Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Cofiliano on April 09, 2015, 02:33:31 pm

Title: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 09, 2015, 02:33:31 pm
Teddy's topic and mostly Philip's reply has inspired me to open a topic that's needed for a long time.

The line between what's Admin job, and what's police job, has been erased in the last 2 years and it only leads to situations where Admins are constantly blocking any attempt of  criminal role play, cause they are basicly illegal.

I'll start from here:
Quote from: Philip_Ancelotti
Back when Ancelotti was active we did many roleplays we had never seen in argonath, and almost everytime we were told to stop. We tried to block roads and roleplay illegally extorting truck drivers for money to pass. The result? Move your cars or i'll ban you. .


Gents its not Admin job to protect Trucker from getting robbed. That's a lawbreak not a rulebreak and you got NO RIGHT to forbid criminals from doing it, yet people get ban for it. That's WHAT CRIMINALS DO. They rob, they do extortions, they claim public area, they claim territory. That's our JOB, and yes its ILLEGAL, yet ITS NOT RULEBREAKING just because its ILLEGAL. And that's why you have the POLICE/FBI/SWAT around. Not Admins who will ban you for doing it!

You're getting pulled out by Mafia? Call your friends truckers to help you! They can't do it, or w/e? Call the police. We all pay them by financing the Government to "Serve and protect" right? They aren't enough? Call the FBI. You want extra security for your convoys?
Hire Security Firms! (Oh did we just gave a huge burst into making Security Firms  roleplays actually alive, actually having something to do? GG)



Public Casinos (non owned Casinos) is the same story.
 You can't extort the dealer cause an admin shows up and says: "You dont own the Casino, move out or ban". No shit Sherlock, of course we don't own it, but we claim it as ours, we claim the territory on which the Casino is to be ours,  we are in TITTLE TO CLAIM (source:Gandalf), and there's NOTHING you can do about it, because that's not a rulebreaking, that's a law breaking!

What can a dealer to? Same as Trucker:
1. Call the Police, not admin.. Cause its a illegal job, not rulebreak, the police should protect you, and  take care of those thugs.
2. Call the FBI, not admins. Cause its the FBI job to go after ORGANIZED CRIMINAL GROUPS, not members of the HQ while trolling with them.
3. Hiring your own personal security. Again, Matute's Granny Protection Agency is full of work and roleplay, gg!

Its a "free market" out there, criminals are competition to each other over profitable businesses, such as Casinos/Truckers/Weed collecting, you can't just show up and say: "Stop or ban ok bye". If a random guys steps in, he triggers the Criminal Syndicates to handle him, one way or the other, and there's nothing you can do about, its the same system how you trigger COPS to start chasing you as soon as you kill someone, you trigger their job by doing such actions, and some people gotta realize and understand this finally!

If you're not a criminal yet a civilian, and you want in some of this businesses, then get ready to take the risk of getting robbed/extortion/and push around by organized criminals, cause that's their job, that's what they had to go through as well when they started, that's what they do to each other,and that's their living, that's what their role and existence is all about, and if you think for a second there's 23252 ways you can solve those situations into your own benefit. (If you wanna be into criminal business, then become one. If you wanna do some legal work as a legal citizens that's usually run by Criminals(Casinos), then hire a security firm or/plus call the police/fbi etc)

And all of this is accepted by Gandalf. You guys remember Gvardia protecting weed spots at SF 2-3 years ago?

This is basically the same thing, and Gandalf allowed that, so don't listen to me, yet listen to the owner of this server, and stop baning people for it! Cause ur ruining the criminal roleplay, or what's left from it, and then all of a sudden "creativity topics".


All of this above is no different then robbing a guy in the middle of street. Soon you guys gonna show up and say:"U cant rob him, this street is not your property, stop or ban". Will you knock it off? You're Admins, not Cops/Judges.


Admins job in this situations is ONLY to make sure that the sides roleplayed it in at least basic manner. Nothing else! You wanna act like a Cop? Go on duty and chase the bad guys, because /ban and /tempban ARE NOT POLICE/JUDGES COMMANDS.
 

PS-Sorry if the topic is messed up a bit,  I was writing it fast, and couldn't check twice before submitting it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Morais on April 09, 2015, 03:12:16 pm
Couldn't agree more. I see both duties getting mixed up sometimes.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: DeeJay on April 09, 2015, 03:15:07 pm
What can a dealer to? Same as Trucker:
1. Call the Police, not admin.. Cause its a illegal job, not rulebreak, the police should protect you, and  take care of those thugs.
2. Call the FBI, not admins. Cause its the FBI job to go after ORGANIZED CRIMINAL GROUPS, not members of the HQ while trolling with them.
3. Hiring your own personal security. Again, Matute's Granny Protection Agency is full of work and roleplay, gg!

This here you wrote is so true, but the cops tend turn it around and try to bust you instead for illegal cargo and exceeding cargo limit. But I agree the admins and cops should know the difference between rulebreaking and lawbreaking.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: taseen11 on April 09, 2015, 03:16:01 pm
Agreed.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Manas on April 09, 2015, 03:21:29 pm
Simply Superb. Can't agree more on this.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Murt on April 09, 2015, 03:22:16 pm
Some strong points mate... feels good that someone is pointing them out. Feels like the dependency weighs on staff nowadays. Matters that should be within roleplay boundaries becomes an administrative matter instead.

The simple sense of today's roleplay within Argonath is limited with prohibitions that discourages roleplay, that's a fact according to me. Just my honest opinion. I don't care if no one really agrees or not. What is not weighing in someone's favour just attempts to make it an administrative matter unfortunately. Although, I'll say this, there has arised an escalation that simple matters that can be solved within roleplay scenarios turns out to events that violates the rules.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: AK47 on April 09, 2015, 03:24:57 pm
this is why people stop roleplaying on argonath
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Denzel. on April 09, 2015, 03:28:32 pm
Totally supporting Cofiliano's statement, I don't see the point of roleplaying and or being in a criminal if you are to make those situations into an admin matter, If these type of things are forbidden, the law enforcements won't be useful anymore, for the cops, you also have noticed that no one actually call 911 anymore, we need to do something about it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Vaeldious on April 09, 2015, 03:33:12 pm
Funny how since early versions of argo have the same plagues of current.

Couldnt agree with you more.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Johan_S on April 09, 2015, 03:35:40 pm
Got banned once for a situation of extortion with reason : Forcing Roleplay (The user do not want to roleplay with you). Since that day i never repeated Extortions. I hope this post will make others think well in order to extend the roleplay factions which criminals should do.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 09, 2015, 03:38:36 pm
I can't dig up through all his posts, but Gandalf was clear on this subject, and it goes something like this

Quote from: Gandalf
You don't wanna roleplay? /q
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Raffaelo1993 on April 09, 2015, 03:42:12 pm
All true Cofi,bravo
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Nexxt on April 09, 2015, 03:46:11 pm
What do you expect? Around like 70 percent of the admins are cops, I do not want to disrespect them but it is pretty clear that they seem to be unaware of where the actual 'line' is between police and administrative duties. I have been saying it for years that the admin interference is way too high within the community, admins should have NO influence on any kind of roleplay, unless the server rules are being broken. In a shitload of cases, I never seen broken server rules but I seen people being told to stop because the admin 'thinks it is inappropriate'.

I haven't been around here for a while and I have no idea what's the current situation in-game, but try to imagine why loads of veterans (that's how they are called, eh?) left the community for other alternatives. A hand full of administrators here are police officers with extended rights, people who punish for not 'liking it personally'. We have server rules, stick to them as everyone has to do it. If a RP is illegal, it should be dealt with by the cops, not the freaking administrative team.

Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on April 09, 2015, 03:47:14 pm
Great topic.

A lot of people simply see /report as a line of defence against a situation that they don't like. Whether it's them getting robbed, or extorted, or anything else that doesn't benefit them.
That isn't what /report is for. Don't use admins to bust you out of roleplays you don't like, work out a better way to deal with them (as Cofi said, call the police, FBI, hire security, get some friends to help you). Lots of inventive ways to stay safe that keep it fun for everyone.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Ivan_MC on April 09, 2015, 03:48:15 pm
Tottaly agreed on this, but it's not always admins foult sometimes the players themselfes make this kind of situation.       
For example:
Me and Dexi went to stop and rob some random trucker.
It was no any diferent rob scenario from any other... we cut the trucker way, we exit the car with the guns in hand and start to ROLEPLAY. And what we get? ASAP /report from the other player "DM" . Why calling them? Call the police. We stoped you, you continued driving, we shot ur tyres. That is NOT dm that is mafia ROLEPLAY !

So my point is: Sometimes its players foult that you get admins interupting our ROLEPLAY and getting that attitude    "Get lost or get ban". It seems like the players are bored of RP so they don't even want to involve in any of them... You might say that i truck all day but i NEVER refused an RolePlay scenario even if i had to die and lose guns+cargo for example.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Fice on April 09, 2015, 04:04:47 pm
Great statement Cofi, I totally agree with you.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Kessu on April 09, 2015, 04:31:46 pm
Me and Dexi went to stop and rob some random trucker.
It was no any diferent rob scenario from any other... we cut the trucker way, we exit the car with the guns in hand and start to ROLEPLAY. And what we get? ASAP /report from the other player "DM" . Why calling them? Call the police. We stoped you, you continued driving, we shot ur tyres. That is NOT dm that is mafia ROLEPLAY !
You got in the way of his money munching, of course he'll report. The greed is unreal these days.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Khm on April 09, 2015, 04:42:59 pm
Couldn't agree more about it, lawbreaking is totally different from rule-breaking.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Marcel on April 09, 2015, 04:46:27 pm
Good topic Cofi. There should be minimal admin involvement in roleplay. The line between police and admin work is too thin (there even is a admin rank in SAPD nowadays?). There should be either guidlines for reducing this or a complete mentality change.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Huntsman on April 09, 2015, 04:58:57 pm
I agree.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: .Diego on April 09, 2015, 05:00:41 pm
Amen, Cofi.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Vladislav on April 09, 2015, 05:02:15 pm
Agreed, unnecessary admin intervention has deterred me from even holding certain kinds of role-plays in the past. Admins are often used as a shield for people who have no willingness to role-play with you. It's because of some of the situations in this topic that groups fear thinking outside the box and we just end up with the same old criminal RP scenarios and are scolded for our "lack of originality."
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Bogomil on April 09, 2015, 05:11:35 pm
Absolutely agree with Cofiliano !
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: saberman on April 09, 2015, 05:17:11 pm
An admin came up with two reasons to defend a trucker from being robbed... got tempbanned in the end.

Absolutely agree with this.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Kostas on April 09, 2015, 05:21:41 pm
A great topic indeed. With a proper statement. Highly supported.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on April 09, 2015, 05:41:32 pm
Staff should only involve themselves in a situation should they see rulebreaking. Just because a player reports another for rulebreaking or PMs the admin saying "omg admin hes dming me" or some bullshit along those lines does not necessarily mean there are rules being broken.
I would assume the staff members look into the situation by spectating for a while before actually getting involved with anything and interfering in a situation.

Whoever said that people roleplaying a roadblock should move or get banned should run around flashing their redname elsewhere, preferably not on RS5.

One trend that has grown is players screaming to admins when someone tries to interact with them because "hes dming me/hes harassing me" and other nonsense. Some simply do not understand how a roleplay server work.
It's about time to start enforcing punishment for false reports again so people will learn one way or another when to report and when to actually think.

The only thing that I have to go against is the one about the casinos, sure you can claim its your territory when you don't own it, but you can not go around killing players for not leaving the casino even if you claim its your territory unless you actually own the property.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 09, 2015, 05:53:46 pm
The only thing that I have to go against is the one about the casinos, sure you can claim its your territory when you don't own it, but you can not go around killing players for not leaving the casino even if you claim its your territory unless you actually own the property.
If you roleplayed it correctly, and you warn those people several times, yes you can, AND SHOULD kill them(ofc not instantly, warning shots, beating up, and as a final measure, killing him), that's what criminals usually do to people who act that way. They don't sit around reading law do they? Also they got all the time in the world to:
1.Move away, or/and
2.Call police, SWAT, FBI, private security, their own mobsters, etc.
3. Fight back for their place into this profitable business.

Being a stubborn clown and not doing any of the things above(with usual screaming /s im just gonna respawn hahahahah, i call admins, u all reported), while surrounded by several criminals, who are into a roleplay with you, aiming at you, and warning you what's gonna happen next, then you deserve to die. And that's criminal roleplay as well, people should deal with it already.

Casinos or dealing weed around GS9 area, doesn't have much difference. And if the Government has a problem with it, I'm sure they'll send their law units on the spot.

On the other hand, when this happen, and admins don't go doing what I'm pointing out they are doing, that will teach those kind of players to roleplay next time properly, not scream for admins when ever the roleplay scenario doesn't suit them.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on April 09, 2015, 06:01:33 pm
One trend that has grown is players screaming to admins when someone tries to interact with them because "hes dming me/hes harassing me" and other nonsense. Some simply do not understand how a roleplay server work.
What's funny is that if these people get attacked in a roleplay but they fight off their attackers successfully, they don't report a thing. They only report it if they lose that fight.

Everyone needs to understand that /report is not a revenge tool if you lose a fight, lose some money, or generally have a roleplay that doesn't go your way. That's not what admins are for.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 06:05:00 pm
It was pleasure reading your point of view and I agree on many you stated above.
But you should understand that citizen's most hated RP scenarios are with criminals since all what happens to them is getting robbed , humiliated or kidnapped by criminals.
Including the fact that when a criminal interact with citizens his hand is always on the gun's trigger waiting for just 1 wrong word comming out from the citizen so he can shoot him.
You should always think what made the citizen report you? he doesn't want to roleplay or he doesn't want to get robbed for the 20th time at the same day?
I suggest you start developing new roleplay scenario where citizens will actually have fun getting robbed and humiliated, when you make the roleplay different, interesting.. the player would have fun even though he is being robbed and pushed and kicked and killed and kidnapped.
as for the Admins matter, I agree.
The staff shouldn't interrupt any roleplay scene unless it is getting out of control and rules are being broken...
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 06:12:15 pm
On the other hand, when this happen, and admins don't go doing what I'm point out they are doing, that will teach those kind of players to roleplay next time properly, not scream for admins when ever the roleplay scenario doesn't suit them.
Killing is only allowed under RP circumstances you can't just kill someone to teach him a lesson thats against the rules... You're not responsible for punishing a player for a rulebreak (in this case it is "Ignoring RP") thats admins duty so instead of shooting the guys report him for ignoring RP and you won't get punished for DMing
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on April 09, 2015, 06:16:42 pm
Including the fact that when a criminal interact with citizens his hand is always on the gun's trigger waiting for just 1 wrong word comming out from the citizen so he can shoot him.
That's not true though. Why would a criminal want to shoot a guy and get wanted, then have to escape. Doesn't make any sense.

You should always think what made the citizen report you? he doesn't want to roleplay or he doesn't want to get robbed for the 20th time at the same day?
Neither of those are valid reasons for /report, though. If you really don't want to be involved, you can usually work a way out of the RP quite quickly, or simply PM the guy explaining why you don't want to be involved. In the event that you literally don't have time to be involved, tell them that. Nobody will kidnap someone who is going to /q for dinner in 2 minutes.

instead of shooting the guys report him for ignoring RP and you won't get punished for DMing

No, no, no! This is the exact thing the topic was about. Don't be so flippant with your use of the /report.
Hell, "ignoring RP" isn't even against the rules.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: DeeJay on April 09, 2015, 06:27:20 pm
Actually it is Panda, you have to rp nowadays on SA:MP. Not like we had before
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 06:30:32 pm
That's not true though. Why would a criminal want to shoot a guy and get wanted, then have to escape. Doesn't make any sense.
Many criminals do kill just to get wanted, I had many cases where criminals DMed someone just to go 4 wanted guys in a car unstoppable waiting for SWAT and FBI to come.

Neither of those are valid reasons for /report, though. If you really don't want to be involved, you can usually work a way out of the RP quite quickly, or simply PM the guy explaining why you don't want to be involved. In the event that you literally don't have time to be involved, tell them that. Nobody will kidnap someone who is going to /q for dinner in 2 minutes.
 
No you're wrong you're obligated to RP in every RP scene the only way to escape RP is to Roleplay your way out of it shortly (ofcourse unless the player have to go).
Admins can't watch all players online at the same time, they do try to do the maximum amount of players at the same time... so when they get a report of DMing they start spectating after the report has been delivered, so we don't know if the report is valid or not

No, no, no! This is the exact thing the topic was about. Don't be so flippant with your use of the /report.
Hell, "ignoring RP" isn't even against the rules.
Well sorry to blast your bubble you're not allowed to kill citizens to "teach them a lesson"
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: LoHi on April 09, 2015, 06:31:24 pm
It was pleasure reading your point of view and I agree on many you stated above.
But you should understand that citizen's most hated RP scenarios are with criminals since all what happens to them is getting robbed , humiliated or kidnapped by criminals.
Including the fact that when a criminal interact with citizens his hand is always on the gun's trigger waiting for just 1 wrong word comming out from the citizen so he can shoot him.
You should always think what made the citizen report you? he doesn't want to roleplay or he doesn't want to get robbed for the 20th time at the same day?
I suggest you start developing new roleplay scenario where citizens will actually have fun getting robbed and humiliated, when you make the roleplay different, interesting.. the player would have fun even though he is being robbed and pushed and kicked and killed and kidnapped.
as for the Admins matter, I agree.
The staff shouldn't interrupt any roleplay scene unless it is getting out of control and rules are being broken...

Yes. For the love of god, do something else than yell at someone to stop (or you will shoot!). This is just thinly veiled DMing, and is certainly a fair reason to report someone. The Ancelotti RP of creating a roadblock sounds wonderful to me - you don't need to actually kill anyone - just shoot their tires and tell them to get lost. Haha. If they can. Truckers can then communicate with each other to avoid the road block - just like how they deal with police checkpoints.

Tottaly agreed on this, but it's not always admins foult sometimes the players themselfes make this kind of situation.       
For example:
Me and Dexi went to stop and rob some random trucker.
It was no any diferent rob scenario from any other... we cut the trucker way, we exit the car with the guns in hand and start to ROLEPLAY. And what we get? ASAP /report from the other player "DM" . Why calling them? Call the police. We stoped you, you continued driving, we shot ur tyres. That is NOT dm that is mafia ROLEPLAY !

So my point is: Sometimes its players foult that you get admins interupting our ROLEPLAY and getting that attitude    "Get lost or get ban". It seems like the players are bored of RP so they don't even want to involve in any of them... You might say that i truck all day but i NEVER refused an RolePlay scenario even if i had to die and lose guns+cargo for example.

Every hour someone tries to rob me when I'm trucking. Every time it's the same, 3 or 4 people in a car, fully armed, shouting "STOP!", and if I don't, they just shoot me. I don't usually mind this, as I can just call 911 and have some roleplay with the cops (shoutout to FBI and normal police officers for their great roleplay a week or so back!), without being killed. Plus I get someone chasing me, which is always fun. :D

That's not true though. Why would a criminal want to shoot a guy and get wanted, then have to escape. Doesn't make any sense.

Because what else would they do? Criminals don't seem to know anything else. Get suspected, kill some cops, die, repeat. It is fun, honestly.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on April 09, 2015, 06:32:29 pm
Got banned once for a situation of extortion with reason : Forcing Roleplay (The user do not want to roleplay with you). Since that day i never repeated Extortions. I hope this post will make others think well in order to extend the roleplay factions which criminals should do.
Forcing roleplay is another rule that is misunderstood even by a lot of members of the administrations. The rule "no forcing roleplay" doesn't mean that it gives you the right to not interact/roleplay with others who are trying to interact with you. You're on a roleplay server and if someone tries interacting with you then you're entitled to do so as well. What the rule really protects against is for example if a group/mafia kidnaps you, they don't have the right nor can they force you to, let's say, keep you locked in a room for days. In these cases you can report the player.

If you are about to get kidnapped and you don't want that to happen, that doesn't give you the write to spam "/L [russian accent] I don't want rp!1!1" and then spam /report about how you're being forced to roleplay. If you don't want to get kidnapped, then you try RPing an escape.


The only thing that I have to go against is the one about the casinos, sure you can claim its your territory when you don't own it, but you can not go around killing players for not leaving the casino even if you claim its your territory unless you actually own the property.
Owning a casino or any other property also doesn't give you the right to kill someone, unless of course you have a good reason for it. Yesterday four or five Gvardia members were in Four Dragons Casino, waiting for gamblers to come. Some guy comes in and starts being a dealer one table next to ours, obviously trying to steal customers. We tell him to leave SEVERAL times, but of course he doesn't because "we don't own the property". We give him another option: Pay 25 percent of the earnings or he will be forced to leave, of course he disagrees again and disrespects us, so he got dropped and there was a perfect reason behind it. You don't disrespect a ruthless mafia especially in their territory, you're bound to get whacked and everyone should be aware of that. Anyways, apart from that, what I really didn't like is that the player came back 2 minutes after he died and continued gambling at the SAME spot he got killed at. To my understanding, this is returning and I believe you're not allowed to return to the place you were killed, especially if the players that killed you are still there. He gets /report'd and the one moderator online claims that "everyone is allowed to use the casino because it's not owned". A owned property is a role-play thing and returning after death is rule break, I don't know how these two things are able to be defended by one another...

Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 06:36:17 pm
Because what else would they do? Criminals don't seem to know anything else. Get suspected, kill some cops, die, repeat. It is fun, honestly.

LoHi I know you want to express your opinion, just don't provoke others
Criminals sure have the potential to lead the most awesome RPs ingame...
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: LoHi on April 09, 2015, 06:41:32 pm
Forcing roleplay is another rule that is misunderstood even by a lot of members of the administrations. The rule "no forcing roleplay" doesn't mean that it gives you the right to not interact/roleplay with others who are trying to interact with you. You're on a roleplay server and if someone tries interacting with you then you're entitled to do so as well. What the rule really protects against is for example if a group/mafia kidnaps you, they don't have the right nor can they force you to, let's say, keep you locked in a room for days. In these cases you can report the player.

I think this also includes forcing someone to give them money - it can be roleplayed, but a player can decide not to give you actual money (or at least large sums of it). It may have been a rule against robbing new players, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

LoHi I know you want to express your opinion, just don't provoke others
Criminals sure have the potential to lead the most awesome RPs ingame...

I did not mean to provoke anyone, if I did, I apologize. Honestly though, last time I had proper criminal RP was back when NitrOx was an active player.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Brian on April 09, 2015, 06:45:40 pm
Forcing role-play is forcing someone in to a certain role or situation, for example
Antonio is being pulled over by an officer
'Officer_Ale: Alé, mr Antonio, I am officer Ale, I'd like to see your license and registration'
'Antonio complies and gives his stuff'
'Officer_Ale: Okey, I found drugs on you, you will be arrested'
'Officer Ale suspects antonio for smuggling of drugs without any form of interaction from antonio'
Antonio is forced in to the role as drug smuggler while he is a law abiding citizen.

That is forcing role-play, for some who might not have understood.

As for the other points. An admin should never stop someone from interacting with other people in a role-play point of view. Blocking the road, asking for taxes, etc, etc, etc. Yet players should also not shoot someone because they do not agree with someone, or claim something as theirs. I do not mind if the players would role-play this properly. For example, coming with a group of 'fat' mafia members and beating the guy up, dragging him out of the building and making sure he doesn't get in. That way you show off an image, just shooting someone in his face just gets them pissed off and makes them return to the situation, even if this is not allowed.

PS: This is not aimed at anyone, it is just an example.

Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Everett on April 09, 2015, 06:48:57 pm
What I find funny is, after SOME cops pull you over (trying to avoid generalisation since they don't all do it, point is they can), whatever they say doesn't matter, because the gist of it is "Pay a $250 ticket or I'll kill you". Somehow this isn't forcing RP, which implies a badge has more power to force RP than a gun does. I fail to see a distinction between that scenario, and an Ancelotti roadblock other than a blue name above the guy's head.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: LoHi on April 09, 2015, 06:51:48 pm
What I find funny is, after SOME cops pull you over (trying to avoid generalisation since they don't all do it, point is they can), whatever they say doesn't matter, because the gist of it is "Pay a $250 ticket or I'll kill you". Somehow this isn't forcing RP, which implies a badge has more power to force RP than a gun does. I fail to see a distinction between that scenario, and an Ancelotti roadblock other than a blue name above the guy's head.

Or you could go to the station, get an investigation and possibly even get the officer to trouble (by reporting them for false ticket or suspection on SAPD forums). :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Brian on April 09, 2015, 06:54:44 pm
What I find funny is, after SOME cops pull you over (trying to avoid generalisation since they don't all do it, point is they can), whatever they say doesn't matter, because the gist of it is "Pay a $250 ticket or I'll kill you". Somehow this isn't forcing RP, which implies a badge has more power to force RP than a gun does. I fail to see a distinction between that scenario, and an Ancelotti roadblock other than a blue name above the guy's head.

I barely see a cop give $250 tickets, unless they're new usually. I always give fines on the amount of 'evasion', the driving attitude and the aproximate speed, $1 per KM/h they drove too fast (I guess this measuering with my own speed and remove 10 from my guessed number). Driving attitude is, did you hit any public items, trafic pole, light poles, benches, drove on the side walk. and how long you have evaded, usually this does not go higher then $130, yet most of the times. I ask them to remove their keys from their car, put them on their roof/ seat next to them, and they still /engine and drive away, ending up being suspected and a gun fight.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on April 09, 2015, 06:55:20 pm
Or you could go to the station, get an investigation and possibly even get the officer to trouble (by reporting them for false ticket or suspection on SAPD forums). :rolleyes:
You could also cut a deal with Ancelotti. As you see, there is always another option when roleplaying instead of reporting the player straight just because you don't like it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Manas on April 09, 2015, 06:55:34 pm
I suggest you start developing new roleplay scenario where citizens will actually have fun getting robbed and humiliated,

No, even in the most creative scenarios 98% of citizens wont enjoy it. And enjoying it defeats the purpose of robbing/extortion .
Citizens will enjoy when we tell them in OOC or pm that we wont take real money, wont kill him
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Ivan_MC on April 09, 2015, 06:58:32 pm

One trend that has grown is players screaming to admins when someone tries to interact with them because "hes dming me/hes harassing me" and other nonsense. Some simply do not understand how a roleplay server work.
It's about time to start enforcing punishment for false reports again so people will learn one way or another when to report and when to actually think.


This.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 07:04:11 pm
No, even in the most creative scenarios 98% of citizens wont enjoy it. And enjoying it defeats the purpose of robbing/extortion .
Citizens will enjoy when we tell them in OOC or pm that we wont take real money, wont kill him
No, you're wrong.
when the criminal start caring for the roleplay more than they do for the money . The citizen will start enjoying a nice quality RP scene and would probably happily giveout that money to the robber.. but since all the rob scenarios on Argonath are the same, there is nothing to enjoy about it...
it all start with "Stop your car!"
and ends with" /send or someone killed"
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Everett on April 09, 2015, 07:09:14 pm
Or you could go to the station, get an investigation and possibly even get the officer to trouble (by reporting them for false ticket or suspection on SAPD forums). :rolleyes:
Only way I can prove my innocence is if I record every second of my gameplay, or the accusing cop acts like a total retard during the investigation.

Just wanted to respond, don't mean to derail the topic.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 09, 2015, 07:10:31 pm
Or you could go to the station, get an investigation and possibly even get the officer to trouble (by reporting them for false ticket or suspection on SAPD forums). :rolleyes:

Yeah but when you go to LSPD 99.99% your still given a guilty verdict by the Police because no one believes a criminal anyways. Then who has the time to take "RP" evidence to SAPD forums for one retard who probably doesnt even give a fuck about a SAPD career or getting copbanned or a newbie who probably may not even come back to the server when he /q's ?
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 09, 2015, 07:14:16 pm
it all start with "Stop your car!"
How else would you ask someone to stop ? oh, sometimes you also get warned for "you're not a cop to pull over people".

and ends with" /send or someone killed"
That's a rulebreak.



Couldn't agree more with this topic. Something needs to be done.  :app:
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Playa on April 09, 2015, 07:16:14 pm
Outstanding points, Cofi!
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 09, 2015, 07:20:09 pm
No, you're wrong.
when the criminal start caring for the roleplay more than they do for the money . The citizen will start enjoying a nice quality RP scene and would probably happily giveout that money to the robber.. but since all the rob scenarios on Argonath are the same, there is nothing to enjoy about it...
it all start with "Stop your car!"
and ends with" /send or someone killed"

Or Civilians most times assume is the same so they report before any interaction. Y'all are in denial and are total blind because you role play on the other side of the fence. Most times criminals are reported just because they are criminals. These days as soon as a crime is committed you get instantly frozen by and admin before even starting to evade and by the time your done explaining you are already surrounding by the boys with blue names.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: LoHi on April 09, 2015, 07:22:13 pm
Only way I can prove my innocence is if I record every second of my gameplay, or the accusing cop acts like a total retard during the investigation.

Just wanted to respond, don't mean to derail the topic.

I guess I should make a guide on how to do that, it's very easy. :rolleyes:


Yeah but when you go to LSPD 99.99% your still given a guilty verdict by the Police because no one believes a criminal anyways. Then who has the time to take "RP" evidence to SAPD forums for one retard who probably doesnt even give a fuck about a SAPD career or getting copbanned or a newbie who probably may not even come back to the server when he /q's ?

Not even ONCE have I gone to jail after being investigated by the police (and I have been playing since 2007 - so quite a few times by now). You may be terrible at defending your position, or you did commit a crime if you do end up jailed.

Citizens will enjoy when we tell them in OOC or pm that we wont take real money, wont kill him

I hope you don't mind me highlighting this. It tells us that you are there to RP, not to get a few dollars or suspection status. :)
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Everett on April 09, 2015, 07:36:19 pm
I guess I should make a guide on how to do that, it's very easy. :rolleyes:
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2j1ww3s.jpg)

Please clarify what you're getting at, so I can shape a response.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 08:10:02 pm
-How else would you ask someone to stop ? oh, sometimes you also get warned for "you're not a cop to pull over people".

When you answer my quotes please elaborate so I can understand what you mean...
You can ask someone to stop by using /me to express signs this usually takes time for drivers to type and drive so the Co- Driver should do it... or try to slow down the car till it stop because if we keep having the same routine of STOP THE CAR trust me no one would like to roleplay with such criminals...

didn't understand what you meant with: That's a rulebreak... well it is a rulebreak you stating a fact or trying to tell me something ?

Or Civilians most times assume is the same so they report before any interaction. Y'all are in denial and are total blind because you role play on the other side of the fence. Most times criminals are reported just because they are criminals. These days as soon as a crime is committed you get instantly frozen by and admin before even starting to evade and by the time your done explaining you are already surrounding by the boys with blue names.
You keep trying to look for excuses, I am stating fact not expressing possible option I have participated in many many robberies and kindaps at the victim side and I always face the same routine... this isn't fun.
Now you might not agree with me and claim I am making this up to make you look bad... but you know exactly how many of the kindaps and robberies are like this.
We are not blinded or in denial...We are all tottal aware of the case since I think everyone who replied under this topic did participate in a kindap or a robbery scene as the kidnapper or a robber... now for the rest of the stuff you said, I think I already answered that before... as I said I agreed with you guys admins shouldn't interrupt a roleplay unless it is getting out of control and rules being broken...


Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: LoHi on April 09, 2015, 08:28:47 pm
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2j1ww3s.jpg)

Please clarify what you're getting at, so I can shape a response.

I'm just saying that recording your gameplay is easy, inexpensive (resource wise) and solves a lot of problems. It even gives you a chance to sue people if you roleplay it. But a guide specific to SA:MP might make it easy enough for people to roam around with it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 09, 2015, 08:32:29 pm
When you answer my quotes please elaborate so I can understand what you mean...
You can ask someone to stop by using /me to express signs this usually takes time for drivers to type and drive so the Co- Driver should do it... or try to slow down the car till it stop because if we keep having the same routine of STOP THE CAR trust me no one would like to roleplay with such criminals...

didn't understand what you meant with: That's a rulebreak... well it is a rulebreak you stating a fact or trying to tell me something ?
Reported for ramming. Of course there are ways, but that's that one gets the job done.  :lol:

It's a rulebreak, as in, really a rulebreak. Like forcing to /gu.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 08:38:44 pm
Reported for ramming. Of course there are ways, but that's that one gets the job done.  :lol:

It's a rulebreak, as in, really a rulebreak. Like forcing to /gu.
To be honest I lost you..
none of what I mentioned is a rulebreak... you always try to park the car infront of the vehicle and not PIT it to the side or ram it with all your power... you can turn anything good into a rulebreak if you don't really do it right...
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Huntsman on April 09, 2015, 08:41:40 pm
This started as a topic with a great point...
... got derailed into yet another cops vs criminals shitfest...
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 09, 2015, 08:45:21 pm
To be honest I lost you..
none of what I mentioned is a rulebreak... you always try to park the car infront of the vehicle and not PIT it to the side or ram it with all your power... you can turn anything good into a rulebreak if you don't really do it right...
/send or someone killed
THIS. IS. A. RULE BREAK. This can be reported and it's valid. The point of the topic is... Go read it again.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 09, 2015, 08:51:32 pm
THIS. IS. A. RULE BREAK. This can be reported and it's valid. The point of the topic is... Go read it again.
... Dude You stating facts again I didn't disagree with you but sadly thats what happen each kidnap robbery RP ends with paying the guys or getting killed...

This started as a topic with a great point...
... got derailed into yet another cops vs criminals shitfest...
Because you claim it is just admins fault why criminals don't roleplay anymore... when it is criminals fault too why they don't change the routine RPs of kidnapping and robbing...
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Tiny on April 09, 2015, 08:53:03 pm
This started as a topic with a great point...
... got derailed into yet another cops vs criminals shitfest...

Not every discussion is an arguement with no sense. Discussing solves things and can prevent problems from appearing, let people talk.



About the roleplay thing I believe that the intention of both sides decides where the roleplay will lead. If both sides are doing a roleplay to have fun, I doubt there will be any problems, even if it is a war between criminal groups. If the roleplay is not used as an excuse to -for example- DM each other just to be ok with the rules, then it won't end fine.

Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Kessu on April 09, 2015, 08:59:52 pm
This started as a topic with a great point...
... got derailed into yet another cops vs criminals shitfest...
Your posts are on the fast tracks of becoming a total shitfest.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Huntsman on April 09, 2015, 09:18:03 pm
Your posts are on the fast tracks of becoming a total shitfest.

As if you sticking your nose into bussiness that shouldn't concern you is any better. Shove your personal disatisfaction with me up your area where sun doesn't shine and keep away. Thanks.

Not every discussion is an arguement with no sense. Discussing solves things and can prevent problems from appearing, let people talk

Exactly as I said, the original purpose of the topic made sense and had engaged a great discussion until it became cops vs criminals argument again.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cyril on April 09, 2015, 09:25:24 pm
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/1364/7xg.gif)
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on April 09, 2015, 09:28:38 pm
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/1364/7xg.gif)

LOL
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: AK47 on April 09, 2015, 09:29:48 pm


shouldn't you make a statement instead of encouraging such posts?
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cyril on April 09, 2015, 09:32:48 pm
shouldn't you make a statement instead of encouraging such posts?

Statement about what? I'm not their babysitter.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on April 09, 2015, 09:35:47 pm
As if you sticking your nose into bussiness that shouldn't concern you is any better. Shove your personal disatisfaction with me up your area where sun doesn't shine and keep away. Thanks.

Enough with your attitude towards those you dislike or don't agree with. Thanks.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: CBFasi on April 09, 2015, 09:36:09 pm
To my understanding, this is returning and I believe you're not allowed to return to the place you were killed, especially if the players that killed you are still there.

I think your understanding is rather off .. no return refers to the situation, and is particularly aimed at those who return to help buddies!

In the case you refer to, that player is allowed to return, that player is not involving you, if you want to get involved, thats not them but you ..



HOWEVER

I do agree that admins are getting involved too much in what should be non admin work but rp work.

BUT .. as others have indicated is not actually the admin's fault, in fact the admin staff would be quite happy to have little to do other then deal with the hackers.

When a player /reports, the admins react and works on what they have been told and what they can see.

FAR TOO MANY players are using /report as means of moaning that they didn't get what they wanted out of a situation, either loosing a fight, walking in front of a vehicle, rp just not going there way.. etc

If an admin has decided not to react because they think its not a rule problem that player then moans and complains, sometimes even sending off the email...   

Admins are moaned about doign things, and not doign things... maybe its time to work out WHY we get through so many admins when players treat us as slaves to do their bidding when things dont go there way.

Sorry but I have been here long enough to see many of the tricks that players will use to make something look like a rulebreak just to get something their way, including trying different admins as we all have differing approaches!

Get a backbone kiddies (relatively speaking), support your admins, stop using them to win your fight and maybe they will not join in the fights!
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on April 09, 2015, 09:47:28 pm
Statement about what? I'm not their babysitter.
You're also not a comedian, so stop always trying to be a troll in these kind of topics in attempt to derail them.

I think your understanding is rather off .. no return refers to the situation, and is particularly aimed at those who return to help buddies!

In the case you refer to, that player is allowed to return, that player is not involving you, if you want to get involved, thats not them but you ..
Players have been punished for what I stated. In RS4 I was once killed at a weed spot by police, and as I think about it, one of the police officers was Cyril. After I died I went to get my weed but I was TP'd away from the spot and was told that I couldn't return. In the meantime cops were just taking the drugs.

In the situation I stated, the person was killed for being a dealer in the casino and not complying to our demands. Just after he died he came back and continued doing the same thing he was killed for, which means he's returning to the same RP scenario.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Teddy on April 09, 2015, 09:56:33 pm
An interesting perspective Cofi. I can admit I have seen the duties mismatched a few times. I do think it happens on both sides of the table; such as SAPD members suspecting for things such as ramming... hell I even saw a cop suspect someone for hacking.

The robbing part needs to be more defined by a standard. Running up to someone and shouting something a few times and then shooting isn't RP. We need to see more complex RPs unfold. Criminals don't want police involvement in reality where was in Argonath it seems all anyone wants is police involvement. I think all sides of the table actually need to consider their own piece of the pie and understand exactly where their slice ends.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 09, 2015, 10:19:43 pm
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/1364/7xg.gif)
If you would be able to do something else than this, oh boy things would be different.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Vladislav on April 09, 2015, 10:27:30 pm

Really don't see why these pictures have to be posted in every discussion lol.



Anyway, yeah i'd rather have a robbery scenario where cops don't show up and we get what we want. However, should the person victim call the cops it's fine, the role-play can still continue with a police presence (albeit, this would change the outcome.) After admin intervention however, there's usually little room to continue as someone's either been punished or both/either sides are too pissed off with each other to continue.

Regrettably, a lot of the time when some cops arrive to the scene, they're already thinking of the next suspect they're going to catch so they'd rather cuff you and have you in a cell as quick as possible rather than role-play with you. I'm sure it's in scenarios like this where criminals decide they'd rather shoot their way out than go through the same old boring process of being investigated/cuffed and jailed. It's as if some players are following a script, they have no willingness to adapt to the scenario at all and would sooner have an admin step in than try to roleplay their way out of it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: RafaDK on April 10, 2015, 12:34:47 am
This is the current line between Cop/Admin duty: None.

Like CBF said, the player base within the server, at the moment, sees /report as a solution to turn the current situation into their own advantage.

This is not just a case that cycles around cops; It's the community as a whole.

Citizens / Criminals / Cops see administrative intervention as a mean to get away from scenarios they don't find appropriate for themselves.

Like Cofi pointed out, citizens use Deathmatch as an excuse to get an admin intervention even before anything happens, trying to be more specific, a criminal enters your casino/blocks your away/; helding a gun close enough to you and a report is instantly made, even if the admin doesn't take any action he will still look into it stalling the RP, PM'ing both parties to ask questions, when a simple /spectate ID(?) would suffice. Usually, the RP with the admin PM'ing will be delayed enough for a patrol unit show up, just in time. But usually the admin takes action by shutting off the current scenario, disregarding completely Roleplay.

Criminals? Well, this has much to be added into it, but I'll keep it simply and I won't mention names, but taking an example of today I'll topic what happened for a clean and fast read:

- Sent hired personnel to engage someone to do my job (in this case was a kidnap/robbery);
- The contract ignores my Hitman's Semi-Automatic Shotgun, and pulls out a Deagle;
- I show up to assist, along with some other Criminal Group, that is not my own, yet, affiliated with my 'Hitman';
- The contract ignores all the RP lines, until cops finally show up;
- Eventually he threatens me and leaves;
- I chase him, which ends off with him instantly AFK'ing as soon as we get close to him (his Sultan vs my Infernus);
- This is where I /report, for AFK'ing to avoid RP;
- Nothing happens. After a solid 5 minutes or more, he comes back, we start to RP, and we can see that he clearly doesn't want to put  much effort into it;
- Eventually he says 'I refuse to Roleplay now';
- Starts to sprint off ignoring all the weapons and hits that he got (Headbutt/Smacked in the head with the weapon/Shot in a leg - Yes 10/10 RP), my Hitman and his friend shoot him, so I decide to shoot too, I get the most hits and eventually the kill... (Not saying it was a good call, but he threatened me, and after alt-tabbing to avoid the RP, this 'I refuse to Roleplay' seemed as another lame excuse to stay alive and return later);
- I get PM'd by the admin 'I know you tried everything to RP with him, and this is not about you killing him, but try to avoid RP'ing with him';
- And I explained the full situation, and the following PM came 'Yea, but I think he doesn't like you' or something with the same meaning;
- What????

Basically this was not an intervention against him for Alt-tabbing to avoid RP, but an intervention to the whole RP going on the server - 'He doesn't like you so avoid RP with him'. I'm not judging the admin, he is trying to keep the server without any tension. I'm blaming the player for asking admins' intervention for his own 'safety' within the criminal Roleplay. Yes he indeed Roleplays on the criminal side. Yet, he can't take the pressure of a simple criminal Roleplay which he should be familiarized with in the first place.

Yet what just happened is exactly what we are discussing, another intervention requested by players to the admin team to avoid Roleplays they do not like to happen to them, hello?

Change your current Roleplay to something non-criminal? Or even, like Gandalf said '/q if you don't want to Roleplay' instead of asking admins' help?
^ This is a callout to everyone, admins should be focusing on real Rulebreaks, not the fact that you can't go around the current Roleplay you're in.



There's a simple solution to all of this.
Admins focus on the major rulebreaks; Hacking as an example, and whenever there's a sudden cry for help in /report, before bothering both sides, check if there's any DM listed on the chatlogs, and if there is, engage a conversation with the players to see why did he kill him. Spectate first to see if there's shooting going on so you can instantly freeze them, and ask your questions, just don't do anything if when you spectate only Roleplay is happening.

If everything is going within the rules, don't engage with the players.
Maybe keep an eye on the situation, but don't let them know, if everything is going within the server rules.

This should give players the impression that admins are not taking action to the rulebreaks, but hey! If you did not interfere in that /report, it's because there was nothing to be dealt with in the first place.

Plus, giving that impression will lead, eventually, to players to use /report for real reasons and not just a way to safely avoid a Roleplay situation that doesn't favour them and instead, call 911.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Manas on April 10, 2015, 01:15:34 pm
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/1364/7xg.gif)

Nice
Quoting Devin from a locked unban request topic
"Do you know what they call such people?
[Answer  :hah:]
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on April 10, 2015, 01:18:59 pm
Your post makes no sense.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Bruce. on April 10, 2015, 01:21:09 pm
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/1364/7xg.gif)

Can I have some please.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: psyron on April 10, 2015, 01:24:48 pm
Quoting Devin from a locked unban request topic
"Do you know what they call such people?
[Answer  :hah:]

that hit the spot though  :lol:
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Hamza_Khan on April 10, 2015, 01:49:49 pm
Enough with this shit guys, you all know it is not going to take us anywhere, instead of building more hatred towards eachother, As currently we are in a situation where some section of Staff members hate some section of players, we all know that, but same goes for Some players who, blindly hate staff members, So at this kind of situation we should think of how to cope up with it, not turning every topic into an Cat-dog fight, ( nowadays every topic turns into this ), sometimes Staff do make mistakes  and players should not stick with it like a bee on testicle, and same for admins, as they should accept their mistake by apologizing the player, it will not decrease their respect infront of others, it would be really great if we set up a dialog between players and Leaders, a committee  of players , who would talk to Leaders on weekly bases and discuss the ground reality.

A great post indeed, highlighted some of the facts which are going on.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Thom on April 10, 2015, 02:05:34 pm
The problem is, when Admins interfer with criminal RPs, even if you're right(meaning there is no need for staff intereference), some admins, usually, don't get your words even if you're right and even if you're explaining them correct, only because they think they're way is fine. I'm not provoking it's just some honest point out. I haven't seen for a long time, any bank robbery, and i suspect it's for this exact reason.

Argonath has limited only criminals. Officers are free to ruin RPs and abuse their powers.
We(Criminals), if a Staff Member finds it no good, are not allowed to do some creative RP that is rarely happening,like bank robbery. Afterall, Police exists because of criminals, and not criminals because of Police.

I believe: If Staff doesn't allow us to do nothing more than evading traffic stops, then there is no need for FBI and SWAT to exist.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cyril on April 10, 2015, 02:10:20 pm
What creativity are you talking about when refering to bank robbery?
The only bank robberies that are denied by administration are the one where criminals gather 25 people, calling 911 or using /ad saying the bank is being robbed and all aiming at the door, waiting for cops to enter to blast them.

If you want to do that, I'm sure you can organize it in paruni server.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Sandi on April 10, 2015, 02:24:21 pm
Can I have some please.

(http://i.giphy.com/110eRAL3RhLf6o.gif)
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Morais on April 10, 2015, 02:43:46 pm
It's really sad to see such members that hold somewhat of an administration position coming here just to de-rail the topic.

@RafaDK couldn't agree more with you.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 10, 2015, 02:54:37 pm
As for the other points. An admin should never stop someone from interacting with other people in a role-play point of view. Blocking the road, asking for taxes, etc, etc, etc. Yet players should also not shoot someone because they do not agree with someone, or claim something as theirs. I do not mind if the players would role-play this properly. For example, coming with a group of 'fat' mafia members and beating the guy up, dragging him out of the building and making sure he doesn't get in. That way you show off an image, just shooting someone in his face just gets them pissed off and makes them return to the situation, even if this is not allowed.

If you roleplayed it correctly, and you warn those people several times, yes you can, AND SHOULD kill them(ofc not instantly, warning shots, beating up, and as a final measure, killing him), that's what criminals usually do to people who act that way. They don't sit around reading law do they? Also they got all the time in the world to:
1.Move away, or/and
2.Call police, SWAT, FBI, private security, their own mobsters, etc.
3. Fight back for their place into this profitable business.

Being a stubborn clown and not doing any of the things above(with usual screaming /s im just gonna respawn hahahahah, i call admins, u all reported), while surrounded by several criminals, who are into a roleplay with you, aiming at you, and warning you what's gonna happen next, then you deserve to die. And that's criminal roleplay as well, people should deal with it already.

We basicly agree on the first part. The second part is important as well tho.




The popcorn pictures were posted by retards in 2010. Find another joke.




What creativity are you talking about when refering to bank robbery?
The only bank robberies that are denied by administration are the one where criminals gather 25 people, calling 911 or using /ad saying the bank is being robbed and all aiming at the door, waiting for cops to enter to blast them.

If you want to do that, I'm sure you can organize it in paruni server.
Stick to posting pop corn pictures. You're a typical example of why this topic was made.



Administration must not denied anything. If we wanna rob with 25 people, and we roleplayed it correctly, you got no right in denying anything.
If we involve cops (which is retarded imo from criminal perspective, but from roleplay perspective, involving cops makes a whole new scenario, with negotiations, making escape plans/making plans to breach in=bigger, better roleplay=more fun for a larger amount of people), that only means the roleplay is going to another level.

When we used to do similiar things in 2010-11 I remember how much fun both sides had, CBF, Vince, and others leading cops side, driving in with boats, airplanes, you name it. We were constantly talking via pm to make sure everything goes smooth, cause its not easy when you have 50 people in one big roleplay It was going on for 2-3 hours constantly, and the roleplay was changing places from San Fierro, to LVAP, to Angel Pine, back to LV and then finally LS. And when I say "roleplay was changing places" I dont mean we ran and they followed us, yet we move the bank hostage to another "more cool" location such as Big Ear, or Mount Chilad, or the tallest building in SF, and then its a completely new scenario. Nowdays we would just get banned for "camping".

 We even kidnapped our friend who was /gu with an Ambulance right infront of SWAT/FBI, and no one complained about it, yet everyone had fun. CBF  and other police Highranks even allowed it, that we "cutt off" his cuffs in roleplay, as long as he doesn't shot cops. We try that nowdays we'll get;
> /id gvard,
> /ban all ids

I remember CBF called it the best roleplay he ever participated, and gave us all a huge cash bonus for it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cyril on April 10, 2015, 03:00:19 pm
you got no right in denying anything.

Tell me more about it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 10, 2015, 04:01:17 pm
Gladly:
Last I remember CL are above managers. Just cause you and your pals decided to throw shit on one of them, and embarrassed the whole HQ and the Community by doing it, doesn't mean others gonna tolerate your behavior. Specially cause you did it to a person such as Dell. IF Ron was around you would be long gone for what you did to Dell anyway.



You're a manager, and you're gonna listen what owners/CL tells you to, whether you like it or not. So if CBF(and not just CBF) approved this scenarios hundred of times till now, you as a manager can only apply with it. Or resign if you don't like it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cyril on April 10, 2015, 04:03:56 pm
And Staff members are above you.
If they tell you to do something, you are gonna listen.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on April 10, 2015, 04:08:23 pm
Gladly:
Last I remember CL are above managers. Just cause you and your pals decided to throw shit on one of them, and embarrassed the whole HQ and the Community by doing it, doesn't mean others gonna tolerate your behavior. Specially cause you did it to a person such as Dell. IF Ron was around you would be long gone for what you did to Dell anyway.



You're a manager, and you're gonna listen what owners/CL tells you to, whether you like it or not. So if CBF(and not just CBF) approved this scenarios hundred of times till now, you as a manager can only apply with it. Or resign if you don't like it.

You really shouldn't speak about situations you are not involved in or aware of. This spreads higher than you could think and the owners are already aware of the situation with Dellstorm. But of course you wouldn't know anything about that as it does not concern you.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Ivan_MC on April 10, 2015, 04:08:58 pm
And Staff members are above you.
If they tell you to do something, you are gonna listen.

Bro how old are you ? 5?
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 10, 2015, 04:11:24 pm
And Staff members are above you.
If they tell you to do something, you are gonna listen.
Between listening to a manager who trows shit on CL and trolls around every single topic on the forums, and to a long lasting CL(Specially if its someone like CBF), I as a player am obligated to listen to the CL priorly. Just like I'm obligated to listen to the owner above all.
And don't drag Staff members into it, its you who asked me to tell you more.
You really shouldn't speak about situations you are not involved in or aware of. This spreads higher than you could think and the owners are already aware of the situation with Dellstorm. But of course you wouldn't know anything about that as it does not concern you.
I agree Devin it doesn't. And I didn't intend to. But Cyril asked for a explanation, and I gave him. Hope its all clear now Cyril.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cyril on April 10, 2015, 04:15:53 pm
Between listening to a manager who trows shit on CL and trolls around every single topic on the forums, and to a long lasting CL(Specially if its someone like CBF), I as a player am obligated to listen to the CL priorly. Just like I'm obligated to listen to the owner above all.

As a player you are obligated to listen to a moderator and higher.
Actually the rank doesn't make any difference there.
Hope it's clear for you as you seem to not really understand how we work here.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Brian on April 10, 2015, 04:21:56 pm
A community leader in sense leads a community, he assists HQ with their issues and concerns and leads them. Yet a Division leader, and server management still have a saying over their server. That does not mean a Community Leader can come in and create rules, remove them or change them, without contacting it's servers HQ. I am not saying anyone is doing that, but I have the feeling someone has an ideology like that.

As for most rules being spoken about in the topic, most of them have been here for years, they just had not been enforced that heavily, until staff was asked to do so. I do agree how ever that staff should be separated from certain situations and have more of a 'over viewing' point of view, but remember a staff member can step in at any point if he or she feels like doing so. If you think he is not right, don't try causing a havoc but try to explain him calmly to reconsider and look in to it, or ask HQ about the situation. I see a lot of people posting that 'admin told me do this or ban'. An admin should never threaten with a punishment, that does not mean they can't be clear and honest with you ('If you continue with this attitude you will be removed from the server') is not a threat, but a heads up/ warning.
I do still think that having a chat about stuff can do a lot more then get mad, and have fights about it.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Teddy on April 10, 2015, 05:56:46 pm
Specially cause you did it to a person such as Dell. IF Ron was around you would be long gone for what you did to Dell anyway.

While I agree with your original topic in some degree; with this you are entirely wRONg in multiple ways.

1. If RON was around Dellstorm would've never become a CL; thus we would've never gotten this far. The manipulative strategy he used is sickening.
2. Cyril had no input, or authority regarding the situation with Dellstorm. Managers did not have a vote.
3. The owners are aware of this; and actually AGREE with us and support which ever outcome it reaches.
4. If you knew the truth you would also.

Just to clear that up.

Also a CL does not overrule a DL; no matter how much they think they can. They work alongside the division's leadership. Confirmed by the almighty absent owner.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 10, 2015, 09:11:39 pm
An admin should never threaten with a punishment,
Then why are you even still an admin ?  :uhm:



Most of the server seems to agree on this. What should I expect different ?
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Mr. Goobii on April 10, 2015, 09:19:50 pm
Those who are against admins; Why don't you leave the community and let the admins play for themselves?

I don't see a reason to play if you don't like what you playing. Keep walking guys, Argonath is not the only community and there is tons of them
everywhere. Find one and find the perfect community for you and your friends! Nothing keeps you stay at Argonath if you dislike it!
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 10, 2015, 10:45:51 pm
Those who are against admins; Why don't you leave the community and let the admins play for themselves?

I don't see a reason to play if you don't like what you playing. Keep walking guys, Argonath is not the only community and there is tons of them
everywhere. Find one and find the perfect community for you and your friends! Nothing keeps you stay at Argonath if you dislike it!
No, I think expressing their opinion about the staff do help the staff learn from their mistakes, try to solve it and serve at their best, even if it means you have to go against staff...
the topic was written in a way it doesn't provoke the staff's work it just criticize the staff and criticism is important when it has a meaning.
althought most of the replies here are none sense and meaning less just people waiting for the opportunity to attack the team..
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 10, 2015, 11:12:44 pm
As a player you are obligated to listen to a moderator and higher.
Actually the rank doesn't make any difference there.
Hope it's clear for you as you seem to not really understand how we work here.
I understood how "we" work here before you registered on Argonath and never had a problem with it. Its you who broke that chain of commands in a disgusting, humiliating, and  insulting manner.
And now when I pointed out you're making decision counter to decisions higher ranks then you made, basically breaking their decisions and creating your own, you're giving me moral lectures about following the hierarchy? Don't be a hypocrite.

And like I said if a CL, scripter, and developer like CBF(I can name more people and situations as well if you would like) in this example approves those scenarios, then you should apply to their decisions as well, not completely change them cause that's how it suits you more. Like I said in the beginning, sorry, but you don't have the right to do that.
While I agree with your original topic in some degree; with this you are entirely wRONg in multiple ways.

1. If RON was around Dellstorm would've never become a CL; thus we would've never gotten this far. The manipulative strategy he used is sickening.
2. Cyril had no input, or authority regarding the situation with Dellstorm. Managers did not have a vote.
3. The owners are aware of this; and actually AGREE with us and support which ever outcome it reaches.
4. If you knew the truth you would also.

Just to clear that up.

Also a CL does not overrule a DL; no matter how much they think they can. They work alongside the division's leadership. Confirmed by the almighty absent owner.
Let me be clear Teddy, I wasn't speaking about any of your inner HQ relations, reasons, situations or anything you pointed up above in your reply. Like Devin said, and I agreed, I got no input in it, nor is that any of my business. I was talking only on the things the entire Community saw on that humiliating trolling and insulting that was done on Dell's topic.

And I'm talking about Cyril overruling decisions made by lots of higher rank people, who were all above manager rank at that point. Speaking of hierarchy..
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Jamal on April 11, 2015, 01:06:30 am
Wow, the amount of 'trolling' and useless posts made by those in high rank positions on here lately is crazy. I don't know the situations at all, so I can't speak on them myself, but I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I played, none of that BS would stand, whether it be a 5 post newb or a veteran admin. Imagine what a guy looking at the forums and the server for the first time would think when he sees moderators and admins of these servers posting like children? But then again, if he doesn't like what he sees, he will just be told to '/q' and leave the server.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Benn on April 11, 2015, 01:22:57 am
Wow, the amount of 'trolling' and useless posts made by those in high rank positions on here lately is crazy. I don't know the situations at all, so I can't speak on them myself, but I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I played, none of that BS would stand, whether it be a 5 post newb or a veteran admin. Imagine what a guy looking at the forums and the server for the first time would think when he sees moderators and admins of these servers posting like children? But then again, if he doesn't like what he sees, he will just be told to '/q' and leave the server.
This community is part of a game!!! and the main point of this community is to serve us fun time... you call it trolling, they call it joking... You can't take a game that much serious and act like your life depends on it.
Just learn to enjoy the game.
Now I know this topic is about serious matter, same in serious meetings you always have to make a joke just to release the preasure, players tend to throw jokes just to release the stress of the debate...
You claim amount of trolling and usless post made by high rank positions on here is high... First of all thats wrong... ALOT of players joke around on such topics, why don't you say anything about them? well why do you think high ranks are any less or better than you or any other guys who jokes or any other person who make a statement? we are all equal, the rank is just responsibility you have to fullfill thats all the difference between you admins and  managers etc... just because they are high ranks they have to be serious all the time and not enjoy the game at all?
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on April 11, 2015, 01:32:33 am
This community is part of a game!!! and the main point of this community is to serve us fun time... you call it trolling, they call it joking... You can't take a game that much serious and act like your life depends on it.
When we call it joking they call it trolling. No exceptions.

What creativity are you talking about when refering to bank robbery?
The only bank robberies that are denied by administration are the one where criminals gather 25 people, calling 911 or using /ad saying the bank is being robbed and all aiming at the door, waiting for cops to enter to blast them.

If you want to do that, I'm sure you can organize it in paruni server.
Bank robberies are not script supported at all so the only way to actually rob it is to get the cop's attention in order to get the demands. Cops never reach the demands and prefer to storm in with 30 cops and keep re-doing the process until all criminals have been killed. So you can't completely blame this one the criminals.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Jamal on April 11, 2015, 01:40:58 am
This community is part of a game!!! and the main point of this community is to serve us fun time... you call it trolling, they call it joking... You can't take a game that much serious and act like your life depends on it.
Just learn to enjoy the game.
Now I know this topic is about serious matter, same in serious meetings you always have to make a joke just to release the preasure, players tend to throw jokes just to release the stress of the debate...
You claim amount of trolling and usless post made by high rank positions on here is high... First of all thats wrong... ALOT of players joke around on such topics, why don't you say anything about them? well why do you think high ranks are any less or better than you or any other guys who jokes or any other person who make a statement? we are all equal, the rank is just responsibility you have to fullfill thats all the difference between you admins and  managers etc... just because they are high ranks they have to be serious all the time and not enjoy the game at all?
I agree that this is just a game, I understand what you're saying. Of course mods should be allowed to joke and have fun like everyone can. But the 'trolling' I am referring to seems to be just provocative. And there is a difference between friendly jokes and obvious attempts to throw shade or mock people. Even a regular player should not be making such posts. The difference is is that admins/mods, leaders in the community, are supposed to reflect on the quality of the server. A group of great leaders gives good impressions, and leaders who's actions are questionable can leave a bad impression.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Teddy on April 11, 2015, 06:25:11 am
Let me be clear Teddy, I wasn't speaking about any of your inner HQ relations, reasons, situations or anything you pointed up above in your reply. Like Devin said, and I agreed, I got no input in it, nor is that any of my business. I was talking only on the things the entire Community saw on that humiliating trolling and insulting that was done on Dell's topic.

And I'm talking about Cyril overruling decisions made by lots of higher rank people, who were all above manager rank at that point. Speaking of hierarchy..

Ah, well then understood. I cannot deny either the topic got way out of hand but that's not really on point with this topic.

To be honest with you; as I do agree with the "blurred line" that exists with administrative/SAPD, laws versus rule, etc, I do not see the capacity to change.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: RafaDK on April 11, 2015, 10:04:31 am
This community is part of a game!!! and the main point of this community is to serve us fun time... you call it trolling, they call it joking... You can't take a game that much serious and act like your life depends on it.
Just learn to enjoy the game.
Now I know this topic is about serious matter, same in serious meetings you always have to make a joke just to release the preasure, players tend to throw jokes just to release the stress of the debate...
You claim amount of trolling and usless post made by high rank positions on here is high... First of all thats wrong... ALOT of players joke around on such topics, why don't you say anything about them? well why do you think high ranks are any less or better than you or any other guys who jokes or any other person who make a statement? we are all equal, the rank is just responsibility you have to fullfill thats all the difference between you admins and  managers etc... just because they are high ranks they have to be serious all the time and not enjoy the game at all?

I was joking too, back when I did what I used to do.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Leon. on April 11, 2015, 08:15:22 pm
Partly related to OP, I believe it is not fair that a cop can get copbanned in place of a ban. Just like the police in America getting fired for murder instead of a conviction...
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Brian on April 11, 2015, 08:17:18 pm
Partly related to OP, I believe it is not fair that a cop can get copbanned in place of a ban. Just like the police in America getting fired for murder instead of a conviction...
If something is ban worthy he should (will ) not be copbanned, but he will be given a ban. Admin copbans are usually used on abuse of the firearm, suspecting abuse, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Teddy on April 11, 2015, 08:19:21 pm
Just like the police in America getting fired for murder instead of a conviction...

He is being charged. He's in jail w/o bail. x)

I believe it is not fair that a cop can get copbanned in place of a ban.

SAPD should never intervene in place of an administrator. This is simply wrong.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Leon. on April 11, 2015, 08:33:10 pm
SAPD should never intervene in place of an administrator. This is simply wrong.
Seen it before many times. Cop goes around DMing with duty weapons, simply receives a copban.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Gnb_22 on April 12, 2015, 03:23:26 pm
Seen it before many times. Cop goes around DMing with duty weapons, simply receives a copban.

True story. Apparently a blue name gives you immunity from admin punishment. All you get is a cop ban..
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Manas on April 12, 2015, 05:32:19 pm
True story. Apparently a blue name gives you immunity from admin punishment. All you get is a cop ban..

Can't say total immunity but it acts as a shield to a good extent
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Rusty on April 12, 2015, 07:35:55 pm
True story. Apparently a blue name gives you immunity from admin punishment. All you get is a cop ban..


Copban from a Admin is a punishment, just the same as a warning or a few minutes in admin jail.  That unhappy about them receiving one then file a report on whoever issued it.  Not every deathmatching case requires someone to be temporarily banned or fully banned.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 12, 2015, 09:05:46 pm

Copban from a Admin is a punishment, just the same as a warning or a few minutes in admin jail.  That unhappy about them receiving one then file a report on whoever issued it.  Not every deathmatching case requires someone to be temporarily banned or fully banned.
Nope? Copban is not an admin punishment. But DM is DM and shouldn't lead to a copban for cops and a-punishment for the rest.

For cops it should be a copban for misusing duty weapons and an a-punishment if necessary.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on April 12, 2015, 09:10:49 pm
Staff should punish those breaking the server rules by administrative means regardless of their in-game "job". Those breaking SAPD regulation are dealt with by copbans.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on April 12, 2015, 09:14:16 pm
Staff should punish those breaking the server rules by administrative means regardless of their in-game "job". Those breaking SAPD regulation are dealt with by copbans.
Yeah, in theory.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Maxy on April 13, 2015, 09:49:53 am
To bring back the topic to what it was originally about.

The base of the issue is this. Criminals want to roleplay to make money, because the point of a criminal organization existing is to earn money.

Citizens don't want to roleplay robberies/extortion/kidnapping because the reason they are trucking/mechanic or whatever is because they want to make money, and they don't want to give it up to other people.

Cops want to make money from being police officers, want to get into gun fights and want to chase criminals, because those are the fun parts of being a cop. So they try to /su whenever they see the need to, without wasting much time.

The real issue here is that, of all of the "roleplay" to earn money, the criminal way is the most unpleasant.

Because it is unpleasant, the citizens will report the criminals instead of roleplaying and waiting for the police, the admins will try and deal with the issue when it is really a police issue. Since many admins are police officers or ex police officers, they naturally see criminals as enemies because they almost always are in criminal/police roleplay. So they immediately take admin action when it is not warranted.

The other issue is that no matter what the actual rules are, the highest ranking admin online will create the rules to suit his situation, whether or not they exist. This means that if you did something to anger the highest ranking admin online, he will not think objectively in 80 percent of cases, and will punish you based on non-rules that he made up.


The simple solution? Make drug scripts profitable, create a weapon selling script that we can actually make profit from, make more ways for criminals to make money, make it profitable for us to be regular businessmen and we won't have to resort to robbing truck drivers and extorting people so much. But as it stands now, that is the only way we can further our business through criminal means.

Because as you have created the server now, every criminal group is a trucking company who in their free time like to beat people up.

Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Everett on April 13, 2015, 01:47:19 pm
@Maxy Love ya for saying that. People will do two things when they play this game, the things they like doing and the things they're paid for, even in virtual currency. Cops get paid for doing their job though, yet criminals don't.

RS4's drug system although a little simple, it rewarded good roleplayers (people are more likely to deal with the good roleplayer, more deals=more cash). It also enforced hierarchy in groups, with drugs going up the ranks, and money going down. I think it makes sense for a leader of a respective group to be the richest guy, yet the richest people in argo are those who spend most hours trucking.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: eymas on April 13, 2015, 02:07:07 pm
Cops get paid for doing their job though, yet criminals don't.
Criminals do get money when jailed.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Exterminator on April 13, 2015, 02:10:33 pm
Criminals do get money when jailed.

Sorry for interrupting but since when is a criminal's job to be in jail?  :uhm:
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Everett on April 13, 2015, 02:25:01 pm
Skipping the part where you implied that criminals need to co-operate with police for a living, it would take 11.5 days straight in jail to become a millionaire that way.

The $200 if you /gu is nice, but it has nothing on the $3000 you loose if you don't type /gu fast enough.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Maxy on April 13, 2015, 02:27:16 pm
 :hah:
Criminals do get money when jailed.

Okay, then feel free to start a Jail RP group who's sole purpose is to commit crimes and get caught and then go to jail and earn 150 dollars per jailing. That sounds like fun, thanks for suggesting it.

Maybe next time you can keep the sarcastic nonsense to yourself in a serious discussion.  Attitude like that is the reason that discussions like this always turn bad.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Huntsman on April 13, 2015, 03:46:33 pm
Enough with your attitude towards those you dislike or don't agree with. Thanks.

Yeah, cause apperantly he's allowed to do that against me because he has more stars near his name. Hipocracy at its finest.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Kessu on April 13, 2015, 04:11:34 pm
Yeah, cause apperantly he's allowed to do that against me because he has more stars near his name. Hipocracy at its finest.
If you actually read my post, I haven't insulted nor provoked you once, where as you tell me to, what you assume is dissatisfaction towards you, to shove it up my ass.

Don't think you're important enough to me for me to like or dislike you. (yes, you see this was a slight provocation, but still nothing major. And for the record, I took no offense from your post(s))
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on April 13, 2015, 04:16:25 pm
Yeah, cause apperantly he's allowed to do that against me because he has more stars near his name. Hipocracy at its finest.

Call it what you want, throw arguments back and forth all you like.
If you have a problem with someone that has a staff position, take your concerns to their superiors to handle if you feel they are breaking rules with their actions. Complaining in public boards solves nothing.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Kaze on April 14, 2015, 01:25:24 pm
I have boycotted this topic because I haven't been a victim of this until yesterday.

This needs to change, asap.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Miller786 on April 15, 2015, 12:06:02 am
hold on a second, wasnt the topic about admins being cops?
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on April 15, 2015, 02:03:15 am
No, re-read the first post.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Nexus_Riggs on April 15, 2015, 02:57:05 am
What creativity are you talking about when refering to bank robbery?
The only bank robberies that are denied by administration are the one where criminals gather 25 people, calling 911 or using /ad saying the bank is being robbed and all aiming at the door, waiting for cops to enter to blast them.

If you want to do that, I'm sure you can organize it in paruni server.
I cannot agree more.

Law Enforcement is not allowed to respond to anyone who calls 911 to report they are robbing a bank. This is where an administrator will step in to stop that roleplay, because it's kind of a preventative measure for those who are merely asking for a deathmatch, nothing more and nothing less. However, sometimes admins do interfere a bit further than they have to, but most of the time its due to misunderstanding of the situation from player/admin's perspective which leads such situations to occur. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Whiteman on April 15, 2015, 07:31:03 am
Again, great topic. People, /q if you don't want to roleplay, otherwise get reckt by organised crime. And things like roleplaying fear etcetera is also lacking unfortunately.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: eugenefong on April 15, 2015, 05:27:22 pm
Couldn't agree more about this topic
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on June 20, 2015, 01:21:48 pm
This is still a problem, and with Argonath attempting to go through a reform (with SAPD being reformed and what-not), this should also be put into effect.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Stivi on June 20, 2015, 01:26:12 pm
This is still a problem, and with Argonath attempting to go through a reform (with SAPD being reformed and what-not), this should also be put into effect.
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=100219.0

Section 17, final note.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on June 20, 2015, 01:32:03 pm
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=100219.0

Section 17, final note.
Just because that rule has been added doesn't mean that criminals aren't allowed to do what criminals are supposed to do, just because some players scream DM everytime a group of players with weapons approaches them.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Heller on June 20, 2015, 01:48:19 pm
I wonder then, whats the meaning of having ammunition ?

Why there is a /copban command but not a similar one for criminals ? (maybe there is a command such as /takeweapons or whatever that is, which never been used that often i guess)
I've seen many freecops dming around but all they get is copban but in case of criminals, they usually get banned. Perhaps there should be some restriction placed on such fellows(such as forbidden to carry weapons for few weeks or hours). As for forcing role-play stuff, i think confi got strong opinions here.

what if argo transfer half the staff members from SAPD or FBI to a criminal organization ?
Wouldn't that promote better understanding between Criminals and Admins ? just kidding :lol:
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Kostas on June 20, 2015, 03:14:25 pm
Like what I said to a friend today. With the thing changing so that in order to become an officer you actually need to apply, it means that keeping control will be easier for the SAPD. Though I think that we should not forget that friends judge less harsh than they should some times... Maybe such reports should be taken into consideration by both the SAPD command and a couple of administrators that are not part of SAPD. And yeah, punishments have to be more than simply banning them from teh job.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Ivan_MC on June 20, 2015, 03:34:49 pm
confi

Cofi*

Just because that rule has been added doesn't mean that criminals aren't allowed to do what criminals are supposed to do, just because some players scream DM everytime a group of players with weapons approaches them.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on June 20, 2015, 04:47:32 pm
what if argo transfer half the staff members from SAPD or FBI to a criminal organization ?
Wouldn't that promote better understanding between Criminals and Admins ? just kidding :lol:
Why just kidding? That's literally the solution and would mostly solve the issue like it did before all the criminal admins got kicked way back when.

How do you balance the rule of a senate full of republicans? Fill half of it with democrats.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on June 20, 2015, 04:51:19 pm
before all the criminal admins got kicked way back when.

Keep in mind they weren't kicked for being criminal but for not doing their jobs correctly after being reprimanded more than once.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on June 20, 2015, 05:52:30 pm
Keep in mind they weren't kicked for being criminal but for not doing their jobs correctly after being reprimanded more than once.
Their job performance had nothing to do with it, also there were no warnings of the sort your describe to many of them.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on June 20, 2015, 06:13:02 pm
You really have no idea why people were fired. Those that were removed was due to their actions and failure to follow regulation.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on June 20, 2015, 06:15:32 pm
You really have no idea why people were fired. Those that were removed was due to their actions and failure to follow regulation.
ok
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Rusty on June 20, 2015, 07:21:19 pm
Just because that rule has been added doesn't mean that criminals aren't allowed to do what criminals are supposed to do, just because some players scream DM everytime a group of players with weapons approaches them.

That rule has always been there, staff decisions are final if you wish to disagree further then you know where to submit a report on the forum or go talk to someone in HQ directly.  If player's are screaming DM when people approach them then either they are right or they are just trying to get away from them by getting admins help.  Either way if you did nothing wrong yet they crying wolf just report them for refusing to roleplay and we'll handle them from there.

Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on June 20, 2015, 08:50:11 pm
That rule has always been there, staff decisions are final if you wish to disagree further then you know where to submit a report on the forum or go talk to someone in HQ directly.  If player's are screaming DM when people approach them then either they are right or they are just trying to get away from them by getting admins help.  Either way if you did nothing wrong yet they crying wolf just report them for refusing to roleplay and we'll handle them from there.


-You extort someone for dealing in a casino, you get reported and admin tells you to gtfo because "the casino isn't yours, you're just looking for a reason to DM".
-You extort truckers, you get reported and admins tell you to gtfo because "you're using this as a reason to DM".
-You block a road, you get reported and admins tell you gtfo because "you're using the road as a reason to DM".

It doesn't matter WHAT a criminal group does, it's just considered as a reason to kill someone and the RP will be stopped by admins, while on the other hand the only real "administration" that can handle these cases are the police department, fbi etc.

I'm not going to be annoyed on reporting a staff member everytime because they all have their own opinion on what's DM and what isn't. That's why a certain rule or a clear message needs to be given to admins that THEY SHOULDN'T INTERFERE IN CRIMINAL ROLE-PLAYS THAT MAY END UP IN SOMEONE GETTING KILLED.

Usually the case is handled AFTER the moaning player is killed and then the situation is described. When the admin (some of them) hears that we did it because "he didn't want to pay protection money" or something along those lines, it's instantly considered DM because the player "doesn't have to RP" or whatever reason.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on June 20, 2015, 08:55:14 pm
Its simple really;
1. If you're being jumped by criminals, either call the cops, or security agency, or your friends to help you out, or pay up. Moaning to admins via report, in such scenarios should be finished with a warning toward the person who submited the report.

2. If a person refuses to roleplay, he can either /q or get punish for it by admins. Unless he's on admin duty, or being AFK.

This two rules are vital for the ongoing changes that are happening on the server, and they must get implemented in order for Que's and HQs ideas to work out.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on June 20, 2015, 09:00:51 pm

2. If a person refuses to roleplay, he can either /q or get punish for it by admins. Unless he's on admin duty, or being AFK.
The chance to /q shouldn't even be given, since he's probably just going to use it get away from the RP scenario. He should either roleplay or face a punishment from the admins.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Hamza_Khan on June 20, 2015, 09:15:58 pm
2. If a person refuses to roleplay, he can either /q or get punish for it by admins. Unless he's on admin duty, or being AFK.

This ^. If you really want to have a real Roleplay environment on the server implement this rule.
And yes this is not against the vision of the Argonath, since this is a RP server, so we all are supposed to do RP here, you should be ready for it everytime, and not to come up with lame excuses of avoiding roleplay, want to avoid? then do it in a RP circumstances, don't use admins as a shield.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Johan_S on June 20, 2015, 09:23:33 pm
Some groups i will not mention names since all will feel offended but i will just put my name (Soprano) are prejudiced from the past and from the late past which is very hard to clean the history making new fresh one so once peoples see two cars with 8 peoples they consider DM without being sure if those persons are equipped with weapons or not. Lately we are being used from hipocracy that everyone is virgin and they do not use weapons of high damage like commbat so once you got commbat you are considered deathmatcher. Actually admins are used to check and see those groups for a while and for sure they will give the final verdict once we approach to the "prey" and obviously the action will be considered deathmatch for sure...

Speaking from my experience once we lost the recgonized status i forbined my family interact with Cops, Rivals, and Workers (such as truckers or representatives of legal factions) and guess what? 0 Punishments from 2 weeks.

You could give me thousands of roleplay advice's for my group but is not only my group. Is happening even with traditional factions such as Gvardia and Corleone. We are getting used from mix of the duties and the best way is to AVOID everything that get's attentions from cops and admins, in order to keep the privacy of the criminal act.

Don't tell me that the creativity is to open one restaurant and to run it in peace. We are criminals but i cannot recognize from what o be afraid in roleplay as criminal? From THE LAW or from Staff members.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on June 20, 2015, 09:32:34 pm
He should either roleplay or face a punishment from the admins.

 :app:
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Hamza_Khan on June 20, 2015, 09:39:09 pm
:app:
Yo Bro!! Yes this what Antonio wrote should be implemented if we want some serious roleplay.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on June 20, 2015, 09:43:17 pm

Speaking from my experience once we lost the recgonized status i forbined my family interact with Cops, Rivals, and Workers (such as truckers or representatives of legal factions) and guess what? 0 Punishments from 2 weeks.
This may keep you from receiving punishments, but let's be honest, the reason Sopranos lost their status doesn't fall under the same category as this topic, yet it was for reasons that were taken on a personal level and even brought IRL into it.

Isolating yourself from things that your character should be doing (as long as it doesn't go against the server rules) shouldn't be the answer to this problem.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Johan_S on June 20, 2015, 09:50:59 pm
This may keep you from receiving punishments, but let's be honest, the reason Sopranos lost their status doesn't fall under the same category as this topic, yet it was for reasons that were taken on a personal level and even brought IRL into it.

In the whole part of my message i didn't mention how we lost the thing since this is not the right topic and you are not the right person to discuss it. Please do not try to give wrong image.

I wrote /AFTER/ which was meaning "after the day we lost the status" i'm not saying that we lost the status due to this CASE. Once more time PLEASE i know that i have English issues but try to read as it deserves to be read. I just gave my opinion to explain how it works from my side, and defacto is that once we left interactions we avoided in 100 percent any possible punishment or any possible STOP from Roleplay.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Johan_S on June 20, 2015, 09:56:28 pm
Isolating yourself from things that your character should be doing (as long as it doesn't go against the server rules) shouldn't be the answer to this problem.

Since this was written later i will reply here. Yes is not the answer of the problem i'm just working with legal sector and touch illegal part only when is really really necessary. With addition of new SAPD i will look forward for new professionalism from their side and to open the door for legendary roleplays without gunparty. For example head of organization with head of LEO's negotiating to resolve the case.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Antonio. on June 20, 2015, 09:58:24 pm

I wrote /AFTER/ which was meaning "after the day we lost the status" i'm not saying that we lost the status due to this CASE.
Sir, if you state that just after you stopped interacting with cops, truckers and rivals, that your punishments dropped significantly, it only means that those were the reasons that caused the punishments and it's automatically implying that it's a solution, when in reality isolation shouldn't be one.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Cofiliano on June 20, 2015, 09:59:10 pm
Please, stick to the topic.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Ivan_MC on June 20, 2015, 10:18:04 pm
Johan, the thing that you mentioned about having 0 punishmants by forbiting interaction with all the players you named there, it's same like you said that you have 0 driving tickets when you have 0km driven by car. Its obvious that that will result with 0punishmants if you RP having diner with your family, admin wont come and give you a warn: 'eating with fork instead of spoon'. You should be able to feel free to go and rob someone (trucker,weed grower w/e), or to interact with cops and not to feel 'scared' from admin punishmant, the cops or workers that refuse to RP have to face a punishmant not us. That is what needs to be changed.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on June 21, 2015, 01:24:28 am
You should be able to feel free to go and rob someone (trucker,weed grower w/e), or to interact with cops and not to feel 'scared' from admin punishmant, the cops or workers that refuse to RP have to face a punishmant not us. That is what needs to be changed.
I think that was his point.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Gnb_22 on June 21, 2015, 03:04:18 am
It has gone on for far to long that groups have to avoid certain Role Play situation for fear of punishments which leads to the loss or inability to gain status. I am certain that 7/10 times when a criminal organisation conducts an operation whether it be Robbery or Extortion or Kidnapping or whatever it be and the victim of said crime is killed it is interrupted by admins questioning the validity of your RP. We preach one thing but then we practice another.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Lustigkurre on June 24, 2015, 12:55:22 pm
And while we are at it, would be nice if people didnt use the report command on regular basis after getting killed or even in other situations. What the hell, if I steal weed or kill a guy I can almost be sure that I'll see a text from a admin saying "hi lustig! :) :)  why did you..." And I'll have to explain the whole f**cking situation before I can continue playing. All because people get so butthurt. Get over it ffs, you got owned.

Now when keybinds are allowed I'm gonna make some nice standard explanations that I can pm to the admins 1 sec after I've upset someone.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Devin on June 24, 2015, 01:00:39 pm
And while we are at it, would be nice if people didnt use the report command on regular basis after getting killed or in even other situations. What the hell, if I steal weed or kill a guy I can almost be sure that I'll see a text from a admin saying "hi lustig! :) :)  why did you..." And I'll have to explain the whole f**cking situation before I can continue playing. All because people get so butthurt. Get over it ffs, you got owned.

Now when keybinds are allowed I'm gonna make some nice standard explanations that I can pm to the admins 1 sec after I've upset someone.

It's pretty sad to have to go down that road after every confrontation with other players, people seem to think that losing a little bit of money when they get robbed or someone roleplays stealing something from them is the end of the world and they run to admins for no reason. The most annoying thing is people crying wolf when there is nothing wrong.

Time to start punishing for false reports once again.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Lustigkurre on June 24, 2015, 01:06:30 pm

Time to start punishing for false reports once again.

Yes, that would make people think twice before reporting.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: .Matthew. on June 24, 2015, 01:16:20 pm
Please yes.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Pandalink on June 24, 2015, 04:18:15 pm
Yea, that would be nice. Had an incident awhile back where a roleplay ended in the deaths of some members of an opposing mafia, we barely escape the city before we're frozen by an admin and have to sit there for over 30 minutes explaining what happened, essentially all because some kids got butthurt that they died. So while they were off playing right away after respawning, we were stuck there explaining ourselves and wasting half an hour of our night, unable to leave or /q because then we'd certainly be banned for something or other.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: Gnb_22 on June 24, 2015, 05:31:22 pm
It's pretty sad to have to go down that road after every confrontation with other players, people seem to think that losing a little bit of money when they get robbed or someone roleplays stealing something from them is the end of the world and they run to admins for no reason. The most annoying thing is people crying wolf when there is nothing wrong.

Time to start punishing for false reports once again.

Glad that you see things this way.   ;)
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: JoshThePenguin on June 24, 2015, 06:16:39 pm
BUT .. as others have indicated is not actually the admin's fault, in fact the admin staff would be quite happy to have little to do other then deal with the hackers.

Then they shouldn't be on admin duty all the time and they should RP along, instead of joining the situation as an admin with a shiny red name.
As admins aren't aware of anything happening during the Roleplay or what has happened already at first, they shouldn't come TP'ing right in.

And I agree with Devin that the 'False report' purnishments should be used way more than they are right now.
Title: Re: Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)
Post by: FrankBlaze on June 25, 2015, 10:56:22 pm
Great topic with strong points, couldt have agreed more.

Criminals should be free to RP the way Mafia are supposed to (within server rules ofc).

And as i saw someone wrote, that there are way to many admins on the "legal side" and very few on the criminal side.
When i used to play in RS4 there were RP's almost every where, when i now came back again, there are almost no one that wants to RP, just to truck and earn money.

So then criminal groups thought that alright, everyone is trucking to earn money, but some criminals also want to earn some money, so well, robbing truckers started to be the solution for the criminal groups.

And of course, no one needs to die if they just comply and RP along. If they try to escape, of course we will teach that person a "lession" by giving him a beating, that's what criminals do.

Truckers get up to a 2k+ cargo, so if they are getting robbed, well, comply and say you only have 200+ on you, that is not much money considering their cargo. I would gladly pay 200+ for a good RP, i would even pay more if the Rp is good. And i have done that many times, i once got robbed, gave them 3k and i got thrown of a cliff and died, i didnt /report, i did /PM saying "Good Rp."

Many people are afraid to loose their weapons during an RP that you may get killed in, but come on, we all know the stakes of being in an RP server, shit happens. No need to /report to get an admin to resolve it. Like Cofiliano said, dont /report to try to get away from the RP.

If you have weapons for 3k on you, and the robber is asking for 500-1k well, its up to you if you want to loose 1k-1.5k if not, you will have to deal with the consequences, but like i said, no one needs to die and no one need to /report.

Just RP along without /report and you will see that most Roleplay's isnt that dangerous.
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