've been killed inside an interior multiple times lol. Don't you remember the cursed hotel in Verona Beach, RS4? Where CBFasi was banning people and scripting bombs inside the interior? Please, that's not true. How did we refuse to RP? What chances lmao? Who told you that?

You go ahead and tell me how we refused to RP in this scenario, and if you were in our position, what would you RP? Enlighten me.

I even announced we were going to try and negotiate on the radio.

Negotiate what? When you entered you said no shooting, and no one shot you. Where's the refusing to RP from our part?

Same as what happened to me once I tried to negotiate with Gvardia.
In the same time I tried to type, someone went behind me and backstabbed me with no role play at all, ignoring the fact that there was an agent behind me and another 9 cops. Didn't even ask for ressistance etc.

That was me who knifed you. I almost died from the agent behind you but that is irrelevant. You can't say we didn't RP with you, can you? We just didn't RP what you WANTED US TO. That's a different scenario and different reasoning behind it.

[Stivi]

There wasn't anything threatening life of the criminals. They just chose to end situation fast using the excuse they are wanted and that the cops failed to roleplay at first. So instead of trying another way to roleplay, I let my guns speak. Well no, that is not how it works here.

Just out of curiosity, were the cops outside being equipped with weapons?

[Younes]

I'm not saying you guys refused to roelplay neither they did. I'm not saying what happened inside by your side was wrong, I'm not saying David leaving the interior was right. I'm saying you leaving the interior and killing all cops outside knowing the fact no roleplay was done from both sides was just a stupid idea and wasn't justified at all, and was nothing but DM.

Just out of curiosity, were the cops outside being equipped with weapons?

I don't know, I was watching you and I saw you doing wrong, so I took actions.

[Claudia]

That was me who knifed you. I almost died from the agent behind you but that is irrelevant. You can't say we didn't RP with you, can you? We just didn't RP what you WANTED US TO. That's a different scenario and different reasoning behind it.

You gave me no chance to react, I don't call this a RP. But I won't talk about this anymore on this topic since it's off topic.