Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: JDC on March 03, 2018, 11:45:38 pm
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As many of you know by now, I came back to Argo SA:MP at the end of February. I was happy to see old and new friends, but also sad to see the state of the economy and players' growing obsession with money.
One of the first things I noticed was shitloads of properties owned by a few players and many cars held in /groups that are barely around. I talked to some fellow veterans, both IG and out-of-game, and they agreed with my findings, in addition to all telling me that players' money obsession has gotten even worse since I was last here in 2016. Some of them were even literally told by other players that the more money you have on Argo SA:MP, the more respectable you are — which I find to be misguided and wrong.
I will point out a few other examples, too:
Example #1: A few players have been buying out entire apartment complexes, with most of the units in an apartment complex owned by 1-3 players. I was online when @MrTrane added a new apartment complex in LS, only for a few players to swoop in and buy up most of the units when Trane was barely out the door.
Example #2: 9 out of 13 units in the Low-Cost Housing behind Market Ammu are owned by the same guy. Buying everything only to profit off selling them to poor players is already ridiculous, even more so when it's Low-Cost Housing that only costs around ARD7,000. To my understanding, the point of Low-Cost Housing units is for players who are saving up for a proper house, both poor players and new players.
It's one thing to profit from real estate, it's another to deliberately profit off players you know do not have a lot of money; a plain dick move, IMO. Thankfully, there is now a restriction against future instances of #1 and #2, since the latest update (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116247.msg1931349#msg1931349) against Apartment hoarding implemented by @Chase, and the instruction for players with present monopolies to await further instructions from HQ.
(Added in Edit) From now on you are able to only buy ONE property inside an apartment complex, they are meant to be used for people who are either too poor to purchase a "proper" house or just prefer to have an apartment instead to live near their job or group location for example, they were never meant to be bought massively by one person just to show-off or annoy others.
Example #3: Many cars are held in /groups that are barely present. While groups like Corleone, Gvardia, Sforza, WS, and the like (too many active groups for me to list) deserve their vehicles because of their continuing presence and contributions, some others are barely around (based on a week of regular play and observation during peak hours, hours with lowest playercount, and in between.) If there is no system for this already (correct me if I'm wrong) then IMO, HQ should better regulate group vehicles vis-a-vis activity so we can avoid players running around in frustration from locked cars owned by groups they barely see at all.
Example #4: The purpose of property taxes is making sure that properties are owned by active players. (Not so much government revenue, since there are many ways to raise state funds) But we have a few dickheads (yes, I am using this term) who only login for an hour or less when it's time to pay taxes to avoid losing their (fancy) houses and properties, then log off for the next few months. This kind of hoarding literally comes at the expense of all active players who contribute to the server in many different ways.
All of this hoarding and excess greed is only a symptom of the root cause: players' obsession with money. It poisons the server environment and makes money the single most important aspect of gameplay, rather than fun and quality interaction with others.
Wanting to earn and overcome challenges is a good thing, and challenges — having something to strive for — is what keeps players motivated to moving forward on the server. But sometimes, the outcome is less optimal than what we want, such as the examples I pointed out above. For instance, it's okay to work your way to the top, to want some beautiful houses and fancy cars. But do players who already have plenty really have to be so bent on doing things like buying everything to profit at the expense of poorer players, basically the economic equivalent of telling everyone "my dick is much bigger than yours," if not worse?
Argonath is home for me, as it is for many of you, especially to those who are still here after many years even as your priorities changed from school to work and more. It's not just a game; it's a community. This is why even if our current playercount is lower than what it used to be, we work towards solving this problem and climbing back up. And I don't think we deserve to have it all poisoned by everything being about the money, which should be a support to our interaction and not the center stage.
To preclude any possible misinterpretation, I am not criticizing the developers' work. I have noticed the new (current) HQ's work in continuing progress, and I appreciate their efforts. I am also well aware of the increasing amount of work and detail that went into economic planning for the server over the years, and previously helped test developing scripts as I watched the server's progress with hope through RS3, RS4, and now RS5. But given human unpredictability, I don't think anyone back then (maybe few, at the most) could have forecast that the economy would end up in such an inflated, runaway state despite meticulous planning designed meant precisely to solve previous inflated, runaway economies and prevent future ones.
I am also not saying all / most rich players are like this. We have many players and groups who have been rich over the years, and have become rich for different reasons, but not so that they can exploit other players. Many of them still contribute(d) to quality interaction. Yet the symptoms of excess greed are clear if you go around on the server, and we have to do something about it.
Solving this will take more than a script-side Economic Reform, and no single group can fix this problem — we will all have to do this together.
HQ will have to make script adjustments, player groups will have to change the inter-group dynamics, among others. What these changes are, I do not know (besides further regulation on low-cost properties and stricter activity checks.) I am in the unfortunate position where I can only pose more questions than answers, so the best I can do (re)start the discussion and gather inputs from fellow Argonathians of all groups.
What do you think should be done?
P.S: Please keep the discussion civil, so we don't end up with a locked topic.
P.S: I am aware that I do not have access to most data and precise stats, and can only base my observations on player behaviors and aspects of the server that are clear for everyone to see. If you know something that I don't, I welcome more answers and information.
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I suggest adding a limit to the properties of being able to own
I.e
5 Buisnesses
5 Houses?
Also, yes. This topic is something we needed.
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We need to prioritize role play and having fun instead the robotic mindset of farming the green numeric value seen on the upper right corners of our screens.
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We need to prioritize role play and having fun instead the robotic mindset of farming the green numeric value seen on the upper right corners of our screens.
Will never happen on a freeroamserver
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Just up the prices of the guns deagle to be 50k ak 100k then people will sell their business to buy a gun and there will have plenty of houses and businesses unowned :jackson: :jackson: :bananav:
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Back at it again with the giant essays gg
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I just about never work for money ;)
RP is what I find fun
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To hell with the broken ARD, the Nomads use Gems for valuation. ARD can be gained by mindlessly keybinding meth, or tdm'ing weed fields. Gems require your in-game time to acquire.
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boo hoo
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We need to prioritize role play and having fun instead the robotic mindset of farming the green numeric value seen on the upper right corners of our screens.
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I liked it back when you could only own one car, one house, one business etc. Meant you have to put a lot of thought into what you actually bought.
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I suggest adding a limit to the properties of being able to own
I.e
5 Buisnesses
5 Houses?
Also, yes. This topic is something we needed.
It's not realistic, and what abt those groups like Gvardia who has contracts? What if someone goes inactive and want to give props to Gvardia and they are all full with props?
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I agree with him. Instead of playing to hsve fun players often end up farming money instead of having real fun.
Instead of grinding money we should focus on fun and quality playtimr
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I agree with him. Instead of playing to hsve fun players often end up farming money instead of having real fun.
Instead of grinding money we should focus on fun and quality playtimr
You agree with everyone, stop asslicking and make up your own opinion instead.
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What if someone goes inactive and want to give props to Gvardia and they are all full with props?
Should have thought of that before deciding to go inactive then.
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You agree with everyone, stop asslicking and make up your own opinion instead.
Instead of grinding money we should focus on fun and quality playtime
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Should have thought of that before deciding to go inactive then.
Emmet is right, inactive players don't deserve to keep properties for so long when they don't put effort in them.
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I agree with this high bunch of paragraphs written, but also the inactivity rate has risen because some people see less players, they see that it will be boring for them, if they see many players, they'd like to hop in. We need to change that too, Argonath's activity rate is mostly down on a level where 17/18 players are online. If this changes, we would have at least 60 players online each day or maybe I would be dreaming. However, try to build interest in this game and trying joining the game at least once, the others will automatically follow you inside. Because they'd see the high player rate, they'll come and think it's great currently inside the server. If you have any thing to add in my suggestion, please do!
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Example #3: Many cars are held in /groups that are barely present. While groups like Corleone, Gvardia, Sforza, WS, and the like (too many active groups for me to list) deserve their vehicles because of their continuing presence and contributions, some others are barely around (based on a week of regular play and observation during peak hours, hours with lowest playercount, and in between.) If there is no system for this already (correct me if I'm wrong) then IMO, HQ should better regulate group vehicles vis-a-vis activity so we can avoid players running around in frustration from locked cars owned by groups they barely see at all.
True, there are groups used for cars, but that's because the limit is just not enough most of the time. Yeah, you don't use ALL the cars at the SAME time, but all the cars are used. This all happens because closed/SOLD(hello isn't this not allowed or do I have to look at posts for a couple of hours?) are almost never removed, and new groups have a lot of members and not enough cars because 5 isn't really enough. Yeah, we have some cleaning up, but I can see how it's hard for HQ to determine group activity when groups have outsiders in their group as well. Perhaps if we introduced group tags and then filter activity by that, if we have a panel now anyway.
Players running in locked cars is not a problem, though. I don't see it as one at least.
Example #4: The purpose of property taxes is making sure that properties are owned by active players. (Not so much government revenue, since there are many ways to raise state funds) But we have a few dickheads (yes, I am using this term) who only login for an hour or less when it's time to pay taxes to avoid losing their (fancy) houses and properties, then log off for the next few months. This kind of hoarding literally comes at the expense of all active players who contribute to the server in many different ways.
No, the purpose of property taxes is making sure players are playing to be able to keep their properties, because if they don't play, then they don't make money, then they can't pay tax, and then they lose the property. Really it's better than the old system, but I'll rewrite that same sentence underlining something important:
No, the purpose of property taxes is making sure players are playing to be able to keep their properties, because if they don't play, then they don't make money, then they can't pay tax, and then they lose the property.
And it's not entirely correct either, there are businesses who make more money than their taxes, but doesn't really matter, if you add houses and stuff.
About the dickheads, ughm, yeah, you can call them whatever you want, but you don't know the reason why that happens, or how the server regulations kinda force you into, and then again it's pretty allowed. Also, this was a problem in RS4 too, but then it was in 3 months, not 2. So we're making progress, but this isn't an issue.
All of this hoarding and excess greed is only a symptom of the root cause: players' obsession with money. It poisons the server environment and makes money the single most important aspect of gameplay, rather than fun and quality interaction with others.
No. I would elaborate why not, but things will get worse if someone decides my posts are worthy of their time, so just take my word on this one and admit that the reason this hoarding is happening is not only because of players' obsession with money.
Emmet is right, inactive players don't deserve to keep properties for so long when they don't put effort in them.
They are. How did they buy their property in the first place? They worked, got some money, bought it. They are logging in once a month, fuck even once every two months to pay taxes. Listen, those who actually leave the server usually give all their shit away to a couple of friends, those who are inactive are no less of a player of the server than everyone else.
To preclude any possible misinterpretation, I am not criticizing the developers' work. I have noticed the new (current) HQ's work in continuing progress, and I appreciate their efforts. I am also well aware of the increasing amount of work and detail that went into economic planning for the server over the years, and previously helped test developing scripts as I watched the server's progress with hope through RS3, RS4, and now RS5. But given human unpredictability, I don't think anyone back then (maybe few, at the most) could have forecast that the economy would end up in such an inflated, runaway state despite meticulous planning designed meant precisely to solve previous inflated, runaway economies and prevent future ones.
I am also not saying all / most rich players are like this. We have many players and groups who have been rich over the years, and have become rich for different reasons, but not so that they can exploit other players. Many of them still contribute(d) to quality interaction. Yet the symptoms of excess greed are clear if you go around on the server, and we have to do something about it.
I would criticize the developers, only because they allow themselves to take shit from the players, which is what people liked about Teddy, until he left. Yeah, the economic planning, all bark and no bite. You were probably active when Gandalf was posting his RS5 Series, and Teddy posted a couple of RP opportunities in RS5, yet a lot of those features are gone/scrapped. Why? Because the players reacted negatively to a fucking wallet script, bank cards and so on and on, but we all reacted positively on the 500m payday money given to us for free. Now that is a fuckup on the developers' side. Spawning money? That too. I worked for months to buy a 275k property in the beginning of RS5, then get a loan for the rest of the percentage, and work for more months, until I did it. Now? I'll go to the drug market, sell shitton of drugs, or even go trucking, and have twice that amount within weeks. Let's not talk about trucking, I mean, cmon. We GUIDE NEW PLAYERS TO GO TRUCKING AND MAKE MONEY. There really was potential for this server, now it's just a huge fuckup after fuckup, and people are trying to fix it, but I have the feeling that it's too late.
I agree with this high bunch of paragraphs written, but also the inactivity rate has risen because some people see less players, they see that it will be boring for them, if they see many players, they'd like to hop in. We need to change that too, Argonath's activity rate is mostly down on a level where 17/18 players are online. If this changes, we would have at least 60 players online each day or maybe I would be dreaming. However, try to build interest in this game and trying joining the game at least once, the others will automatically follow you inside. Because they'd see the high player rate, they'll come and think it's great currently inside the server. If you have any thing to add in my suggestion, please do!
And do what? RS5 was supposed to be a challenge, a constant challenge. RS5.2 was supposed to be a version of this challenge that would allow you to play the game even without needing friends. You can't blame the players for not playing. The fault is on the HQ's side ( no, don't be offended, every HQ has their ups and downs, we're all people ) because they have the power to change stuff, script stuff, etc.
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Back at it again with the giant essays gg
it's just like old times
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We need to prioritize role play and having fun instead the robotic mindset of farming the green numeric value seen on the upper right corners of our screens.
Let's face the truth, people are farming money 24/7 because that's all they care for. What's RP if you can't show your supermacy owning 50 houses in the hood of your rival gang/family? The current playerbase is full of people which gather their 5 cousins and cook meth together till they achieve shitload of cash, even if they reach a big amount they will never stop from farming because that's all they know. It's everyone's option to do whatever they want to, but when you prioritize money farming rather than roleplaying then there's a huge issue. Maybe this is the reason why people stop playing.
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We realize that the current economy is pretty inflated and saturated like it was in RS4. I want to overhaul the economic system in 5.3 but I need good suggestions on how it should be done. I can make the scripts sort of "curve" the behavior of players by making them work more for their money but I can't fix the mentality. So please shoot me some ideas on how I can at least somewhat remedy this issue in the new version.
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We realize that the current economy is pretty inflated and saturated like it was in RS4. I want to overhaul the economic system in 5.3 but I need good suggestions on how it should be done. I can make the scripts sort of "curve" the behavior of players by making them work more for their money but I can't fix the mentality. So please shoot me some ideas on how I can at least somewhat remedy this issue in the new version.
Start with removing the possibility of paydays, money spawning commands (or really enforce it so HQ don't spawn cash ) and everything related to spawning money. Basically, leave the dirty money the only method of "spawning", and you might make it a bit harder to convert it to clean, though this might take a lot of thinking. But the damage is done, because you listened to the players. We moaned that there was no way to make money, so Gimli made trucking, and then no one told him it was OP, so shitton of people made money, now no matter how much you nerf it, there will be complains. I don't know, complete the farming script, let people spend some cash too. There's just too many millions out there, the guns being heavily priced won't fix it.
Start removing people's cash on ban too.
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I propose we do nothing.
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Start with removing the possibility of paydays, money spawning commands (or really enforce it so HQ don't spawn cash ) and everything related to spawning money. Basically, leave the dirty money the only method of "spawning", and you might make it a bit harder to convert it to clean, though this might take a lot of thinking. But the damage is done, because you listened to the players. We moaned that there was no way to make money, so Gimli made trucking, and then no one told him it was OP, so shitton of people made money, now no matter how much you nerf it, there will be complains. I don't know, complete the farming script, let people spend some cash too. There's just too many millions out there, the guns being heavily priced won't fix it.
Start removing people's cash on ban too.
I totally agree. I think payday should be removed or heavily restricted, but since that's an HQ thing, it's something for @Brian to consider. Perhaps /sponsor should go to a lottery fund instead of "payday". Damage is done indeed. The only way I think is an option to rectify the millions already in bank accounts is to add some sort of "sink" to balance the economy. This could possibly be in the form of a tax increase on purchases and perhaps maybe even a income tax for jobs.
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Perhaps the taxes should be on percentage of your networth instead ? this way some dudes don't just gather a bunch of millions and sit for the rest of game?
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It won't change anything at all, absolutely nothing.
It's within Argonath's nowadays mentality set. They're all in for who has a larger group, who can shoot better, who has the most properties around the town, who has the fanciest cars, the heaviest weapons. This is Argonath today, which is very sad. The "role play" context of it's ridiculous. All the roleplay I see it's either some dudes, like at least 5 plus, kidnapping some other dude from the "rival mafia", play with him a lot then obviously kill him, either those same dudes bump into new players and again do the same shit they did with their rival, either do the same shit again but it's a cop/federal this time, bomb someone, explode someone. It's all about killing the opposite team. It's really sad. Indeed, there are a few exceptions like AoD, that other military thing, perhaps FLA for his unique concept.
Roleplay doesn't even exist here anymore.
What happened with the problems within a group? Fights, washing money, their legal front, parties. I just see plain murdering. Everyone is friend with everyone and nobody can't fuck things up within their own family for roleplay purposes. That's Argonath for you today: cook meth, harvest weed, sell the drugs to black market whatever, get the cash, spend it on big guns, be part of a mafia, go with ten boys on a federal/rival member rob him/kill him, repeat.
It's sad, that's why so many left.
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Perhaps the taxes should be on percentage of your networth instead ? this way some dudes don't just gather a bunch of millions and sit for the rest of game?
That's basically what I had in mind. Different tax for lower-class, middle-class, and upper-class.
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That's basically what I had in mind. Different tax for lower-class, middle-class, and upper-class.
that's already a thing, taxes are calculated based on property value. which i'm sure you're aware of already
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It won't change anything at all, absolutely nothing.
It's within Argonath's nowadays mentality set. They're all in for who has a larger group, who can shoot better, who has the most properties around the town, who has the fanciest cars, the heaviest weapons. This is Argonath today, which is very sad. The "role play" context of it's ridiculous. All the roleplay I see it's either some dudes, like at least 5 plus, kidnapping some other dude from the "rival mafia", play with him a lot then obviously kill him, either those same dudes bump into new players and again do the same shit they did with their rival, either do the same shit again but it's a cop/federal this time, bomb someone, explode someone. It's all about killing the opposite team. It's really sad. Indeed, there are a few exceptions like AoD, that other military thing, perhaps FLA for his unique concept.
Roleplay doesn't even exist here anymore.
What happened with the problems within a group? Fights, washing money, their legal front, parties. I just see plain murdering. Everyone is friend with everyone and nobody can't fuck things up within their own family for roleplay purposes. That's Argonath for you today: cook meth, harvest weed, sell the drugs to black market whatever, get the cash, spend it on big guns, be part of a mafia, go with ten boys on a federal/rival member rob him/kill him, repeat.
It's sad, that's why so many left.
Pretty much this. There are a few people who contribute positively, however when you try to break the status quo of Meth, Weed, Kidnap, you pretty much get most of the groups/argonath playerbase against you.
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Back at it again with the giant essays gg
HAHAHAAHHAA
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Its all about the doh.
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No thanks.
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@Kacper_Gorski
I suggest adding a limit to the properties of being able to own I.e 5 Buisnesses, 5 Houses?
This is something I want to see added. Exactly what @Julio. said:
I liked it back when you could only own one car, one house, one business etc. Meant you have to put a lot of thought into what you actually bought.
Not to mention that there's honestly no point to owning 18 houses. This is a server with limited properties, and you only need one house or bizz, a few at most. It's fine to get rich, but do people really have to be excessively greedy? No.
It won't change anything at all, absolutely nothing. (...) Roleplay doesn't even exist here anymore. (...) It's sad, that's why so many left.
@Satoshi:
The precise purpose of this topic is to discuss possible solutions. If you're just going to say "things are shitty, it's why people left and more are leaving, and we can't do anything about it" then it is best you either shut up or start contributing something substantial to the discussion. If we cannot do anything, what is the point of continuing as Argonath in the first place? Of being able to open topics like this and discuss ideas? Of being able to make changes?
In case you got lost somewhere in the wall of text, I'll repeat a point from the first post: this is something no single group or person can solve, and that we all have to do this together. Ordinary players and individuals will have to do their part by contributing to player interaction ingame, being the change they want to see, and participating in discussions about changes at the "higher" levels of player groups and HQ / scripts.
Instead of burying a community that isn't dead yet, try doing something to help, because you can.
@Stivi:
No, the purpose of property taxes is making sure players are playing to be able to keep their properties, because if they don't play, then they don't make money, then they can't pay tax, and then they lose the property. Really it's better than the old system, but I'll rewrite that same sentence underlining something important:
No, the purpose of property taxes is making sure players are playing to be able to keep their properties, because if they don't play, then they don't make money, then they can't pay tax, and then they lose the property.
Your premise on this point is exactly the same as mine. Property taxes are there to make sure properties are owned by active players, and "active players" presumes that the said players are playing to keep what they have. I don't see where the contradiction is here.
About the dickheads, ughm, yeah, you can call them whatever you want, but you don't know the reason why that happens, or how the server regulations kinda force you into, and then again it's pretty allowed. Also, this was a problem in RS4 too, but then it was in 3 months, not 2. So we're making progress, but this isn't an issue.
I wasn't talking about players who suddenly have to go inactive only for a month or couple of months, then come back. I was talking about people who haven't been active at all for a really long time and only login just to pay taxes and avoid foreclosure. They reap benefits that should only go to active players, without putting in any effort to actually play, which is completely unfair to active players.
Start removing people's cash on ban too.
This is a good idea. Assuming it is implemented to take more money from those with networth, with safeguards against this happening for mistake bans, it can discourage longtime players from rulebreaking and be a money sink: hitting two birds with one stone.
There really was potential for this server, now it's just a huge fuckup after fuckup, and people are trying to fix it, but I have the feeling that it's too late.
As long as there are people playing here who want things to improve, it is never too late. Unless we all magically lost our balls, then we can go beyond complaining and start participating.
And yes, while players are also at fault, responsibility is also on the HQ. But with current staff who are pushing for improvement (such as @Chase asking for input to fix the economy), our opportunity to solve things as a community has also improved. Let's make use of it.
@djole:
that's already a thing, taxes are calculated based on property value. which i'm sure you're aware of already
Picture out two players, one with a networth of ARD2 Million and the other with a networth of ARD 20 Million. Both of them should be able to buy a business that costs ARD1,900,000. For Player #1, the business will take almost all of his money. For player #2, it is a drop in the bucket and he can continue sitting comfortably.
The point made by @Rei and Chase was that the taxes should continue to challenge players even if you money-farm your way up to absurdly rich levels. Imposing taxes based on property value alone defeats the point of taxing more from those worth more; filthy-rich players still get the same taxes as somewhat-rich players, yet are hardly affected in comparison. That's why people can just farm a (couple) dozen million and sit their ass off comfortably for the rest of the game, which defeats the purpose of continuing challenges.
@TheGreasyChopper:
Pretty much this. There are a few people who contribute positively, however when you try to break the status quo of Meth, Weed, Kidnap, you pretty much get most of the groups/argonath playerbase against you.
Unless you are a sheep without a mind of your own who can only go with what others tell you to do, then you can keep trying. I am in the process of reviving Argonath Express to contribute to news / journalism RP on the server, with a few decent stories and a list of people to (re-)recruit already in line. You and everyone else can bring in more ideas too.
Creativity is driven by players bringing forward new ideas or breathing new life into old ones, and I hope people haven't forgotten about this already — it's what enabled us to create our community and make it last.
Back at it again with the giant essays gg
it's just like old times
Some things never change. :gand:
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I propose we do nothing.
No thanks.
Care to elaborate? @Reckless @Nathan
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Instead of burying a community that isn't dead yet, try doing something to help, because you can.
Isn't it dead tho, I mean peaking with 30-ish players and 70% is either doing weed, meth or being AFK
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Care to elaborate? @Reckless @Nathan
I work to earn money. I spend my money how I like. No further elaboration needed.
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Isn't it dead tho, I mean peaking with 30-ish players and 70% is either doing weed, meth or being AFK
That's what you meet when you come online at Argonath's nighttime, but mostly people are still roleplaying in the daytime at least that's what I see now, and yes, either they are doing meth or weed that's because they don't have any choices because the server is dead at nighttime, and here comes the Money-Farming.
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Isn't it dead tho, I mean peaking with 30-ish players and 70% is either doing weed, meth or being AFK
For this problem, HQ will also have to adjust scripts. But while they cannot directly fix players' mentality, they can either incentivize them into doing more things that require actual player interaction, discourage them from doing things that don't require it at all, or both.
Our dev team is a small group of scripters, limited in number. But they are plenty of us who can also think of improvements. We can start by contributing more ideas and solutions, which will better help the HQ to implement positive changes.
I work to earn money. I spend my money how I like. No further elaboration needed.
I did not say there is a problem with earning money and spending it as you see fit in itself. The problem is people doing it to the extent of a money obsession that compromises the quality of RP / player interaction on the server.
If you understand what the difference is but want to let the money obsession continue, then you are part of the problem. If you don't understand the difference, then think on it some more before you get around to helping.
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I did not say there is a problem with earning money and spending it as you see fit in itself. The problem is people doing it to the extent of a money obsession that compromises the quality of RP / player interaction on the server.
If you understand what the difference is but want to let the money obsession continue, then you are part of the problem. If you don't understand the difference, then think on it some more before you get around to helping.
That's a poor man's line of thinking: "Let's take away from the rich because they have already too much."
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That's a poor man's line of thinking: "Let's take away from the rich because they have already too much."
Are you seriously using that to justify players' money obsession compromising the server's environment?
In case you forgot (which, as the member of the administration, you shouldn't) this is an RPG server, not a money-making server or the RL economy. Money should complement player interaction, the latter being what we are here for; not become the centerpiece of it.
I hardly care about my bank numbers, and I can easily money-farm myself filthy rich if I want to. Rather, I am concerned about the problem I pointed out above. And if you want things to improve, you should be too. But if you don't, then I will have to second-guess your willingness to help this community, because this topic is discussing a real, grave problem acknowledged by many from regular players up to our developers.
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I never thought I'd see the day that VC:MP will become the second most active server, but here it is. Both IVMP and VCMP have taken over SA:MP when it comes to activity. I've went back to SA:MP a few times to try and find out what happened to the server I once loved so much, and it quickly made sense to me when I saw the only online cop being kidnapped by Gvardia's.
It's not just about the money, it's about the playerbase. It's about the mentality of the new playerbase and their lack of understanding. It is no longer about making the roleplay enjoyable for everyone, it's about making the roleplay enjoyable for YOU and yourself only, maybe your group as well. No communication, no understanding of each other, no willing to make compromises. These are not the same players I had so much fun with back in 2012-2015.
It's not the scripts that most people love to blame all of the SAMP's issues on. It's that your playerbase saw a huge degradation in quality since the veteran players and roleplay groups that used to make the server enjoyable left, and their vacancy was half filled with an influx of new players that do not understand the concept of what made Argonath fun - mutual satisfaction.
So in a nuttshell, stop blaming the HQ and stop blaming the scripts. It's your own fault, you chose your mentality to be this way. You chose that a Weedfield TDM is more fun than roleplay interaction, you chose that Mafia vs Mafia TDM is more fun than roleplay. Nobody chose it for you, especially not the HQ.
However, on the HQ's side, if they want to improve the situation, their very first step should be to remove the groups script. It makes no sense. What happened to building your "empire" solely out of your own resources that you put ROLEPLAY into achieving? Now when all you have to do is gather some members, do a few piss poor roleplays and you have yourself script support, no wonder nobody wants to Roleplay anymore when its not required to achieve something.
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their very first step should be to remove the groups script.
Yeah. If you wanna be in groups, you can always role-play that like in ivmp. Change your name to the group and roleplay being a part of it.
Only the most noticeably active groups that roleplay should scripted with a regular check on their activity. Inactive groups are now just being used to hold vehicles and what not.
SA:MP has so much of potential but still the players ruined it somehow. There are literally so few players who actually concentrate on the role playing aspect of this "roleplay" server.
IV:MP and maybe even VC:MP has players who atleast try to roleplay whenever they can instead of just logging on to make money or to kill some other groups members.
Also, spending hours on a weed field and killing cops is no fun anymore even from the cop side. Every weed field that is discovered ends up in a shootout and its not fun anymore. Also its not like that cops should be exist as an army of men who have mission only to kill criminals. I have seen cops who are just here to kill criminals cuz they get free weapons.
I dont really care about money here, I am more into roleplay and interactions with other players because thats the reason i play this game.
But once again player mentality comes in the way and changing player mentality is not easy and i am damn sure that many of the money grinders wont even bother to take any kind of advice from this topic because they just have hours to waste in money grinding instead of having some fun and role-playing.
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I gotta agree with Huntsman on the scripts. I know that much.
If a group comes IG and role-plays a little, HQ will give em cars, HQ and more? What the hell?
That's like Maddy requesting rights for Callahan Security, just HQ would accept it :lol:
Anyway, script support should be for huge groups like Sforza, TCL, R*, TeaM, Gvardia and others.
Someone can't make new groups willy-nilly and get script support for it just like that. What is the Server HQ doing?
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Someone can't make new groups willy-nilly and get script support for it just like that. What is the Server HQ doing?
No one gets script support for free. You've to post role-play pictures and have to wait at least 1 month. If you don't have role-play pictures included with you for days, the group will be delayed, like us, many months after our group got scripted because of RP delay. So, just for your info, no one gets free script support.
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I never thought I'd see the day that VC:MP will become the second most active server, but here it is. Both IVMP and VCMP have taken over SA:MP when it comes to activity. I've went back to SA:MP a few times to try and find out what happened to the server I once loved so much, and it quickly made sense to me when I saw the only online cop being kidnapped by Gvardia's.
It's not just about the money, it's about the playerbase. It's about the mentality of the new playerbase and their lack of understanding. It is no longer about making the roleplay enjoyable for everyone, it's about making the roleplay enjoyable for YOU and yourself only, maybe your group as well. No communication, no understanding of each other, no willing to make compromises. These are not the same players I had so much fun with back in 2012-2015.
It's not the scripts that most people love to blame all of the SAMP's issues on. It's that your playerbase saw a huge degradation in quality since the veteran players and roleplay groups that used to make the server enjoyable left, and their vacancy was half filled with an influx of new players that do not understand the concept of what made Argonath fun - mutual satisfaction.
So in a nuttshell, stop blaming the HQ and stop blaming the scripts. It's your own fault, you chose your mentality to be this way. You chose that a Weedfield TDM is more fun than roleplay interaction, you chose that Mafia vs Mafia TDM is more fun than roleplay. Nobody chose it for you, especially not the HQ.
However, on the HQ's side, if they want to improve the situation, their very first step should be to remove the groups script. It makes no sense. What happened to building your "empire" solely out of your own resources that you put ROLEPLAY into achieving? Now when all you have to do is gather some members, do a few piss poor roleplays and you have yourself script support, no wonder nobody wants to Roleplay anymore when its not required to achieve something.
Lol this crazy little guy throws shit on a specifc group out of nowhere, you should really stick to vcmp or what the fuck you play and let people debate things over here properly.
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I love it how some tend to whine about properties, the same way people whined about it in RS4 (even though back then you could only have one of each) and because of that a reset was placed so that everyone could have a fresh start and was promised the ability to own as many properties as they wanted. Now here we are, the same whining and complaining again, because people can't have every property they want. That's how it works, some properties are more limited than the others and harder to come by; no matter how many changes you ask for regarding properties not all of you are going to be able to own an Ammu-Nation or a mansion in Richman.
Inactive players will eventually lose their properties sooner or later, whether it's not being able to pay tax or going broke because they're only wasting money on taxes and not earning anything. Even in RS4 Market Ammu-Nation managed to get sold due to inactivity.
And let's be serious for a moment, properties are nothing more than things to spend your money on aka money launder. Whether a guy who plays 8 hours a day or a guy who plays only a few hours of day owns a property, it's not going to matter. Some individuals can pretend they'd put some properties into use just because they're being selfish, but I guarantee you they're not going to make any of those properties a "main center of RP" as they try to show.
And generally speaking about the whole "money hungry" thing - it's nothing new, it has always been a problem. Why? Because the server rules itself as well as the script give people the privilege to be like that and that's that.
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No one gets script support for free. You've to post role-play pictures and have to wait at least 1 month. If you don't have role-play pictures included with you for days, the group will be delayed, like us, many months after our group got scripted because of RP delay. So, just for your info, no one gets free script support.
This is ridiculous :lol: You don't have to "post role-play pictures", hell we've been doing that long before half the active playerbase has even joined the server, yet we haven't gotten anything. You gotta be In Game and show the Roleplay there, get noticed by others, interact. If all you're "roleplaying" is growing weedfields, kidnapping people and selling drugs...You should go play Single Player or join some Free-roam community.
The problem with the community is not people being moneyhungry or owning properties, it's the overall mentality. The mentality of always having max armor on and carrying a M4 with a bunch of molotovs, driving a Sultan full of clones has to go. We have managed to make some changes the past year or so, but sadly the attitude is returning and coincidentally the playerbase dropped at the same time.
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Lol this crazy little guy throws shit on a specifc group out of nowhere, you should really stick to vcmp or what the fuck you play and let people debate things over here properly.
For one, I played SAMP for over six years, I am entitled to my opinion on why I no longer enjoy it. And for two, this is precisely why the community went to shit, because the majority of those who remain share your attitude towards things.
I have told you what I specifically saw with my own eyes. And yes, don't worry, I will stick with VCMP, because the server I loved is now infested with cancerous pests like yourself who ruin it for everyone else. Don't take the fact that your group were pretty much forced out of VCMP for exactly that kind of shit out on me. ;)
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Welcome back JDC, this is how Argonath roll now days, bunch of useless groups with shit loads of vehicles and properties which they are not even using, players growing weed 24/7, growing money like it's a big matter, no one roleplays, either getting shot in the roleplay or no roleplay.
You might be able to fix few of the shitty situations going on now days, but you won't fix them all, since it depends only on the player.
I never thought I'd see the day that VC:MP will become the second most active server, but here it is. Both IVMP and VCMP have taken over SA:MP when it comes to activity. I've went back to SA:MP a few times to try and find out what happened to the server I once loved so much, and it quickly made sense to me when I saw the only online cop being kidnapped by Gvardia's.
Weird, i've been in Gvardia for almost 2 years and WE never kidnapped a single cop :uhm: you might have mixed Gvardia with the wrong group.
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WE never kidnapped a single cop you might have mixed Gvardia with the wrong group.
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Weird, i've been in Gvardia for almost 2 years and WE never kidnapped a single cop :uhm: you might have mixed Gvardia with the wrong group.
Sorry sir, but my eyesight is in mint condition.
But that isn't even the point. Replace "Gvardia" with pretty much any other mafia in the game - the point still stands. It's an example used to convey a far bigger issue that plagues the server. And it annoys me, because it prevents me from finding any joy in it anymore.
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Sorry sir, but my eyesight is in mint condition.
But that isn't even the point. Replace "Gvardia" with pretty much any other mafia in the game - the point still stands. It's an example used to convey a far bigger issue that plagues the server. And it annoys me, because it prevents me from finding any joy in it anymore.
Well, you could simply have made an example to show your point without mentioning any, you mentioning Gvardia means you are against Gvardia/hate them. Your point is kinda correct, but there's plenty of useless ACTIVE groups that must be removed instead of letting them ally with older and stronger ones to reach their goals, Why am i mentioning groups ? because more interesting groups this community have more players you'll see, plenty of players who are capable of starting magnificent roleplays left why ? because they either rp with the same players daily, or they get shot when they rp with strangers, why ? because everyone is almost fully armed on this server, like it's a WW3.
Can't blame ya to mention Gvardia, but read the first topic of Gvardia family topic, elaborate the sentences to yourself, and then you'll understand that it's a mafia, and their members RP like ones, hence why most of Gvardias are armed :)
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Why are we acting like VC:MP has any higher roleplay standards or less moneyhungry people? :lol:
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Nice man you caught me! :lol: i suggest you read the text logs perhaps you'll understand that Leonardo did help GROUP A to reach one of Gvardia members or helped them to. And let's say Gvardia kidnapped a cop, did he die ? Na :lol: we keep it real mate.
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Can we discus about bringing a solution to the problem @JDC pointed out ?
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Nice man you caught me! :lol: i suggest you read the text logs perhaps you'll understand that Leonardo did help GROUP A to reach one of Gvardia member or helped them to. And let's say Gvardia kidnapped a cop, did he die ? Na :lol: we keep it real mate.
I didn't quote this to get you caught or anything. We all know that the server isn't at it's best right now, and you can't just act innocent out of this. If we want things to change we should start from ourselves.
Can we discus about bringing a solution to the problem @JDC pointed out ?
^
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Can we please discus about bringing a solution to the problem @JDC pointed out ?
He brought many points out, and i did tell him the problem and it's solution, Moneyhungers? pfft in every SA:MP server there's moneyhungers, solution is related to players only, for example, he said ONE PLAYER own a whole complex, well i remember Brian setting up a complex at Commerce and Sforza bought 'em all lol. On the other hand @Huntsman < this dude mentioned Gvardia as it's THE group THAT ruins the server.
Back on RS4 we had no such " stop or die " rule, and yet 50 out of 120 DAILY active players did roleplay and will to improve from the server, now the playerbase is like how much 50 maximum ? 40 players doing weed 5 cops online and 5 chatting on /p it's as easy as that. Nothing is interesting nowdays, i hope the new update will gain players interest to come back and actually do something.
I didn't quote this to get you caught or anything. We all know that the server isn't at it's best right now, and you can't just act innocent out of this. If we want things to change we should start from ourselves. ^
You did quote it for a reason don't twist it up, i'm a kind of person who does the following IF i can't change anything i won't run my mouth in everything. BUT i'm one of those few players who did try to change the server's mentality, but eventually i lost interest cuz simply, this server have the wrong players with the powers :)
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Imma stick to the topic, like ya'll should do!
So, as much as I want to change the CASH CASH mentality and turn it to 24/7 RP...I can't...the HQ can't. No matter what adjustments are made or how expensive things are some people would sit in their Journey and farm 24/7 so they can buy that..hell if it's more expensive they'll focus more on making money to buy it, that's their definition of fun.
While some of us think that RPing is fun, some people prefer to farm money so they can buy stuff, that's FUN for them. And we can't change that, doesn't matter what scripts we add or what we remove. It all depends on the people.
Don't get me wrong, I am not happy with how things are and I'd be amazed if somehow things begin to change.
I can't think of anything that can change the money farming mentality, but I have an idea on how we can connect the RP and money making.
Now you know how in stunt servers you get money for doing stunts, the more crazy the stunt is the more money you get.
Well same thing can be done with the RP, the better the RP scenario and lines, the more money you get.
Now this is now a thing to be scripted, it has to be supervised, by HQ for example, while it's a busy thing and kinda insane to do, it's probably the only way we can get more RP with the playerbase we have.
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Imma stick to the topic, like ya'll should do!
So, as much as I want to change the CASH CASH mentality and turn it to 24/7 RP...I can't...the HQ can't. No matter what adjustments are made or how expensive things are some people would sit in their Journey and farm 24/7 so they can buy that..hell if it's more expensive they'll focus more on making money to buy it, that's their definition of fun.
While some of us think that RPing is fun, some people prefer to farm money so they can buy stuff, that's FUN for them. And we can't change that, doesn't matter what scripts we add or what we remove. It all depends on the people.
Don't get me wrong, I am not happy with how things are and I'd be amazed if somehow things begin to change.
I can't think of anything that can change the money farming mentality, but I have an idea on how we can connect the RP and money making.
Now you know how in stunt servers you get money for doing stunts, the more crazy the stunt is the more money you get.
Well same thing can be done with the RP, the better the RP scenario and lines, the more money you get.
Now this is now a thing to be scripted, it has to be supervised, by HQ for example, while it's a busy thing and kinda insane to do, it's probably the only way we can get more RP with the playerbase we have.
You pretty much summed my thoughts up, no matter what the script is some players will chase money no matter how the script looks. It has been like that since ever and will always stay.
Regarding your idea I don't know I mean I still believe that the players that are currently on the hunt for cash more then roleplay will stay like that unless you make roleplay the only method to earn money.
I really can't suggest a solution to the over all public but I'm trying to start it all with my self and my own gameplay.
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If they make more money when RPing rather then cooking meth they will prob try to RP ;d
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If they make more money when RPing rather then cooking meth they will prob try to RP ;d
Yeah but I feel like if that ever happens, they won't really put themselves into the roleplay and actually do it properly.
I mean you can't really buy some one to roleplay, people need to find the fun side in roleplay by themselves.
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If they make more money when RPing rather then cooking meth they will prob try to RP ;d
It's a great idea right? let me give you a cool example players might need... Driving Schools, owners must be rich as fuck correct? how about giving their employees 50-100k per month as a salary? with a little push from the HQ they can reach 150k monthly. Same goes for Driver duty, Easytaxi for example got supported by HQ, employees got $50k monthly with bonuses i think they reached 75k-80k that's if they're normal not super active, some players got sport vehicles as a reward for being active.
Creating ROLEPLAYING companies and fund their employees might be the solution, it's part of roleplaying, creating a script like trucking is petty and boring, i mean you will truck alone? you won't roleplay with nearby players.
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If they make more money when RPing rather then cooking meth they will prob try to RP ;d
Try to make a limit time for cooking and weeding. For example, there's a day that allowed only to either cooking or weeding but not both at the same time and there's a day that cannot do any illegal activity. Perhaps people would start making role play for that.
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It's a great idea right? let me give you a cool example players might need... Driving Schools, owners must be rich as fuck correct? how about giving their employees 50-100k per month as a salary? with a little push from the HQ they can reach 150k monthly. Same goes for Driver duty, Easytaxi for example got supported by HQ, employees got $50k monthly with bonuses i think they reached 75k-80k that's if they're normal not super active, some players got sport vehicles as a reward for being active.
Creating ROLEPLAYING companies and fund their employees might be the solution, it's part of roleplaying, creating a script like trucking is petty and boring, i mean you will truck alone? you won't roleplay with nearby players.
Yeah that's a great example actually why not spread and invest into groups and different fields of roleplay, I'm not talking in a manner of replacing scripted jobs but it can be a nice addition every group I had the chance to create that works on RP only concepts (none of them actually founded to make profit) is made out of people that are willing to interact no matter if money is involved or not.
but giving sponsoring support may actually attract the ones who are looking for good pay as well, it can reach the point where these different groups take new players under their wings to teach them and help them financially too on the same route.
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Yeah that's a great example actually why not spread and invest into groups and different fields of roleplay, I'm not talking in a manner of replacing scripted jobs but it can be a nice addition every group I had the chance to create that works on RP only concepts (none of them actually founded to make profit) is made out of people that are willing to interact no matter if money is involved or not.
but giving sponsoring support may actually attract the ones who are looking for good pay as well, it can reach the point where these different groups take new players under their wings to teach them and help them financially too on the same route.
It's a light rp server after all, scripts also support unscripted jobs, Mayor script is an important one, yet we have no mayor to take care of HQ's work ICly, Mayor of a specific city can support group A/Business..etc and fund them to work harder.
Hell . . . want criminals to RP ? want to create lawsuits n shit? BUILD A FUCKING PRISON !! and make criminals jail time starts from 5 minutes to 24 hours, that would be cool, cops should show more interest to interact other than pulling the trigger, that will give criminals the motivation to /gu when they're surrounded or run if the have the chance.
easy solutions that needs a small motivation to change the mentality, but players don't want a change.
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I totally agree. I think payday should be removed or heavily restricted, but since that's an HQ thing, it's something for @Brian to consider. Perhaps /sponsor should go to a lottery fund instead of "payday". Damage is done indeed. The only way I think is an option to rectify the millions already in bank accounts is to add some sort of "sink" to balance the economy. This could possibly be in the form of a tax increase on purchases and perhaps maybe even a income tax for jobs.
Removed, yes. /sponsor can still be /sponsor, and once there's a pool large enough a manager can make a payday. But that's just players' money and not spawned in. Now I am aware that the money currently in the server is also from bugged money, hackers and whatnot. Please be understanding when I blame the HQ, I don't want to insult you or anyone for the matter, I like that you all are trying to make things better. A sink is fine, but really what's the point, only a few wealthy ones who can afford it will use it, and they will remain wealthy.
Now I might get a backlash, but what about making some things purchasable by bank only, and make dirty cash a bit harder to clean, as originally intended I suppose. You got to give more ways for the police to bust money, so you give criminals something to be afraid of. Civilians, well they're civilians.
Bringing back territory script is something I would like to see, but not the coloured map, just the script functioning properly.
Your premise on this point is exactly the same as mine. Property taxes are there to make sure properties are owned by active players, and "active players" presumes that the said players are playing to keep what they have. I don't see where the contradiction is here.
Sure, but there are certain individuals who have millions and they don't necessarily need to play to make money. Eventually, though, they will run out of cash, so the system works fine, in theory.
I wasn't talking about players who suddenly have to go inactive only for a month or couple of months, then come back. I was talking about people who haven't been active at all for a really long time and only login just to pay taxes and avoid foreclosure. They reap benefits that should only go to active players, without putting in any effort to actually play, which is completely unfair to active players.
A couple of months is fine, but a couple of months can mean a couple of years too. Care to mention some of these players you speak of? You might even use my PM and I'll give you a reason why it happens. It's not unfair to active players, people lose interest, it's perfectly normal, but they aren't leaving the community, which is both good and bad, but they didn't hack/cheat their way into getting hold of those properties.
As long as there are people playing here who want things to improve, it is never too late. Unless we all magically lost our balls, then we can go beyond complaining and start participating.
Been here, hoping for the better, before RS5 was even on beta stage. Was also part of the beta testers. Then RS5.2 came, was also QA member then, even a helper for RS5.2. Can go as far as saying that I know more than the current helpers, and I'm a problematic player too, but that didn't change anything. I once called a certain developer power-hungry, three developers immediately RESIGNED even though I apologized to all of those I didn't mean to offend in private too. I once was trash-talking another developer, who is basically a meme now, which the current HQ also makes fun of, and got kicked from the staff team. Now I'm not the only one who wants to help, fuck even Cena wanted to help, until we all fucked it up and pushed those, who loudly asked for change, away. And no, that wasn't the players' fault. I would name, but that'd result in a topic lock and I don't want that.
And yes, while players are also at fault, responsibility is also on the HQ. But with current staff who are pushing for improvement (such as @Chase asking for input to fix the economy), our opportunity to solve things as a community has also improved. Let's make use of it.
The players are always at fault, but since there are no punished players for breaking the rules, then the fault relies on HQ and solely them. NOT THE CURRENT HQ, IM TALKING IN GENERAL.
I never thought I'd see the day that VC:MP will become the second most active server, but here it is. Both IVMP and VCMP have taken over SA:MP when it comes to activity. I've went back to SA:MP a few times to try and find out what happened to the server I once loved so much, and it quickly made sense to me when I saw the only online cop being kidnapped by Gvardia's.
And that to you is TDM? Kidnapping the only cop online, to have a shootout with who exactly? Sit down and learn how to have a conversation around, because as far as you should be concerned, Scotto, Ancelotti and Gvardia brought back the activity to RS5.
So in a nuttshell, stop blaming the HQ and stop blaming the scripts. It's your own fault, you chose your mentality to be this way. You chose that a Weedfield TDM is more fun than roleplay interaction, you chose that Mafia vs Mafia TDM is more fun than roleplay. Nobody chose it for you, especially not the HQ.
However, on the HQ's side, if they want to improve the situation, their very first step should be to remove the groups script. It makes no sense. What happened to building your "empire" solely out of your own resources that you put ROLEPLAY into achieving? Now when all you have to do is gather some members, do a few piss poor roleplays and you have yourself script support, no wonder nobody wants to Roleplay anymore when its not required to achieve something.
No and no. The HQ took decisions and players adapted to them. The HQ is the players themselves. It's their fault, because they took shit from players when they initially said they wouldn't, or whatever they said. Weedfield TDM is your made up name, because the police force couldn't handle a lot of criminals in one place. Welcome to the real life.
Are you actually serious coming here blaming the HQ for a group script? And moreover, script-support? HOW THE FUCK does one builds his empire if he can't spawn at his own HQ. Please, spare me the arguments and go learn how the scripts actually work. You have to buy the HQ anyway, it's just that it gets set as an HQ so members can spawn there. Oh and the cars? You buy them. Later.
Fuck is that supposed to mean? He wasn't the only cop online, was he? Because I was asking the money from the police force? In that scenario he engaged a lot of suspects alone, so we took a hostage. How is that wrong? Fuck you probably didn't even play the server back then. Don't start shit.
While some of us think that RPing is fun, some people prefer to farm money so they can buy stuff, that's FUN for them. And we can't change that, doesn't matter what scripts we add or what we remove. It all depends on the people.
Don't get me wrong, I am not happy with how things are and I'd be amazed if somehow things begin to change.
I can't think of anything that can change the money farming mentality, but I have an idea on how we can connect the RP and money making.
Now you know how in stunt servers you get money for doing stunts, the more crazy the stunt is the more money you get.
Well same thing can be done with the RP, the better the RP scenario and lines, the more money you get.
Now this is now a thing to be scripted, it has to be supervised, by HQ for example, while it's a busy thing and kinda insane to do, it's probably the only way we can get more RP with the playerbase we have.
Yeah, and if the HQ made some clear regulations, then things would be so much better. Tell you what, back when meth got released "the recipe" was leaked everywhere the second day. The fuck is that? Metagaming. Right, so everyone got into meth, and as a mobster and not someone who would sit in a Journey and make meth on a remote location, I decided I would kill off the competition, or have them work for me. Good business right? Cops would never come at the set location, and if they did, hopefully, they would be gunned down. Now the problem is people don't like to work for you, so they die, lose their meth batch and equipment, and then they start cooking RIGHT AFTER. You tell me that's fine? Yeah I'm not exactly a DMer, but I would DM the fuck out of that guy for two days in a row. If I went back? He would report me. If I reported him? Nothing, allowed by the rules. Need I go on?
but players don't want a change.
And the HQ listens to us. So, the HQ gotta up their game.
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The majority of the "causes" you guys are mentioning did not seem to be a problem two years ago. Once again, it is the players, and only the players, that have gotten the server to the point it is now.
As for Antonio, for the sakes of not derailing the topic any further, I will not answer that question. I'd be more than happy to continue that discussion in PM, however.
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Fuck you probably didn't even play the server back then. Don't start shit.
If you haven't noticed you're always the one who tries to start shit. Going off topic in here, starting topics when getting punished, and last but not least in game. Yes, I was playing at the time get your facts straight.
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I quit playing SAMP for few reasons, some of them are people don't give a fuck what you are rping, they have there goal to jail/kill you and no rp will save you or delay that, you can complain to higher ranked people of those groups you get a reply get rekt son you accepted rp,don't whine now.
Ok cool, so i kinda rolled with same group of people when they are online, when they are not there.
Every interaction with rival group lead to jail or death, one instance is my first interaction with a rival group high ranked member when requesting a meeting, he told me to meet at a location, i came there called him im on the spot, then got stormed by tiped off FBI that im farming drugs, tho the drop off spot of the drugs was 10m away I had no idea what it was, and tiped off FBI had no time/interst for my story. You are here you are guilty, asked for investigation, same dude who suspected me investigated me, so its like the executor, judge and jury is the same man, naturally i was found guilty and escorted to jail.
On scale of well played i can say nothing i was duped hard had a good laugh how i was set up, the agent tho kinda mesed up my general impressions.
When ppl don't care, others who are new stop caring, and here you are sampers dying off, due to your own actions.
I feel sorry for all those who put effort into rp, but they are so few compared to ppl who just don't care, he came online to shoot, chase, kill.
And 80% of players come online for those reasons, RP is done in strict in house conditions, so god forbid you lose in a rp or get out smarted.
And to have some cool rp pics for your topic, i only few times seen screens of positive interaction between any groups.
Most i seen had only one goal and that was to taunt rivals.
Other rp is done when you have a sweet ratio 3:1 in favor of your side, that's when you come and surround your rivals, while you wait for anything at all to use as excuse to squeeze the trigger.
This is allowed as its within the rules that with some rp you can start a TDM, rules are made flimsy and you expect people not to bend rules so they win against rivals.
Shame on you for thinking that loose rules will lead to more quality RP.
Make rules harsh for low quality rp and things might change till then nothing will change.
With high quality RP ppl won't care to put even more effort into farming money as it will be more fun to RP, then to grind, well to most players at least, in some cases there is just no help, players are individuals and no set of rules can make 100% follow and play by them.
For a change of pace and flavor of something new visit T4 ivmp many new things are planed.
Cheers :)
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I dont wish to but if shit goes bad even further then ima roll back to ivmp
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With high quality RP ppl won't care to put even more effort into farming money as it will be more fun to RP, then to grind, well to most players at least, in some cases there is just no help, players are individuals and no set of rules can make 100% follow and play by them.
For a change of pace and flavor of something new visit T4 ivmp many new things are planed.
With high quality RP people think of some other RP server. They confuse strict with high quality and we instead have to resort to this. :/
Smooth.
If you haven't noticed you're always the one who tries to start shit. Going off topic in here, starting topics when getting punished, and last but not least in game. Yes, I was playing at the time get your facts straight.
Exactly my man, I was the one to mention Gvardia here, yep, definitely me and not Huntsman. Off topic? What about the rest of the reply, or is JDC the only one allowed to respond to it? Please spare me the time of explaining assumptions to you, you go to school for that.
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And that to you is TDM? Kidnapping the only cop online, to have a shootout with who exactly? Sit down and learn how to have a conversation around, because as far as you should be concerned, Scotto, Ancelotti and Gvardia brought back the activity to RS5
You're trying to shift my words for your own convenience.
These were completely seperate examples. Kidnapping the only cop online is wrong, because as I mentioned, you're pretty much making the RP one sided. The cop has no chance of being rescued or to somehow get any satisfaction from it.
The TDM issue I mentioned more resolves about deathmatch fests over weedfields. Something like this was unheard of in RS4, and once again, not because of the scripts, nor because of the money, but because the player base was different and had an average IQ of above a single digit number. Someone who actually understood the meaning and the concept of the server.
Stop clinging to the Gvardia example I used. As mentioned already, you may replace it with pretty much any group in the server. Nobody but you yourselves are trying to portray yourselves as being attacked, when it was not my intention. That discussion could have ended two pages ago but you keep bringing it up. I simply used an example of a personal witness account.
Don't lecture me on how to have a conversation, especially considering the fact that your own behaviour here rarely portrays you capable of reasonable thought.
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The TDM issue I mentioned more resolves about deathmatch fests over weedfields. Something like this was unheard of in RS4, and once again, not because of the scripts, nor because of the money, but because the player base was different and had an average IQ of above a single digit number. Someone who actually understood the meaning and the concept of the server.
No, it is because of the scripts. Because in RS4, we had a single PLANT, for three minutes as a weedfield. We now have actual weed fields, you ever been to one IRL? If a single person is planting it, it's gonna take days for him to do it, and days after can he harvest it. So, we gather a group and go grow. Two hours is enough to go around the map for at least 5 times, so we need protection on the field, or we lose it. It's really the script, the players only learned how to adapt to it. Been a player of RS4, as many others, and we're still here playing, you even insulted yourself with the IQ argument you pulled off.
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You're trying to shift my words for your own convenience.
These were completely seperate examples. Kidnapping the only cop online is wrong, because as I mentioned, you're pretty much making the RP one sided. The cop has no chance of being rescued or to somehow get any satisfaction from it.
The TDM issue I mentioned more resolves about deathmatch fests over weedfields. Something like this was unheard of in RS4, and once again, not because of the scripts, nor because of the money, but because the player base was different and had an average IQ of above a single digit number. Someone who actually understood the meaning and the concept of the server.
Stop clinging to the Gvardia example I used. As mentioned already, you may replace it with pretty much any group in the server. Nobody but you yourselves are trying to portray yourselves as being attacked, when it was not my intention. That discussion could have ended two pages ago but you keep bringing it up. I simply used an example of a personal witness account.
Don't lecture me on how to have a conversation, especially considering the fact that your own behaviour here rarely portrays you capable of reasonable thought.
Yes you used Gvardia in your example which is wrong yes, you said that im a toxic player well let me remind you that you were the one who got banned both in game and on forums for toxicity.
Now please let people which actually play on the SAMP server, as this is SAMP not VCMP suggestion board debate their ideas. You're doing nothing more than spreading false accusations and once again being toxic overall. Thanks. Now lets resume the topic subject.
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I am not going to retaliate to that for the sanity of this topic. I'll just say I disagree with you both.
Ive been playing SAMP for about six-seven years, and only fairly recently stopped playing regularly. Nevertheless, I still occiasionally pay a visit. I would not dismiss returning to the server if the issues raised in this topic were tackled. So yes, this concerns me as much as it concerns you.
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I am not going to retaliate to that for the sanity of this topic. I'll just say I disagree with you both.
Ive been playing SAMP for about six-seven years, and only fairly recently stopped playing regularly. Nevertheless, I still occiasionally pay a visit. I would not dismiss returning to the server if the issues raised in this topic were tackled. So yes, this concerns me as much as it concerns you.
You can disagree, but what I said isn't wrong, or can you convince me it is?
Sure, I haven't even played for an hour myself even, but that's because my internet connection is bad, and quite frankly it gets boring IG really quickly, which I'm sure you already know.
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Long story short, we need stuff to keep players busy.
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it gets boring IG really quickly
One of the factors as well. Due to the fact everyone so busy dm'ing over weedfields and grinding money, there is literally nothing to do if you are not involved with a mafia. I can imagine it isn't much fun for cops either to constantly be absorbed into these endless wars over the weed plants.
You get in game, and there's complete silence. Even in the mainchat, which used to be one of the more fun aspects of the game. I can't count how many fun roleplay interactions I had with the most random people in the streets back in the day. Nowadays nobody wants to interact, all they want is to increase their e-penis by either killing someone or earning money. Most of the times I tried to approach someone for some roleplay I was either ignored, pushed away or even attacked.
Yet once again I am of the opinion scripts are not to blame. RS4 had plenty of ways to grind money too. Didn't seem to be a problem. In the end those were the scripts people asked for, those are the scripts they got. IT's always easy to shift the blame on someone else.
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One of the factors as well. Due to the fact everyone so busy dm'ing over weedfields and grinding money, there is literally nothing to do if you are not involved with a mafia. I can imagine it isn't much fun for cops either to constantly be absorbed into these endless wars over the weed plants.
I am part of a mafia, your arguments make no sense dude. What the fuck is it with you and weedfields, that's not the problem with money or this topic, why are you doing this?
Yet once again I am of the opinion scripts are not to blame. RS4 had plenty of ways to grind money too. Didn't seem to be a problem. In the end those were the scripts people asked for, those are the scripts they got. IT's always easy to shift the blame on someone else.
Because I say HQ is at fault, I'm not shifting the blame. I'm toxic as fuck, but that doesn't mean I don't care or what I say is wrong, only how I say it. HQ has the power to change stuff, they aren't, they listen to the players, but they listen to whatever is requested the most. The majority is always wrong, because the majority of people are dumbasses, not smart ones.
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HQ has the power to change stuff, they aren't, they listen to the players, but they listen to whatever is requested the most. The majority is always wrong, because the majority of people are dumbasses, not smart ones.
@Grimbeorn @Bengt @Brian I think we have a new candidate for top-elite HQ member.
Please, show me how you would handle situations Stivi.
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Why not just get rid of the unnecessary scripts, and find ways to make money harder.
What is the point in randomly farming? Where's the effort?
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PLEASE STOP blaming each other for certain things, and stop saying "can't be fixed, oh well". This is how you achieve nothing. Instead someone please DO reply on this topic (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=123714.0) for economic overhaul. Then we can have some constructive discussion and maybe reach some sort of mutual agreement.
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Yeah, I hope I'm not beating a dead horse in here, but an overall script overhaul of the economics won't work. The problem is with the playerbase's mentality, rather than the script itself. The whole phenomenon started around late 2017 when most people contributing and actually postively influencing roleplay either left the server or gave up and went together with the others for the status quo.
People are being kicked/warned even banned for "Not here to roleplay", yet most of the active playerbase and "groups" are not here to roleplay and do not get any sort of punishment for it, they are not being encouraged to roleplay.
Call me an elitist, old timer or whatever you want, but if all you do while in game is to grind drugs, kidnap people and buy properties you never open for the public, you are not roleplaying. The term "Cancer" is pretty much the closest I can compare this majority of players. It is all "Mafia RP" without much roleplaying or character development going on. Enforce people to develop their characters. Yeah, if there are 5 people online and some AFK, be my guest - take your journey ontop of Chilliad or wherever your hideout is, cook some meth, grow a field or what not. But when there are 20 players online, half if not more of them parts of a "Mafia" or "Gang", all they do is grind drugs or kidnap people. Hell, with how things work today, I'm starting to miss all these endless pages of Cops vs Criminals arguments on forums, fighting for script support...
This is the problem we are facing, not scripts, not economics. RS4 economics were FUBAR, but things worked, people roleplayed, lack of Roleplay is what is killing the server. Start enforcing rules about the roleplay(Introduce a regulation on metagaming and powergaming[in both of Powergaming aspects - play2win as well as overpowering and being a superhero). Now before you call me out and say this won't work on Argonath...Argonath ain't working pretty well lately, perhaps we should try moving on and giving it a chance, eh?
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Yeah, I hope I'm not beating a dead horse in here, but an overall script overhaul of the economics won't work. The problem is with the playerbase's mentality, rather than the script itself. The whole phenomenon started around late 2017 when most people contributing and actually postively influencing roleplay either left the server or gave up and went together with the others for the status quo.
People are being kicked/warned even banned for "Not here to roleplay", yet most of the active playerbase and "groups" are not here to roleplay and do not get any sort of punishment for it, they are not being encouraged to roleplay.
Call me an elitist, old timer or whatever you want, but if all you do while in game is to grind drugs, kidnap people and buy properties you never open for the public, you are not roleplaying. The term "Cancer" is pretty much the closest I can compare this majority of players. It is all "Mafia RP" without much roleplaying or character development going on. Enforce people to develop their characters. Yeah, if there are 5 people online and some AFK, be my guest - take your journey ontop of Chilliad or wherever your hideout is, cook some meth, grow a field or what not. But when there are 20 players online, half if not more of them parts of a "Mafia" or "Gang", all they do is grind drugs or kidnap people. Hell, with how things work today, I'm starting to miss all these endless pages of Cops vs Criminals arguments on forums, fighting for script support...
This is the problem we are facing, not scripts, not economics. RS4 economics were FUBAR, but things worked, people roleplayed, lack of Roleplay is what is killing the server. Start enforcing rules about the roleplay(Introduce a regulation on metagaming and powergaming[in both of Powergaming aspects - play2win as well as overpowering and being a superhero). Now before you call me out and say this won't work on Argonath...Argonath ain't working pretty well lately, perhaps we should try moving on and giving it a chance, eh?
I agree. It's a slim chance it will work but I rather at least try before giving up. Unfortunately I don't make the rules or decide how they're enforced. That's something @Brian has to try to fix. I'm going to do everything within my power to make things better but yes, in the end HQ has to make some changes too.
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Really silly to see players who don't play SA:MP daily commenting about such stuff and comparing them to VC:MP and IV:MP, you just throw few comments, blame a specific player/group then fly away then a shit storm happen.
It's simple, you don't play SA:MP daily, you don't know what players are facing daily, you don't know what players lack of from the server, and most importantly you don't know how HQ run things, HQ take the major vote out of " Ideas and Suggestions section " and start to work on the most supported idea, some of are good, some are bad.
You simply run your mouth in things you are not expert in, or know how to fix it it's the summarize of what i've read in the previous pages. Are you aware that groups we used to have were the MAIN interest on this server? You are aware that GROUPS make players die to join 'em, just to roll with them and roleplay with them? where are those lovely groups? gone..
Instead of adding weird rules to make players obey them [ RULES THAT FORCE PLAYERS TO INTERACT ] just to do few /me and /l then end it the way they want, try to show the players the entertaining part in roleplaying, @Twenty i saw you few times IG, chatting on /p riding your pink bullet doing stunts near by LSCH then blowing up, that's all you do on SA:MP never saw you roleplaying, @Huntsman Same goes for you, but you either go afk or fuck around as a freecop.
The improvement should start from players, not scripts, RS5's scripts are awesome, but they're being exploited to gain money instead of roleplaying and gaining money. NO ONE on this server even tried to start something unique, i mean there's 3 Italian mafias on the server :lol: WHY ?
This is way out of the main subject, cuz everyone thinks he's a god among us, and he's always right, i've been in here since 2011 and i'm sure about what i'm writing, there's no more interest on this server, because of the following :
1/ MOST of the players with powers ( moderators + ) exploit their powers to help their side/group.
2/ HQ is trying to raise the playerbase INSTEAD of focusing on supporting quality players/ideas.
3/ Niggas been using cheats to feed their MUST win mentality < i mean it's a game, why would you always win ?
Typical roleplays same roleplayers, same scenarios, 99.9 % of the roleplays end up with bullets, no one is willing to leave someone alive to respond in a next RP, everyone wants to win... I KNOW it's sad how argonath ended, but it's the SAD truth. Let's hope argonath won't end at such a point.. And if someone have something useful provide it through this topic, if not don't run your mouth and pointing at the wrong players/groups talking shit just to feed their personal thoughts..
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Really silly to see players who don't play SA:MP daily commenting about such stuff and comparing them to VC:MP and IV:MP, you just throw few comments, blame a specific player/group then fly away then a shit storm happen.
It's simple, you don't play SA:MP daily, you don't know what players are facing daily, you don't know what players lack of from the server, and most importantly you don't know how HQ run things, HQ take the major vote out of " Ideas and Suggestions section " and start to work on the most supported idea, some of are good, some are bad.
You simply run your mouth in things you are not expert in, or know how to fix it it's the summarize of what i've read in the previous pages. Are you aware that groups we used to have were the MAIN interest on this server? You are aware that GROUPS make players die to join 'em, just to roll with them and roleplay with them? where are those lovely groups? gone..
Instead of adding weird rules to make players obey them [ RULES THAT FORCE PLAYERS TO INTERACT ] just to do few /me and /l then end it the way they want, try to show the players the entertaining part in roleplaying, @Twenty i saw you few times IG, chatting on /p riding your pink bullet doing stunts near by LSCH then blowing up, that's all you do on SA:MP never saw you roleplaying, @Huntsman Same goes for you, but you either go afk or fuck around as a freecop.
The improvement should start from players, not scripts, RS5's scripts are awesome, but they're being exploited to gain money instead of roleplaying and gaining money. NO ONE on this server even tried to start something unique, i mean there's 3 Italian mafias on the server :lol: WHY ?
This is way out of the main subject, cuz everyone thinks he's a god among us, and he's always right, i've been in here since 2011 and i'm sure about what i'm writing, there's no more interest on this server, because of the following :
1/ MOST of the players with powers ( moderators + ) exploit their powers to help their side/group.
2/ HQ is trying to raise the playerbase INSTEAD of focusing on supporting quality players/ideas.
3/ Niggas been using cheats to feed their MUST win mentality < i mean it's a game, why would you always win ?
Typical roleplays same roleplayers, same scenarios, 99.9 % of the roleplays end up with bullets, no one is willing to leave someone alive to respond in a next RP, everyone wants to win... I KNOW it's sad how argonath ended, but it's the SAD truth. Let's hope argonath won't end at such a point.. And if someone have something useful provide it through this topic, if not don't run your mouth and pointing at the wrong players/groups talking shit just to feed their personal thoughts..
I did not compare anything to IV:MP as I perfectly know it is not comparable. I returned to Argonath in 2015 and ever since I have been shocked about the SA:MP server, reaching its maximum point about 6 months ago. I do not play SA:MP daily, true. But atleast when I am ingame (mostly even weekly), I see enough shit coming by to make the conclusion that the general mentality is more shit than before or in any other Argonath server.
I am not an expert in running a server or changing mentality, but the fun thing is, neither are you or are any other players. Thats why I asked Stivi to show us since HQ has fucked up according to him.
As for the driving around: exactly, that is how I relax on a server with a mentality where noone wants to RP. When I returned in 2015, I did not own anything. I started some roleplays, but quickly lost faith in other players due to their mentality and fucked up roleplay level. Do you think I am willing to continue getting fed up by players who either always roleplay to win or kill? No thank you. Thats why I decided to go on and relax how I want it.
If there is a damn roleplay happening, I will participate in it. Either it be a car crash or a damn medic, as long as players don’t troll or come destroy the roleplay with their shit RP, I will roleplay as best as possible, the roleplay I learned back in 2008 in a fun environment.
As for noone tried something unique, doesn’t UBER, accepting rockstars by audition, medical checks sound unique to you? I stopped thinking of unique shit because of the lack of people willing to participate. I cannot change the server alone, even if I wanted and tried to.
As for SA:MP in general, you should stop pretending like you are the superior server in Argonath. I know SA:MP made the community big, but please. Telling community members to fuck off to their servers they play on the most is a fucked up egoïsm way to keep SA:MP at the top. Face it; it is not anymore and if the playerbase continues to be like this, it will never.
As said, before players’ mentality change and roleplay picks up again, I won’t return either anymore. You guys should think as a goddamn community for once instead of SA:MP egoïsm.
I sincerely hope current HQ either fixes the mess created by the players, wakes up Gandalf for real to fix this or plug out, or make the server an enjoyable place again. Untill then, bye.
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idk why you're all still trying to change argonath... if you want to play on a proper hard rp server go for it, but this isn't one and it never will be. nobody is stopping you from RPing however you wish within your group but don't try to force other people to play the game the way you think it should be played
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Please just fuck off back to IVMP
All but one of your replies to this topic, @AK47, have had no good points or substance to them. Perhaps instead of telling people to fuck off and being part of the problem mentality that's slashed our playercount in half, you can put your years of experience to good use and contribute something positive to the solution?
That also goes for everyone else who tried turning this topic into yet another dick-measuring contest. If you people have the energy to identify and complain about the problem, then unless your skull and/or balls are only filled with air there is no reason why you cannot participate in fixing it.
But ignoring those posts, I am glad plenty of sensible points were raised in the discussion and I commend those of you who did. This is why I still have faith in this community. I've made my own set of suggestions to Chase's topic, with a mix of ideas.
Here are some ideas from others, as well as some ideas of my own. A mix of positive (incentive) and negative (deterrent) reinforcements.
1. Stricter property checks on inactive players, done by either script, admins / HQ, or a combination of both. If a player is found to have a consistent (to spare players who go inactive for better reasons than to be useless asset hoarders) pattern of inactivity yet paying property taxes (e.g. less than 10 hours played a month for 3 hours in a row, or some variation thereof) then they will lose their properties.
If you want to be even stricter on this, perhaps even add an indefinite property-buying ban on players who lose their property that way until they can improve their activity, say by achieving X hours in one month. Some may complain, but the only way they can have this imposed on them in the first place is by being inactive for several months while still paying taxes. (a.k.a. hoarding. If you won't play, leave properties to the active guys)
2. Penalize inactive groups. If the group and its members are barely active, maybe they can lose a group vehicle or two. Or all of them. If you don't contribute as a group, expect reduced support as a group. A whole parking lot full of vehicles belonging to some group that barely plays isn't a pleasant sight.
3. Re-add a hard limit on properties. 3 of each type? 4? 5? Or implement a soft limit on properties through additional property licenses. If you want to go further, combine both. Back when assets had limits, players put more thought into deciding what vehicles and properties they wanted instead of splashing money everywhere.
4. Additional benefits for regularly-active groups based on the quality of their player interaction, instead of the raw hours played. This would require periodical monitoring and support by staff, but can also be a motivation for groups to up their originality game. It might be something they really want (within limits of server and HQ policy), maybe even negotiated by HQ with qualifying groups on a case-to-case basis.
5. Give more rewards to players for helping newbies at the discretion of HQ (maybe senior admins too), if possible. Like #4, this will be evaluated by the quality of the output, so you don't have regulars running around just directing newbies to get phone, CB radio, GPS, and begging for handouts from HQ after. Logistically speaking this may be hard, but it can make regulars more motivated to further grow our playerbase properly.
6. Maybe reward players for consistently outstanding RPs. The standard on this should be high and it should be clear that these are given out at HQ's discretion, so people don't just spam forums with pictures and ask admins for money / other rewards. Of course, there is the same logistical challenges as #4 and #5.
7. Weaken drug prices. Money is heavily imbalanced in favor of the criminals. It will hurt plenty (including me, who also uses meth to fund my RP activities) but maybe people will start thinking of doing more than cooking all the time. The jokes about meth cooking ("i cook for my mom" "im doing uhh... math, yes math") have become far more creative than the meth process itself, and that's not a good thing.
8. Review and proportionally increase all current money penalties on the server (e.g. dying, getting jailed / busted by cops, court fines, etc.) with players who have loads of money losing more. The more filthy rich the player, the bigger the penalties.
9. Add financial penalties for server tempbans and permbans, also proportional to players' networth. As a safeguard for ban cases where the admins are at fault, give Managers+ / Devs the option to reverse the financial penalty. If it's the admin's fault, the player gets money back. If the player is at fault, they don't. And if it's a rich player who loses a lot, then they should know better (as someone who played long enough to get fithy rich) than to break rules and get banned.
10. Add a better way to analyze and review the cashflow on server if you HQ does not have one already. Observing the economic stats (or even visualizing them somewhere, like panel) can help devs better addresss imbalances. <yeah-science-bitch.gif>
TL;DR:
• More penalties on bans and inactivity
• Reward quality interaction and quality teaching of newbies
• Add more money sinks
• Statistics <yeah-science-bitch.gif>
Even if we may not find the solution we are looking for in this series of discussions (or the next, and the next after that) it is the direction we are going in that counts. Let's do something that matters.
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Reading over this topic and speeding through multiple points made i have a few things to say..
Paydays - A proposal for paydays to be removed, I do agree that the payday command that is used by HQ has little to no need, We have enough generous players and a /sponsor command which does not bring any spawned money into the server, Well /payday does use server money gained from taxes and what not which is basically spawned since the money in the server is astronomical.
Players mindset over money - A lot of people do believe money is everything, I mean i was once one of those players who would do anything for money but from personal experience i can say to those greedy jewball players who will suck anyone off for $50k pixel money it is not worth it not even slightly..
And sure a few players will see i have multiple expensive properties and think im still the same but i bought most of my properties after slowly working my way through roleplay and drugs, It took me around 2 years of hard work to get what i have right now and it was done through having fun, not 24/7 casino playing or no lifing drug fields/TDM.
A little advice to people who feel money is the only form of power in Argonath..
Find a group you get along with, That you can trust, That you feel is fun in your own way and if you can't then just start your own unique roleplaying group and focus on the fun roleplay environment that you can create, MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.
And sure we can make script changes and increase taxes and limit property ownership which will only work to some extent, The real basis of the issue is in the mind of the community, Once people can learn to see that there is more to the game then money and ownership we will really start to make change.
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For most part, if talking about property collection obsession i would suggest - progressive tax system. More properties, bigger taxes or EACH property.
At the moment taxes for most regular properties are like 5k tops (im talking in general ofc cuz there are some expensive properties). But with finding right balance with progressive tax system i believe inactive players will burn thru money if they have too much properties.
I disagree with adding hard limit on property count, because it takes away options for players and that is never good. Making it shitload expensive to have i.e. 10 properties. That's only realistic
Ofc there gon be some1 who will be willing to pay his fortune for his properties, but that is only good, and places like that would be great money sink to stop currently blooming economy inflation, but not so rich player with 1 or 2 properties would have no problem paying for his stuff
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@Grimbeorn @Bengt @Brian I think we have a new candidate for top-elite HQ member.
Please, show me how you would handle situations Stivi.
Here educate yourself: www.online-literature.com/ibsen/enemy-of-the-people/5/ search for "The majority never has right on its side."
Your comment makes no sense, and need I go on about how HQ made good and bad decisions when you weren't even playing SA:MP at all? Nothing against inactivity, but you weren't inactive, you weren't playing at all. Need I go on about HQ and how I would do things differently, or you just gonna swallow this one up and stop making witty comments? Thanks.
Oh and I like how you unintentionally roasted three members of HQ, props for that.
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Right..
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Just do what you love to do.
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For most part, if talking about property collection obsession i would suggest - progressive tax system. More properties, bigger taxes or EACH property.
At the moment taxes for most regular properties are like 5k tops (im talking in general ofc cuz there are some expensive properties). But with finding right balance with progressive tax system i believe inactive players will burn thru money if they have too much properties.
I disagree with adding hard limit on property count, because it takes away options for players and that is never good. Making it shitload expensive to have i.e. 10 properties. That's only realistic
Ofc there gon be some1 who will be willing to pay his fortune for his properties, but that is only good, and places like that would be great money sink to stop currently blooming economy inflation, but not so rich player with 1 or 2 properties would have no problem paying for his stuff
I'm already paying 300k a month for taxes, how are taxes not evenly balanced as it is? You own an expensive property, you already pay a high amount of tax. Most of those properties don't generate any income as it is and if they do, it's barely even half of the cash back.
While you wanting to raise taxes may be a huge money sink, it's not fair, because that just lets the ones who have properties go broke, while others can chill with a 20k apartment just so they can get their chance to buy one of those properties. And after that, we're at the point again where we argue about a money hungry community.
You want a money sink implememnted, it has to be something that immediately affects everyone and not just trying to target out the rich players (it ain't their fault they got a lot of money).
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Boils down to a few things in my opinion based on personality types and such
RP Situation 1:
Selfish RPer A encounters an unselfish/relaxed RPer B who's up for anything
Selfish RPer owns the situation, always makes RPs positive for themself and don't give a fuck about anyone else
Selfish RPer comes out on top in RP situation, relaxed RPer couldn't give a shit
RP Situation 2:
Selfish RPer A encounters selfish RPer B
Selfish RPer A and B both enter the situation wanting to be on top all the time
RPer A and B moan/throw salt
Be a "unselfish" RPer, and if you're unconcerned about the outcome, then it doesn't matter as long as you enjoy it.
OR
Be a selfish RPer and run the risk of making a shitty situation.
Oh, and some relaxed RPers eventually get pissed off that they're shit on by serious RPers.
tl;dr: Be a relaxed/unselfish RPer. At the moment, most people aren't
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All but one of your replies to this topic, @AK47, have had no good points or substance to them. Perhaps instead of telling people to fuck off and being part of the problem mentality that's slashed our playercount in half, you can put your years of experience to good use and contribute something positive to the solution?
Oh, that's not even half of the problem.
I've said it before RS5, I'll say it again: ingame money are incentive to people in poorly thought out economy. To get rid of people who have problems with being afraid over ingame pixels, just remove the money altogether.
If people here are truly to roleplay, then money should be put out of equation for total freedom. Make cars, assets and weapons (whatever else is there to use money for?) spawnable by players. Encourage very strict anti-DM rules on the server.
The playercount will suffer even more, but then you would be comfortable with being left with people who actually care about roleplaying.
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If people here are truly to roleplay, then money should be put out of equation for total freedom.
You're actually kinda right in concept because people only properly open up to all roleplay situations when there isn't virtual dollarinos to be made or lost - i.e. when they're already absolutely loaded and have no risk of running out of money and losing their properties and stuff.
I think some guy said something along those lines like a decade ago regarding the original economy reset:
Everyone will be abusing/exploiting (along with legitimately) making money. But the bottom line is those making money will not be doing the pure roleplay that comes with monetary satisfaction.
"I have 100k, so whats 1k spent on a RP session?"
will become
"I only have 20k now. I don't want to spend this money on RP."
but what did he know he was like 15
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I've said it before RS5, I'll say it again: ingame money are incentive to people in poorly thought out economy. To get rid of people who have problems with being afraid over ingame pixels, just remove the money altogether.
If people here are truly to roleplay, then money should be put out of equation for total freedom. Make cars, assets and weapons (whatever else is there to use money for?) spawnable by players. Encourage very strict anti-DM rules on the server.
The playercount will suffer even more, but then you would be comfortable with being left with people who actually care about roleplaying.
I'm calling for a balance of gameplay that prioritizes player interaction over money-grinding all the time, not the removal of money itself. (Although I'd still survive if it were, since I first joined Argo on a server where IG money was literally meaningless apart from changing text labels)
Money is a gameplay mechanic that can either contribute to or diminish RP, and should be used to support player interaction (and other gameplay mechanics) rather than be the end goal of the game itself. There would always be money-hungry people, but in the past we were able to maintain a server without the overblown hoarding and monopolies of today. (Yes, the inflated economy is also a factor)
people only properly open up to all roleplay situations when there isn't virtual dollarinos to be made or lost - i.e. when they're already absolutely loaded and have no risk of running out of money and losing their properties and stuff.
What I would personally like to see is a balanced gameplay where the priority on player interaction coexists with maintaining challenges that players aspire to achieve (e.g. owning a house, becoming a mafia / yakuza known for their RP skills as much as their money) rather than the extremes of mostly money farming or removing money altogether. As it is, things are imbalanced in favor of the former.
Solving this is much easier said than done, but it's possible with active devs and a cooperative community. At least people are already trying (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=123714.0).
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To respond to the actual thing here.. yes, I agree. Most of the people moneyfarm until they reach plenty of Os and forget the actual meaning of the SAMP universe, to have fun and in this case, RP. It's always been like that and I doubt it'll ever change.
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This is the problem we are facing, not scripts, not economics. RS4 economics were FUBAR, but things worked, people roleplayed, lack of Roleplay is what is killing the server.
RS4's economy was not regulated or controlled by the HQ of that time to an extent that would make the HQ incompetent. How is that fucked up? Plus, in RS4, you had the $ to have fun. If that's not the case now, then the amount of $ per player (or the purchasing power of that $) is lower than it was in RS4.