Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 15, 2014, 07:45:39 pm

Title: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 15, 2014, 07:45:39 pm
Dear all,

I am one of a few chaps who are thinking "These helis and jets... will they ever go away?".
There is almost a constant display of low flying and unneeded Jets and helicopters at the same time, diving in and around the tops of the buildings.

What is going on??
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 15, 2014, 07:51:15 pm
Yes, I also would like to request devs/managers to add Barracks to vehicle dealership, that would be appreciated for us military veterans. Ty.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Alexander_Rijav on July 15, 2014, 07:55:24 pm
Sorry,but I still can't get your point.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 15, 2014, 07:56:47 pm
I see not the appropriateness in a hunter and a hydra flying at 100 ALT, chasing a suspect in a vehicle, both aircrafts within 20 metres of each other, who also lag rammed me.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2014, 07:59:15 pm
We didn't lag ram you, not sure what you are smoking.
Secondly, you are free to go chase a suspect in a shamal in your patriot mate.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 15, 2014, 08:01:24 pm
It would be more awesome to have a few old school Rustlers in the air, so we can find out how it was in WW2!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 15, 2014, 08:02:13 pm
We didn't lag ram you, not sure what you are smoking.
Secondly, you are free to go chase a suspect in a shamal in your patriot mate.

Take the time to read what he said... hydras and hunters have been spotted shooting on land vehicles, several times...
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Stivi on July 15, 2014, 08:02:41 pm
They aren't getting removed anytime soon, let's face it.

What I would love to see changed is some actual rules, instead of guidelines.



It would be more awesome to have a few old school Rustlers in the air, so we can find out how it was in WW2!  :rolleyes:
Way fucking better than a hydra.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2014, 08:02:55 pm
It would be more awesome to have a few old school Rustlers in the air, so we can find out how it was in WW2!  :rolleyes:

We did that one stunt once, was awesome.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2014, 08:04:00 pm
Take the time to read what he said... hydras and hunters have been spotted shooting on land vehicles, several times...

I took my time to read what he said, I suggest you to do so too mate.
I see not the appropriateness in a hunter and a hydra flying at 100 ALT, chasing a suspect in a vehicle, both aircrafts within 20 metres of each other, who also lag rammed me.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 08:06:11 pm
Hunters and Hydras can only be used by high rank officials, such as SWAT Commander, FBI Director, Commissionaire, Chief of Police, and some members of AirDiv.
The Hydra is being used so that the suspect (on soil) can't escape, they use it because the Hunter does not have the command /pilot.

They should not be removed, I have never seen a suspect on soil getting killed from a Heavily Air Vehicle
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Stivi on July 15, 2014, 08:08:50 pm
Hunters and Hydras can only be used by high rank officials, such as SWAT Commander, FBI Director, Commissionaire, Chief of Police, and some members of AirDiv.
The Hydra is being used so that the suspect (on soil) can't escape, they use it because the Hunter does not have the command /pilot.

They should not be removed, I have never seen a suspect on soil getting killed from a Heavily Air Vehicle
I have!
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Pablo Escobar on July 15, 2014, 08:13:12 pm
Hunters and Hydras can only be used by high rank officials, such as SWAT Commander, FBI Director, Commissionaire, Chief of Police, and some members of AirDiv.
The Hydra is being used so that the suspect (on soil) can't escape, they use it because the Hunter does not have the command /pilot.

They should not be removed, I have never seen a suspect on soil getting killed from a Heavily Air Vehicle

I have too.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Rusty on July 15, 2014, 08:22:13 pm
There won't be an end to the use of the Hunter/Hydra the SAPD Division that controls them has clear guidelines on it's usage.  They don't just take them out for a quick spin for a laugh as if they did, CBFasi would be the first to say something about it.  If they are flying low and causing danger ... report to the division leader.  If you got shot while in a ground vehicle then you deserved it, they aren't doing it for no reason and if you have a problem with it there is a place to report SAPD division staff.   
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Cofiliano on July 15, 2014, 08:47:22 pm
There won't be an end to the use of the Hunter/Hydra the SAPD Division that controls them has clear guidelines on it's usage. 
There should be rules about, not guidelines. We are talking about the most dangerous weapon of massive DMing on the server and its not regulated by rules yet guidelines? That's hillarious, and hypocrite in the same time.
They don't just take them out for a quick spin for a laugh as if they did, CBFasi would be the first to say something about it.
Yes they do, and they do it alot.


Or on the other hand, here's a suggestion: All offical groups can spawn RPG, by their leaders, ofc we gonna make a guideliness of usage, and if anyone abuses it, offical group leaders will be the first to say something about it.

And I'm serious about this.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 15, 2014, 08:59:11 pm
Hunters and Hydras has nothing to do versus any vehicle in this game, its clearly overpowered. To take down a shamal you could use rustlers instead of some missiles auto aiming all the way for you, that gives everyone a little challenge.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Regie_West on July 15, 2014, 09:02:15 pm


Or on the other hand, here's a suggestion: All offical groups can spawn RPG, by their leaders, ofc we gonna make a guideliness of usage, and if anyone abuses it, offical group leaders will be the first to say something about it.

And I'm serious about this.

+1 on that
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2014, 09:05:11 pm
Hunters and Hydras has nothing to do versus any vehicle in this game, its clearly overpowered. To take down a shamal you could use rustlers instead of some missiles auto aiming all the way for you, that gives everyone a little challenge.
A shamal goes faster then a rustler.
The lock-on system of a hydra is heavily desynced and it is very easy to avoid the rockets.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: newguy on July 15, 2014, 09:07:06 pm
A shamal goes faster then a rustler.
The lock-on system of a hydra is heavily desynced and it is very easy to avoid the rockets.


They are easily avoidable even if they aren't desynced
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 09:12:18 pm
Being shoot by a hydra or hunter ??? Next time run in a ground vehicle.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Cofiliano on July 15, 2014, 09:18:51 pm
And what should we do next time, when we're not a suspect, yet we're driving a car, and on the end we end up being killed by hydra? And dont say 'report' cause there's no point in giving a report to a guy you wanna report.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 09:27:00 pm
How would you die from a hydra ?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Jeremy. on July 15, 2014, 09:27:48 pm
Being shoot by a hydra or hunter ??? Next time run in a ground vehicle.

ok i want to see irl a group of random suspects being fucked up with a hydra
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 09:30:50 pm
So, AirDivHA is only called in major situations, not 3 suspects who are evading from a traffic stop. About the RL thing, if you are in a plane which you stole and you are causing a threat Air Force has full jurisdiction to take you down when they receive an order from their superiors (NSA, FBI or US Government for example).







Update:
I don't see a hydra or hunter 24/7 looking for suspects. Actually its very rare to spot one.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: KhornateMonkey on July 15, 2014, 09:34:58 pm
ARA could use some hunters to rip off the old road surface
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2014, 09:35:10 pm
I agree that using hydra and hunter on people on the ground shouldn't be allowed whatsoever. I saw it happen like 3 weeks ago for an example.

Situations that it happens kinda often is when a hydra has taken down a airbourn suspect, but the suspect survive by parachuting himself down on the ground and escapes in a vehicle or by foot. The pilot of the hydra/hunter sometimes tend to keep on chasing them.

Using them for taking down airbourn suspects is cool though. Easy to avoid the missiles anyway  ;)
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Jeremy. on July 15, 2014, 09:36:15 pm
So, AirDivHA is only called in major situations, not 3 suspects who are evading from a traffic stop. About the RL thing, if you are in a plane which you stole and you are causing a threat Air Force has full jurisdiction to take you down when they receive an order from their superiors (NSA, FBI or US Government for example).

nope, bullshit. i was talking about "ground vehicles"

i'd like to see you escaping with a car from hydra
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Alexander_Rijav on July 15, 2014, 09:37:00 pm
And I'm serious about this.
Now that's sad.  :neutral2:
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 15, 2014, 09:39:07 pm
A shamal goes faster then a rustler.
The lock-on system of a hydra is heavily desynced and it is very easy to avoid the rockets.
Theres a reason its called air division, training makes it easy to catch faster planes, just like its easy to catch an infernus with a buffalo.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Rusty on July 15, 2014, 09:44:17 pm
There should be rules about, not guidelines. We are talking about the most dangerous weapon of massive DMing on the server and its not regulated by rules yet guidelines? That's hillarious, and hypocrite in the same time.Yes they do, and they do it alot.

Guidelines that cover: When to use, when to fire, when not to fire. 
Don't say it isn't regulated as that's just being a hypocrite, they are regulated by the guidelines set forth.  You say people randomly fly them around, then report to division leader or anyone that retains the rank of Captain and above.  But wait you don't want to report ...

We add the Rustler in place of the Hydra same shit is going to happen, players coming to the forum to have a bubble about it.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 15, 2014, 09:48:22 pm
Situations that it happens kinda often is when a hydra has taken down a airbourn suspect, but the suspect survive by parachuting himself down on the ground and escapes in a vehicle or by foot. The pilot of the hydra/hunter sometimes tend to keep on chasing them.

Using them for taking down airbourn suspects is cool though. Easy to avoid the missiles anyway  ;)

This guys ^
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 09:55:29 pm
nope, bullshit. i was talking about "ground vehicles"

i'd like to see you escaping with a car from hydra

If the hydra is chasing you it means that you did something so it could come to you or something to get his attention.


Update:

It is in the server for a reason, if there is no Heavily Vehicles a suspect could just get a plane and escape, and don't come with the story about "IT IS OVERPOWERED" or "ITS HARD TO ESCAPE" man... if you can not escape a missile, I am sorry to say but your driving sucks, more if you are shoot while you are in a soil vehicle Report it, if you don't want to then just stop moaning in the forums and have some self respect.

Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2014, 09:58:01 pm
If the hydra is chasing you it means that you did somethign so it could come to you or something to get his attention

Or, as in the cases we've described, it's being abused. And we should report it.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: eymas on July 15, 2014, 10:00:23 pm
I agree that using hydra and hunter on people on the ground shouldn't be allowed whatsoever. I saw it happen like 3 weeks ago for an example.

Situations that it happens kinda often is when a hydra has taken down a airbourn suspect, but the suspect survive by parachuting himself down on the ground and escapes in a vehicle or by foot. The pilot of the hydra/hunter sometimes tend to keep on chasing them.

Using them for taking down airbourn suspects is cool though. Easy to avoid the missiles anyway  ;)
The main purpose is indeed to take down airborne suspects. If they switch to a ground vehicle or continue on foot, then we still pursue them in order to update the location to the ground units, our main role is to support the SAPD from the sky after all.

Firing on people on the ground however depends on the situation; if one shoots the hunter/hydra, then we are allowed to retaliate. However, we cannot use it on a group of suspects unless it's a last resort measure, which is VERY rare.

It has been said already that we have guidelines on when and when not to use the heavy air, and these are enforced quite heavily. To the point we only use it for airborne/waterborne suspects, and to tail the suspect if he/she switched to a ground vehicle/on foot.
Another repeated sentence is that you can always report a person if he/she abuses them, even if you believe he does. There's always someone ready to investigate on the case.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 10:02:28 pm
The main purpose is indeed to take down airborne suspects. If they switch to a ground vehicle or continue on foot, then we still pursue them in order to update the location to the ground units, our main role is to support the SAPD from the sky after all.

Firing on people on the ground however depends on the situation; if one shoots the hunter/hydra, then we are allowed to retaliate. However, we cannot use it on a group of suspects unless it's a last resort measure, which is VERY rare.

It has been said already that we have guidelines on when and when not to use the heavy air, and these are enforced quite heavily. To the point we only use it for airborne/waterborne suspects, and to tail the suspect if he/she switched to a ground vehicle/on foot.
Another repeated sentence is that you can always report a person if he/she abuses them, even if you believe he does. There's always someone ready to investigate on the case.

Says everything.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2014, 10:07:42 pm
What is a last resort measure though? I mean, cops can respawn and come back as many times its needed to kill the suspects. I completly understand that if you're shooting on a hydra/hunter, you can suit yourself.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 15, 2014, 10:11:39 pm
if you can not escape a missile, I am sorry to say but your driving sucks
i thought you were not allowed to use hydras/hunters on normal vehicles? only on planes/helis?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 10:18:01 pm
i thought you were not allowed to use hydras/hunters on normal vehicles? only on planes/helis?

Did I spoke about regulations ?
I said if they shoot escape, emagine you are in a hunter/hydra and there are suspect shooting at you hunter/hydra and it is with low HP, will you stay there until you die and let the plane fall and explode.

What is a last resort measure though? I mean, cops can respawn and come back as many times its needed to kill the suspects. I completly understand that if you're shooting on a hydra/hunter, you can suit yourself.

Air Division has a rule which is no returning after death (If you die you can not return by whatever reason).
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2014, 10:22:51 pm

Air Division has a rule which is no returning after death (If you die you can not return by whatever reason).

I mean the regular cops on the ground. How can using missiles on suspects on the ground be a last resort measure if the cops on the ground can come back as many times as needed to kill the suspects?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: eymas on July 15, 2014, 10:24:14 pm
i thought you were not allowed to use hydras/hunters on normal vehicles? only on planes/helis?
It should be avoided, but we've already explained what happens when one decides to drive-by the hunter/hydra, this happened quite a few times.

What is a last resort measure though? I mean, cops can respawn and come back as many times its needed to kill the suspects.
In this interpretation you could consider the "last resort" to be that you use the heavy air on a group of 9 suspects VS 4 cops. And that they've taken too many tries for example.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Rusty on July 15, 2014, 10:25:27 pm
I mean the regular cops on the ground. How can using missiles on suspects on the ground be a last resort measure if the cops on the ground can come back as many times as needed to kill the suspects?

Limited number of cops online who aren't adequate enough to neutralize the threat.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 15, 2014, 10:26:20 pm
I mean the regular cops on the ground. How can using missiles on suspects on the ground be a last resort measure if the cops on the ground can come back as many times as needed to kill the suspects?

Well imagine this:

You are in public place,
this "last resource" would be if Officers AND CIVILIANS are in danger,
The objective of any LEO is to protect the citizens,
If it means to shoot a rocket and kill the suspects (Making sure the civilians stay safe)
It has to be done before you regret it.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2014, 10:26:52 pm
And that they've taken too many tries for example.

Im with you there. They should have been struggeling for quite some time before considering bombing them with missiles.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Antonio. on July 15, 2014, 10:39:56 pm
Apparently Hunters and Hydras are allowed to attack civilians for a new reason called "commissioner's orders".
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Miller786 on July 15, 2014, 10:51:19 pm
Apparently Hunters and Hydras are allowed to attack civilians for a new reason called "commissioner's orders".
dashit are you talkin bout?

----------

Would love to get my hands on a rustler anyways!
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 15, 2014, 10:53:55 pm
Apparently Hunters and Hydras are allowed to attack civilians for a new reason called "commissioner's orders".

I know that is not correct, report via pm the persons stating that and I will deal with them, you will need to provide evidence as at this state I do not believe you...
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 15, 2014, 10:54:47 pm
All I hate about it is the skys are constantly full of these hydras and hunters who fly dangerously and really low, law enforcement should be encouraging good flying. They also seem to be going towards chasing people on the streets too much and this is not good.
they shouldn't use a hydra or a hunter for observations, use a police heli like most police forces would do.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 15, 2014, 11:00:58 pm
It should be avoided, but we've already explained what happens when one decides to drive-by the hunter/hydra, this happened quite a few times.
Of course, but what is a hydra/hunter doing close to the ground where people/cars etc is located? At this situation criminals in a car, military aircraft has nothing with it to do.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2014, 11:05:20 pm
All I hate about it is the skys are constantly full of these hydras and hunters

Constantly full och hydras and hunters? Trust me im in the air 90 percent of my time ingame and it's not often that I see them.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: eymas on July 15, 2014, 11:07:19 pm
they shouldn't use a hydra or a hunter for observations, use a police heli like most police forces would do.
There's quite a difference when the suspect has switched from an aircraft to a car, and you're already right above him. It would be a waste to get a normal helicopter, no?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 15, 2014, 11:20:10 pm
There's quite a difference when the suspect has switched from an aircraft to a car, and you're already right above him. It would be a waste to get a normal helicopter, no?
You have a radio/teamspeak for a reason. Call a normal helicopter/unit on ground. At once they are close, leave and get a helicopter.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 15, 2014, 11:51:02 pm
Only read till the end of page two... but let me bring up something...
Some time ago there was brought up to /p a moan about a land vehicle that was taken out by a hydra/hunter(don't remember and it is not important) ... As I usually tend to do that, I immediatelly asked if they are allowed to and I was told of the full situation and I was also told why they were allowed to do so (note that I don't recall those suspects being airborn beforehand).
So the story ... the suspects were evading in a land vehicle, and heavy airforce vehicle was stalking them(should be a hunter actually... but again I don't remembet)... As their rhl wasn't going down due to the officer driving the hunter(let's name it like that for an examble) being close to them, they decided to obviously open fire to it, just like they would do to any other police vehicle that was chasing them... And because of that people said on /p that the Hunter Pilot got the permition to open fire on their vehicle and take them out... Now how do you explain this??????????????????????
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 15, 2014, 11:53:11 pm
Firing on people on the ground however depends on the situation; if one shoots the hunter/hydra, then we are allowed to retaliate. However, we cannot use it on a group of suspects unless it's a last resort measure, which is VERY rare.
And here it goes... now explain my why this is right... You do not allow them to escape, you are airborn = abled to easily keep up with them, so you leave them no other chance than shooting at you, and because of that you get the right to take them down with your overpowered weaponry?
Once again, why is that right???

Quote
By Fernando
I said if they shoot escape, emagine you are in a hunter/hydra and there are suspect shooting at you hunter/hydra and it is with low HP, will you stay there until you die and let the plane fall and explode.
Well did you expect them to stand and watch you stalk them/disallowing them from escaping? Explain to me how this is not against the server rules? As you are practicly forcing him to RP , to chose to either shoot you and get shot at or remain a suspect till he/they get caught.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Petarda on July 15, 2014, 11:56:44 pm
Now how do you explain this??????????????????????
With a topic lock or forum warn.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 15, 2014, 11:59:07 pm
With a topic lock or forum warn.
Okay how the f@@@ is that related to what I said? Thank you for going completly off-topic...
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 16, 2014, 12:11:37 am
When I was still in the criminal business in RS4, I had no issues with escaping from heavy air without opening fire at them, you should use your brain and not your guns.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 16, 2014, 12:34:24 am
When I was still in the criminal business in RS4, I had no issues with escaping from heavy air without opening fire at them, you should use your brain and not your guns.
First of all I don't recall hydras and hunters going after land vehicles in rs4 ... they were even extremelly rare to be found going after airborn suspects ... I recall having to go on a Dodo DB plan to stop airborn suspects when I was in the police side...

Secondly this has practicly nothing to do with the fact taht they are forcing roleplay...
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Cofiliano on July 16, 2014, 02:08:10 am
Guidelines that cover: When to use, when to fire, when not to fire. 
Don't say it isn't regulated as that's just being a hypocrite, they are regulated by the guidelines set forth.  You say people randomly fly them around, then report to division leader or anyone that retains the rank of Captain and above.  But wait you don't want to report ...

We add the Rustler in place of the Hydra same shit is going to happen, players coming to the forum to have a bubble about it.
It isnt regulated the way it should be regulated, by rules. Guidelines simply isn't enough. In example I cant report a guy in game for misusage of it so admins can check, cause its not a rule yet guidelines. And we're talking about most dangerous weapon that exist on the server.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Devin on July 16, 2014, 02:18:29 am
Another item being complained about?
If people with access to the hunter/hydra abuse it, their access will be revoked if reported. I don't see what else is needed.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Morais on July 16, 2014, 02:25:56 am
Shoot at a police car, expect to be shot back. Shoot an helicopter loaded with miniguns and rockets... you're just dumb. If the regulations come to public be smart and use them against us cops. Duhh.

As for the 1st post, complete nonsense. I do understand the need of multiple topics so people get that you're back. WB anyways.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Simon_sullivan on July 16, 2014, 03:18:15 am
I don't really see the point to the topic I think it is just a way to get airial removed so it would work to the suspects advantage, it gives them a better chance of escaping and I think that is why these players want them removed.

And to me this just seems like a pointless and useless topics, it is just another report which is against the simple fact that suspect escapes should be made easier :neutral2: :cop:
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: LoHi on July 16, 2014, 03:31:52 am
Apparently Hunters and Hydras are allowed to attack civilians for a new reason called "commissioner's orders".

Saw this. Absolutely disgusting. Sadly I lost the video of it, but there were multiple people there.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 16, 2014, 04:02:52 am
I don't really see the point to the topic I think it is just a way to get airial removed so it would work to the suspects advantage, it gives them a better chance of escaping and I think that is why these players want them removed.

And to me this just seems like a pointless and useless topics, it is just another report which is against the simple fact that suspect escapes should be made easier :neutral2: :cop:

>inb4 the officer who made this thread would much rather see Miniguns on /duty to kill all suspects rather than make it easier for them to get away
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Cofiliano on July 16, 2014, 07:22:07 am
Another item being complained about?
If people with access to the hunter/hydra abuse it, their access will be revoked if reported. I don't see what else is needed.
This>
It isnt regulated the way it should be regulated, by rules. Guidelines simply isn't enough. In example I cant report a guy in game for misusage of it so admins can check, cause its not a rule yet guidelines. And we're talking about most dangerous weapon that exist on the server.
So we wont have this:
Apparently Hunters and Hydras are allowed to attack civilians for a new reason called "commissioner's orders".
Saw this. Absolutely disgusting. Sadly I lost the video of it, but there were multiple people there.
I have too.

Also may I add that even that guideline is not announced in public, so people dont even know what should AirDivision do or not, so you can't really know exactly is something they are doing, allowed by guideline or not. Its convenient cause then when ever you report for something that's clearly abuse of it, it can be claimed it was done 'by the guideline' while no one knows what it says in the guidline  :lol:


Its pure nepotism what we're talking about here, nepotism with the most deadliest weapon in the game, just for fun.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Rick. on July 16, 2014, 07:49:12 am
All offical groups can spawn RPG
Yes.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Spike. on July 16, 2014, 08:03:49 am
So you want to remove Over Power guns from heavily vehicles and your idea is to place another "Mass DM weapon" ?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: PulseEffect on July 16, 2014, 08:14:09 am
When I was still in the criminal business in RS4, I had no issues with escaping from heavy air without opening fire at them, you should use your brain and not your guns.

Might not of been in the criminal business but what Brian states is pretty true..
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 16, 2014, 08:16:29 am
I'd like some nepotism once in a while...

True about the guidelines, it seems really fishy to me.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: PulseEffect on July 16, 2014, 08:24:44 am
I'd like some nepotism once in a while...

True about the guidelines, it seems really fishy to me.

As a previous member of Air Division.. I can say that I remember all my runs were either against aircraft or against vehicles posing serious threat to public or seriously close to evasion, noting this was in RS4.

Only once did I breach regulations and I got punished for it. Rest of my runs, all gave grounds for me to open fire.

And these "guidelines" they are literally common sense.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 16, 2014, 08:26:48 am
As a previous member of Air Division.. I can say that I remember all my runs were either against aircraft or against vehicles posing serious threat to public or seriously close to evasion, noting this was in RS4.

Only once did I breach regulations and I got punished for it. Rest of my runs, all gave grounds for me to open fire.

And these "guidelines" they are literally common sense.

Mmm yea, but common sense isn't so common these days.
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106849.new#new

It should be clear cut.

I could state "Well it's common sense to expect to be immediately jailed if you can not pay the $250 right then and there"  or something else, I dunno I'm sleepy, you should catch my drift.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Str8Shoot3r on July 16, 2014, 08:33:55 am
What about not shooting the Hydra/Hunter but shooting their standard issue helicopter prior to?
Does this still merit opening fire with the Hydra/Hunter when the suspects are on foot after their car has exploded for whatever reason?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Cofiliano on July 16, 2014, 08:44:42 am
So you want to remove Over Power guns from heavily vehicles and your idea is to place another "Mass DM weapon" ?
No, either remove both, or placed both with strict rules of usage, so everyone else would have fun with it, or a way to defend themselves from others having fun.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 16, 2014, 08:52:41 am
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=106850.0;viewresults
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: eymas on July 16, 2014, 08:53:14 am
Nothing much would change if one would add "strict rules of usage" since the guidelines are already being heavily enforced. Some examples have been given already; you could easily deduce the most common points based from the information provided in this topic alone.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 16, 2014, 09:05:57 am
Nothing much would change if one would add "strict rules of usage" since the guidelines are already being heavily enforced. Some examples have been given already; you could easily deduce the most common points based from the information provided in this topic alone.

It'd be bad to assume things.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Stivi on July 16, 2014, 09:12:26 am
Air Division has a rule which is no returning after death (If you die you can not return by whatever reason).
A month ago or so.

Easter Basin Gas Station, San Fierro ( close to Naval Ship ). Two groups take down a hunter. Running away, they got shot from the same pilot ( you know who you are.. .) at Downtown San Fierro. Why was this rule not considered ?



First of all I don't recall hydras and hunters going after land vehicles in rs4 ... they were even extremelly rare to be found going after airborn suspects ... I recall having to go on a Dodo DB plan to stop airborn suspects when I was in the police side...

Secondly this has practicly nothing to do with the fact that they are forcing roleplay...
While you don't, I perfectly do.

Las Barrancas, Summer 2013. Me alone running away with my Squalo. Normally a hunter came and destroyed it(, ofc). I swam to the shore and ran where the limo and the walton was parked. I took the limo, the ground units popped the tires. I left it and took the Walton. Ground units had to pass around the limo to be able to shoot me so I had some free time to make a run for it in a Walton. But wait, hunter disabled my vehicle. I was so pro at driving a Walton that ground units couldn't handle my speed, so the hunter pilot had to make a call.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: LoHi on July 16, 2014, 10:27:24 am
What about not shooting the Hydra/Hunter but shooting their standard issue helicopter prior to?
Does this still merit opening fire with the Hydra/Hunter when the suspects are on foot after their car has exploded for whatever reason?

Apparently they can return with a HA vehicle after their "normal" vehicle is shot.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Stivi on July 16, 2014, 10:45:34 am
Apparently they can return with a HA vehicle after their "normal" vehicle is shot.
Yeah. Well Fernando was talking about no return after death. We took the hunter down, he took the hunter again and came. Maybe they can't abide rules, that's why they have guidelines.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Devin on July 16, 2014, 01:28:35 pm
Apparently Hunters and Hydras are allowed to attack civilians for a new reason called "commissioner's orders".

I know that is not correct, report via pm the persons stating that and I will deal with them, you will need to provide evidence as at this state I do not believe you...

People still want to talk nonsense?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JDC on July 16, 2014, 02:49:02 pm
Years later on and the same people still complain about the same old things, no matter what the administration / SAPD will do to keep them under control, short of keeping every hydra/hunter user on a 1-meter leash with 24/7 surveillance.

What people need to learn is that we have a proper escalation procedure that is handled by competent staff. If you can't accept that at all, then keep in mind there's a reason why they are in charge, and not you.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 16, 2014, 05:37:14 pm
Years later on and the same people still complain about the same old things, no matter what the administration / SAPD will do to keep them under control, short of keeping every hydra/hunter user on a 1-meter leash with 24/7 surveillance.

What people need to learn is that we have a proper escalation procedure that is handled by competent staff. If you can't accept that at all, then keep in mind there's a reason why they are in charge, and not you.

And years later on there are still people who don't think authorities can make misstakes.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 16, 2014, 05:52:57 pm
First of all I don't recall hydras and hunters going after land vehicles in rs4 ... they were even extremelly rare to be found going after airborn suspects ... I recall having to go on a Dodo DB plan to stop airborn suspects when I was in the police side...

Secondly this has practicly nothing to do with the fact taht they are forcing roleplay...

Considering what I know about the usage of the Hydra and Hunter in Rs4 I find your comments rather puzzling, they Hydra and Hunter where there at the beginning of RS4, I know, I coded it, and in particular I know how often they got used on land vehicles, often for disablement..


It isnt regulated the way it should be regulated, by rules. Guidelines simply isn't enough. In example I cant report a guy in game for misusage of it so admins can check, cause its not a rule yet guidelines. And we're talking about most dangerous weapon that exist on the server.

They would be ARPD rules if they existed and admins are not supposed to react to RP group rules ...
Admins are there for server rules, and NOT rules that cover ARPD.


A month ago or so.

Easter Basin Gas Station, San Fierro ( close to Naval Ship ). Two groups take down a hunter. Running away, they got shot from the same pilot ( you know who you are.. .) at Downtown San Fierro. Why was this rule not considered ?


While you don't, I perfectly do.

Las Barrancas, Summer 2013. Me alone running away with my Squalo. Normally a hunter came and destroyed it(, ofc). I swam to the shore and ran where the limo and the walton was parked. I took the limo, the ground units popped the tires. I left it and took the Walton. Ground units had to pass around the limo to be able to shoot me so I had some free time to make a run for it in a Walton. But wait, hunter disabled my vehicle. I was so pro at driving a Walton that ground units couldn't handle my speed, so the hunter pilot had to make a call.
Tell me who it was !

Apparently they can return with a HA vehicle after their "normal" vehicle is shot.
If they die they are not allowed to return no matter what vehicle they are/was in unless server numbers are rather low.   (numbers will NOT be given as this would be used against Air Division)..

Raise complaints to me and I will look into them, and some of our pilots have had access to the heavies REMOVED due to abuse in the past.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 16, 2014, 07:27:54 pm
Well I've not been here from the start of rs4 ... I joined in 23rd of July 2011 ...And since then I'd never seen in rs4 such a vehicle to fire missiles on land vehicles... and I did see them rarelly working against airborn suspects... Maybe it was just luck maybe not... this is really not what I care about...

Many people say that this is a complain topic and alot of pretty useless things I'd say...

I do not think that they should be removed, they are there for a reason and I'm not against that. I find 100% the regulation that allows a hunter/hydra pilot to shoot a land vehicle that opens fire on them. And I really don't get why I am the only one finding that extremelly wrong... When the hunter stalks a land vehicle, the suspects in it are unabled to both escape from the hunter but to also lose their wanted level... In conclusion they could remain suspects till they actually get caught or decide to give up.... So their only solution is to stop and open fire on the hunter/hydra just like they would do if it was a police chopper... Now even though they are actually forced to do that you still find it right to get yourselves the right to throw missiles on them for that? Even though some have opposed me on what I'm about to say, I personally would call this forcing Roleplay... As the suspects need to escape and their only way to do so is by shooting on the hunter/hydra and when they do so, the hunter/hydra gets the right to shoot them...

For the ones that don't understand how wrong it is I will make a simple examble...
You are a suspect in your car in an alley that leads to a dead end and has enough space to fit your car and also give you space to exit from it... A police officer is at the exit holding a minigun , which he is not allowed to use unless being shot at or engaged in anyway... The suspect is completly trapped in there so he has to either run him over(against the rules but anyway) or get out of the vehicle and shoot him to get away... By doing so the minigun carrier immediatelly gets the right to shoot back and does so...

Now that you also read my examble... please tell me if I'm seeing something wrong, or tell me why you keep on allowing such a thing... I am not against Hunter/Hydra, I love them, but that particular rule is completly wrong ... And once again every rule that applies to them should be given to the public ... Every rule that applies anywhere should be open for the public to see... just like groups that don't want their members to Scam or Get on PD duty have it on public for people to see and report, same way should AirDiv , and every other group on the server... FBI , SAPD , AD , and w/e else exists...
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 16, 2014, 07:32:52 pm
Well I've not been here from the start of rs4 ... I joined in 23rd of July 2011 ...And since then I'd never seen in rs4 such a vehicle to fire missiles on land vehicles... and I did see them rarelly working against airborn suspects
They have been used loooads of times on NRGs because the cops couldnt catch them :hah: It was used on NRG more than on planes/helis.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 16, 2014, 07:35:31 pm
They have been used loooads of times on NRGs because the cops couldnt catch them :hah: It was used on NRG more than on planes/helis.

No offence but it still doesn't change the way I see it... And anyway let's forget about rs4 ... please focus on what I said about that rs5 rule. ... and post your opinion about it... Am I the only one who sees it that way?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Stivi on July 16, 2014, 10:11:59 pm
@CBF I'm on a phone, but here go the names:

Leon.
 
&

you.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 16, 2014, 11:43:39 pm
Disabled your vehicle, did not kill.. and quite a number of times when the Hunter/Hydra has been used it has returned without firing a single shot ...



However the title of this topic is misleading as it reports constant use, and I know for fact that is not the case ...
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 16, 2014, 11:50:24 pm
Disabled your vehicle, did not kill.. and quite a number of times when the Hunter/Hydra has been used it has returned without firing a single shot ...



However the title of this topic is misleading as it reports constant use, and I know for fact that is not the case ...
Often when the vehicles were "disabled", the players using the vehicle died instantly. I am not saying it is/was under constant use, but was used way to much in situations where it was nowhere needed. I've seen this in both RS4 and RS5, from both when I was a criminal and a cop.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Stivi on July 16, 2014, 11:57:39 pm
Disabled your vehicle, did not kill.. and quite a number of times when the Hunter/Hydra has been used it has returned without firing a single shot ...

Nor did I say you did, CBF. But still disabling a Walton when ground units are on scene, shooting at the suspect, is absurd.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 17, 2014, 12:04:00 am
It is true that there is no "constant use" but there has been overuse... What ever the truth is, should we then create separate topics for each problem we got about it?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: TiMoN on July 17, 2014, 12:10:51 am
If the scripters could utilize 0.3z functions to create a true "disabling" way, that'd be great. How would it function is basic, a hydra fires a rocket at an escaping plane, as soon as the rocket hits(it would register as an RPG/Explosion) the script detects the old HP and sets it back after the damage was taken.(I'm aware that there's no callback for vehicles taking damage, but you can use timers to do it) Then the engine is "forced" to be off for like 5 seconds(?) so the vehicle is actually "disabled".

EDIT: I just realized this isn't possible, as there's no way to detect how the vehicle took damage.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 17, 2014, 12:16:17 am
IT would be cool though!
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Zaila on July 17, 2014, 12:38:29 am
I agree that using hydra and hunter on people on the ground shouldn't be allowed whatsoever. I saw it happen like 3 weeks ago for an example.

I thought SAPD and FBI wasn't allowed to hunt suspects in a ground vehicle (except boats) with a hunter or hydra?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Marcel on July 17, 2014, 12:45:00 am
I thought SAPD and FBI wasn't allowed to hunt suspects in a ground vehicle (except boats) with a hunter or hydra?
Correct. But they do.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2014, 12:47:04 am
I thought SAPD and FBI wasn't allowed to hunt suspects in a ground vehicle (except boats) with a hunter or hydra?
Incorrect, it depends on the situations (can give more information on skype if you wish)
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JackWhite on July 17, 2014, 01:09:17 am
Incorrect, it depends on the situations (can give more information on skype if you wish)
No matter how hard a situation might be, a hydra/hunter is never needed to take a ground vehicle. If FBI/SAPD/SWAT/whoeverthef**k is a cop on the server needs rockets or miniguns i think you could call Ben Samiir to teach them how to stop any vehicle on the ground, without the pole mod as well.  :jackson:

I am now, and have always been against hunters/hydras against ANY ground vehicle, including boats. Give cops a predator instead. :)
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Darxez on July 17, 2014, 01:14:50 am
The same thing over and over.. If you do not wish to be shot, consider giving up for once. HA is only allowed to pull out if the situation seems deemed, even ground. And yes, I know what I talk about as I'm a ex-AD command member.

Dont want to get your ass kicked ? /give up. HA doesn't pull out for a bullshit reasons, and if you think they do, get the guts to report it.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Leon. on July 17, 2014, 01:59:14 am
The same thing over and over.. If you do not wish to be shot, consider giving up for once.
pHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 17, 2014, 03:38:57 am
If the scripters could utilize 0.3z functions to create a true "disabling" way, that'd be great. How would it function is basic, a hydra fires a rocket at an escaping plane, as soon as the rocket hits(it would register as an RPG/Explosion) the script detects the old HP and sets it back after the damage was taken.(I'm aware that there's no callback for vehicles taking damage, but you can use timers to do it) Then the engine is "forced" to be off for like 5 seconds(?) so the vehicle is actually "disabled".

EDIT: I just realized this isn't possible, as there's no way to detect how the vehicle took damage.

I actually have a  test script which detects the firing of the minigun and rockets, however its is not possible to actually disable the weapons yet.

I actually wish there was no need for hydra or hunter to be armed at all, however I have seen too many cops die when being assaulted by many of the crime families here, they know who they are and some are the regular moaners too...

I will see what can be done, but the guidance will not be made public.... you will need to trust me..

Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: .Matthew. on July 17, 2014, 07:56:46 am
pHAHAHAHAHAHA
And when you get killed as suspect because you refuse to give up, then you will blame SAPD of abuse, DM and whatnot.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 17, 2014, 09:17:29 am
Well I've not been here from the start of rs4 ... I joined in 23rd of July 2011 ...And since then I'd never seen in rs4 such a vehicle to fire missiles on land vehicles... and I did see them rarelly working against airborn suspects... Maybe it was just luck maybe not... this is really not what I care about...

Many people say that this is a complain topic and alot of pretty useless things I'd say...

I do not think that they should be removed, they are there for a reason and I'm not against that. I find 100% the regulation that allows a hunter/hydra pilot to shoot a land vehicle that opens fire on them. And I really don't get why I am the only one finding that extremelly wrong... When the hunter stalks a land vehicle, the suspects in it are unabled to both escape from the hunter but to also lose their wanted level... In conclusion they could remain suspects till they actually get caught or decide to give up.... So their only solution is to stop and open fire on the hunter/hydra just like they would do if it was a police chopper... Now even though they are actually forced to do that you still find it right to get yourselves the right to throw missiles on them for that? Even though some have opposed me on what I'm about to say, I personally would call this forcing Roleplay... As the suspects need to escape and their only way to do so is by shooting on the hunter/hydra and when they do so, the hunter/hydra gets the right to shoot them...

For the ones that don't understand how wrong it is I will make a simple examble...
You are a suspect in your car in an alley that leads to a dead end and has enough space to fit your car and also give you space to exit from it... A police officer is at the exit holding a minigun , which he is not allowed to use unless being shot at or engaged in anyway... The suspect is completly trapped in there so he has to either run him over(against the rules but anyway) or get out of the vehicle and shoot him to get away... By doing so the minigun carrier immediatelly gets the right to shoot back and does so...

Now that you also read my examble... please tell me if I'm seeing something wrong, or tell me why you keep on allowing such a thing... I am not against Hunter/Hydra, I love them, but that particular rule is completly wrong ... And once again every rule that applies to them should be given to the public ... Every rule that applies anywhere should be open for the public to see... just like groups that don't want their members to Scam or Get on PD duty have it on public for people to see and report, same way should AirDiv , and every other group on the server... FBI , SAPD , AD , and w/e else exists...
I am expecting an answer here!!!
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JDC on July 17, 2014, 10:30:25 am
And years later on there are still people who don't think authorities can make mistakes.

Everyone makes mistakes, so that's a stupid sentence you chose to put into my mouth.

The reason they're in charge though, is that they could handle it a lot better than most others, who would just fuck up things.

You may as well outright state what you are implying, and say that you think all the authorities who use the HA just fuck around with it.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: TiMoN on July 17, 2014, 11:12:26 am
I actually have a  test script which detects the firing of the minigun and rockets, however its is not possible to actually disable the weapons yet.
It's kinda easy to detect whenever a player presses ctrl, but my suggestion was to disable the attacked vehicle, aka turn off the engine for some time so it wouldn't function. So you would need a function to detect how the vehicle took damage.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Huntsman on July 17, 2014, 11:36:33 am
It's just one of these Monte's troll posts, nothing else but his typical habit to annoy people to death. Can't believe people are actually even discussing this.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on July 17, 2014, 11:41:47 am
It's just one of these Monte's troll posts, nothing else but his typical habit to annoy people to death. Can't believe people are actually even discussing this.

Feeling all lonely up on your high horse?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 17, 2014, 12:23:41 pm
Everyone makes mistakes, so that's a stupid sentence you chose to put into my mouth.

The reason they're in charge though, is that they could handle it a lot better than most others, who would just f**k up things.

As we've seen quite some misstakes being made, I feel that this topic was necessary. Hopefully there will be a even more precisely usage of them now. And hopefully players now understand that its allowed to use hydra/hunter on ground suspects in certain situations when the cops have been struggeling with the group of suspects for a long time.


You may as well outright state what you are implying, and say that you think all the authorities who use the HA just f**k around with it.


As we've seen quite some misstakes being made, I feel that this topic was necessary. Hopefully there will be a even more precisely usage of them now. And hopefully players now understand that its allowed to use hydra/hunter on ground suspects in certain situations when the cops have been struggeling with the group of suspects for a long time.


You come off like an amateur with that last statement. I've never implied that, on the contrary I think they're mostly using hydra/hunters in a good way. But maybe you didn't have time to read the whole topic.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Cofiliano on July 17, 2014, 01:06:30 pm
@CBF, abusage of weapon for Mass Dming shouldnt be regulated by ARPD as you said, yet by the admins. Why? Cause its the most dangerous weapon for mass destruction in the game, this should have been regulated before all other things  by the rules(before regualting carjacking, Dming with combats etc).
Until you guys continue to avoid this, your usage and abusage of this will always be consider as a nepotism of few individuals who are using it what ever the way they want( as proven by many peoples testimony here), even ignoring that guideline you all talk about, not expecting any kind of sanctions for their misusage, just for personal fun.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Acika on July 17, 2014, 01:39:41 pm
Suspects are not terrorists that u can go around having fun shooting rockets on them for personal enjoyment.
I can't stop laughing on statements such as "group of people cant be killed so we need to use auto-locking machines on them", like cops can't return after death and try over and over again.

You should stop ruining fun for other players, both suspects and cops.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: PulseEffect on July 17, 2014, 01:47:58 pm
I am expecting an answer here!!!

So you deny pilots the right to defend themselves when under fire from 3 drive byers with M4? I don't think that's right mate.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: jinjifliaktor on July 17, 2014, 01:55:18 pm
Suspects are not terrorists that u can go around having fun shooting rockets on them for personal enjoyment.
I can't stop laughing on statements such as "group of people cant be killed so we need to use auto-locking machines on them", like cops can't return after death and try over and over again.

You should stop ruining fun for other players, both suspects and cops.
Last time I checked, Argonath wasn't some TDM / Cops & Criminals server.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 17, 2014, 01:57:58 pm
You deny them from escaping so they have to shiot you. If they do then get out of there you dont just throw missiles on them. Dont forget tha they are military vehicles and not police vehicles... And if they have the right to shoot back how will the suspects escape from them???
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Acika on July 17, 2014, 02:13:33 pm
<off-topic nonsense, totally irrelevant to my post>
Excuse me, do i know you ?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2014, 02:20:27 pm
You deny them from escaping so they have to shiot you. If they do then get out of there you dont just throw missiles on them. Dont forget tha they are military vehicles and not police vehicles... And if they have the right to shoot back how will the suspects escape from them???
Its your choice to shoot, not ours.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Pablo Escobar on July 17, 2014, 02:35:09 pm
2.  Argonath gives equal rights to new, experienced and admin players. We do not discriminate between players, and having admin rights or being a long time player does not give any of our players rights to act as better, higher or having more status as another.


This part taken from that link ; http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=38482.0


Unfortunatelly,i cannot see any equals between criminal players and cops.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Alarba on July 17, 2014, 02:41:52 pm
My 2 cents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAAB-OIILQc#ws
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 17, 2014, 02:46:14 pm
Suspects are not terrorists that u can go around having fun shooting rockets on them for personal enjoyment.
I can't stop laughing on statements such as "group of people cant be killed so we need to use auto-locking machines on them", like cops can't return after death and try over and over again.


So your saying that you shoudl be able to kill many ARPD just because they can return???
Your saying we cannot minimise the death to our own officers ?

You should stop ruining fun for other players, both suspects and cops.
Are you not banned at the moment, and have you not been punished many times for breaking those rules that are there to stop players ruining the fun of others..


@CBF, abusage of weapon for Mass Dming shouldnt be regulated by ARPD as you said, yet by the admins. Why? Cause its the most dangerous weapon for mass destruction in the game, this should have been regulated before all other things  by the rules(before regualting carjacking, Dming with combats etc).
Until you guys continue to avoid this, your usage and abusage of this will always be consider as a nepotism of few individuals who are using it what ever the way they want( as proven by many peoples testimony here), even ignoring that guideline you all talk about, not expecting any kind of sanctions for their misusage, just for personal fun.

The guidance in place was agreed with by the server owner, I do not think it can go any higher than that!
The guidance is managed by a server community leader, not just ARPD ...

As for abuse, anyone on the receiving end is going to say that!... (and I take your comments as a significant insult)
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2014, 02:47:49 pm
I do not see what equality to new, veteran players and administrators has to do with this.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: jinjifliaktor on July 17, 2014, 02:50:22 pm
I do not see what equality to new, veteran players and administrators has to do with this.
He said that there is no equality between cops and criminals.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: JDC on July 17, 2014, 03:09:07 pm
He said that there is no equality between cops and criminals.

This is not a TDM or Cops And Robbers gamemode. Cops have the advantage of "power", forcing criminals to be more resourceful, which in turn becomes their advantage. I have in fact seen good criminals outwit cops easily, while many poorer ones just get caught and bitch afterward.



You should stop ruining fun for other players

This is very ironic coming from you, who broke a lot of rules and disrespected a lot of players. The hypocrisy of you to point the finger at CBF when in fact his contribution to this community has far outshined yours, and does not include a load of disrespect and script abuse.



You come off like an amateur with that last statement. I've never implied that, on the contrary I think they're mostly using hydra/hunters in a good way. But maybe you didn't have time to read the whole topic.

If you think they use the HA in a good way, then that's good.

However, this topic itself is a moan against the usage of HA, and another one of Monte's unnecessary and annoying brainchildren. Hence, I can't be bothered to go through 6 more pages of what we could tell would be more people moaning against the use of HA.

Seriously, we all know what this discussion would turn out to be, yet someone just HAD to make a topic for it.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Huntsman on July 17, 2014, 03:19:29 pm
Feeling all lonely up on your high horse?

Not really, just observing the shit-storm you caused and having a good time. Come and join me if you wish, and bring some popcorn, I ran out.

On the topic, which has definitely derailed from its original purpose, what I have to say is this:

I don't support any ARPD entity having access to hunter or hyda like this. They should be given Sea Sparrow, IMO, which can be used as a combat plane when stuff gets hot, and is much less lethal and few shots from that thing is enough to give the suspect a message. I think a seperate entity from the ARPD, perhaps some kind of an airforce, should be given access to hydra and hunter under very strict guidelines and could use them only under very special circumstances.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Devin on July 17, 2014, 03:34:40 pm
A sea sparrow is slower than a Maverick, what's the point of that?  :neutral2:
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2014, 03:40:07 pm
I think a seperate entity from the ARPD, perhaps some kind of an airforce, should be given access to hydra and hunter under very strict guidelines and could use them only under very special circumstances.
Air Division...?
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Huntsman on July 17, 2014, 03:55:06 pm
Air Division...?

As I said... A seperate entity from the ARPD.. Did you even read what I wrote or did you take the first chance you saw to try and be smart?

A sea sparrow is slower than a Maverick, what's the point of that?  :neutral2:
Well, it has a mounted machine gun that could be used instead these hunters and hydra's.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Acika on July 17, 2014, 03:58:40 pm
So your saying that you shoudl be able to kill many ARPD just because they can return???
Your saying we cannot minimise the death to our own officers ?
Are you not banned at the moment, and have you not been punished many times for breaking those rules that are there to stop players ruining the fun of others..
They are returning on their own will, noone is forcing them to return.
Also being "able" to kill someone requires some skill, noone will come to you and tell you to kill him cause he wants to die.

It should be a challenge to show that you have better organization and strategy than Criminal groups.

I can't recall myself flying around bombing people and ruining the game for them. It's a pity that you are using auto-locking vehicles and ruining the fun for people who accepted the challenge(cops). I, as cop, dont accept that i need HA to take someone down, that's humiliating for me.
My ban has nothing to do with this theme, i was banned for trying to prove that some of Corleone members are hacking, which is totally off-topic now.

In RS5 its solved nicely, the more cops you kill, the more money you lose, one more reason why you should not do the things you do.



 
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2014, 04:00:08 pm
As I said... A seperate entity from the ARPD.. Did you even read what I wrote or did you take the first chance you saw to try and be smart?
Well, it has a mounted machine gun that could be used instead these hunters and hydra's.

I've read what you said, but why would you do that. That would mean they commit crimes when they take down a aircraft.
I don't see the issue here. The system is working fine like it is, people just can't understand that if they go airborne they'll be taken down with force if needed.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Acika on July 17, 2014, 04:03:47 pm
I've read what you said, but why would you do that. That would mean they commit crimes when they take down a aircraft.
I don't see the issue here. The system is working fine like it is, people just can't understand that if they go airborne they'll be taken down with force if needed.
You are doing exactly the same as others. Try to solve the problem on another way, with better organization and skills. At the end you will feel better ;)
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 17, 2014, 04:15:12 pm
This is not a TDM or Cops And Robbers gamemode. Cops have the advantage of "power", forcing criminals to be more resourceful, which in turn becomes their advantage. I have in fact seen good criminals outwit cops easily, while many poorer ones just get caught and bitch afterward.



This is very ironic coming from you, who broke a lot of rules and disrespected a lot of players. The hypocrisy of you to point the finger at CBF when in fact his contribution to this community has far outshined yours, and does not include a load of disrespect and script abuse.



If you think they use the HA in a good way, then that's good.

However, this topic itself is a moan against the usage of HA, and another one of Monte's unnecessary and annoying brainchildren. Hence, I can't be bothered to go through 6 more pages of what we could tell would be more people moaning against the use of HA.

Seriously, we all know what this discussion would turn out to be, yet someone just HAD to make a topic for it.

The first post of this topic is kinda rediciolus with the point being made that hydras are flying low or whatever. But the topic turned out to be interesting with discussion about situations when the usage of HA is allowed. In some cases these guidelines has not been followed correctly. And appearantly some of the people (both criminals and HA users) didn't know about them.
If one feels that the guidelines are bad, then he must have the opportunity to discuss it. But you, without reading the whole topic, come here and say it's all moan and the topic is pointless. It's not the first time you're trying to close topics with the word "moan" as explanation.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Devin on July 17, 2014, 05:22:23 pm
i was banned for trying to prove that some of Corleone members are hacking

No, banned for blatantly leading a group of players through Pershing square whilst deathmatching an individual.
If someone is "hacking" then administration will deal with it by themselves.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Huntsman on July 17, 2014, 05:33:58 pm
You are doing exactly the same as others. Try to solve the problem on another way, with better organization and skills. At the end you will feel better ;)

Exactly, I don't think that someone being airborne is a valid enough reason to engage with heavy air. You can use beagle to drive-by with, you can also use seasparrow, if that would be given to you, since that thing can get the job done without rocket rape.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CharlieKasper on July 17, 2014, 05:34:20 pm
I can't recall myself flying around bombing people and ruining the game for them.
Nope, you use your weapons and one line sentence to ruin others' fun. :)
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2014, 05:35:54 pm
Exactly, I don't think that someone being airborne is a valid enough reason to engage with heavy air. You can use beagle to drive-by with, you can also use seasparrow, if that would be given to you, since that thing can get the job done without rocket rape.
If we could do it without the so called 'rocket rape' we would. But it is kind of hard to catch a plane that can go to the maximum height at the maximum speed that is possible, with a plane that goes half that speed and half the height.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Kostas on July 17, 2014, 05:49:42 pm
If we could do it without the so called 'rocket rape' we would. But it is kind of hard to catch a plane that can go to the maximum height at the maximum speed that is possible, with a plane that goes half that speed and half the height.
Hard? You are a whole airforce against a single plane... Slow down the rhl when someone is airborn so that you got enough time to teamwork.... Im not really one of the guys that are against hydras and hunters.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 17, 2014, 05:52:42 pm
Exactly, I don't think that someone being airborne is a valid enough reason to engage with heavy air. You can use beagle to drive-by with, you can also use seasparrow, if that would be given to you, since that thing can get the job done without rocket rape.

LOL ever tried to catch the Shamel in a Beagle ... its impossible !!

And that 'Whole Airforce' is actually often just one pilot with access!  In fact we only have 1 of each, unless you think we so good at it that we count as many more...

I AM looking into this and will be carrying out some investigation work to see what can be done to reduce the use.
Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: Acika on July 17, 2014, 06:13:21 pm
No, banned for blatantly leading a group of players through Pershing square whilst deathmatching an individual.
If someone is "hacking" then administration will deal with it by themselves.
Incorrect. A man who's 1 minute online shouldn't judge a complex situation(s) which lasted 1 hour.

Nope, you use your weapons and one line sentence to ruin others' fun. :)
I know that im a nightmare for people who are first attacking me and my family -without- a single sentence ;)



By the way, please obey from posting off-topic content.

Title: Re: An end to constant use of military jets and helicopters
Post by: CBFasi on July 17, 2014, 06:21:31 pm
Locked, point has been made..
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