In character and Out of character discussion

[Leon.]

If have have misread this text, please do not hesitate to contact me.

I take it you're indirectly insulting me? :roll:
Don't even answer that question.

We never said it is not permitted. We do say that anyone who tries to bring it in as a rule increases the chance of us making it a rule of NOT being allowed.

I know you guys said the reason perhaps 4 times total EACH (and even had a little sidekick to repeat every exact word you said...), but your reasoning seems vague. I understand that it's a "rule" brought from other servers and that it may confuse players, etcetera, but I ask that you elaborate on why you have a low level of tolerance (definition used in this case: accepting another person's difference, e.g., an opinion, and not showing any sign of dissent) against IC/OOC. Yes, you said something along the lines of... "poor creativity and imagination" and that it could be implementing "a rule from another server," but if we want to get any resolution out of this, then I'll need you to elaborate and highlight (not literally highlight) each and every reason, so I won't be in doubt one bit of what you say.
Elaborate, meaning, make a "TL;DR" - I'll read it twice. You know what they say - You read it once, you'll probably remember 30-40% of what you read. You read it twice, and you'll remember around 80% of what you read; reading any more times won't make much of a difference.

[Gandalf]

I take it you're indirectly insulting me? :roll:
Don't even answer that question.I know you guys said the reason perhaps 4 times total EACH (and even had a little sidekick to repeat every exact word you said...), but your reasoning seems vague. I understand that it's a "rule" brought from other servers and that it may confuse players, etcetera, but I ask that you elaborate on why you have a low level of tolerance (definition used in this case: accepting another person's difference, e.g., an opinion, and not showing any sign of dissent) against IC/OOC. Yes, you said something along the lines of... "poor creativity and imagination" and that it could be implementing "a rule from another server," but if we want to get any resolution out of this, then I'll need you to elaborate and highlight (not literally highlight) each and every reason, so I won't be in doubt one bit of what you say.
Elaborate, meaning, make a "TL;DR" - I'll read it twice. You know what they say - You read it once, you'll probably remember 30-40% of what you read. You read it twice, and you'll remember around 80% of what you read; reading any more times won't make much of a difference.

It is not us who have a low tolerance. It is the people who are used to using IC/OOC who constantly wish to remind those who do not about the usage.

With apologies to the LGBT community: We have no problem whatsoever with people being gay in their bedroom, however if they constantly wish to remind everyone they are gay and make a public display of how they need to be tolerated, that will cause problems with more people as it will solve.

Replace gay with IC/OOC.

[Void]

It is not us who have a low tolerance. It is the people who are used to using IC/OOC who constantly wish to remind those who do not about the usage.

With apologies to the LGBT community: We have no problem whatsoever with people being gay in their bedroom, however if they constantly wish to remind everyone they are gay and make a public display of how they need to be tolerated, that will cause problems with more people as it will solve.

Replace gay with IC/OOC.

Now, we come to the conclusion. Generalizing.

[Gandalf]

Now, we come to the conclusion. Generalizing.

That is what we all do...

[Cofiliano]

Its one thing to ban a gay parade, and another to send homosexual person in Siberia for labor till the rest of their life.

[Shockk]

I primarily do not use IC/OOC. Although, I do separate IC and OOC in some situations.

A couple of brackets, I fail to see what the fuss is about. :flame: :trust:

[9r2e5i3k]

And I fail to see why use them if you can clearly manage without them.  :roll:

[Shockk]

Yes you're correct. We can manage without it so we should start a debate spanning countless threads and posts about a pair of brackets to challenge those who clearly find a use for them and tell them how inhumane the use of those brackets are. :roll:

Just for the record, I hardly use the forbidden brackets.  :drunk:

[Void]

That is what we all do...

In this exact situation, I do not see a problem between our ways of RP.
However, many force it, sadly, leaving owners and the Argonath "builders" no option then generalizing. I understand.

Those people, obviously don't know how RP works, and they should be banned(guessing of constant moaning).

[JDC]

Viewer discretion advised... read this post maturely or not at all.

Only they actually bring up their own points and ideas, while you just quote and don't even bother to use your own point.I know what it is, but sadly, I broke it because I ran out of things to facepalm with, including my hand, which I seem to have developed facepalm syndrome in.
I'll admit (because I have the balls and know how to take responsibility), I HAVE moaned before, and I still will moan in the future. However, at least I know the boundaries between a complaint and excessively overdoing it. Overdoing it would go something like...
"f**king IC/OOCers are trying to turn Argonath into a generic RP server!!1111"
"f**king IC/OOCers are trying to turn Argonath into a generic RP server!!1111"
"f**king IC/OOCers are trying to turn Argonath into a generic RP server!!1111"
"f**king IC/OOCers are trying to turn Argonath into a generic RP server!!1111"
(btw, IC/OOC =/= srs generic rp. 78 rules covering each and every situation = srs generic rp. IC/OOC is only one out of 78 rules)
Stop moaning about IC/OOCers trying to turn Argonath into a "very generic rp server." You act like we're out there to hunt you down with our kitty claws and Rape-X tubes. You are so paranoid... maybe if I were to walk in a school with a shirt with the metal sign (\m/) on it (which actually depicts devil horns), the security will be like "DEVIL SIGN, HE DO BAD DEEDS AND BURN BUILDING", much like how you guys see the OOC tags, and you say "OH SHIT, OOC TAGS, HE TRY TURN ARGO TO SRS RP SERVER."People like me? Lol. To them, dealing with someone defending his points about IC/OOC compared to a hacker stealing scripts and hijacking accounts from the server is like dealing with a crippled ant compared to a hornet's nest.
They've really got nothing to deal with; I'm not breaking a rule. They're simply CHOOSING to argue their points about IC/OOC, much like I am. We're having a mature conversation (mature, meaning, not doing this: "f**k YOU IC/OOC" "NO f**k YOU NON IC/OOC" "NO f**k YOU" "NO f**k" "f**kf**kf**k").Uhh...no, not really. The way they different from you is that Aragorn and Gandalf are not
And your challenge is declined. Here's why, so read VERY CLOSELY[/u].
I have no fear what so ever of saying what I said to you to them. I do, however, have the fear that they'll no longer have any trust in me because I lied about them. I'll also fear that they'll feel insulted when I say they are (doing something) they are not.
Gandalf and Aragorn aren't actually moaning. Calling them moaners would give them every right to call me a liar. It's hard to fix your reputation of being a liar, even if you aren't a liar.I meant that IC/OOC is not a rule within ARGONATH. Someone as smart as you should be able to realize that. owait...Yeah, that explains about everything.

I'll accept your challenge if you allow me to only say the things I said to you to them that are the truth when directed at them. Until then, no. I refuse to lie; it's degrading. And you just encouraged me to lie!

1. So what if my point is similar to theirs? That still makes it as my own as I am the one who uses it and brings it up and as I constantly argue against IC/OOC using not only quotes and based statements, but also statements that I did not derive from any of the owners' posts, but which I spoke simply because I found them to be true.

2. Who are you to say that a script-stealing hacker is the biggest pain in the ass for them... hackers come through now and then and each attempt has made Argonath into a stronger community.
 On the other hand, people like you, who constantly b*tch and point fingers at those who stick to community, who help those who are bringing in bullshits from other communities and DEFENDING those bullshits, are constantly around to cause headaches for the developers and owners.
 Did RON and CBF try to leave because of the hackers who tried to steal scripts or the hackers who simply tried to fly around on server with cars? No. They tried to leave because of people like YOU, MetaLuigiX!

3. You already are a liar. You posted shit about me as I spoke against IC/OOC and even posted many quotes from Owners' posts. I speak as much as I can without going over the edge and adhering to The Vision as much as possible, yet you cannot criticize them the way you criticized me, for speaking against it.

4. My dear Champion of IC/OOC, all of what you posted just proves you cannot criticize owners for saying the same sort of things as I have said. Until the day you call them moaners for saying IC/OOC is shit and telling IC/OOC users to f**k off (I did the former as well, the latter I did in a subtler way), then I will hold the assumption that you are an asslicker.

JDC, tell me what happened on that day of May 01, 2008? Who were you here and what tempted you to join?
Everyone is starting from the same position.

It would be my pleasure.

April 27, 2008- I was happy as I finally downloaded the MTA mod for GTA:VC, which meant I could finally play online with other VC players. When going through the server list, Argonath RPG caught my attention (as I had a prior interest in video-game RPGs, such as pokemon and etc... yes, I was a pokemon fan ), as it was the RPG with the highest amount of players at that exact moment.

When I joined the server, I saw some people driving around, chatting with each other, and role playing. First admin who helped me get started on Argonath RPG was =AV=Grzesiek, and this he started by teaching me to enter a car as passenger.

Over the next few days, I noticed that the people who were role playing were having a lot of fun (and this odd guy who was AFK almost 24/7 in the server named "[R*]RON", I used to wonder who he was), so I decided to join in more and more of their roleplay. One of the first RPs in Argonath I participated in was running a convenience store (RP started by Grzesiek, once again. He hired people to manage the store and paid us for our work... imagine an MTA:VC version of Jcstodds).

As time passed by, I took a liking to the Cop skin as some other cops who I worked with would share money and I had some fun RPs with criminals there as well (I remember one time when some criminal was stuck on top of a building and tried to find ways to get us to help him down without him getting caught ), so I decided to stay. I met a few friends who I had tons of fun with, such as Jingle, ArjunSforza (now known as Cutt3r), SpikeSforza, TonySforza, and the rest of the Sforza Mafia.

Eventually, I applied for MTA:VCPD, taking after Jingle, and the rest is history.


It was after my trip to Argonath SA:MP in July 2008 that I first saw IC/OOC, first being talked about here in Argonath (yes, the bringing in of shit was already happening), then I went to those other servers to see for myself what all the hype was about. After I joined as yet another "noob" on a certain RP Server (not elesarpea... though similar), what did I see?

Empty server... with 100+ players in TAB list. Where is everyone?
Elitist players who shunned anyone who did not RP with their standards (explained below)
Admins spamming me with "NO OOC CHAT IN /B" whenever I tried to chill around like I did so often in Argonath.
Very few cars and none that I can drive since they were all owned and all new players had to get a key before driving any car...
Server that forced roleplay and rigid standard of it that was meant as a replacement for brainpower... what is that standard? Today I call it IC/OOC.
After that, I visited 7 other RP Servers and found the exact same things.

Since then I have come to love Argonath more.

And yes this is all a true story...

[Cero]

Empty server... with 100+ players in TAB list. Where is everyone?
Elitist players who shunned anyone who did not RP with their standards (explained below)
Admins spamming me with "NO OOC CHAT IN /B" whenever I tried to chill around like I did so often in Argonath.
Very few cars and none that I can drive since they were all owned and all new players had to get a key before driving any car...
Server that forced roleplay and rigid standard of it that was meant as a replacement for brainpower... what is that standard? Today I call it IC/OOC.
After that, I visited 7 other RP Servers and found the exact same things.

You realize this topic is purely about people who want to use a couple of brackets, right? They dont want to turn Argonath into L**P.

IC/OOC =/= Real-life RP server rules

IC/OOC =

/l My fucking exhaust fell off the car five minutes ago, you dont happen to know a good mechanic do you?
/l (( lol man did you see the football game yesterday? It was fucking hilarious when Zinedane headbutted the guy ))

Some people find bursting out with about a football game in a RP situation a bit immersion breaking. That's why they use brackets, and brackets is what's being discussed in this topic. Not real life RP rules.

And again, they dont go around telling people to "(( BRACKETS OR GTFO NOOB ))". And IF they do, expect a swift fucking ban from me.(Atleast on IV:MP)

[Void]

... then I went to those other servers to see for myself what all the hype was about. After I joined as yet another "noob" on a certain RP

Empty server... with 100+ players in TAB list. Where is everyone?
Elitist players who shunned anyone who did not RP with their standards (explained below)
Admins spamming me with "NO OOC CHAT IN /B" whenever I tried to chill around like I did so often in Argonath.
Very few cars and none that I can drive since they were all owned and all new players had to get a key before driving any car...
Server that forced roleplay and rigid standard of it that was meant as a replacement for brainpower... what is that standard? Today I call it IC/OOC.
After that, I visited 7 other RP Servers and found the exact same things.

Since then I have come to love Argonath more.

And yes this is all a true story...

Reflect on this post, as this part is valuable. Thank you for posting this, as it was the key part I was wanting to hear from you.
I moved from srsRP server because of the same reason, and here, after weeks of playing I saw nothing is actually, forced.That was the main factor I stayed here.
I started using the IC/OOC techinque and I encountered on many players who used it to communicate with me.I forgot a bracket here and there, and what was really great, was that no one warned me for that. So why denying such liberty?Without forcing it, of course.

[9r2e5i3k]

I started

Is it me or did you previously say that you use it only when others use it?

And if you do play without it, why play with it?

So, you're saying that using IC/OOC is an excuse to bring crap into /L instead of sending a private message to the person you're talking to... Do you know that there already are chats, not related to role-play, in example the private messaging system and the public chat?

What he said.

Oh and CB radio.

[Leon.]

It is not us who have a low tolerance. It is the people who are used to using IC/OOC who constantly wish to remind those who do not about the usage.

With apologies to the LGBT community: We have no problem whatsoever with people being gay in their bedroom, however if they constantly wish to remind everyone they are gay and make a public display of how they need to be tolerated, that will cause problems with more people as it will solve.

Replace gay with IC/OOC.

300 words summarized into 51. To be honest, Gandalf, I underestimated you, and I dearly apologize to you for it.

Viewer discretion advised... read this post maturely or not at all.



2.
 On the other hand, people like you, who constantly b*tch and point fingers at those who stick to community, who help those who are bringing in bullshits from other communities and DEFENDING those bullshits, are constantly around to cause headaches for the developers and owners.
 Did RON and CBF try to leave because of the hackers who tried to steal scripts or the hackers who simply tried to fly around on server with cars? No. They tried to leave because of people like YOU, MetaLuigiX!

Your mind is severely tainted.
1. I constantly bitch and point fingers at those who think them and their generation are better than everyone else's. I have absolutely NO problem with those who stick to the community. Dave sticks to the community. Do I have problems with him? No, I don't. Me and Dave get along well, as a matter of fact.
2. Other communities? Around to cause headaches for developers and owners? For one, Argonath is/was my first and only community. Yes, I've been to a retarded RLRP server before - It was terrible. 10 minute tutorial, about 87 rules total that covered literally EVERYTHING, more than half of which can be interpreted by common sense, NO CAR, and a God-awful admin team who rarely wants to help you. Yes, my experience was VERY similar to yours.
And for two, if my sole purpose was to cause headaches for developers and owners on this community... well, let's just say I wouldn't still be here after a year. Let's also just say that developers would disrespect me (which they don't, I know for a fact) and that the owners would place multiple sanctions on me to prevent causing any further headaches.
Tell me something, JDC. Would I cause total hell in a server that provides me with the most entertaining activity I can find after school? Yeah, sure, I could go outside - No thanks, temperatures are already dropping close to freezing, and they will drop as low as 15 degrees Fahrenheit. I could hang out with friends - What, with all of the homework my school mates are being issued and all the stress that's being put on them?
3. People like me? The absolute worst thing I've ever done on this server was crack quite a few n****r jokes. I'm doing nothing to cause people like CBF to consider leaving (unless CBF was black - which he isn't). Please check the "ACSD Is banned" topic somewhere in SA:MP General, and you'll see what's been driving CBFasi nuts.

3. You already are a liar. You posted shit about me as I spoke against IC/OOC and even posted many quotes from Owners' posts. I speak as much as I can without going over the edge and adhering to The Vision as much as possible, yet you cannot criticize them the way you criticized me, for speaking against it.

1. I am not a liar.
Prove me wrong.[/u]
2. Well, you tried to adhere to The Vision, but you failed after you disrespected and regarded the people who use IC/OOC as retards.

9.   Argonath bases its community on respect and friendship between players of all nations.  This means that those who feel that they are allowed to disrespect others, consider others as inferior or treat them as such will be offered the choice to either change their views or leave the community. This includes any groups of players in game.

So, JDC, what's it going to be? Are you still going to insult and generalize IC/OOC users, or are you going to leave the community?
3. I cannot criticize them the way I criticized you, because Gandalf and Aragorn approached the matter with the proper attitude. Gandalf in particular maintained a great level of respect and avoided generalizing an entire group. You, on the other hand, jumped into the deep end with your hands tied behind your back and your feet tied to your hands without a life jacket.

4. My dear Champion of IC/OOC, all of what you posted just proves you cannot criticize owners for saying the same sort of things as I have said. Until the day you call them moaners for saying IC/OOC is shit and telling IC/OOC users to f**k off (I did the former as well, the latter I did in a subtler way), then I will hold the assumption that you are an asslicker.

>Implying I only use IC/OOC and don't respect or welcome any other style of roleplay
1. Correction: I cannot criticize owners for saying the same sort of things you copied and pasted right after they said it.
Correction 2: I cannot criticize owners because of their general approach to the IC/OOC crap. You approach it as going against The Vision (which I still fail to see which point of the vision goes against - If you'd be so kind to point out which one it goes against...) and as it turning Argonath into a real-life roleplay server. Tell me something. Do we use double parentheses in real life in the first place? No, we don't, hence you are wRONg.
Gandalf in particular, on the other hand, approaches it as said here:

It is not us who have a low tolerance. It is the people who are used to using IC/OOC who constantly wish to remind those who do not about the usage.

With apologies to the LGBT community: We have no problem whatsoever with people being gay in their bedroom, however if they constantly wish to remind everyone they are gay and make a public display of how they need to be tolerated, that will cause problems with more people as it will solve.

Replace gay with IC/OOC.

The difference between this quote and what your approach is that Gandalf's point is correct - yours is based off of theories, imagination, and paranoia.
2. All of what you have said just proves that you refuse to say any point you make is proven wrong, regardless if it's actually bullshit. Refer to

you know who you are?? your the sort type of guy whereas IF you says 1 thing and if new information was added then the idea deserves to be re-valuated BUT you will not give a chance and will just argue further to defend your position although you know its bullshit...why though?

Now before you accuse me of that, I just admitted defeat to Gandalf due to the quote I posted above. I asked him to provide a reason, and he delivered.

Until the day you call them moaners for saying IC/OOC is shit and telling IC/OOC users to f**k off (I did the former as well, the latter I did in a subtler way), then I will hold the assumption that you are an asslicker.

You sure can dish out the "asslicker" insult, but you sure as hell can't take it, Mr. MTA:VC Veteran.

Oh and CB radio.

Oh and not everyone around might not be in the CBRadio
Oh and not everyone will join the CBRadio
Oh and not everyone will want to see my bullshit (and maybe I don't want them to see it :P ) in public chat
Oh and not everyone will take the time to PM each and every person out of the however many may be there what needs to be said.

[9r2e5i3k]

So from all of the available chats ( /p /cb /pm AND MORE) which have both higher range and/or better privacy level, you have to use /L... with brackets.