ARPD Command Mix up ?

[~Legend~]

Since the head figures of VCPD are admins themselves I'd be surprised that they don't already have good communication with the admin staff.

I also wanted to involve more senior (non-"Command Staff") players in the VCPD that aren't Admins.

Of course, we may not always be around.

[SugarD]

Look, no administrative power will be given to those who are part of a roleplaying group. It's as simple as that. Administrative powers such as banning players are solely for the admin team to enforce the rules; not to enforce roleplay punishment.

Copban doesn't have to be an administrative command. If a cop is roleplaying being corrupt, then technically VC:MP VCPD Command Staff copbanning them would be a RP matter, not an administrative one, since they would be removing their legal right to go on duty.

I don't think all the commands we've talked about here are necessarily administrative.

/c uncrime seems fine as a tool for VCPD senior staff as they'd be able to use it if an investigation clears someone's charges, for instance, or if they are released on some sort of bail for roleplay purposes.

A cop ban function that goes beyond A-Team might be more debatable. The ban is not an outright permanent ban from being a police officer, just to mention, by the way.

Maybe it'd be best to encourage VCPD seniors to hold up good communication with Admin staff to solve problems if and when necessary.

I agree that VCPD, as well as all players, should keep up good communication with the administrative team, but that seems redundant in a RP'ed situation where admins aren't allowed to intervene as it's not an administrative matter.
As long as the command is only available to Command Staff, I don't see an issue with it. If it were Senior Officers+, then I'd be concerned and wouldn't agree with it.

Since the head figures of VCPD are admins themselves I'd be surprised that they don't already have good communication with the admin staff.

Why make them reliant, though? As long as you set out rules on what each is allowed to use the command for, there shouldn't be an issue with using it. If they abuse it, they'd be dealt with just like anyone else abusing commands.

[JDC]

That consist of Admins already.

Since the head figures of VCPD are admins themselves

*cough*

Look, no administrative power will be given to those who are part of a roleplaying group. It's as simple as that. Administrative powers such as banning players are solely for the admin team to enforce the rules; not to enforce roleplay punishment.

Then this leaves entities such as FBI without any means to carry out the job of incapacitating corrupt police officers.

Once again, this purpose of the VCPD having the command is not an administrative one, but rather one that would allow us to directly stem the corrupt activities from certain officers. More than once, freecops (and the occasional rogue VCPD officer) have been reported to us, only for the reporter to forget that we have no way of controlling the people they are reporting.

There have been complaints that we (VCPD, and particularly FBI) are not doing a very good job in regulating corrupt officers, when we don't even have the necessary tools (i.e: No copban, cannot suspect / jail corrupt cops) to carry out that job. :redface:

If you examined the SA:MP system and how the departments' usage of copban is regulated, then you will see how SAPD and FBI are capable of preventing corrupt individuals from using cop duty for their own purposes.

[Kessu]

Copban is and most likely will stay as administrator command.

Uncrime, tho', from my opinion could be given to FBI (NOT temp ones). SWAT doesn't need uncrime, neither does higher level cops (since they already become to show up as admins).

Also, if you have gotten reports of corrupt cops (assuming you mean they do not break rules) then why not contact admin about it anyways? You have Chief (lvl 3), Deputy Chief (lvl 3), FBI Agent (maybe some nicer rank with lvl 5). You have enough "powers" to solve these problems also, if only you just communicated once in a while and shared the reports and such...

[SugarD]

Copban is and most likely will stay as administrator command.

Uncrime, tho', from my opinion could be given to FBI (NOT temp ones). SWAT doesn't need uncrime, neither does higher level cops (since they already become to show up as admins).

Also, if you have gotten reports of corrupt cops (assuming you mean they do not break rules) then why not contact admin about it anyways? You have Chief (lvl 3), Deputy Chief (lvl 3), FBI Agent (maybe some nicer rank with lvl 5). You have enough "powers" to solve these problems also, if only you just communicated once in a while and shared the reports and such...

I agree on the SWAT and FBI parts, but corrupt cops are not an administrative issue, so why would you contact admins for that? Breaking the rules resulting in copbans become an administrative issue, but corrupt cop roleplays that lead to them do not. It'd make no sense for an admin to get involved in a non-administrative issue in a roleplay.

[stormeus]

Also, if you have gotten reports of corrupt cops (assuming you mean they do not break rules) then why not contact admin about it anyways?

Unless there is a server rule that says "You cannot be a corrupt cop," then it is not an administrative issue. And note that corruption is not limited to false suspecting and killing surrendered suspects. There's also extortion, drug dealing, conspiring with criminals, sabotaging evidence, RPing a prison break, blackmail, fraud, etc., etc., etc...

[Klaus]

So.. if lets says newbie236 accepted a bribe, you'd want to ban him from playing as police for several hours as punishment? IMO thats just harsh, since players are free to roleplay as a corrupt cop if they want. They shouldn't have their rights to play as police taken away because of one roleplay scenario. There are better ways to deal with it.

[Marcell]

I remember I jailed Alarba for 15 seconds as his crime was pissing in public place so I thought the punishment should be light, and got copbanned for the whole day due to corruption lol

[SugarD]

So.. if lets says newbie236 accepted a bribe, you'd want to ban him from playing as police for several hours as punishment? IMO thats just harsh, since players are free to roleplay as a corrupt cop if they want. They shouldn't have their rights to play as police taken away because of one roleplay scenario. There are better ways to deal with it.

Well that's why admins wouldn't be copbanning them. Corrupt roleplay is perfectly fine in Argo, as was said in other places before. If you get caught in a RP way, however, being stripped of your badge would make sense.

[Kessu]

Well that's why admins wouldn't be copbanning them. Corrupt roleplay is perfectly fine in Argo, as was said in other places before. If you get caught in a RP way, however, being stripped of your badge would make sense.

Feels kinda like ARPD wants a ragecopban command when someone uses /c bribe  :roll:

Anyways, copban I do not want to see on none else but admins since it's always a command for punishment. If you want someone copbanned so bad, just contact admin. I'm sure admins do have the time to fix up a /c copban command.

-Ignore what I may have said earlier, points brought up may have affected my opinion-

As for uncrime, what does klaus have to say for that? Would that command be ok for FBI? ((I wouldn't give them to anyone else, maybe senior officer+ (means not even senior officers have it, but higher)))

[SugarD]

Feels kinda like ARPD wants a ragecopban command when someone uses /c bribe  :roll:

I don't see how since I'm not in ARPD in VC:MP, and I suggested it only for VC:MP VCPD's Command Staff to use... :P

[JDC]

Without a mechanism to directly control law enforcers who go out of line, FBI is effectively useless when trying to control corrupt cops, for a reason beyond its control.

[Kessu]

Let me ask you this question and I hope you people answer it:

Why should players (mostly new) be punished for doing a roleplay? I know you would insta copban him for playing as corrupt cop when EAF offered him some cash.

And then the next question: How long copbans would you give, say to me, if I were a corrupt cop who "saved" all furies from the "wrath" of ARPD?  :devroll:

[~Legend~]

/c uncrime, like said before, could be really useful for investigative purposes.
You'd expect A-Team to deal with any misuse in the commands (i.e. false suspecting), but should the case occur when an Admin is unavailable, after an investigation if a suspect is cleared of any criminal acts, a VCPD member with the right permissions could uncrime them.


/c copban becomes way more sketchy, as Kessu, Klaus and others have pointed out.

I don't think all the commands we've talked about here are necessarily administrative.

/c uncrime seems fine as a tool for VCPD senior staff as they'd be able to use it if an investigation clears someone's charges, for instance, or if they are released on some sort of bail for roleplay purposes.

A cop ban function that goes beyond A-Team might be more debatable. The ban is not an outright permanent ban from being a police officer, just to mention, by the way.

Maybe it'd be best to encourage VCPD seniors to hold up good communication with Admin staff to solve problems if and when necessary.

Would be really good if actions/punishments for insubordination - say if you were found out for being corrupt/doing "bad things" on duty - could be just roleplayed. Maybe the violator could get a suspension from work, but this would all be dependent on the good will of those taking part in the situation.
Of course, a restrictive command would govern that, but shouldn't be #1 on the list I feel.



I personally try not to mix up my own roles - especially administrative ones with more roleplay ones.
Hopefully those around me know that I rarely intertwine Administrator with clan lead or police head responsibilities on tasks, as they all deserve certain levels of dedication, so I find it is best not to cross things over.

[Marcell]

imo

cops should be able to unsuspect, suspect lower ranked cops, but not copban

if someone roleplays a corrupt cop and decides to shoot a suspect who surrendered in roleplay matter due to personal reasons, you'd copban him for weeks...instead you're meant to take evidence (make a screenie) then suspect him for breaking the vcpd rules (w/e its called) and take him into custody...