Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Legolas on May 03, 2010, 02:40:28 pm

Title: SAMP Rules
Post by: Legolas on May 03, 2010, 02:40:28 pm
Quote
**Rules on Argonath SA-MP RPG**

The rules or Argonath RPG are simple. All players are expected to do role-play. Deathmatching is strictly forbidden and will be punished by kick or ban.

For each skin there is a basic role, but players are free to use their imagination.
The idea is that we all live in a corrupt country, with a lot of criminals. However that does not mean that civilians are allowed to use their weapons at any time. If they are shot at, do what would happen in real life: panic and run. Only cops are allowed to shoot back , but even for cops there are limits.

- NO CHEATS, NO MODS, NO HACKS;
- NO HELIKILLING, NO CARKILLING, NO RAMMING, NO CARJACKING;
- NO GLITCHES, that give you advantage over other players (attacking from glitched areas);
- NO PAUSING WHEN COMBAT, WANTED;- NO REVENGE KILLING;
- NO FLOOD THE CHAT WINDOW;
- NO SPAM (advertisment of other servers and sites, that do not belong to Argonath RPG server is NOT allowed);
- NO FLAME/INSULT players. If you came to play on our server - respect it and our players;
- NO ATTACKING WITHOUT A PROPER REASON;
- NO ESCAPING WHEN SURRENDERED (follow cops to the police department);
- FOR ONE CHASE CRIMINAL CAN CHANGE ONLY 5 CARS. Fight or surrender;
- POLICE VEHICLES ARE ONLY FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS;
- MILITARY VEHICLES ARE ONLY FOR ARGONATH ARMY TEAM;
- NO MONEY CHEATING (punishment: permban);
- IMPOSTERS ARE NOT ALLOWED (no any copying other players' nicks or regular clans' tags);
- SLANG IS ALLOWED ONLY AS A PART OF ROLEPLAY (swearing as personal attack on players will be punished);
- NICKS WITH THE UNREADABLE LETTERS ARE NOT ALLOWED (Please refrain from using <>?/|\{}[]()-=+/*- due to the server's RPG script commands)

This is for lazy/moan people who have no idea about rules on Argonath. Read it/learn it/respect it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: rJCaiG on May 03, 2010, 02:43:55 pm
Hopefully this reminder will be heeded by all!
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: smey on May 03, 2010, 03:22:41 pm
Does the '- FOR ONE CHASE CRIMINAL CAN CHANGE ONLY 5 CARS. Fight or surrender;' still count?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Edward on May 03, 2010, 03:38:17 pm
Does the '- FOR ONE CHASE CRIMINAL CAN CHANGE ONLY 5 CARS. Fight or surrender;' still count?
I thought they removed that rule after cop cars can be sprayed.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Legolas on May 03, 2010, 03:48:29 pm
Quote
FOR ONE CHASE CRIMINAL CAN CHANGE ONLY 5 CARS. Fight or surrender;
This is curently diabeled
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: kohvimees on May 03, 2010, 04:11:37 pm
And what about shooting while "carsurfing"? There is no written rule yet it is enforced by administration team. I believe there are some more unwritten rules which players might not know about, will there be a time when they do get written?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Ted on May 03, 2010, 04:19:29 pm
Because of the possibility to surf the car, shooting while surfing the car would allow for a mass-driveby and/or better aiming as a usual driveby. This goes beyond the limits of ths singple layer game, and can be used for DM.
There for with the introduction of SA:MP 0.3 the shooting while surfing any vehicle is counted as DM.

The quote above is about shooting whilst carsurfing.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: TheRock on May 03, 2010, 07:10:16 pm
Sticky please!
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Legolas on May 03, 2010, 07:15:59 pm
They are all the time in Developers/Rules section ;)  This is just reminder to these who made own extra ones.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: newton_alex on May 03, 2010, 07:19:04 pm
Legolas - I think a review of the rules should be done like in ideas. Make everything clearer - eg; Whos the official Army Team now ? there's a court case over it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 03, 2010, 07:25:10 pm
Legolas - I think a review of the rules should be done like in ideas. Make everything clearer - eg; Whos the official Army Team now ? there's a court case over it.
Good luck with the court case. There is currently no official army.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: newton_alex on May 03, 2010, 07:37:15 pm
Good luck with the court case. There is currently no official army.
its not me who is doing it
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: prosac on May 03, 2010, 07:42:02 pm
So i wonder now, there is no rule against Driveby you say, as i cant find any rule against it here. So then you wasent rule braking when you drivebyd me today as a driver . Nice to know since now i will do so also ! ( not )... Intressting just to know .. i wont do it, but it should really be a rule against it. i made some searching and i actuallly found people banned for Driveby as a driver and today i see Legolas drivebying me as a driver xD :P and i ask him, that isent allowed? Then you say ( legolas that there is no rule against it) . There is not rule against it, but why do people get banned for it ? i dont get it please Explain so i understand
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Courage on May 03, 2010, 07:49:30 pm
FOR ONE CHASE CRIMINAL CAN CHANGE ONLY 5 CARS. Fight or surrender;
looool, who counts?

anyways, seems that DB as driver is allowed

Post Merge: May 03, 2010, 07:50:18 pm
when you drivebyd me today as a driver .
same as me and my friends...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Daco on May 03, 2010, 08:01:51 pm
Guys, you all know already about every rule. Stop the pointless talk.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Courage on May 03, 2010, 08:02:52 pm
So whats the deal? there is nowhere written that DB as driver is disallowed, we can shoot so?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Petar on May 03, 2010, 08:06:18 pm
Soooo.

Is Driveby as Driver ALLOWED !?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: TheRock on May 03, 2010, 08:09:36 pm
No it is NOT.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Bilbo on May 03, 2010, 08:11:14 pm
Quote from: Aragorn, 20th November 2009
DRIVE BY SHOOTING

Only passengers may perform drive by shootings, drivers of vehicles are forbidden from doing it.

Admins are aware of the current rules as they've been announced on the Administrator Section.
The rules on the website should have been updated a long time ago already, but as they're worked on while planning RS5, they're not.
If you are unaware of some rules of the server, please direct your questions to the administrator team.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 03, 2010, 08:19:39 pm
Soooo.

Is Driveby as Driver ALLOWED !?

Yes.

No it is NOT.

You sure ?

(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1043/samp177v.png)
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: TheRock on May 03, 2010, 08:20:50 pm
As Passenger it IS allowed, as driver it is NOT.

I do not know about [Rstar]Agent using it on a bike.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 03, 2010, 08:30:54 pm
Soooo.

Is Driveby as Driver ALLOWED !?
The driveby rule falls under Glitching. There for it is not allowed, as the driver of a vehicle when using driveby gets an auto-aiming and can not be hurt due to a special action.
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed (as Agent is doing in the picture) as otherwise they have no way of stopping a suspect by force. As a motorcycle it not easy to handle while shooting, the effect of the glitch is neutralized.

The general rules cover every situation, however it requires the player to use his brains. The more specific rules we will make. the more players will wave them to get advantage over others.

For this reason the rules will remain simple and general. If you wish to explore the limits, you will find them by admin punishment.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 03, 2010, 08:36:46 pm
The driveby rule falls under Glitching. There for it is not allowed, as the driver of a vehicle when using driveby gets an auto-aiming and can not be hurt due to a special action.
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed (as Agent is doing in the picture) as otherwise they have no way of stopping a suspect by force. As a motorcycle it not easy to handle while shooting, the effect of the glitch is neutralized.

The general rules cover every situation, however it requires the player to use his brains. The more specific rules we will make. the more players will wave them to get advantage over others.

For this reason the rules will remain simple and general. If you wish to explore the limits, you will find them by admin punishment.

Ok, thank you for explai. :)
Then sorry Legolas for all the annoying in game.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Oliver on May 03, 2010, 08:39:12 pm
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed

(http://i41.tinypic.com/e63dxl.jpg)
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Courage on May 03, 2010, 08:57:15 pm
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed (as Agent is doing in the picture) as otherwise they have no way of stopping a suspect by force. As a motorcycle it not easy to handle while shooting, the effect of the glitch is neutralized.
Shooting from a motorcycle to kill the person is much easier, or blow up car with suspects... there is the positive side...
let suspects drive bikes and shoot too then...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: (tr)Ollie on May 03, 2010, 08:58:09 pm
Looking at Stan makes me moist  :(
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 03, 2010, 09:14:39 pm
So how come this exemption of the no drive-by as driver rule has not been made for civilians and suspects? Surely if they can drive-by as passenger they should be allowed to shoot as driver if the glitch you mentioned has been cancelled out by the apparent fact that it is harder to shoot and drive the bike at the same time?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 03, 2010, 09:17:20 pm
So how come this exemption of the no drive-by as driver rule has not been made for civilians and suspects? Surely if they can drive-by as passenger they should be allowed to shoot as driver if the glitch you mentioned has been cancelled out by the apparent fact that it is harder to shoot and drive the bike at the same time?
Because susects are not supposed to run around shooting at everything.
However cops are supposed to do their best effort to stop wanted suspects and there is no other way a single cop on a bike can stop a suspect in a car.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 03, 2010, 09:30:44 pm
Because susects are not supposed to run around shooting at everything.
However cops are supposed to do their best effort to stop wanted suspects and there is no other way a single cop on a bike can stop a suspect in a car.

I said civilians and suspects. How is a civilian or suspect who is (perhaps in the middle of a hitman contract) chasing someone in a bike on their own, just like this hypothetical cop you mentioned in your post supposed to stop the person they are chasing. I believe it is possible for a cop to stop a suspect in a car without drive-bying them - this can be achieved in various ways, such as:


I really don't think it's on for cops to be allowed to drive-by as driver in a bike, although your idea of the balancing act in determining what can be allowed and what can not is very thoughtful by weighing up if a glitch's advantages can be eliminated by other factors. I just don't think that it will work in practice. Yes, rules should be flexible as you mentioned but do you not think that the fact there's now a rule where cops can drive-by as drive-by on bikes however not on cars but can drive-by as passenger whilst on both bikes and in cars yet civilians and suspects not being allowed to drive-by as driver in either bikes or cars despite being able to drive-by as passengers in both bikes and cars is slightly contradictory?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Vice on May 03, 2010, 09:44:18 pm
good to know i can drive by when im a bikercop  :banana:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Legolas on May 03, 2010, 10:03:21 pm
Yeah... thanks. Now people think im idiot... people... you also think same. Gready/wanabe monsters.

Thanks...

Bye...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: newton_alex on May 03, 2010, 10:06:00 pm
Yeah... thanks. Now people think im idiot... people... you also think same. Gready/wanabe monsters.

Thanks...

Bye...

huh ?   :trust:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 03, 2010, 10:28:30 pm
Yeah... thanks. Now people think im idiot... people... you also think same. Gready/wanabe monsters.

Thanks...

Bye...
You're cool.. :gun: I remember your ban reasons in mid 2008  :D.

If you knew or thought it was okay that you were allowed to drive-by as driver in a cop bike when chasing a suspect, then that's fine. I just don't agree with the rule for the reasons I gave in my last post. It's simply sad that you had to post the rules here as you felt people didn't really check them however I'm sure a lot of people would have looked at them now as a direct result of your action.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pablo on May 03, 2010, 10:47:18 pm
Cool, cops will be able to spawn rocket launchers and miniguns soon, while criminals will be limited to 9mm's and bats probably.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Mikro on May 03, 2010, 10:48:11 pm
Cool, cops will be able to spawn rocket launchers and miniguns soon, while criminals will be limited to 9mm's and bats probably.
If you say so..
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: TruthSvensson on May 03, 2010, 10:52:12 pm
Yeah... thanks. Now people think im idiot... people... you also think same. Gready/wanabe monsters.

Thanks...

Bye...
What do you mean legolas? Why?  :conf:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Grovyle on May 03, 2010, 11:22:19 pm
Cool, cops will be able to spawn rocket launchers and miniguns soon, while criminals will be limited to 9mm's and bats probably.

Pablo, sorry to be an asshole, but please, quit constantly mentioning that speculation that cops have 9001 advantages over criminals. Is this a C&R server or a roleplaying server? It's a videogame for god's sake.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Aksel on May 03, 2010, 11:44:11 pm
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PLAY BY THE RULES, THE RULES ARE ALREADY WRITTEN SO STOP MOANING.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 04, 2010, 12:05:13 am
They are all the time in Developers/Rules section ;)  This is just reminder to these who made own extra ones.
Reminds me of when I almost got banned for a non-existent rule.

Gandalfz0r, you realize that you shoot at the speed of light when you shoot on bikes/cars as driver, amirite?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 04, 2010, 12:18:46 am
I said civilians and suspects. How is a civilian or suspect who is (perhaps in the middle of a hitman contract) chasing someone in a bike on their own, just like this hypothetical cop you mentioned in your post supposed to stop the person they are chasing. I believe it is possible for a cop to stop a suspect in a car without drive-bying them - this can be achieved in various ways, such as:

  • Trying to convince the suspect to stop the car via using the megaphones on the bikes.
  • Forcing the suspect in the car to blow up their car by good driving like forcing the driver to hit the walls a few times or making the suspect's car flip by making the suspect mess up a jump or drive poorly in a hilly area.
  • Forcing the suspect to drown the car by careful tail-gating.
  • Waiting for the driver to stop at a place such as an ammunation and attacking then, without the drive-bying.
  • Requesting a Hydra or a Hunter to take out the suspect's car on their cop radio.

I really don't think it's on for cops to be allowed to drive-by as driver in a bike, although your idea of the balancing act in determining what can be allowed and what can not is very thoughtful by weighing up if a glitch's advantages can be eliminated by other factors. I just don't think that it will work in practice. Yes, rules should be flexible as you mentioned but do you not think that the fact there's now a rule where cops can drive-by as drive-by on bikes however not on cars but can drive-by as passenger whilst on both bikes and in cars yet civilians and suspects not being allowed to drive-by as driver in either bikes or cars despite being able to drive-by as passengers in both bikes and cars is slightly contradictory?
When you see me and Violet agreeing on an issue, that means its definitely the ultimate logic.

With common seance, if cops or other law force members, are allowed to drive-by as drivers on bikes, then all others(Criminals, and civilians) should be able the same.
Violet already mention the hitman example, what if  a suspect is being shot by a cop on bike who's going driectly toward him (Which is likely to happen with this rule), and just using auto-aim glitch to get an magnificent advantage?

You say that criminals should not suppose to use it , cause its not their part to go around shooting people, but the same can apply on cops, so if they can use it ( by this they can also abuse it), so should cirminals/citizens be allowed to, if they abuse it, it ends up in punishment, in the same way as cops would get.

Half of ARPD is using auto-aim already (Check most of SASD SACS videos on youtube) , this is just too much.


Yeah... thanks. Now people think im idiot... people... you also think same. Gready/wanabe monsters.

Thanks...

Bye...
Does people who would even consider you with such words, should not be allowed to use internet, not to mention be part of our community.
You done so many things to our server and our community, stuff most people couldn't do in 20 years, that can not destroy or even hurt, opinion on you. Thumbs up for everything Legolas, and thank you.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Romeo on May 04, 2010, 12:21:49 am
The driveby rule falls under Glitching. There for it is not allowed.
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed (as Agent is doing in the picture) as otherwise they have no way of stopping a suspect by force. As a motorcycle it not easy to handle while shooting, the effect of the glitch is neutralized.

So why can't criminals on a motorbike, while chasing someone, use driver DB?
Or is it ANOTHER Cop/Criminal inequality?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Louis_Keyl on May 04, 2010, 12:24:55 am
People, Look at yourself please, you're arguing with the Server owner for a rule, He is the owner, he decides the rules, if you don't like them leave.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 04, 2010, 12:26:36 am
We're not arguing Louis, we're sharing opinion on the issues. We all are aware that Owners word is the last.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Chase on May 04, 2010, 12:30:18 am
Cool, cops will be able to spawn rocket launchers and miniguns soon, while criminals will be limited to 9mm's and bats probably.

I see you don't like it. I know how to make you feel better. Leave and find another server. See kids, this is just a prime example of typical moaning that does more harm than good. This is the type of cancer that is killing Argonath. Moaning just makes more and more developers leave. Once all developers leave, you shall have nothing to moan about.... because you will have nothing.

Become a optimist, not a moaner.

And just a footnote, I know for a fact people will start moaning at me for taking my precious time to type this up. Go ahead, but this is all I have to say, and all you need to know.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: lennie_briscoe on May 04, 2010, 12:37:36 am
I see you don't like it. I know how to make you feel better. Leave and find another server. See kids, this is just a prime example of typical moaning that does more harm than good. This is the type of cancer that is killing Argonath. Moaning just makes more and more developers leave. Once all developers leave, you shall have nothing to moan about.... because you will have nothing.

Become a optimist, not a moaner.

And just a footnote, I know for a fact people will start moaning at me for taking my precious time to type this up. Go ahead, but this is all I have to say, and all you need to know.

This
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Dave on May 04, 2010, 12:42:23 am
You people want to moan and drive developers out and make them re-wrote the rules? Very well then, go ahead, but be warned, you will have the entire administritative team to deal with, including myself, and I as a person have very good contacts within this community. The owners, believe it or not, trust me, as I am loyal. I can tell you for a fact, from talking to them, things are going to change around here.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 04, 2010, 12:47:19 am
b] This is the type of cancer that is killing Argonath.[/b]
Why does it hurt you so bad if he's lost his patient with all the injustice he feels, he's getting?

Let me remind you how you and your partners reacted on a similar base:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=52908.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=52908.0)
Should have we proclaim Pancher, Louis, you and the rest as "cancer that is killing Argonath"? Just because for a second there you felt threaten?
Although I respect your opinion, like any other, opinions are different, you can debate them, but not going off limits calling someone/something "cancer of Argonath".
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Chase on May 04, 2010, 01:00:58 am
Since unlike most people, you've actually responded in a professional manner, and I will do the same.

Whatever you want to call it, Moaning is killing Argonath. CBF tried to leave numerous times, and even Aragorn did. Fact remains that if people keep whining about the unchangeable, there will no longer be a functional Argonath administration.

I do not mean to offend anybody, and I apologize if I did, but the whining has to stop, for the good of Argonath.

I don't know about my partners, but I cannot recall a time where I started whining about someone having the advantage over me. Actually this is the case in the real world. It would make sense that the president has more advantages than a street hobo. You can't have everything you want.

Maybe I shouldn't have named Pablo specifically, but I am just pissed at all of what this is doing. Legolas is probably going as well. Sharing opinions is very different than plain out moaning FYI.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 04, 2010, 03:40:23 am
One of the Main rules of Gvardia Group is that moaning over /p, /pm are not allowed by any chance. A lot of people got demoted and kicked cause of it.
Even Community Leaders notice the hard core policy we got on our members when moaning and whining is the case.

I agree that moaning and whining is the cancer of our community. That's why I am trying to prevent it as much as possible in my rights, starting from my own group, to my allies groups, and people who will dare to listen to my suggestion to stop moaning over pm, without a feeling I am bullying them.

But most of the moaning doesn't come from criminals specifically, it comes from our community in General, its solo based on maturity of players to have respect toward developers and owners hard work.

How much the community is mature, so much is the moaning less then that. One of the reason we asked for possibility  /p chat off, is not cause we wont "srs rp server bisnins", or cause we're leet role players, cause if we wanted that we would simply go to a server like that, but a lot of people made the suggestion turned into "cops vs criminals ( suspects=/=criminals)" arguing, who has which advantage, and who should "GTFO Argonath with their srs bisnis rp ".

In this topic, I  just like Violet, was talking straight about the drive-by rule, our opinion on it, and suggestion, we didn't discuss picture with Legolas on it, or what so any, but still people generalized it with the Legolas reply of leaving. One of the reasons I posted the message to him is to show him, that if some people try making him look bad, it doesn't generalize all of us, who actually give a damn and respect everything that he done for our server and our community without second thoughts.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Boxy on May 04, 2010, 04:34:58 am
~rules~ are ~rules~

Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Courage on May 04, 2010, 06:30:58 am
SHUT THE f**k UP AND PLAY BY THE RULES, THE RULES ARE ALREADY WRITTEN SO STOP MOANING.
says cop...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: rJCaiG on May 04, 2010, 07:53:49 am
You guys drove Legolas, one of the most patient, friendly guys in the server, to his breaking point and he has said good bye?
I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would argue with a server owner, while he was the one who created the server and nourished it from day one...You spit it back at him by moaning and complaining and targeting people and being all 'round children...Seriously shameful...I hope this is a wake up call to you guys.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Sammir on May 04, 2010, 07:55:34 am
Great you just made Legolas leave the SA:MP!  :mad:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Aksel on May 04, 2010, 08:12:54 am
says cop...

No, says Baba.



Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Argoplayer on May 04, 2010, 10:22:01 am
This is curently diabeled
YAY! :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Whiteman on May 04, 2010, 12:54:39 pm
There are also many other rules, that are not written here at this topic.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 01:58:21 pm
Guys rules are rules I think we all agree on it. But the rules are just so that there won't be any misunderstandings between players. For example if both players agree that they can do drive-by's as a driver to each other, then I can't see why not? I mean it is your own contract, no fuss is made, as long as you don't mess other people in it. of course there might be some things you have to explain to admins, but those are details.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: 9r2e5i3k on May 04, 2010, 02:08:22 pm
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed (as Agent is doing in the picture) as otherwise they have no way of stopping a suspect by force. As a motorcycle it not easy to handle while shooting, the effect of the glitch is neutralized.

So when the cop has other ways, he doesn't shoot.

What you criminals fighting for is basically to get killing by drive-by on a bike allowed for criminals. Note that Agent was shooting at the car, not at people. You're fighting for "equality", while this is not a team deathmatch server where all "teams" have to be "equal". This is role-play, where different roles have different goals and advantages.


Also:
The general rules cover every situation, however it requires the player to use his brains. The more specific rules we will make. the more players will wave them to get advantage over others.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Oliver on May 04, 2010, 03:23:46 pm
This is role-play, where different roles have different goals and advantages.

This.
For example, you can't just roll into an enemy hood with a bunch of friends as a cop and cause some major destruction, you have to abide by the protocol if you wish to keep your job. As a criminal, however, you can shoot without worrying about /su, typing which has got me killed more times than I can remember.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Hidduh on May 04, 2010, 03:36:35 pm
Great. Good job guys.

You guys drove Legolas, one of the most patient, friendly guys in the server, to his breaking point and he has said good bye?
I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would argue with a server owner, while he was the one who created the server and nourished it from day one...You spit it back at him by moaning and complaining and targeting people and being all 'round children...Seriously shameful...I hope this is a wake up call to you guys.


Now drop the (...)ing arguing / 'discussion'.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Unmountable on May 04, 2010, 03:38:25 pm
Well done.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Dave on May 04, 2010, 03:40:22 pm
I see some people do not belong in this community...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Hidduh on May 04, 2010, 03:43:30 pm
I see some people do not belong in this community...

+1

---

If you don't have anything nice to say, please get out of this topic and seek for another community where they appreciate moaning and complaining.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 04:14:59 pm
I said civilians and suspects. How is a civilian or suspect who is (perhaps in the middle of a hitman contract) chasing someone in a bike on their own, just like this hypothetical cop you mentioned in your post supposed to stop the person they are chasing. I believe it is possible for a cop to stop a suspect in a car without drive-bying them - this can be achieved in various ways, such as:

  • Trying to convince the suspect to stop the car via using the megaphones on the bikes.
  • Forcing the suspect in the car to blow up their car by good driving like forcing the driver to hit the walls a few times or making the suspect's car flip by making the suspect mess up a jump or drive poorly in a hilly area.
  • Forcing the suspect to drown the car by careful tail-gating.
  • Waiting for the driver to stop at a place such as an ammunation and attacking then, without the drive-bying.
  • Requesting a Hydra or a Hunter to take out the suspect's car on their cop radio.

I really don't think it's on for cops to be allowed to drive-by as driver in a bike, although your idea of the balancing act in determining what can be allowed and what can not is very thoughtful by weighing up if a glitch's advantages can be eliminated by other factors. I just don't think that it will work in practice. Yes, rules should be flexible as you mentioned but do you not think that the fact there's now a rule where cops can drive-by as drive-by on bikes however not on cars but can drive-by as passenger whilst on both bikes and in cars yet civilians and suspects not being allowed to drive-by as driver in either bikes or cars despite being able to drive-by as passengers in both bikes and cars is slightly contradictory?
Not at all.
Rule is very simple. Drive by as driver is not allowed. Exception, cop on bike.

Of course you can try to reverse it to complicate it.

Your reasoning:
- Megaphone : reaction of suspect is he can do nothing
- Forcing: bike against car is no match.
- tailgating: will take minimal 20 minutes until fuel runs out.
- waiting for a driver to stop: see the above point
- calling backup : usually backup will not arrive, and repeated location is hard during a careful chase.

The rule is simple, reasoning solid.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 04:21:12 pm
When you see me and Violet agreeing on an issue, that means its definitely the ultimate logic.

With common seance, if cops or other law force members, are allowed to drive-by as drivers on bikes, then all others(Criminals, and civilians) should be able the same.
Violet already mention the hitman example, what if  a suspect is being shot by a cop on bike who's going driectly toward him (Which is likely to happen with this rule), and just using auto-aim glitch to get an magnificent advantage?

You say that criminals should not suppose to use it , cause its not their part to go around shooting people, but the same can apply on cops, so if they can use it ( by this they can also abuse it), so should cirminals/citizens be allowed to, if they abuse it, it ends up in punishment, in the same way as cops would get.

Half of ARPD is using auto-aim already (Check most of SASD SACS videos on youtube) , this is just too much.

The logic is extremely one-sided in relation to this. If suspects do not wish to fight or run, the cop has no reason to use the driveby.
A hitman is not supposed to work as Nigga-Rambo, but to use skills in order to kill without getting in trouble.

Cops are supposed to stop fleeing suspects, and will always be provided with the means to do so. As a single cop on a bike has no means to stop fleeing suspects other than driveby, it is the ultimate logic that it is allowed.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 04:22:24 pm
So why can't criminals on a motorbike, while chasing someone, use driver DB?
Or is it ANOTHER Cop/Criminal inequality?
Because criminals should not chase.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: TruthSvensson on May 04, 2010, 04:28:32 pm
Because criminals should not chase.
What if a hitman is chasing his victim?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 04:31:53 pm
What if a hitman is chasing his victim?
See my post to Violet.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: BlackBird on May 04, 2010, 05:12:44 pm
A hitman is not supposed to work as Nigga-Rambo, but to use skills in order to kill without getting in trouble.
On the lighter side of things, this part of your post, is absolutely hilarious..just saying.

Anyway, rules are rules guys, why the fuck is driveby for driver such a big fucking deal for criminals anyway?
You guys lived without for years, and all of a sudden you finally figure out the real definition of the rule and suddenly it changes everything?
It's only fair, in case you haven't noticed, and this isn't meant to offend arpd, but they suck at teamwork, majority of freecops refuse to help for the greater good, and majority of officers are stuckup and to busy criticizing freecops. They few that actually work as cops, do it alone majority of the time, and majority of the time in pd cars, not bikes, so whats the big fucking deal?
Are you all capable of carrying on like you all have for years, or are you gonna regress back to a fetal position in your mothers womb whining about something that has ALWAYS been allowed? Theres no changing this rule, theres no chance of changing any rule, that has been made perfectly clear.
Fucking be creative, and stop fucking moaning.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Daco on May 04, 2010, 05:50:33 pm
Heeey, debate but do not flame.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Petar on May 04, 2010, 06:31:04 pm
- Forcing: bike against car is no match.

Cops have cars too . Why not get one ?

A hitman is not supposed to work as Nigga-Rambo

And cops should ?


Because criminals should not chase.

Example: Gvardia vs Diablos. Gvardia kills all Diablos, except Pablo, who is in a BMX jumping like a bunny.

Criminals shouldn't chase ? I wouldn't agree.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 04, 2010, 06:53:13 pm
Now cops can driveby as driver ?!?

1st - Cop bikes are fast.
2nd - I got rammed by bikes lots of times if you can't use a car like criminals.
3rd - DB as driver is like an autoaim.
4th - COPS have DB as drivers allowed since on bikes... Criminals can't even enter in a bike because admins thought unfair to cop side and now you guys give them DB as drivers.....

[sarcasm]Yup, seams fair.[/sarcasm] -.-
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Flash on May 04, 2010, 07:19:36 pm
Rafael is right, atleast allow bikes for criminals.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jcstodds on May 04, 2010, 07:27:22 pm
  I do not support any such "driveby as driver" rule. Really it's not the rule itself but the implications. Firstly as a cop, I would not want such a powerful weapon against criminals, it will make them angry and shoot back - throwing away any RP that could have happened. Also I fully support patrolling with a friend or something, which you can do on a bike. Drive-by as driver promotes lone patrolling which is neither as fun nor effective as team work and presents unfair advantages over other players.

  The main abuse I see from this is cops 'accidentally' shooting criminals dead with rapid fire auto aim caused by drive by.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: BKP on May 04, 2010, 07:29:34 pm
Now cops will take a bike and go driveby some orange dudes  :ram:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 07:36:51 pm
What about when there is single bikecop and a single criminal in a car( situation where I find myself several times). Now how can a criminal defend himself/herself when a bikercop is shooting his/her car?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Frank_Hawk on May 04, 2010, 08:33:21 pm
A majority of this topic relates to having a larger voice of view which can be addressed and covered in this SA:MP idea:

The criminal segment of Argonath represents a diverse portfolio of players ranging from different backgrounds with contrasting approaches and unique models. Through the growing commitment towards the diversification of the criminal society, it has been provisionally agreed that it is now feasible for the construction of a criminal body to represent official criminal groups of Argonath.

The commission (criminal body of Argonath) will represent all criminal groups and act as a 'one voice' for criminals to voice their views, concerns and queries to. The commission will be primarily responsible for overseeing the official groups of Argonath - its role will include: voting new official groups in, voting out existing ones and agreeing on rules which will be enforced in the official groups. The hierachical positioning of the comission will align with the SAPD command. The commission will be limited to five leaders (official group leaders) along with non-executives managers and leaders playing consultation roles. Decisions will be made based on majority voting where all appointees will be expected to participate in professionally.

The official criminal groups of Argonath will be controlled and monitored by the commission based on a variety of factors which include: achieving excellence, communication, working together, understanding issues and finding solutions together.  The objective of the official criminal groups of Argonath is to add another tier to the structural hierarchy. The groups should be admired, celebrated and highlighted as the benchmark and rolemodels of criminal activity throughout Argonath. They should serve as entity that developing players aim of achieving in their Argonath career.

Hierachy of structure for criminals
1. Commission (criminal body of Argonath) - Direction, influence, support, development, benchmark and rolemodels.
2. Official criminal groups - Supporting comission values, adhering to regulations and supporting non-official groups.
3. Non official groups - Working in aspiration of achieving official recognition.

Through the trust that is expected to be ascertained, we expect to release a number of restricted weapons such as rocket launchers, chainsaws, firebombs, grenades and satchels to the official groups based on their commitment and adherence to the following enforcements:

- Stringent rule abiding enforced throughout the group
     - This includes moaning to be forbidden in /p.
     - Script adherence in protocol with existing rules.
     - Compliance with all commission regulations.
     - Aligning with a positive and constructive atmosphere.

New and regular player commitment
     - Open, transparent, friendly, approachable and helpful.
     - Committing to their development regardless of impact on you.
     - Nurturing in line with Argonath vision.

Cohesion
    - Working together with admins on issues/concerns/queries.
    - Working together with other official group members on issues
    - Working together with SAPD command on concerns/queries
    - Establishing a friendly and common vision for the future
    - Sportsmanship (An attitude for fair play, courtesy toward opponents, ethical behaviour, integrity and grace in losing.)

The commission and official criminal groups will be determined on a number of factors which include: rule abiding, new player commitment, working together with others, friendliness, conduct and general communication attitude (/cb, /pm and /p). Whilst contrary to belief, it will not depend on the traditional heritage in Argonath whilst it may be taken into account.

The proposition above is preliminary and subject to change without notice.

Please contribute to whether you support and in addition how it may be improved.

Building on the above idea and the good positive feedback we have recieved. We are now moving to accomodate groups by facilitating an area which ideas can flourish through contrasting views and constructive debates. A.R.U.N (Argonath United Nations) will be reintroduced containing the above idea to motivate and encourage commitment in bid of self-improvement.  In the weeks ahead, we will be rolling out A.R.U.N (subject to calibration) in hope of gaining strong uptake from group leaders to form a solid foundation of strength. It is in your interest to continue suggesting ideas in the above SA:MP idea topic as it will be taken into consideration and may be implemented under the A.R.U.N brand of development.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 04, 2010, 08:53:00 pm
Now cops will take a bike and go driveby some orange dudes  :ram:

And you think that right ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 04, 2010, 08:58:18 pm
Because susects are not supposed to run around shooting at everything.

So wait, a mafia member chasing another mafia member (for example) may not break the driver driveby rule, but a cop chasing a suspect may?
I try to never say it outright, since nobody likes people who say what everyone is thinking, but I must ask - why are the server owners so clearly pro-cop?


there is no other way a single cop on a bike can stop a suspect in a car.

That is incorrect. You can lag ram cars quite easily in bikes.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: BlackEagle on May 04, 2010, 09:08:42 pm
Excuse me, but this "cop drive-by" rule is bullshit.

Edit
As for Pro-cop, yeh we are next week allowing all cops to use the hydra, hunter, rhino and rocket launchers. Criminals and citizens will be limited to colts.
Don't forget giving them permission to hack!
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 09:14:06 pm
So wait, a mafia member chasing another mafia member (for example) may not break the driver driveby rule, but a cop chasing a suspect may?
I try to never say it outright, since nobody likes people who say what everyone is thinking, but I must ask - why are the server owners so clearly pro-cop?


That is incorrect. You can lag ram cars quite easily in bikes.
People seem to act as if it is anew rule. On the contrary this rule has existed since SA:MP 0.1b and is not going to change no makker how much criminals whine about it.

Perhaps the constant attempts by criminals to get more advantages for their trade has brought up this rule. Sorry. Don;t like it, ask SAPD to limit the driveby ability  so that only freecops are allowed to do it.

As for Pro-cop, yeh we are next week allowing all cops to use the hydra, hunter, rhino and rocket launchers. Criminals and citizens will be limited to colts.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 09:15:09 pm
What about when there is single bikecop and a single criminal in a car( situation where I find myself several times). Now how can a criminal defend himself/herself when a bikercop is shooting his/her car?
By stopping the car and shooting ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 09:16:45 pm
Example: Gvardia vs Diablos. Gvardia kills all Diablos, except Pablo, who is in a BMX jumping like a bunny.

Criminals shouldn't chase ? I wouldn't agree.
If he is suspected, he has no business driving the BMX. If not, you can use a car to stop him.. can;t get him ? then you know why suspects are not allowed to use them.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 04, 2010, 09:25:38 pm
Perhaps the constant attempts by criminals to get more advantages for their trade has brought up this rule.

And yet attempts by police to get advantages for their trade are met with solutions.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 09:31:35 pm
And yet attempts by police to get advantages for their trade are met with solutions.
:rofl:
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srsly ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 04, 2010, 09:35:51 pm
Yes.

I could make such an incredibly long list of police scripts, but would find it difficult to even justify using bullet points for a list of suspect scripts. For criminal group scripts, I would not even need a list - there is only one and that is also shared with clans.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: BlackBird on May 04, 2010, 09:43:02 pm
A majority of this topic relates to having a larger voice of view which can be addressed and covered in this SA:MP idea:

Building on the above idea and the good positive feedback we have recieved. We are now moving to accomodate groups by facilitating an area which ideas can flourish through contrasting views and constructive debates. A.R.U.N (Argonath United Nations) will be reintroduced containing the above idea to motivate and encourage commitment in bid of self-improvement.  In the weeks ahead, we will be rolling out A.R.U.N (subject to calibration) in hope of gaining strong uptake from group leaders to form a solid foundation of strength. It is in your interest to continue suggesting ideas in the above SA:MP idea topic as it will be taken into consideration and may be implemented under the A.R.U.N brand of development.

I Actually don't support this.
This will only lead to more moaning among criminals and the same discrimination that exists inside arpd when someone trys to rp something.
'Your not official why should we give a fuck" Would become the new slogan of criminal groups. Brilliant idea frank, lets endorse more moaning and problems then there currently are.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Maladoi on May 04, 2010, 09:46:17 pm
Suspects can't ride bikes , okay , i understand its hard for cops to ram off someone from the bike , especially if the person in cause lags ... but a rule giving the cops ability to DDB on police bikes only is BS srsly.. Bring the bikes back to suspects then as an equal rule ... Soo many advantages for the cops , they have scripted ways of earning cash , now this easy way of killing anyone ? I was unarmed and wasn't moving when suddenly a cop on a motorbike came to me and started DDB'ing i reported him the admin told me its ok .. nice , ain't it ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Oliver on May 04, 2010, 09:48:48 pm
srsly ?

Why can't suspects ride bikes?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Vince on May 04, 2010, 09:52:41 pm
Why can't suspects ride bikes?

They can..?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Daco on May 04, 2010, 09:55:05 pm
O_O


No they can't.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Vince on May 04, 2010, 09:58:53 pm
Oh and not to mention, yes, criminals have no advantages. Just the fact they can choose three sports cars to buy and can completely tune which all out run a cop car as well as our little LVPD pursuit cars. I had a ride-along with Ben one night, and ALL three of the suspects we chased were in completely tuned with NOS. Not to mention cops are the ones who have to CHASE the criminals, criminals just have to focus on fighting back and getting away.

You're right. Cops have it so much better nowadays.


sarcasm. I might've believed it before the whole new car system, but honestly now... We can't use our "free" (note that we only make $100 per suspect we kill.) equipped weapons on a car that is 3 times faster than an average PD car, and can easily escape a Buffalo on a highway.



Yes, suspects can ride bikes if they're already on them and get suspected.. But it's obvious people don't realize that, so why don't we just take it away? :roll:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: itsonlyaname on May 04, 2010, 10:02:26 pm
They can..?

What Oliver ment, was why can suspects not use bikes once they have fallen off said bike, when police chase suspects with such fast bikes that suspects are not allowed to use; Nrg, Pcj etc...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 04, 2010, 10:10:25 pm
Just the fact they can choose three sports cars to buy

As can cops.

and ALL three of the suspects we chased were in completely tuned with NOS.

NOS cannot be saved (?), so they bought it seperately. Very unlikely and rare to see a car with it.

Not to mention cops are the ones who have to CHASE the criminals, criminals just have to focus on fighting back and getting away.

I'll give you that one, but thats an inherent point of cat and mouse type situations.

You're right. Cops have it so much better nowadays.

Ok.

sarcasm.

Not so much.

I might've believed it before the whole new car system,

That, when you think about it, slightly favours cops given that there are almost no cars around if yours blows up outside of LS. As for more people having sports cars.. you also have sports cars.
Nonetheless, a buffalo can catch most cars in SA with the exception of perhaps the infernus and the bullet. I should know, I use it in every single chase on both sides.


Yes, suspects can ride bikes if they're already on them and get suspected..

Which is a valid measure to stop you flying off a bike when suspected.
It does not mean that suspects can use bikes, because they can't.
I would support such rule exceptions as "cop bike driveby" if they had their own small rules. If suspects could use motorbikes, for example, I would have no issue with cops being able to driver driveby those. But the HPV is extremely fast (not to mention the other bikes that cops can use) and being able to driver driveby kills the chase very fast.



However, I should look at this bike driveby exception from my surprisingly experienced cop view too.
From the view of me as an on duty cop, it means I can drive my motorbike up behind suspects and totally destroy their car in seconds without much effort, as long as other things have been tried first, such as asking for surrender.
So in that respect, as Officer Panda, I quite like it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 10:17:36 pm
By stopping the car and shooting ?
As I understood, the bikercop can still then shoot me from his/her bike having a greater accuracy. Am I right?

I am just trying to figure out, if a bikercop has an advantage over a criminal on foot.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: BlackBird on May 04, 2010, 10:22:06 pm
As I understood, the bikercop can still then shoot me from his/her bike having a greater accuracy. Am I right?

I am just trying to figure out, if a bikercop has an advantage over a criminal on foot.
The Cop can only Shoot the car, not the person.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 10:24:18 pm
Yes.

I could make such an incredibly long list of police scripts, but would find it difficult to even justify using bullet points for a list of suspect scripts. For criminal group scripts, I would not even need a list - there is only one and that is also shared with clans.
Then I guess there is no need for a gang war system or criminal commission.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Frank_Hawk on May 04, 2010, 10:24:57 pm
I Actually don't support this.
This will only lead to more moaning among criminals and the same discrimination that exists inside arpd when someone trys to rp something.
'Your not official why should we give a f**k" Would become the new slogan of criminal groups. Brilliant idea frank, lets endorse more moaning and problems then there currently are.

Blackbird, the concept is being brought in to provide additional support to SA:MP groups which have through the original topic of idea gained strong backing for implementation.  Criminal/group hierarchies vary and in turn contrast heavily in comparison to the SAPD where all ranks are fixed. The scope for discrimination is low and if raised would be countered through collated agreement of official group bodies. In relations to undermining other non-official groups, it will be inscribed that the role of the official groups will be to influence, help and guide other groups to prosperity.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 10:25:16 pm
Suspects can't ride bikes , okay , i understand its hard for cops to ram off someone from the bike , especially if the person in cause lags ... but a rule giving the cops ability to DDB on police bikes only is BS srsly.. Bring the bikes back to suspects then as an equal rule ... Soo many advantages for the cops , they have scripted ways of earning cash , now this easy way of killing anyone ? I was unarmed and wasn't moving when suddenly a cop on a motorbike came to me and started DDB'ing i reported him the admin told me its ok .. nice , ain't it ?
Its not a new rule...it has been in place since we opened SA:MP
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 10:28:51 pm
The Cop can only Shoot the car, not the person.
If from a bike you can only shoot other vehicles, why it is banned for criminals anyway? So they can't blow up other criminals or cops cars?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 10:30:14 pm
If from a bike you can only shoot other vehicles, why it is banned for criminals anyway? So they can't blow up other criminals or cops cars?
Because criminals do not chase suspects ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Vince on May 04, 2010, 10:31:30 pm
As can cops.

Not in the SAPD, there is a very limited amount of situations as to where SAPD employees may use ridiculously fast sports car. One of them being a Buffalo, which isn't fast at all when it comes to their use on highways/freeways.

NOS cannot be saved (?), so they bought it seperately. Very unlikely and rare to see a car with it.
Correct, yet what's stopping a criminal from buying it seperately? It's very likely when it comes to the criminals with tuned out Bullets, of which I've seen three of in ONE patrol whateveryouwanttocallit with Ben.

I'll give you that one, but thats an inherent point of cat and mouse type situations.

None the less, thank you.

Ok.
I'm glad we see eye to eye.

Not so much.
From my standpoint, quite a bit of it.

That, when you think about it, slightly favours cops given that there are almost no cars around if yours blows up outside of LS. As for more people having sports cars.. you also have sports cars.
Nonetheless, a buffalo can catch most cars in SA with the exception of perhaps the infernus and the bullet. I should know, I use it in every single chase on both sides.

Exactly where your stance is invalid. You're correct, a Buffalo can catch up to most cars in SA, with the exception of a few. The only problem for us cops being, them few types of vehicles in SA can be purchased three times and used whenever a criminal wishes to logon to this server, with the new car system.

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the new car system. I'm just pointing out that cops are at little to none of an advantage against your average veteran criminal nowadays in a pursuit, so to say.



However, I should look at this bike driveby exception from my surprisingly experienced cop view too.
From the view of me as an on duty cop, it means I can drive my motorbike up behind suspects and totally destroy their car in seconds without much effort, as long as other things have been tried first, such as asking for surrender.
So in that respect, as Officer Panda, I quite like it.

But I thought you liked using a Buffalo, Officer Panda? :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 10:36:53 pm
Because criminals do not chase suspects ?

But they might chase each other in a roleplay situation. For example hitman chasing down his/her target.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Freedom on May 04, 2010, 10:43:28 pm
By stopping the car and shooting ?
If unarmed?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: BlackBird on May 04, 2010, 10:47:46 pm
Blackbird, the concept is being brought in to provide additional support to SA:MP groups which have through the original topic of idea gained strong backing for implementation.  Criminal/group hierarchies vary and in turn contrast heavily in comparison to the SAPD where all ranks are fixed. The scope for discrimination is low and if raised would be countered through collated agreement of official group bodies. In relations to undermining other non-official groups, it will be inscribed that the role of the official groups will be to influence, help and guide other groups to prosperity.
Your missing what I'm saying.
I'm glad your able to be so optimistic about something that is going to fail.
Regardless what you do, criminals are gonna moan about something.
Until cops are removed completely from script support, criminals are gonna moan, regardless how even the admins it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 10:49:36 pm
If unarmed?
How will they do a driveby if unarmed ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 10:50:29 pm
But they might chase each other in a roleplay situation. For example hitman chasing down his/her target.
See my reply to Violet. Trouble complehensive reading today ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 04, 2010, 10:59:54 pm
Not at all.
Rule is very simple. Drive by as driver is not allowed. Exception, cop on bike.

Of course you can try to reverse it to complicate it.

Your reasoning:
- Megaphone : reaction of suspect is he can do nothing
- Forcing: bike against car is no match.
- tailgating: will take minimal 20 minutes until fuel runs out.
- waiting for a driver to stop: see the above point
- calling backup : usually backup will not arrive, and repeated location is hard during a careful chase.

The rule is simple, reasoning solid.
Think from the cop's eyes instead of the spectator's eyes for a sec.:
"FUK MAI KAR IZ MESED UP AND HE 2 FAST"
"OH LUK AN ABANDONED KOP BIKE IMMA TAEK IT AN BLOW TEH FUX OUT OF TEH KRIMINAL WIF MY AEWSUM SMG"
*cop ditches car and gets on bike*
*cop sees the criminal*
"OHAI"
*cop opens fire*

The cop is basically wielding a crappy minigun; it shoots 1/4 as slow and has approx. 1/5 of the damage. If you're unlucky enough to easily blow the guy up, he's GUARANTEED going to have a few popped tires, in which the case he slides into a pole, spins out, flies into a wall, and EXPLODESINTOHIGHHELL
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 11:00:55 pm
Not at all.
Rule is very simple. Drive by as driver is not allowed. Exception, cop on bike.

Of course you can try to reverse it to complicate it.

Your reasoning:
- Megaphone : reaction of suspect is he can do nothing
- Forcing: bike against car is no match.
- tailgating: will take minimal 20 minutes until fuel runs out.
- waiting for a driver to stop: see the above point
- calling backup : usually backup will not arrive, and repeated location is hard during a careful chase.

The rule is simple, reasoning solid.
The logic is extremely one-sided in relation to this. If suspects do not wish to fight or run, the cop has no reason to use the driveby.
A hitman is not supposed to work as Nigga-Rambo, but to use skills in order to kill without getting in trouble.

Cops are supposed to stop fleeing suspects, and will always be provided with the means to do so. As a single cop on a bike has no means to stop fleeing suspects other than driveby, it is the ultimate logic that it is allowed.
Because criminals should not chase.
If you think these posts. Well yes, the rule is simple. But it does not cover the problem of hitman chasing his hit. Because hitmans aren't always that extreme killers, a lot of the times players just goes and kills their victim and that's it. And killing victim in that way isn't automatically "getting into trouble".
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 04, 2010, 11:04:08 pm
May I add:

The cops aren't retarded. They CAN and HAVE taken out suspects in larger vehicles (e.g., sentinel vs cop bike), so they do not require this, "crutch", in a sense, under their arm when they have a perfect leg. It's practically an insult to give them such a "crutch." It's like me giving an anorexic man living on the road an offer for lypo suction.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 11:09:24 pm
If you think these posts. Well yes, the rule is simple. But it does not cover the problem of hitman chasing his hit. Because hitmans aren't always that extreme killers, a lot of the times players just goes and kills their victim and that's it.
That is not our problem that hitmen fail.  :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 04, 2010, 11:10:34 pm
May I add:

The cops aren't retarded. They CAN and HAVE taken out suspects in larger vehicles (e.g., sentinel vs cop bike), so they do not require this, "crutch", in a sense, under their arm when they have a perfect leg. It's practically an insult to give them such a "crutch." It's like me giving an anorexic man living on the road an offer for lypo suction.
You are the one who is trying to take the cruth away to see if the leg is good or not.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 04, 2010, 11:12:03 pm
What you're telling me is an exception has been made to allow a form of HP hacking, even if it's temporary, basically.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 04, 2010, 11:13:32 pm
That is not our problem that hitmen fail.  :D
Give the hitmen a slack :D Ah anyway, I have given my opinion as a player, and I think I have heard. I support an idea, of letting criminals and cops use drive-by's on a bike against other vehicles.

Thank you Gandalf for reading and answering. :)
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Frank_Hawk on May 04, 2010, 11:16:30 pm
Your missing what I'm saying.
I'm glad your able to be so optimistic about something that is going to fail.
Regardless what you do, criminals are gonna moan about something.
Until cops are removed completely from script support, criminals are gonna moan, regardless how even the admins it.

What Argonath needs are more optimists and less pessimists.   :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Mafs on May 04, 2010, 11:17:19 pm
HPV is not fast, have seen so myself. Have overtaken one in a PD car hundreds of times.

PD car is pretty fast also, with the right driver.. seriously cops shouldn't complain all the time, they're fast enough. And if it's not fast enough, get your own car. (Altough not possible if you're going to do traffic stops, but that may speak for itself.)

And to everybody that complains that you can not stop a car with a police bike, get a f*cking car then..

About cops not being able to catch a criminal because he is too fast with his vehicle, is not true most of the times. The police is often not able to catch-up with a criminal because the cops constantly colide with each other in an attempt to get a criminal, do not blame fast cars for this, jeez..

To sum it all up, get some skills instead of complaining.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 04, 2010, 11:35:57 pm
HPV is not fast, have seen so myself. Have overtaken one in a PD car hundreds of times.

PD car is pretty fast also, with the right driver.. seriously cops shouldn't complain all the time, they're fast enough. And if it's not fast enough, get your own car. (Altough not possible if you're going to do traffic stops, but that may speak for itself.)

And to everybody that complains that you can not stop a car with a police bike, get a f*cking car then..

About cops not being able to catch a criminal because he is too fast with his vehicle, is not true most of the times. The police is often not able to catch-up with a criminal because the cops constantly colide with each other in an attempt to get a criminal, do not blame fast cars for this, jeez..

To sum it all up, get some skills instead of complaining.
About the HPV part, I've seen an HPV take out a monster  :lol:
No joke. At all.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 04, 2010, 11:47:43 pm
Not at all.
Rule is very simple. Drive by as driver is not allowed. Exception, cop on bike.

Fixed below:
Not at all.
Rule is very simple. Drive by as driver is not allowed. *Exception cop on bike chasing a suspect who is in a vehicle and not stopping :lol:.

So how come hitmen are not allowed to use drive-by as driver whilst on a bike and cops can? Your reasoning in your post directed towards me shows that hitmen deserve to have the rule exemption as much as cops do on bikes. In the same way you will have people abusing this rule by using it in the middle of a gang war or to kill someone they don't like, I can see just as many cops abusing the rule by suspecting people for frivolous reasons and drive-bying them to death whilst they are motionless and not in a vehicle within seconds. For these reasons, I think there should be no exemptions to the rule at all. Thus the rule will be even more simple and the reasoning more solid.


Your reasoning:
- Megaphone : reaction of suspect is he can do nothing
- Forcing: bike against car is no match.
- tailgating: will take minimal 20 minutes until fuel runs out.
- waiting for a driver to stop: see the above point
- calling backup : usually backup will not arrive, and repeated location is hard during a careful chase.
-Megaphone: Who knows, maybe if you promise the guy a short jail term he may actually surrender?
-Forcing: Never heard of lag-ramming? Done properly a mountain bike can crash a coach...
-Tailgating: Not everytime as the new vehicle script added means that the fuel in your car is not replenished after a relog. Stop the suspect from filling up by shooting him after coming off the bike and he has a popped tyre; after a while the car will become more damaged until the suspect must use a Pay and Spray, stop the suspect from using the Pay and Spray and after some time the car will blow up. Alternatively, wait for the suspect to go into the Pay and Spray and aim properly, you can easily kill the suspect if you can shoot relatively well.
-Calling backup: Stated problem overcome by using the cop channel on Argonath TeamSpeak.


One more thing.. When you say that this rule has been here since 0.1b how come the administration was not informed of the exception of this rule at all until a developer used it? I know that you are entitled to make up the rules as you go along as it is your server however I find it unjust that you can claim to have an exception to a rule for two years that was non-existent to 99.9% of the server until a member of HQ used it.  Why weren't admins told not to punish cops drive-bying on bikes again on admin chat after they did it? As far as I am aware, the only people aware of this rule exception were yourself, Legolas and possibly the other few members of HQ. It would have only been beneficial if the existence of this exception of the rule was communicated to every member of the community in 0.1b - the date you gave for its creation.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pablo on May 04, 2010, 11:49:37 pm
If unarmed?

I saw CBFasi killing suspect which was unarmed, running to the car... The vehicle which was used was Hunter.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 05, 2010, 12:06:25 am
Then I guess there is no need for a gang war system or criminal commission.

Gang war system is player made and run at the moment, the criminal commission on the other hand is looking very good and is set to resoundingly shut me up when it comes to criminal/cop equality discussions - which I think we all want.

But I thought you liked using a Buffalo, Officer Panda? :D

I do, but if I can driveby off my bike I may use that instead :3.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 05, 2010, 12:09:28 am
Chill guys, we'll all simply go on duty and then everyone will be happy. And yes I am serious. Cause this is too much for anyone.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Maxy on May 05, 2010, 12:40:33 am
Cool new rule.

It seems like a great idea to have cops use driver driveby on bikes. I mean, they obviously aren't good enough to use bikes to catch cars without drivebying ;)

Cops obviously need these advantages, with the addition of a Hydra, a Hunter, /weaponequip, and now driver driveby, we keep seeing that no matter what is added, criminals just adapt and become even harder to kill. I'm just waiting to see what will be added next. Perhaps grenades for cop use, because criminals crowd together too much and cops can't kill them, if I correctly get the logic.


Or maybe I just really don't understand the logic in adding this.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Squeak on May 05, 2010, 12:43:17 am
Cool new rule.

It seems like a great idea to have cops use driver driveby on bikes. I mean, they obviously aren't good enough to use bikes to catch cars without drivebying ;)

Cops obviously need these advantages, with the addition of a Hydra, a Hunter, /weaponequip, and now driver driveby, we keep seeing that no matter what is added, criminals just adapt and become even harder to kill. I'm just waiting to see what will be added next. Perhaps grenades for cop use, because criminals crowd together too much and cops can't kill them, if I correctly get the logic.


Or maybe I just really don't understand the logic in adding this.
OMG STFU MOAN MORE JESUS
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Maxy on May 05, 2010, 12:46:06 am
The driveby rule falls under Glitching. There for it is not allowed, as the driver of a vehicle when using driveby gets an auto-aiming and can not be hurt due to a special action.
For cops on a motorcycle it is allowed (as Agent is doing in the picture) as otherwise they have no way of stopping a suspect by force. As a motorcycle it not easy to handle while shooting, the effect of the glitch is neutralized.

The general rules cover every situation, however it requires the player to use his brains. The more specific rules we will make. the more players will wave them to get advantage over others.

For this reason the rules will remain simple and general. If you wish to explore the limits, you will find them by admin punishment.


I think you and I both know what you did here, Gandalf.


Also, I would like to add that no matter what cops throw at us, a good criminal can handle all of it. So, bring it on SAPD.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 05, 2010, 12:50:30 am
Think from the cop's eyes instead of the spectator's eyes for a sec.:
"FUK MAI KAR IZ MESED UP AND HE 2 FAST"
"OH LUK AN ABANDONED KOP BIKE IMMA TAEK IT AN BLOW TEH FUX OUT OF TEH KRIMINAL WIF MY AEWSUM SMG"
*cop ditches car and gets on bike*
*cop sees the criminal*
"OHAI"
*cop opens fire*

The cop is basically wielding a crappy minigun; it shoots 1/4 as slow and has approx. 1/5 of the damage. If you're unlucky enough to easily blow the guy up, he's GUARANTEED going to have a few popped tires, in which the case he slides into a pole, spins out, flies into a wall, and EXPLODESINTOHIGHHELL

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, i was expecting your post long ago finaly you made it !! <3
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 05, 2010, 01:27:55 am
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, i was expecting your post long ago finaly you made it !! <3
Waiting for the retarded one? :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Sammir on May 05, 2010, 09:24:57 am
You keep moaning = more advantages for cops  :evil:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Oliver on May 05, 2010, 10:02:47 am
I actually don't mind cops having advantages - it should be like that as cops have a lot of advantages in real life. It'd be odd if criminals and cops had the same rights. It gives you a MUCH greater sense of accomplishment when you take a fully armed cop down than when you take a fully armed criminal down.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 10:26:01 am
Fixed below:
So how come hitmen are not allowed to use drive-by as driver whilst on a bike and cops can? Your reasoning in your post directed towards me shows that hitmen deserve to have the rule exemption as much as cops do on bikes. In the same way you will have people abusing this rule by using it in the middle of a gang war or to kill someone they don't like, I can see just as many cops abusing the rule by suspecting people for frivolous reasons and drive-bying them to death whilst they are motionless and not in a vehicle within seconds. For these reasons, I think there should be no exemptions to the rule at all. Thus the rule will be even more simple and the reasoning more solid.
A hitman is not chasing a wanted suspect. Do not try to twist rules to your advantage, people got banned for that.

.


One more thing.. When you say that this rule has been here since 0.1b how come the administration was not informed of the exception of this rule at all until a developer used it? I know that you are entitled to make up the rules as you go along as it is your server however I find it unjust that you can claim to have an exception to a rule for two years that was non-existent to 99.9% of the server until a member of HQ used it.  Why weren't admins told not to punish cops drive-bying on bikes again on admin chat after they did it? As far as I am aware, the only people aware of this rule exception were yourself, Legolas and possibly the other few members of HQ. It would have only been beneficial if the existence of this exception of the rule was communicated to every member of the community in 0.1b - the date you gave for its creation.
Make up rules as we go along ?

Quote
Quote from: Raslman on October 26, 2007, 03:36:30 pm

    Well, i got problems with suspects. About drive-bying. Today im pursuit Omri, And Mumin, in PD bike. I start shoot at they. Can you anser: can police man shoot at suspects from bike with tec9 e.t.c?


If they do not give up? you can use any kind of tactic to stop the car with criminals... I hardly see any other way to stop a car, being chase it on bike and being alone...

The only people who wish to make up rules as they go along are our beloved players....
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 10:28:04 am
Gang war system is player made and run at the moment, the criminal commission on the other hand is looking very good and is set to resoundingly shut me up when it comes to criminal/cop equality discussions - which I think we all want.

I do, but if I can driveby off my bike I may use that instead :3.
The gang war system is player made however supported by us, as if we did not support gang wars would be completely forbidden.

the criminal commission is not for cop/criminal equality discussions. It is for criminal opportunities, however that is a very different subject.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 10:30:23 am
Cool new rule.


Its not a new rule. If players had not started moaning about it, it might have even been forgotten. However as criminals think they know the rules better as developers it can happen that forgotten rules are brought up.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Daco on May 05, 2010, 10:39:17 am
I think this thread can be locked as every complain got dealth with.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Maxy on May 05, 2010, 01:56:49 pm
Its not a new rule. If players had not started moaning about it, it might have even been forgotten. However as criminals think they know the rules better as developers it can happen that forgotten rules are brought up.


What's with the hostility, I actually agreed with the rule. I was being serious.

I don't think I know the rules better than the developers, but I can't remember this ever being allowed.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 02:32:12 pm

What's with the hostility, I actually agreed with the rule. I was being serious.

I don't think I know the rules better than the developers, but I can't remember this ever being allowed.
Check my quote of aragorn in 2007. Perhaps that was before your time here. :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Aksel on May 05, 2010, 02:38:45 pm
Let's just keep it as it is. All of you are making a fool out of yourself, except those who's defending the current rules.

Lock please, before another big conversation starts.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Hawks on May 05, 2010, 02:47:50 pm
Hopefully this reminder will be heeded by all!
U SHULD READ IT FG
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Aksel on May 05, 2010, 02:48:33 pm
U SHULD READ IT FG

Just stop.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 05, 2010, 02:59:15 pm
A hitman is not chasing a wanted suspect. Do not try to twist rules to your advantage, people got banned for that.

.Make up rules as we go along ?

The only people who wish to make up rules as they go along are our beloved players....

What is the correlation between me talking about hitmans and bending the rules for myself...?
You don't know for sure that the hitman's target isn't a suspect, they may well be.


Quote
If they do not give up? you can use any kind of tactic to stop the car with criminals... I hardly see any other way to stop a car, being chase it on bike and being alone...
You see, Aragorn's post only explicitly mentions that a cop is allowed to chase a suspect in a car on a bike.

For
Quote
'Can use any kind of tactic to stop the car with criminals'

to be linked to it being acceptable for cops to drive-by as driver when on a bike, I think if you use this phrase as loosely as you have done, it might as well mean that you can do anything to stop the suspect, and this may include freezing him if you are an admin, hacking the suspect's account, speed,weapon and teleport hacking as evidently, the no drive-by as driver rule is a rule just like no hacking is a rule.


I'll repeat my question incase you did not read it. Why did you, any other manager or member of HQ not tell the admins on the server to stop admin punishing cops who drive-byed suspects on a bike when they did it whilst you were in-game or when you were checking the logs?


Check my quote of aragorn in 2007. Perhaps that was before your time here. :D
In the United Kingdom, March comes before October :cowb:.



I'm not debating the rule with you to get the rule on my advantage, I am simply trying to clarify the reasoning behind this.
If there is a rule, then the administration should be informing the players of it. There should have been greater communication between the people making the rules and those who have to follow and enforce them. If the players and admins didn't know about the rule, then in my opinion it's your obligation to ensure that they are lead to the existence of the rule. I think that this is definitely something that the whole community, including the developers must learn from.


Let's just keep it as it is. All of you are making a fool out of yourself, except those who's defending the current rules.

Lock please, before another big conversation starts.
Read the paragraph above your quote in my post and if you want to come here telling people that they appear to be stupid then for your information it's 'who are' not 'who's'. There is nothing wrong with 'big conversation', I am against flaming but there is nothing wrong with debate in my eyes as it clears up any misunderstandings that anyone has if done properly. If you have a problem with that, you're not obliged to post.


Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 03:39:06 pm
What is the correlation between me talking about hitmans and bending the rules for myself...?
You don't know for sure that the hitman's target isn't a suspect, they may well be.
From the moment you became aware of the rule, you start making demands it should be given free. That is a classic example of trying to twist the rules in ones favour.

You see, Aragorn's post only explicitly mentions that a cop is allowed to chase a suspect in a car on a bike.

For 
to be linked to it being acceptable for cops to drive-by as driver when on a bike, I think if you use this phrase as loosely as you have done, it might as well mean that you can do anything to stop the suspect, and this may include freezing him if you are an admin, hacking the suspect's account, speed,weapon and teleport hacking as evidently, the no drive-by as driver rule is a rule just like no hacking is a rule.
Again an example of not being able to read comprehensive. Instead of just reading the answer, read the question and you will see it is exactly answering the driveby.



I'll repeat my question incase you did not read it. Why did you, any other manager or member of HQ not tell the admins on the server to stop admin punishing cops who drive-byed suspects on a bike when they did it whilst you were in-game or when you were checking the logs?


In the United Kingdom, March comes before October :cowb:.
Why did not any admin or moderator ever repeated this question until now ?
We expect our admins to know the rules, and not to create their own.



I'm not debating the rule with you to get the rule on my advantage, I am simply trying to clarify the reasoning behind this.
That is why you are constantly pointing out that criminals should have equal right to an exception ?


If there is a rule, then the administration should be informing the players of it. There should have been greater communication between the people making the rules and those who have to follow and enforce them. If the players and admins didn't know about the rule, then in my opinion it's your obligation to ensure that they are lead to the existence of the rule. I think that this is definitely something that the whole community, including the developers must learn from.
We can not be responsible for the ignorance of players.
We have had running topics since 2007 where players can ask clarification of situations should they have any doubt about rules. There are similar topics in the administration.

Like in real life. You are supposed to know the law of a country, and ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 05, 2010, 04:53:01 pm
We expect our admins to know the rules, and not to create their own.

Would help if you actually gave the admins the rules then.
Admins each have their own policies, since there are no official ones for many issues.
Since this driveby rule was never stated in the past, admins have been punishing for it. For years. Surely this should have been stopped if "the rule has always existed".

Like in real life. You are supposed to know the law of a country, and ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

If the law in real life was enforced like the rules on the server, then you'd only find out you were breaking the law when you got arrested for breaking it. This is flawed.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: SargentJosh on May 05, 2010, 04:56:36 pm

You guys are drving ArgonathRPG towards a crash with the wall. Stop complaining now whilst you still have the joys of playing on this server. The community was built on and for friendships. Not who is 1337 or who presses the biggest issue.

The rules are how they are and are not up to you. Deal with it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 05:02:57 pm
If the law in real life was enforced like the rules on the server, then you'd only find out you were breaking the law when you got arrested for breaking it. This is flawed.
Not flawed at all. Most new players learn the rules only by breaking them. Else the unban request topics wold be much less.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Romeo on May 05, 2010, 05:05:59 pm
Yesterday I asked two admins if cops were allowed to DB as a driver on motorbikes.

One said Yes.
One said No.

Obviously even our beloved admins don't know what the fuck is going on.
How can you say that's not flawed?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 05:12:20 pm
Yesterday I asked two admins if cops were allowed to DB as a driver on motorbikes.

One said Yes.
One said No.

Obviously even our beloved admins don't know what the f**k is going on.
How can you say that's not flawed?
It is. But if all admins would follow our policies the complaint mail would be filled up daily.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Romeo on May 05, 2010, 05:28:23 pm
It is. But if all admins would follow our policies the complaint mail would be filled up daily.

So you'd rather everyone was confused, than have your mail spammed with valid reports?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 05:30:35 pm
So you'd rather everyone was confused, than have your mail spammed with valid reports?
The reports would not be valid, as most would be made by players who think they know better as admins.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Romeo on May 05, 2010, 05:41:30 pm
Well some of them obviously do, as alot of players seem to know the rules better than the admins do. [[ not saying everyone, but alot do. ]]
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 05:43:46 pm
Well some of them obviously do, as alot of players seem to know the rules better than the admins do. something werid not saying everyone, but alot do. something weird
something weird ??
Seems you use forbidden things on forum.
As for some knowing the rules better as admins, I have not seen their applications. Or they were judged as not fit to be admin.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Romeo on May 05, 2010, 05:45:48 pm
btw, you spelled weird wrong. "Werid".  ;)
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 05:51:19 pm
btw, you spelled weird wrong. "Werid".  ;)
That is to make a difference between opening and closing  :razz:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 05, 2010, 06:05:46 pm
Not flawed at all. Most new players learn the rules only by breaking them. Else the unban request topics wold be much less.

Surely it would be better if there was a list of rules that was a little more comprehensive than the basics we have now? I understand that a bloated list of rules can be overwhelming, but I always thought it odd that the only time a person learns a rule is when they (or another) gets punished for breaking it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 06:07:10 pm
Surely it would be better if there was a list of rules that was a little more comprehensive than the basics we have now? I understand that a bloated list of rules can be overwhelming, but I always thought it odd that the only time a person learns a rule is when they (or another) gets punished for breaking it.
You want a tl;dr version ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Maxy on May 05, 2010, 08:42:33 pm
You want a tl;dr version ?


Yes, because if there is an actual long list of rules, then it is the players own fault for not reading it. If every rule WAS put into one post, then things like what happened with the motorbike incident wouldn't happen. I mean, I'm not saying that it isn't their own fault now, but as a person who has been here since March of 2007, I can say that I could never remember a time where it was mainstream, being enforced by admins, that you COULD drive by as a biker. Maybe myself and the other people who posted here missed something, but it isn't our fault. You must realize that as long as there isn't a long list of every rule, we WILL be surprised when seemingly unknown rules are suddenly brought back to light.

Check my quote of aragorn in 2007. Perhaps that was before your time here. :D

Nah man, my three year Argo anniversary was in March  :wow:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 09:29:24 pm
Maxy I understand your point. However there is a counterpoint that is very important.
When we put a long list of rules, players are going to look to every one of them in order to find how they can abuse it.
This is one of the main reasons why we have not yet brought out something as a constitution, because everything written in there has to be in such way that it does not influence the server rules, or can be interpreted as such.

By making the list of rules as short as possible, not only do we keep the maximal freedom possible but also we do not create any contradictions or pssible misuse of the rules by misstating them.

You only have to look at simple words as abuse and forced roleplay to know that they get taken out of context and used for any situation a player thinks he can get an advantage from the rule.

Violet has once made a great effort to give not a set of rules but a clarification of them based on common questions and situations. This is what we intend to check for updates and then put for those who wish to learn more about interpretation.
This is also why we created thee 'ask developers' topic, though 36 pages may be long to read.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 05, 2010, 09:41:10 pm
From the moment you became aware of the rule, you start making demands it should be given free. That is a classic example of trying to twist the rules in ones favour.
I made no any demands that the rule should be changed. The rule won't even affect me in anyway until I am back ingame, which is in a couple of months. I made a massive list of rules and you did not mention the rule exception at the time.

Again an example of not being able to read comprehensive. Instead of just reading the answer, read the question and you will see it is exactly answering the driveby.
No, I have the habit of reading everything related to what I wish to post in the topic before posting. As for the question, it's pretty obvious that 'anything' is rather ambiguous and does not neccessarily mean that there are not other rule exemptions for a lone cop on a bike other than the driveby as driver rule.

Why did not any admin or moderator ever repeated this question until now ?
Because nothing was done when they did repeat the question by punishing the 'rulebreak' of cops drive-bying a suspect on a bike when either you were online or when the logs were being routinely checked.

We expect our admins to know the rules, and not to create their own.
Yes I think the community has moved on from the times of Hayden on the whole. Admins didn't know about this exception, infact a manager did not know that this rule existed until a few days ago when he says it was announced.

That is why you are constantly pointing out that criminals should have equal right to an exception ?
Just because I am dissapointed that there was no any communication from the developers with the admins or players in this instance does not mean I am opposed to every single exception. For example, I'm not opposed to the exception that cops are allowed to suspect people and criminals do not.

We can not be responsible for the ignorance of players. We have had running topics since 2007 where players can ask clarification of situations should they have any doubt about rules. There are similar topics in the administration.
Like in real life. You are supposed to know the law of a country, and ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.
This paragraph is like cutting the branch of the tree you are sitting on because you mentioned real life. In real life you can see the laws in one place such as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom)

In real life, most countries have constitutions and when something comes up like in the US, you have the Supreme Court to decide whether something is constitutional or not and to make any ammendments if the Supreme Court feels like there should be.

EDIT:
This is also why we created thee 'ask developers' topic, though 36 pages may be long to read.
The 'ask developers' rule does not have every rule on it. I can't find where it says that invitations to members of official clans is not allowed on that topic, or any topic on the forums. Hardly anyone knows about that rule either and I only found out until I broke this rule that I didn't know existed which the vast majority of people do not know even today. What do you have to say about this?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 05, 2010, 09:43:55 pm
UK doesn't have  constitution.  :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Violet on May 05, 2010, 09:46:15 pm
UK doesn't have an constitutions.  :D
The UK constitution is a de facto one at the moment which is why I used the US as the example for the constitution.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 05, 2010, 09:52:03 pm
The UK constitution is a de facto one at the moment which is why I used the US as the example for the constitution.
I know, and what I am trying to do is stop you from wasting time here, cause its obvious what happen here, from page one, and why was this rule all of a sudden brought up from no where, but I'll keep it for myself, cause otherwise I would get rocks and stones on me, by a lot of people.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 05, 2010, 10:27:18 pm
I know, and what I am trying to do is stop you from wasting time here, cause its obvious what happen here, from page one, and why was this rule all of a sudden brought up from no where, but I'll keep it for myself, cause otherwise I would get rocks and stones on me, by a lot of people.
I think I know what you're thinking ;)

Let me rephrase my previous comment:

Basically, you have made an exception to this rule (no drive-by as driver) to allow ONE GROUP of people to pretty much HP HACK, even if it's temporary!?

If admins are still punishing for drive-by as driver for cops, it's likely not their fault. It may be whoever-invented-this-exception's fault for not informing them. I can't, as a parent, expect my baby-sitter to know that I don't let my baby, who can walk, in the kitchen without telling them.

If the HPV bikes suck so much that you had to make this exception, why include them in the first place?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 10:49:56 pm
I made no any demands that the rule should be changed. The rule won't even affect me in anyway until I am back ingame, which is in a couple of months.
You argued an exception hould be available for others, which is requesting a change of the rule.

I made a massive list of rules and you did not mention the rule exception at the time.
Correct. If it is not a problem no need to mention it.
No, I have the habit of reading everything related to what I wish to post in the topic before posting. As for the question, it's pretty obvious that 'anything' is rather ambiguous and does not neccessarily mean that there are not other rule exemptions for a lone cop on a bike other than the driveby as driver rule.
I guess you did not read the question correct, as it lacked in English grammar.
The question was asked by a criminal (Raslman) who got chased and shot at by two cops on bikes (Lionz and Omri). He asked if this was allowed, and you saw the answer of Aragorn.
As you are from the UK I do not blame you for finding it har to read broken English. My personal experience helps me in this.


Because nothing was done when they did repeat the question by punishing the 'rulebreak' of cops drive-bying a suspect on a bike when either you were online or when the logs were being routinely checked.
Yes I think the community has moved on from the times of Hayden on the whole. Admins didn't know about this exception, infact a manager did not know that this rule existed until a few days ago when he says it was announced.
That is possible as the rule was basicly forgotten and brought up only because a developer made use of it. It is already considered to strike the exception, however that will be done after testing with a bike expert.

Just because I am dissapointed that there was no any communication from the developers with the admins or players in this instance does not mean I am opposed to every single exception. For example, I'm not opposed to the exception that cops are allowed to suspect people and criminals do not.
I at times feel the same disappointment when a script exploit is not reported until found in logs, or when players seem to care more about their asse(t)s than about having fun.
This paragraph is like cutting the branch of the tree you are sitting on because you mentioned real life. In real life you can see the laws in one place such as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom)

In real life, most countries have constitutions and when something comes up like in the US, you have the Supreme Court to decide whether something is constitutional or not and to make any ammendments if the Supreme Court feels like there should be.
A constitution is like out set of rules. From this a general practice is derived and written down in laws, governmental decrees and  jurisprudence. Even judges and lawyers often have no direct knowledge regarding every single subject, but if needed have to search trhough a number of sources to find information. In some cases a lawyer and also a judge decides to create his own interpretation to have it checked against the laws, especially if something old comes up. The Supreme Court will then test the interpretation against the constitution and general practice.

In this case an old member of the Supreme Court used a rule that was in effect and written about in 2007. You can argue that general practice has made this obsolete as its not mentioned in the Rules. However it can not be denied that it has been written down in previous questions that the exception does exist, and was never taken out.

EDIT: The 'ask developers' rule does not have every rule on it. I can't find where it says that invitations to members of official clans is not allowed on that topic, or any topic on the forums. Hardly anyone knows about that rule either and I only found out until I broke this rule that I didn't know existed which the vast majority of people do not know even today. What do you have to say about this?
I have no idea of what rule you speak.
The only thing I can think of is that we have made is an agreement between official clans not to invite each others members. This was an agreement between the leaders of the official clans, and has no connection to server rules.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 10:51:19 pm
II can't, as a parent, expect my baby-sitter to know that I don't let my baby, who can walk, in the kitchen without telling them.
However I would not allow a babysitter who lets a kid walk in to the kitchen alone to stay on the job.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Leon. on May 05, 2010, 10:58:02 pm
However I would not allow a babysitter who lets a kid walk in to the kitchen alone to stay on the job.
It'd be my(your) own fault for not letting the babysitter know of such terms. Some things DON'T need to be told, like "DONT LET THE KID TOUCH THE GUN." But things like "NO GLASS CUPS UPSTAIRS" DO need to be told.
My other question stands unanswered.
Quote
Basically, you have made an exception to this rule (no drive-by as driver) to allow ONE GROUP of people to pretty much HP HACK, even if it's temporary!?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 05, 2010, 11:25:36 pm
It'd be my(your) own fault for not letting the babysitter know of such terms. Some things DON'T need to be told, like "DONT LET THE KID TOUCH THE GUN." But things like "NO GLASS CUPS UPSTAIRS" DO need to be told.
My other question stands unanswered.
The thing is that while some things need to be told, others are pretty obvious.
No driveby as driver is a simple rule that can be explained to all. The exception for cops on a HPV is something that needs to be told, and as long as not told does not harm. There for making a big fuss about it has just brought it to attention and make it look like a new rule.

Not allowing a child alone in the kitchen is pretty obvious. That the child can climb on the kitchen chair to see the neghbours dog needs to be told. But as long as the child does not attempt and cries about it, the babysitter will be content with the childs just walking in the kitchen under supervision.

As for your question. The reason for the exception was answered in 2007. No other way to stop a car.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 05, 2010, 11:37:22 pm
Couldn't we have like Universal Rules, same applies for firemen, medics, criminals, cops..etc..
Like: "Cops are allowed to return to RP but criminals aren't" - This kinda things constantly brings up useless arguements about cops having more advantages...etc.
My idea is to make rules applying for all. If a cop can't driveby, a criminal shouldn't be allowed too, looks fair and would avoid lot of moaning. Well that would help, in my opinion

Post Merge: May 05, 2010, 11:51:00 pm
Why do we need to actually separate group by group, sorry but I don't understand.
For example, let's figure out a new rule:
''Criminal groups are allowed to chase cops, but GroupXX isn't allowed" [[ thought about the most stupid example, but I think you get it :)]]


Regards, yo!
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 05, 2010, 11:51:10 pm
Waiting for the retarded one? :D

Won't say retarded just, funny one. :D

Couldn't we have like Universal Rules, same applies for firemen, medics, criminals, cops..etc..
Like: "Cops are allowed to return to RP but criminals aren't" - This kinda things constantly brings up useless arguements about cops having more advantages...etc.
My idea is to make rules applying for all. If a cop can't driveby, a criminal shouldn't be allowed too, looks fair and would avoid lot of moaning. Well that would help, in my opinion

I support this. Criminals bring much more RP than cops, and still they keep having more advantages than us.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 12:07:56 am
I support this. Criminals bring much more RP than cops, and still they keep having more advantages than us.
Not what I meant, my idea is to stop "Criminals VS Cops" thing, by making rules which applies for both.
No more "Cops are allowed to....... but criminals aren't." < - This bring nothing but problems, in my opnion.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 06, 2010, 12:42:46 am
The only thing I can think of is that we have made is an agreement between official clans not to invite each others members. This was an agreement between the leaders of the official clans, and has no connection to server rules.

Then why was Corleone chastised when Mario joined?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: dtlove on May 06, 2010, 12:52:58 am
Can I ask, Is the Military Base on the map known as Area 69 owned by anyone? I was told by another fellow ATC member not to use it..
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 06, 2010, 12:56:16 am
It's state.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: rJCaiG on May 06, 2010, 08:01:19 am
Criminals bring much more RP than cops
hi i'm a criminal. i shoot people and shit pew pew my rp shits all over the cops pullover rps and other rps, pew pew sorry had to shoot someone, anyway criminals rp pwns because we go pew pew to people so gtfo cops pew pew my rp shits all over yours pewwww ^_^_^_^
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Jubin on May 06, 2010, 09:58:39 am
hi i'm a criminal. i shoot people and shit pew pew my rp shits all over the cops pullover rps and other rps, pew pew sorry had to shoot someone, anyway criminals rp pwns because we go pew pew to people so gtfo cops pew pew my rp shits all over yours pewwww ^_^_^_^
Hi i'm officer. I am the law. I aim at you with my deagle for now apparent reason. come ere bad guy let me slap your ass. oh you resist? /su insulting officer. pew pew pew. I shoot people, am drunk at public and piss on citizens, we go annoy citizens to /su them, my rp shits all over yours pewwwww ^_^_^_^

Come on guys, both sides are what they are.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: PulisPatola on May 06, 2010, 10:03:19 am
Is this allowed?
*Criminal entered a car*
*police man gets ontop of car*
*police man beats the car up using the nitestick while the driver is driving*
*Car explodes*
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 06, 2010, 11:19:47 am
Then why was Corleone chastised when Mario joined?
No idea, did not see or hear anything about it.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: NitrOx on May 06, 2010, 11:23:46 am
Is this allowed?
*Criminal entered a car*
*police man gets ontop of car*
*police man beats the car up using the nitestick while the driver is driving*
*Car explodes*

No.

Why?

It's using a weapon on top of a car = Carsurfing + Using Weapon = DM.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 06, 2010, 11:25:27 am
Couldn't we have like Universal Rules, same applies for firemen, medics, criminals, cops..etc..

Of course. Criminals will have to ask civilians to stop, if not they have to use a /cr command that will turn their name purple. Once the name is purple criminals will have to ask 'GIVE MONEY OR WE USE FORCE' at least three times, the  civilian can do /afraid.
If the criminal kills the civilian while afraid, he loses money. He must take the criminal to the HQ of the group and then can type the command /shake. For this he will get $200. If he kills a purple name that did not do /afraid he gets $100, but if he kills someone that is not purple he will get $1000 fine.

Happy ?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 06, 2010, 11:26:15 am
No.

Why?

It's using a weapon on top of a car = Carsurfing + Using Weapon = DM.
This also goes for criminals with Dildos.  :D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: NitrOx on May 06, 2010, 11:27:37 am
Of course. Criminals will have to ask civilians to stop, if not they have to use a /cr command that will turn their name purple. Once the name is purple criminals will have to ask 'GIVE MONEY OR WE USE FORCE' at least three times, the  civilian can do /afraid.
If the criminal kills the civilian while afraid, he loses money. He must take the criminal to the HQ of the group and then can type the command /shake. For this he will get $200. If he kills a purple name that did not do /afraid he gets $100, but if he kills someone that is not purple he will get $1000 fine.

Happy ?

Haha.

A rewrite of the rules, however would not be a bad idea.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 06, 2010, 05:20:33 pm
Of course. Criminals will have to ask civilians to stop, if not they have to use a /cr command that will turn their name purple. Once the name is purple criminals will have to ask 'GIVE MONEY OR WE USE FORCE' at least three times, the  civilian can do /afraid.
If the criminal kills the civilian while afraid, he loses money. He must take the criminal to the HQ of the group and then can type the command /shake. For this he will get $200. If he kills a purple name that did not do /afraid he gets $100, but if he kills someone that is not purple he will get $1000 fine.

Happy ?

Would it be irritating if I said "that sounds quite good, actually"?  :lol:

Man if I'd known it was gonna be such a struggle I would have left Solonik and made the "Araatus Enforcer Group" and been done with it all. In many ways I prefer being a cop, to be honest...
How ironic :lol:.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Petar on May 06, 2010, 06:01:33 pm
hi i'm a criminal. i shoot people and shit pew pew my rp shits all over the cops pullover rps and other rps, pew pew sorry had to shoot someone, anyway criminals rp pwns because we go pew pew to people so gtfo cops pew pew my rp shits all over yours pewwww ^_^_^_^

hi i'm cop. i look @ radar and hunt orange dots and kILL OFC. ! when oragne dot get away i use /area and find him ! if no orange dots i see random ppl and /su speeding/evading. than i hunt @ kill. i ERN $100 ! EACH TIME YO ! if mr oragne dot kill me i go to lskpd and /duty  and go PEW PEW him !!! If I get killed 5 times i do /p OMFG ORAGNE DOT KILL ME , NO RP !
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Cofiliano on May 06, 2010, 06:05:13 pm
Lol, Giac pwned by little Petar.:D
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 06:13:15 pm
Of course. Criminals will have to ask civilians to stop, if not they have to use a /cr command that will turn their name purple. Once the name is purple criminals will have to ask 'GIVE MONEY OR WE USE FORCE' at least three times, the  civilian can do /afraid.
If the criminal kills the civilian while afraid, he loses money. He must take the criminal to the HQ of the group and then can type the command /shake. For this he will get $200. If he kills a purple name that did not do /afraid he gets $100, but if he kills someone that is not purple he will get $1000 fine.

Happy ?
Surprisingly, it sounded quite good :P
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: JayL on May 06, 2010, 06:19:28 pm
Who ''pwnt'' anyone here?

If you have trigger happy criminals, you have trigger happy cops. If you have violent criminals, you have violent cops.

Cops can't do /me, /l or such while getting shot at by 10 combat shotguns.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 06:22:01 pm
Cops can't do /me, /l or such while getting shot at by 10 combat shotguns.
And you think criminals can?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: JayL on May 06, 2010, 06:23:07 pm
If the criminals are doing something else than shooting (surrendering), they have a chance cops will do something creative as well.

Also, note that most of the freecops are unexperienced people, generally coming from DM servers. Freecops are only bound by the server rules. I have noticed that great majority of newcomers ask straight away "how do I be cop" "how do I get wanted" when they meet a 'teacher'. It's GTA, isn't it? They aren't really wrong. Same goes for criminal groups, even though they're more restrictive. Whereas freecops only need to follow server rules, criminal groups make their own restrict rules, should that be OOC/IC, realistic roleplay behaviour, bla bla bla.

As for ARPD, I agree some people may not be behaving properly. It is an obvious task from its leadership to make sure the officers should maintain an appropriate conduct, or they're going to lose their badge.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 06:30:17 pm
If the criminals are doing something else than shooting (surrendering), they have a chance cops will do something creative as well.
A cop surrounded by ten criminals holding ten combat shotguns, why don't they 'surrender' to criminals too?
That would be creative, but unfortunately, in this time I'm playing in this community I never saw such thing, cops mostly shoot back, no matter how many you are, I mean, what do they lose?
Criminals loses $1000 for beeing killed by a cop, the cop doesn't lose nothing, there for they just try kill as many as possible, and they're also allowed to return to RP...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Mafs on May 06, 2010, 06:33:08 pm
A cop surrounded by ten criminals holding ten combat shotguns, why don't they 'surrender' to criminals too?
That would be creative, but unfortunately, in this time I'm playing in this community I never saw such thing, cops mostly shoot back, no matter how many you are, I mean, what do they lose?
Criminals loses $1000 for beeing killed by a cop, the cop doesn't lose nothing, there for they just try kill as many as possible, and they're also allowed to return to RP...
Because, if a large group of criminal spot a guy with a blue name and uniform, it's goes 'Pew pew' Have seen so myself after trying to flee from a large group of criminals and call back-up. On which I was called.

As said above, violent criminals = violent cops
good criminals = good cops  :cop:

And I've seen both sides..
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 06:44:30 pm
Because, if a large group of criminal spot a guy with a blue name and uniform, it's goes 'Pew pew' Have seen so myself after trying to flee from a large group of criminals and call back-up. On which I was called.

As said above, violent criminals = violent cops
good criminals = good cops  :cop:

And I've seen both sides..
Don't think I'm against cops or something :)
The way I see it, cops should be allowed to return to RP only after +/- 15minutes after beeing killed.
Why? Because they do not lose anything for beeing killed, there for, why even bother to RP, they come pew pew pew pew straight way...
Criminals losing $1000 and they're prohibited to return to the roleplay, they think twice before shooting, and most of the cases, they surrender but If they didn't lose anything, why would them surrender?
Some of the cops don't even try to RP with criminals since they're not going to lose anything...
I think, if some of those benefits were taken away from cops, it would increase the RP significantly.

Regards.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Mafs on May 06, 2010, 06:49:21 pm
Don't think I'm against cops or something :)
The way I see it, cops should be allowed to return to RP only after +/- 15minutes after beeing killed.
Why? Because they do not lose anything for beeing killed, there for, why even bother to RP, they come pew pew pew pew straight way...
Criminals losing $1000 and they're prohibited to return to the roleplay, they think twice before shooting, and most of the cases, they surrender but If they didn't lose anything, why would them surrender?
Some of the cops don't even try to RP with criminals since they're not going to lose anything...
I think, if some of those benefits were taken away from cops, it would increase the RP significantly.

Regards.
There is no real efficient way to see who returned or not, due to all reckless freecops.
Criminals thinking twice? I have yet to see that, actually.. and to admit, I didn't give a shit whilst I was playing as a criminal.

Some of the cops.. I think you just described most free cops there, and some of the hasty officers, not saying any name, eh Tommy Lings? :)
About benefits, you're talking about the no-return rule and make them lose money if killed, or?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 07:09:27 pm
Criminals thinking twice? I have yet to see that, actually.. and to admit, I didn't give a shit whilst I was playing as a criminal.
Maybe, if instead of losing only $1000, we lose $2500... Then we would have a very lawful Argonath :P

About benefits, you're talking about the no-return rule and make them lose money if killed, or?
Not sure, but mostly about returning to RP rule, but you have a point, it's hard to identify returners.
Or maybe, if a cop die, he respawns in the nearest police department..
Would avoid situations which I've already experienced:
- SWAT truck outside the bank
- Cops do /spawnreset outside.
- They /weaponequip everyone.
I think you can figure out how that was used, /godmode.

Regards.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: JayL on May 06, 2010, 07:13:59 pm
- They /weaponequip everyone.

????????

You want everyone to storm the place without armour and heavy weaponry?
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 07:15:22 pm
????????

You want everyone to storm the place without armour and heavy weaponry?
No, I want them to spawn back to a police department, not dieing and respawning outside, getting armored again...etc
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 06, 2010, 07:24:55 pm
Logic is flawed. As soon as a criminal kills a cop it means all cops can fire without having to ask surrender. Don't want to get shot ? Do not kill.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Romeo on May 06, 2010, 07:25:57 pm
They all fire anyway, ARPD laws are rarely followed on a single criminal.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: EminemRulez on May 06, 2010, 07:42:03 pm
. As soon as a criminal kills a cop it means all cops can fire without having to ask surrender.
/crime [ID-CRIMINAL]
Crime of Mr.Criminal: Killing PoliceOfficer1
Cop come to the criminal, who is stopped, and kill him.
I play this for fun by RPing, and to be honest, that logic is totally ruining it.
There are many great RPers playing Cop roles, such as Mafs, JimmyBowling, JayL, and many others.
But in constrast, there are others who plays for stats, who obey those rules strictly, do not need to ask him to surrender? Then just kill him, doesn't matter, I'm obeying the rule and you're giving them to much freedom, IMO.
But it's something you wouldn't possibly understand if you never experienced theese kind of situations.
As said before, I love to RP, but...
If a cop doesn't need to ask for surrending, there for he doesn't bother to RP.
If he dies, he comes back for a revenge trying to kill you (cops are allowed to revenge kill(return to RP)) - once again, no RP.

 :neutral:

Regards.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Maxy on May 06, 2010, 07:46:09 pm
hi i'm a criminal. i shoot people and shit pew pew my rp shits all over the cops pullover rps and other rps, pew pew sorry had to shoot someone, anyway criminals rp pwns because we go pew pew to people so gtfo cops pew pew my rp shits all over yours pewwww ^_^_^_^

Cop pull over RP's are generally half assed. If they are good, I roleplay them. Also, our pew pew is generally the result of a criminal Rp. Also Inter-Mafia RP is the best RP on the server, no exceptions. Unfortunately some of the most amazing RP will never be experience by many of you.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Dave on May 06, 2010, 08:01:46 pm
Also Inter-Mafia RP is the best RP on the server, no exceptions.

In your eyes, not others.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 06, 2010, 08:05:56 pm
/crime [ID-CRIMINAL]
Crime of Mr.Criminal: Killing PoliceOfficer1
Cop come to the criminal, who is stopped, and kill him.
I play this for fun by RPing, and to be honest, that logic is totally ruining it.
There are many great RPers playing Cop roles, such as Mafs, JimmyBowling, JayL, and many others.
But in constrast, there are others who plays for stats, who obey those rules strictly, do not need to ask him to surrender? Then just kill him, doesn't matter, I'm obeying the rule and you're giving them to much freedom, IMO.
But it's something you wouldn't possibly understand if you never experienced theese kind of situations.
As said before, I love to RP, but...
If a cop doesn't need to ask for surrending, there for he doesn't bother to RP.
If he dies, he comes back for a revenge trying to kill you (cops are allowed to revenge kill(return to RPsomething weird - once again, no RP.

 :neutral:

Regards.
If you are shooting with a gun, a cop does not have to ask to surrnder. If you are running, a cop does not have to ask to surrender. If you have already resisted arrest, a cop does not have to ask to surrender.
The  rules you wish are purely to give the criminal an unfair advantage. If SAPD wishes to restain themselves and follow, they are welcome. If criminals wish to RP, they are invited to do so instead of trying to find rules that make it easier for them to escape.

A cop does need to ask for surrender if he meets a criminal that is not running, shooting and has not just killed of 10 other cops. Als upon suspecting a non-violent criminal he as to ask. A criminal has three choices, two of which can lead to being shot on sight. Run, fight or RP by complying.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 06, 2010, 08:06:48 pm
Cop pull over RP's are generally half assed. If they are good, I roleplay them. Also, our pew pew is generally the result of a criminal Rp. Also Inter-Mafia RP is the best RP on the server, no exceptions. Unfortunately some of the most amazing RP will never be experience by many of you.
Gang wars are pure RP.  :lol:
Just kidding, I know there are some good scenarios.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: rJCaiG on May 07, 2010, 08:19:03 am
Cop pull over RP's are generally half assed. If they are good, I roleplay them. Also, our pew pew is generally the result of a criminal Rp. Also Inter-Mafia RP is the best RP on the server, no exceptions. Unfortunately some of the most amazing RP will never be experience by many of you.
I'm not saying that any of this is untrue. I know that a lot of cops (And i've experienced this myself) would prefer to pullover, skip any RP and just give a ticket, which often will be for more then they'd get for killing you. Pew pew was just an over exaggeration, you know it :P I was trying to poke fun at a post that was a few posts up from that one. Criminal groups RPing with other criminal groups is great - just last night I responded to a situation at Grove, where two groups of criminals appeared to be close to having a gang war..I negotiated for both the sides with each other and avoided a major situation where many would die...I especially like it that everyone treated me not just as some cop, but authority to them, and heeded to my words and threats. This is how it should be. If you don't have an orange name, you respect the cops, just like in real life. I know saying that is contradicting other statements I've made in saying that Argonath is not ZOMGRL server, but I think that's just a general thing that should be quite an obvious thing.
I'm not trying to lay blame and say zomg criminals never respect and just pew pew, i'm trying to say that maybe some respect needs to be given for the authority that enforces the laws.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: JDC on May 07, 2010, 11:11:33 am
More than half of shootouts are attempts to DM cops, opposed to the other shootouts that are actually a result of RP. It saddens me.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 07, 2010, 06:30:12 pm
More than half of shootouts are attempts to DM cops, opposed to the other shootouts that are actually a result of RP. It saddens me.

More than half of shootouts are attempts by cops to "DM" criminals, not the other way around.
Criminals do not choose for cops to come in their masses to be slaughtered. I scoff at the very idea that it is somehow our fault that they just keep coming back.

The cops want the shootout, they are the ones who could easily end it by retreating (as SAPD sometimes does).
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 07, 2010, 07:06:08 pm
More than half of shootouts are attempts by cops to "DM" criminals, not the other way around.
Criminals do not choose for cops to come in their masses to be slaughtered. I scoff at the very idea that it is somehow our fault that they just keep coming back.

The cops want the shootout, they are the ones who could easily end it by retreating (as SAPD sometimes does).
You are incorrect. If a cop DM's criminals he can be expected to be copbanned.
If cops are having a shootout with criminals it is because they are suspected.
Do not want to be shot at ? Go to jail as soon as your name gets orange.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Nexxt on May 07, 2010, 07:16:56 pm
I am really disappointed, that it's even needed to make this topic.
To REFRESH the rules, the ones you agreed with when you joined Argonath...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Biesmen on May 07, 2010, 07:19:30 pm
Suggestion:
Rule: No endless discussing/moaning on public chat (Being DMed, insulted, etc)

This rule is not on the list, and it is obvious, but some people do not know that it's obvious and get punished. Which leads to more discussing etc.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Pandalink on May 07, 2010, 08:31:11 pm
You are incorrect. If a cop DM's criminals he can be expected to be copbanned.
If cops are having a shootout with criminals it is because they are suspected.
Do not want to be shot at ? Go to jail as soon as your name gets orange.

I realise what I said was technically incorrect, I was merely countering an equally ignorant point.
It depends on what you define as "DM". DM as in random killing - then cop/suspect shootouts do not come into it. DM as in a match of fighting, then it is equally as facilitated by the police as the suspects.
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 07, 2010, 08:37:04 pm
Suggestion:
Rule: No endless discussing/moaning on public chat (Being DMed, insulted, etc)

This rule is not on the list, and it is obvious, but some people do not know that it's obvious and get punished. Which leads to more discussing etc.
- NO FLOOD THE CHAT WINDOW;
- NO SPAM (advertisment of other servers and sites, that do not belong to Argonath RPG server is NOT allowed);
- NO FLAME/INSULT players. If you came to play on our server - respect it and our players;

Three rules that cover it already...
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Biesmen on May 07, 2010, 09:56:20 pm
You're right, I'm sure some people do not know that.
Or they just ignore it..
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: Gandalf on May 07, 2010, 10:04:12 pm
You're right, I'm sure some people do not know that.
Or they just ignore it..
After reading here they will tell it is a new one.  :lol:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: RafaDK on May 08, 2010, 12:54:23 am
Eh, lets just forget this and hope that cops have a few consideration for criminals. D:
Title: Re: SAMP Rules
Post by: JDC on May 08, 2010, 08:06:44 am
Eh, lets just forget this and hope that cops have a few consideration for criminals. D:

Don't tell me that evil Cops are on the rise D:
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