Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Teddy on December 31, 2015, 05:10:21 pm
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This is something I've been pondering for a bit of time now and it's really hard to just slap the blame down on to the community. But being practical there is a lot of good ideas we have, and you have had that we simply cannot do because of one simple fact: fucking useless trolls and abusers. With every system it seems we develop, we spend more time writing code to prevent abuse, detect abuse, and logging systems to ensure we can prove abuse than we do actual functionality in the systems. I bring this up because I want RS5.2 to be something different, something well... amazing and based on tester feedback it's generally well appreciated even though it's in an incomplete stage. So many ideas I've looked at and thought "Wow, this would actually be good" but within a few minutes my mind is flooded with all the ways it can and WILL be abused.
Don't think it's an issue? Look at Trucking for example, minor bug as soon as one person found it dozens and dozens of people were using it for gain and only one single person months later decided to properly report it to the development team. So this idea isn't baseless in terms of evidence from our community history.
What needs to change? That's the thing. Either the community as a whole has to want and make change or nothing changes and we continue to stun progress over childish behaviors. The choice is really yours, do you want greatness or do you want merely "good". I'll leave that up to you.
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Don't ban bug abusers instantly, fully drain their money out, no exceptions. People only care about their money and will eventually behave when they see admin fines being handed out regularly.
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Punish the ones who abuse it simple enough pretty much like a child, if someone finds a flaw and abuses it, then they can be removed from the server and all their assets and cash, more and more people do it more and more people get removed, simple enough they will learn, I have never believed in punishing a whole community over some idiots who want to abuse it. Stricter punishments should be brought in, simple as, those who are found to be doing it will be dealt with and eventually everyone will come to a point where they thing "shit I could be banned for this" and think twice, if you abuse such things then hey ho buddy you deserve to be removed.
tl;dr: for abuse of trucking for a extra couple of bucks, pay the price have a lovely ban, all your money and stuff removed, they will soon learn.
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Don't ban bug abusers instantly, fully drain their money out, no exceptions. People only care about their money and will eventually behave when they see admin fines being handed out regularly.
We've actually been considering using administrative fines as punishment but it just seems a bit drastic. It's also about the fact that we don't always catch abuse. As we try to think of all the possible ways a system can be abused, we can't think of everything and that alone leaves possibility for exploit.
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We've actually been considering using administrative fines as punishment but it just seems a bit drastic. It's also about the fact that we don't always catch abuse. As we try to think of all the possible ways a system can be abused, we can't think of everything and that alone leaves possibility for exploit.
Thing is people always go back to it, they will abuse it once and then their low IQ will lead them to go back and do it again in the future, as they say criminals always return to the crime scene.
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Thing is people always go back to it, they will abuse it once and then their low IQ will lead them to go back and do it again in the future, as they say criminals always return to the crime scene.
Doesn't mean we'll always catch it. We would've never caught the trucking incident if someone didn't report the specifics. Most of us developers and HQ members don't get much time in-game so the chances of us discovering it are low. While we do regular log checks, there's millions of lines of logs produced every day as we legitimately have to log everything due to this mentality.
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Maybe reward people who report bugs that could be abused for personal gain?
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Maybe reward people who report bugs that could be abused for personal gain?
Indeed, its a shame that people seem to be roped by the sheer fact of money, but if it causes stuff like this to be fixed then hey-ho give it a try.
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Reward those who report critical bugs and those who snitch on those bugs' abusers.
We've actually been considering using administrative fines as punishment but it just seems a bit drastic. It's also about the fact that we don't always catch abuse. As we try to think of all the possible ways a system can be abused, we can't think of everything and that alone leaves possibility for exploit.
As I said, a couple of fines here and there and people will start behaving accordingly, fines should only be for money-related matters such as scamming in legal deals, bug exploiting and such, not for DM/carjacking/insulting.
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I do agree with the points. But I do also like how all of the blame is on the players....
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I do agree with the points. But I do also like how all of the blame is on the players....
Who should it be on for then? There's no extensive team for beta testing and not that much time either. And even if there was, some bugs probably would still make it through to the final product.
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I do agree with the points. But I do also like how all of the blame is on the players....
I'm sorry but how is it not? HQ and Developers didn't go around abusing the trucking script.... nor any other bug. Like I said, it's hard to just push the blame but at some point we need to be honest.
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Ban us all.
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Ban us all.
The offer is tempting, but you've done nothing wrong :D
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Good idea was given to issue an administrative fine to those who abuse a bug in their own advantage.
It's not drastic if somebody dares and uses a bug to gain own advantage over others and attempt to keep it hidden.
I doubt anybody would like to lose money they've been working for, independently of how much of it was earned fairly.
It'll be a lesson.
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Thats a nice speech but you should remember that half of the server are just children who does the childish stuff you named because they are children....
they found a bug to make more money ,which they use to buy more guns and roleplay with their mafia... ,they sure won't report it even if they knew it is wrong.
You are the one who should change way of communication with them, you're not dealing with mature grownups at most of the time...Children can't change their way of acting because they don't know different, and you won't be able to rear them.
Happy New year.
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We could just go along the lines of; script abuse - rather large monetary deduction.
repeated script abuse - permanent server ban or perhaps a long ban and a complete account reset to $0.
Those reporting the bugs could possibly get some sort of monetary incentive to report the issues.
And those with legitimate information into people that have been cheating could also possibly get something out of it by assisting the staff team that way providing more eyes on the "server" and helping clean out the trash..
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Thats a nice speech but you should remember that half of the server are just children who does the childish stuff you named because they are children....
they found a bug to make more money ,which they use to buy more guns and roleplay with their mafia... ,they sure won't report it even if they knew it is wrong.
You are the one who should change way of communication with them, you're not dealing with mature grownups at most of the time...Children can't change their way of acting because they don't know different, and you won't be able to rear them.
Happy New year.
So? Children don't steal candy from the shop, because they know its wrong. Cant it be the same for abusing bugs?
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So? Children don't steal candy from the shop, because they know its wrong. Cant it be the same for abusing bugs?
Indeed, don't blame the fact that they're juvenlies for their actions when they should have some form of common sense if their parents managed to teach them anything. Sadly it seems some people forget all sorts of things when it comes to online matters.
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The offer is tempting, but you've done nothing wrong :D
I'll be using this next time I want to get banned :P
Fines are 100% okay.
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Indeed, don't blame the fact that they're juvenlies for their actions when they should have some form of common sense if their parents managed to teach them anything. Sadly it seems some people forget all sorts of things when it comes to online matters.
Indeed, but enforcing things such as "player fines" and harsher bans for those who try to gain advantage whether it be script abusing or general abuse, it will make them learn, possibly keeping them out of the game for over 6 months will cause them to learn, trust me that shit worked with me.
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We could just go along the lines of; script abuse - rather large monetary deduction.
repeated script abuse - permanent server ban or perhaps a long ban and a complete account reset to $0.
Those reporting the bugs could possibly get some sort of monetary incentive to report the issues.
And those with legitimate information into people that have been cheating could also possibly get something out of it by assisting the staff team that way providing more eyes on the "server" and helping clean out the trash..
Don't you think this is too harsh? You're dealing with kids who wants to play for fun, maybe if you added a script where you could report a bug in game it would make it easier for all players to report a bug, since it doesn't include going into the forum.
So? Children don't steal candy from the shop, because they know its wrong. Cant it be the same for abusing bugs?
Why you comparing life with a game? you're talking about a game where killing and hitting people is fun and allowed...
My answer is no it can't be the same...
Best suggestion was Timon's.
Don't ban bug abusers instantly, fully drain their money out, no exceptions. People only care about their money and will eventually behave when they see admin fines being handed out regularly.
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The only problem that Argonath has is that it keeps forgiving those who get caught and banned after they apologize. Bans aren't there to teach, they're there as a punishment and after an administrator bans someone, he should write somewhere for how long the ban should remain. For example a hacker, would be given 3-4 years before being unbanned, and so on.
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The only problem that Argonath has is that it keeps forgiving those who get caught and banned after they apologize. Bans aren't there to teach, they're there as a punishment and after an administrator bans someone, he should write somewhere for how long the ban should remain. For example a hacker, would be given 3-4 years before being unbanned, and so on.
Punishments should be outlined for each rule, for example,
Deathmatching:
Verbal Warning --> Admin Jail --> TempBan --> Perm. Ban
This works based on times the rule is broken, first time is usually a slap on the wrist and it gets stricter as the rulebreaking becomes repetitive.
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Punishments should be outlined for each rule, for example,
Deathmatching:
Verbal Warning --> Admin Jail --> TempBan --> Perm. Ban
This works based on times the rule is broken, first time is usually a slap on the wrist and it gets stricter as the rulebreaking becomes repetitive.
Yeah but I'm mostly referring to the last one, its not the first time someone gets perm banned and then unbanned after a couple of weeks. And the same mistakes are repeated once again.
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The only problem that Argonath has is that it keeps forgiving those who get caught and banned after they apologize. Bans aren't there to teach, they're there as a punishment and after an administrator bans someone, he should write somewhere for how long the ban should remain. For example a hacker, would be given 3-4 years before being unbanned, and so on.
Indeed, I tend to find most of them cases "Sorry I did *****, I promise it wont happen again" followed by a back and forth convo with a review date set to a months time etc, in terms of Script Abusing, Hacking I do agree they should tally right up to 6-12 months.
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Some might saay it is the job of developers to stop the possibilities of abuse. While this may hold some value, at the same time players are unwilling to help things move forward and instead of reporting bugs they abuse it as much as possible until caught.
If you really want new scripts to be developed and new ways to play and make money, it would be wise to stop making our scripters waste so much time on patching holes and exploits.
Yes we can ban you, yes we can empty your account or put it in negative. But instead of punishing we would like to reward players for reporting bugs and develop faster.
Currently more than 60% of scripts are dedicated to preventing and stopping exploits. Think of how many of your wishes would be realised if that was not needed.
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Indeed, I tend to find most of them cases "Sorry I did *****, I promise it wont happen again" followed by a back and forth convo with a review date set to a months time etc, in terms of Script Abusing, Hacking I do agree they should tally right up to 6-12 months.
Most who call for permanent bans would not be playing if we did.
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Don't you think this is too harsh? You're dealing with kids who wants to play for fun, maybe if you added a script where you could report a bug in game it would make it easier for all players to report a bug, since it doesn't include going into the forum.
If they find it too difficult to use a forum to report a bug, I doubt people will bother using a scripted bug report method; either way it makes no sense to report it via more than one method as it will lead to duplicated bug reports. If people find it too harsh when they get punished for cheating or script abusing it will help them learn in the long run that what they did is not condoned here.
Sooner or later they should be able to catch on; if not they will find the door.
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Most who call for permanent bans would not be playing if we did.
So let it be. We're not saying there shouldn't be forgiveness at times because I've seen it at first hand seeing people get mistakenly banned or banned for something so small its not even worth getting banned over. But those who continuously repeat the same mistakes over and over, should remain banned. Once you hit five bans, its just obvious that the player won't ever learn.
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60minutes of gameplay adminjails? and gettign kicked if afk/idling?
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60minutes of gameplay adminjails? and gettign kicked if afk/idling?
Doubt that would be any use, you can still go AFK without alt-tabbing or escaping.
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60minutes of gameplay adminjails? and gettign kicked if afk/idling?
Long admin jails are pointless, a lot of people spend their time afk anyway.
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60minutes of gameplay adminjails? and gettign kicked if afk/idling?
Or just pull 10k-100k depending on punishment reason from their accounts.
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Or just pull 10k-100k depending on punishment reason from their accounts.
Fining is a pretty ridiculous punishment from my perspective due it just depends from which point of view you're seeing the situation that has just occurred. However if you remove a certain amount of cash / giving a fine penalty to those who are banned, I assume that would be fine.
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So we've been moving the convo, back and forth, for a while. Any decisions? or any Conclusions?
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So let it be. We're not saying there shouldn't be forgiveness at times because I've seen it at first hand seeing people get mistakenly banned or banned for something so small its not even worth getting banned over. But those who continuously repeat the same mistakes over and over, should remain banned. Once you hit five bans, its just obvious that the player won't ever learn.
I believe you were banned more than 5 times, are you agreed you will never learn?
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Those that abuse the script and take advantages over any flaw they find in the game should be removed from the server without a chance of coming back. It's simple, if they don't care about this community we shouldn't be caring for them.
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Those that abuse the script and take advantages over any flaw they find in the game should be removed from the server without a chance of coming back. It's simple, if they don't care about this community we shouldn't be caring for them.
They will just ban evade and find another way round to abuse another bug, taking their money is the best solution in my honest opinion.
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I'd rather have a more reliable report bug system, @Teddy your response to Trucking was that I had not 'explained' it well over forum, while actually I had detailed it towards you in Skype to not reveal more on forum, yet the effort was gone.
Fact is, people will not change. Everyone tries to make e-$$ in-game, and if there are only 3 ways, people will find ways to abuse all of them 3. I'm not saying it's a fault of yours, but current system did not benefit many people in making money. Back in RS3-RS4 when there were only certain vehicles available without the ability of everyone owning one, there was an actual Market worth..People (including me) would buy and sell cars for profit everyday.. There were state owned cars all over the city and not just AP's and locked private owned cars everywhere.. there were ways to make money, there were Staff Events, DDs weekly, Lottos daily, Paydays.. Frank's Economic Stimulus <3... (Cars were just an example of why people are greedy.)
As for script abuse detecting.. Have every offender self-banned for 1 day(1st offence), 2nd time? 3 days.. etc. If they are aware that abusing something will let them off game for more time, they wont repeat it.
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there were Staff Events, DDs weekly, Lottos daily, Paydays.. Frank's Economic Stimulus <3... (Cars were just an example of why people are greedy.
Theese are very needed indeed.
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It's like leaving an unlocked bike in a middle of a street and then wondering why it was stolen. You can't change human nature.
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I remember suggesting money fines a few years ago before I became a moderator. People don't care about a ban, surely they can't play for a few days (or atleast that's how it used to be).
Now adays ban times are longer and people are /a bit/ more careful about what they do. But other than that they still don't really care, can't play for a little while but still have all their shit.
I would say, if a player script abuses, remove 30 per cent of their total money, and ban them for a month. Do they script abuse again (and I ain't counting using /helpmeup to get on a building here, even though it's script abuse). Remove all of their assets and ban them for half a year. Sure we might lose some players that way but we just can't keep going with the constant abuse of everything people can find.
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On a serious note, Timon had a fine idea and it seems practical since all these people who abuse bugs for gain is money.
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This is something I've been pondering for a bit of time now and it's really hard to just slap the blame down on to the community.
Consider what the issues actually are and whether or not it is something that warrants the need to openly blame or as a result of the blame, what is done - is it actual change for the better or is it just two steps forward, one step backwards?
Do you want to stick the blame on someone for something and risk causing upset or would you not rather see everyone happy?
But being practical there is a lot of good ideas we have, and you have had that we simply cannot do because of one simple fact: f**cking useless trolls and abusers.
Every action has a reaction.
By accusing the community or members of the community of being useless, malicious, trolls, you can expect some people to think you're not serious about doing good, although I personally can see you're, it's just you need to give considerations to certain factors especially how you go about addressing people.
Those people who are not good for the community will find that they can not return so easily.
For those members of the community which may unknowingly commit wrong but get the label of being malicious / become witch hunted instead of appreciated for what they are, you will find they return constantly.
Progress should not wait for a specific person, one thing that makes progress easier and much more enjoyable is co-operation and serious willingness to include and not witch hunt or seek to put down members of the community who given an actual chance will enable the witnessing of the community to flourish.
Generally, it is good at times to be upfront but when it comes to a public response or statement, the language should be considered and scrutinized to ensure what is said leads onto good.
With every system it seems we develop, we spend more time writing code to prevent abuse, detect abuse, and logging systems to ensure we can prove abuse than we do actual functionality in the systems. I bring this up because I want RS5.2 to be something different, something well... amazing and based on tester feedback it's generally well appreciated even though it's in an incomplete stage. So many ideas I've looked at and thought "Wow, this would actually be good" but within a few minutes my mind is flooded with all the ways it can and WILL be abused.
If we find that on the release of a product there is huge risk of abuse, then this would warrant the leadership or lack of leadership and collective blame. It should not see the end of development, it should just be recognized as something that happens but if it can be avoided then it is of-course best. If a plan can be established on how to avoid creating scripts which inadvertently could be used or misused (against the original developers intention for the product) then it should be done.
You need to drop the worry / anxiety / negativity, accept the fact there are possibilities and just look to work around them or learn from the negative aspects and build on them for the better.
Don't think it's an issue?
Remember - every action has a reaction.
Don't be quick to judge people, give them a chance... Don't start off with a negative hoping to go into positive, start from 0 and look up instead of digging a hole, climbing in it and then looking to reach ground level.
Example:
I give you the point of a eco warrior convincing people to care more about the Africans:
"well ofcourse you cunts will not recognise that there are many africans suffering in the world from mulnutrition... you just sit there with your donuts... whilst they sit there with NOTHING."
response: "yea, fuck you, I'll go eat my donut in peace, fuck your africans"
^ Above is wrong way to go about it.
Below is better.
"I know that you as people will recognize and care about these poor Africans, they are starving, let's try and do what we can to show our compassion for the African people, just because we're able to buy donuts, whilst they are not, we're not bad because of this, but we should try and do what we can".
"hmm, ok, how can I help?"
Remember - every action has a reaction. What do you want that reaction to be?
Look at Trucking for example, minor bug as soon as one person found it dozens and dozens of people were using it for gain and only one single person months later decided to properly report it to the development team. So this idea isn't baseless in terms of evidence from our community history.
If those people who were apparently abusing the system have not yet been banned, or if the intention is not to ban the whole server, then let them know what damage has been done and how they can help to fix or in the future avoid the damage.
What needs to change? That's the thing. Either the community as a whole has to want and make change or nothing changes and we continue to stun progress over childish behaviors. The choice is really yours, do you want greatness or do you want merely "good". I'll leave that up to you.
Progress waits for nothing.
IF there is something that can be done, then it will be done.
If there is an issue in the way, then you deal with that issue given it is sensible.
Good caring leadership needs to be shown.
Without 'good' there is no 'greatness'. Look to the future learning the lessons of the past to better shape that future.
But do not allow mistakes and concerns to hold you back. If you are serious about greatness then you MUST accept to work with people, to recognize peoples flaws and to be patient, caring and not discriminatory based on something that some people may suffer with.
Recognize not to work in haste, but also not to grab hold of the pistol and call it a day.
What will your reaction be to this reply?
Kind Regards
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A solution could be to revamp the economy system. The suggestion is somewhat unorthodox, but I find it interesting:
Some assumptions are:
- Player to Player transactions can not be abused.
- Players are money hungry.
- Players are power hungry.
Remove all scripts that give money directly to players. Instead, money in bulk is given periodically to a certain set of players who are responsible to distribute it among others. In place of scripts that used to grant cash to a player, put stats of that job which can be viewed on a web portal.
Example, lets consider the Police Department. All kills, jails, playtime and whatever stats can be recorded by scripts are to be recorded for each player. The scripts grant a huge amount of money to the highest ranked player in the ARPD(Chief?). Now, it is the Chief's problem how he would distribute the money. He would split it among Captains/Lieutenants, who would split it among Senior Officers or whatever. All officers would receive their amount that they deserved from their stats by their corresponding leader. All discrepancies are handled by their command staff, who would finally have their hands full with stuff to do.
Example #2, Trucking Companies/Vendors
A huge amount is given to the leaders of the trucking companies weekly. They are able to view the stats of all the truckers that are hired by them. It is their responsibility that the money reaches the truckers according to their stats.
So basically, all this headache is handled by the rank whores who get the leadership jobs. Meanwhile developers focus on greatness. A lot of ranked positions would need to be created, which might bring in a lot of players who aspire to fill them. If everything works in the ideal conditions, the community should boom.
This will give rise to new problems - Corruption. Old problems are getting boring anyway.
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<snip>
This is BSF all over again.
The current problem is that jobs are underpaid as hell and the lack of non-government jobs. Fishing, farming, and hopefully trucking(?) will be added in RS5.2, along with a dozen more jobs too which I hope will solve the problem.
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Remove all scripts that give money directly to players. Instead, money in bulk is given periodically to a certain set of players who are responsible to distribute it among others. In place of scripts that used to grant cash to a player, put stats of that job which can be viewed on a web portal.
Yeah, no thanks.
BSF was terrible.
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Yeah, no thanks.
BSF was terrible.
I'll have to agree with you there; it spawned loads of groups that claimed to "roleplay" which were purely an excuse for people to join and get a pay slip every week/month for doing little to nothing at all.
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purely an excuse for people to join and get a pay slip every week/month for doing little to nothing at all.
Exactly, people seemed to take a picture of 1 simple roleplay which literally sometimes was just "/me loads a box onto the truck" and then got paid for it, it encouraged no business cooperation and people just did as very little as they could just to secure their cash, sticking to scripted jobs is the best thing to do, hopefully we'll see different 'physical' /invent things in RS5.2 which people can actually RP, trade and create businesses around.
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Scripted trucking was the best thing that happened to the economy, but the script itself was poorly created and executed.
Now that we have farms, farmers should be able to transport harvest to "State Silos", these silos will buy crops for static prices. Truckers will then take these crops and transport them to appropriate factories and transform them to usable goods. Business owners will be able to set a purchase price for these goods and truckers will transport these goods to businesses who need them.
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@Teddy
Let's look at it from a real world insight. You and I are both USA, and know the rules of our "server". How enticing would you be to report a MAJOR flaw in Time Warner, Exxon, even Walmart or your local neighborhood wifi vs the temptation to utilize without any real threat of being caught?
Agreed, we shouldn't have to patch things with hotfixes or depend on a player to report; just the same as it should not be expected for a developer to write perfect code (although it is certainly a pipe dream). The point is, that no matter if Argonath withers and dies, or blossoms to full bloom; there will always be parasites and worms that are hellbent on consuming the creation. Even a multi-million-body corporation like Microsoft has to update Windows every Patch Tuesday.
To that extent, Teddy; I defy your logic. I do not condone the point you are getting at, perhaps I do not understand, but by understanding...and how dare you insult and insinuate that Argonath is not the exact definition of greatness? We came from a blank world, stock equipped. And the community, including you, has done more than any other community i've ever known to not just keep things working, but to try to actively renew interest in something that fell from mainstream a decade ago. To ask Why we can't achieve greatness, only seems to say that we haven't.
AFAIK, you are a damn good human being...and personally, I think you ask these kinds of questions based on pure curiosity and to invoke the community to think and ponder.
There will always be the hackers, the unwilling, the DMers and the banevaders. There will always be the necessity for locks, as they keep honest people honest. /ban is an example of such a lock. Imagine if everyone had access.
My point is that we can CONTINUE to achieve greatness, because we've already done it. And because of dedicated people like you, Dylan, Rusty, Leon, and too many more to name; Argonath is still here.
Criticism incites nothing but negativity from the very trolls and nay-sayers, that you seem so upheld to prevent.
Offering a free-thought, I'll still respect you regardless of your opinion.
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Perhaps there could be IG rewards offered for reporting exploits? Google, Facebook, a lot of the major companies offer money and other rewards for reported exploits and that seems to keep people from trying to break their stuff (example) (https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/reward-program/). That could probably work in Argonath, if you incentivized people to report the bugs instead of exploiting them maybe even those that only care about self benefit will report them.
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What most people said. Stricter punishments.
Drain the shit out of their account and everyone involved, also remove them for two months or so.
Don't let this bring you down though. Instead of focusing on the people abusing(that can be removed), focus on the people who will enjoy it! :)
Love,
Asta :D
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Scripted trucking was the best thing that happened to the economy, but the script itself was poorly created and executed.
You mean Argonath Truck Simulator? I want to earn by simply roleplaying, can you do that? I don't like driving a truck between scripted locations, I don't like, fighting scripted fires. Or chasing after criminals, who are wanted for killing someone, no matter if they just killed him infront of LSPD, or perfectly covered their tracks. I dont want to drive in a taxi all day, to find a single guy who wants to "use" me, but he is not up for RP, so he rushes the whole thing.
Create positions critical to people, and have them run by individuals who invest their time there. There have been bars, dinners, clubs, stripclubs, and what ever you can think of that is accessible to the public. Yet the only visitors they get are durring their "start", coz because want to see the new thing. Then they just fade off, no matter how often people actually "Roleplay" opening their bussiness to the public.
Imagine if you could only enter bussinesses when they are RPly open...
You are low on health? You've got to either get a medic, or find a food "store" that is open.
That was just a dumb idea, but seriously, create vital positions and fill them in.
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Don't think it's an issue? Look at Trucking for example, minor bug as soon as one person found it dozens and dozens of people were using it for gain and only one single person months later decided to properly report it to the development team. So this idea isn't baseless in terms of evidence from our community history.
Should've banned everyone involved. Like completely everyone. People would get the message then. The punishments atm are joke to those who ruin the gameplay for others.
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Should've banned everyone involved. Like completely everyone. People would get the message then. The punishments atm are joke to those who ruin the gameplay for others.
Everyone that abused the trucking script was banned and the money was removed from their accounts even the money they tried to hide.
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Caring about some numbers in a screen in 2016. Come on, folks. As for some people, specially the bug abusers, who work their ass out to find and exploit these bugs, just set their account to $0, as it will be way worse than a ban - the guy knows he'll cry a little bit, stay for a week without playing, then be unbanned and just enjoy his numbers on the screen.
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Should we really try to achieve greatness?
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Should we really try to achieve greatness?
That's something only you, the community, can answer. We're able to produce any level of scripts; greatness or simplistic.
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Should we really try to achieve greatness?
I'd say so. If we are here to have fun, why not succeed in doing so? We all have great memories from our times here that keep us around. Let us not give up on those, but instead create more.
Now for the issue at hand, Teddy put it pretty well in several of his posts. It is going to take a community-wide effort to change things. That means everyone must be willing. If everyone isn't, it can't happen. Regardless of how many scripts, punishments, rewards, and other "solutions" we come up with as a community, none of them will fix the problems at hand unless we actually desire to change our attitudes as a whole. I can only hope that everyone is sick of how things have been going by now, and are willing to start off 2016 fresh with a new perspective, and a want to just have fun without abusing everything they have access to. If so, we may just have a chance. :)
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So, anyone willing to make the start? Start changing yourselves. Is it that easy? How many of us actually acknowledge our mistakes? and are willing to change for the better? I know that I don't know probably most of my mistakes so far, who does?
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This is something I've been pondering for a bit of time now and it's really hard to just slap the blame down on to the community. But being practical there is a lot of good ideas we have, and you have had that we simply cannot do because of one simple fact: f**cking useless trolls and abusers. With every system it seems we develop, we spend more time writing code to prevent abuse, detect abuse, and logging systems to ensure we can prove abuse than we do actual functionality in the systems. I bring this up because I want RS5.2 to be something different, something well... amazing and based on tester feedback it's generally well appreciated even though it's in an incomplete stage. So many ideas I've looked at and thought "Wow, this would actually be good" but within a few minutes my mind is flooded with all the ways it can and WILL be abused.
Don't think it's an issue? Look at Trucking for example, minor bug as soon as one person found it dozens and dozens of people were using it for gain and only one single person months later decided to properly report it to the development team. So this idea isn't baseless in terms of evidence from our community history.
What needs to change? That's the thing. Either the community as a whole has to want and make change or nothing changes and we continue to stun progress over childish behaviors. The choice is really yours, do you want greatness or do you want merely "good". I'll leave that up to you.
I will be honest and say Admin fines implemented is required... I must say even am money hungry.
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I believe the too early announcement of any update of the server causes the development team to be in hurry to finish any script. As it was with RS5.. It was announced too early, people were getting impatient and suddendly RS5 was launched partly incomplete and earlier than wanted. But of course, the blame can't be tossed, that easily, at those who spend hours of their lifes trying to make the server better for us.
As for bug abusers.. If they can't behave by themselves, then admins should "help" them behave. A kid in school doesn't behave? PUNISHMENT. A player in server abuses bugs, then punishment. People learn what they should do the good way or the bad way. And we're talking about kids now, cause bug abusers and trolls are nothing more than kids, no matter what their age is.
In other words, i agree with the most of the guys in this topic. Set money to 0$,also tempban for 7 days, make them value what they had and what they should have. Plus, keep a record of those who are punished spesificly for this, and make the punishment greater even going to minus money and perm ban, if they do it more than 1 time.
All the trolls, were given many chances to behave and i believe that's what should be done. This rule i suggest isn't strict, because bug abusing is a rule itself and when rules are broken, punishments are implied. Common sense boys, sayonara.
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I believe the too early announcement of any update of the server causes the development team to be in hurry to finish any script. As it was with RS5.. It was announced too early, people were getting impatient and suddendly RS5 was launched partly incomplete and earlier than wanted. But of course, the blame can't be tossed, that easily, at those who spend hours of their lifes trying to make the server better for us.
Just somehting that I think is very important. When RS5 in its first inception was near completing the idea was to do thorough testing, add or correct things as a result and only then do the launch. Unfortunately something happened: we lost all server data,
This meant that we had a choice to revert to a copy of the players accounts that was over 6 months old, start an empty RS4 knowing we would have to start another loss of all acounts for RS5 or launch early.
Using an old copy would disadvantage a lot of players and also cause a huge workload of requests to management. Bans would have to be sorted out, new players who worked hard the past 6 months would have to be compensated and properties changed. It would have been a mess, and as the scripters of the time told RS5 was as good as finished it seemed not worth doig all that for what might be one or two months.
Using an empty RS4 would be possible, however it would be temporarily and players would have had to go through a double reset. This did not seem right.
The logical thing was to skip some testing and get in to RS5, at least it would ensure that there would not be further reset of accounts. What turned out is that the scripting team was not nearly as far with the ideas of RS5 as it should have been at release. RS5.2 is getting close to where RS5 should have been. That was one of the reasons that caused the drastic changes in the team over 2015.
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So, when in your opinion would RS5 had been launched if the data loss thing didn't occur?
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So, when in your opinion would RS5 had been launched if the data loss thing didn't occur?
It would have always occurred, the plan was never to use the old player data from RS4. It was to have players register new accounts and start over fresh with a new system as well as give most of the previously banned players a chance to start over again.
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So, when in your opinion would RS5 had been launched if the data loss thing didn't occur?
3 - 4 months later than it did;
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I don't think that the quick and fucked up launch of rs5, is what you were pointing out though, or was it?Because I like your way of thinking on that post. Don't rush the scripts, give them the time they need.
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I'd say it's a mental thing. I'd ban those who abused the bug to begin with, I understand it would take forever to find out who eventually abused a bug. Banning those who abused it will make the abusers understand that the administration will hit them like a truck if it is abused. Even though it would take some time to unban those who "did not know" that it was a bug, then it still would be worth to do as I am certain that you guys run checks through the script and logs to find out when the bug was committed and link them up to other banned players who abused the same bug to find out if there were any communication.
You may think "wow this will take forever", but think about it. Wouldn't it be worth it? Because those who abuse once without getting caught are most likely to abuse again. It's proved and repeated time after time. Those who are banned often will most likely get banned again in near future somehow. Those who have attitude issues and flame people will most likely flame again. Those who committed crimes will commit crimes again. And abusers will abuse again if you don't run them over with the ban hammer to make them understand that this is not allowed and is a top priority.
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Teddy,
It's the players within the community that prevent the HQ from progressing. During the 2011 period, many veterans stopped playing which shifted the playerbase to the new players. 4/5 years down the line, these 'new players' are still fairly young and still fuck around. Don't take this in a provocative manner but you prove my point as you waltz in here in 2011 and 4 years down the line you're one of the main guys in the community. You, along a handful of other players, actually do something good in this community. I'm sorry but your generation till present fucked up the community weather you want to accept it or not.
The only way to stop this is by using our heads instead of some damn outdated argonath vision. Use a system like candyland so we welcome only sophisticated, mature players with decent level of English and roleplay. I will be PM'ing you about an idea that I have and will publish soon.
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The only way to stop this is by using our heads instead of some damn outdated argonath vision. Use a system like candyland so we welcome only sophisticated, mature players with decent level of English and roleplay. I will be PM'ing you about an idea that I have and will publish soon.
It's ideas like this that caused the playercount to drop drastically earlier in 2015 when the 'remove freecop' idea was given a shot.
This is absolute bollocks; everyone should be welcome in Argonath. Your English wasn't all that good either when you started playing here, ''veteran''.
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The Argonath Vision is not the problem. It could work flawlessly if players wanted it to, as it did for many years. Removing it won't fix a single thing. Players will still abuse things so long as they choose to.
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Here are my observations, just to contribute.
I didn't think ahead or made a plan while writing this post so it might be all over the place, sorry in advance.
-Players think too highly of themselves.
-Admins think too highly of themselves.
-Most of the people are easily offended.
-Most of the people don't have a good sense of humor.
-Most of the people either ignore new players or teach them rules from other servers like it's Argonath's rules.
-Since there is not a rule book in roleplaying like in Dungeons&Dragons, there is always a fight between people who use different techniques while roleplaying.
-Players think people with bad English are stupid people because they can't talk their language.
-Players who has English as a second language usually make fun of people who can not speak English because they couldn't achieve what themselves could.
-People started caring about scripts more and more over the years and that damaged the line which seperates Argonath from a single player role playing game.
-Gangs take ingame beefs seriously and really get mad at enemy gang members.
-People spend their time typing commands instead of talking to each other so they can earn money and buy stuff they will never use.
-San Andreas Multiplayer is getting outdated.
-There are mostly two kinds of people; Those who make unfunny jokes about eachother (mostly about a person being interested in homosexual relationship) on /p and people who take things too serious.
-There is an ego war between everyone ingame.
-People are trying to put standarts to role playing, which is not possible.
-Players forget that this is a video game.
-Players who refuse to migrate to other servers which will satisfy their needs and instead trying to emulate those servers on Argonath.
-High ranking admins acting like a jerk to everyone. ( First examples that come to my mind are Devin and Rusty.)
(I probably left out a lot of things I observed because I got tired at this point.)
So basically, player base is toxic and people get what they deserve.
Thanks.
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:(
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Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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The roleplay mentality has been decreasing drastically and really unfortunately it feels like most part of the players are not attempting to increase it. It has to come at a point that a roleplay ends up with someone NOT dead.
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It has to come at a point that a roleplay ends up with someone NOT dead.
It sounds like you're saying that people should die for a roleplay to be successful.
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The roleplay mentality has been decreasing drastically and really unfortunately it feels like most part of the players are not attempting to increase it. It has to come at a point that a roleplay ends up with someone NOT dead.
You are right, most players do not attempt to increase it. No matter how much hard work is put into the community, players just do not care.. And that needs to change.
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I think that we should be light.
For example, for any bug abuse or any rulebreak, it would go from the lightest punishment to the strictest.
Going alot more strict and banning everyone and all that, you are saying ''we might lose players, but it will be better''
Yes, but you would probably die of boredom or something else, Argonath would lose atleast 50 percent of its playerbase, or if we really go strict and ban everyone and other things, it might be over 50 percent.
I think fines are the BEST solution. Banning everyone or punishing them a few times will piss them off, then they will just start swearing and leave Argonath.
Also to mention, Argonath is getting new players every day, and they are playing a big role in getting Argonath's popularity and population go back high again. But yet, IF we start strictly punishing them or banning them, then we will start losing players.
Not only underage or new, but maybe veterans or regulars which after getting banned or smh will lose interest and won't give a single damn fuck about getting unbanned or giving a single damn fuck for Argonath, and they will just leave it. Lustig for example, he got banned, and lost interest and just left.
So my solution is: Take it lightly, we want to get players, and raise our population and popularity, but, lets not go FULL-STRICT mode.
More players,more popularity = More RP, more fun, more enjoyment, like seriously, who wouldn't want these 3 things that I just said.
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Yes, but you would probably die of boredom or something else, Argonath would lose atleast 50 percent of its playerbase, or if we really go strict and ban everyone and other things, it might be over 50 percent.
Are you implying 50 percent of the player base abuses bugs? :lol:
And why should people who have abused serious bugs for the own gain and haven't bothered reporting them to HQ specifically because they can gain from it be left in Argonath? The only way to discourage that kind of abuse an encourage bug reporting of those specific kind of bugs is severe punishments, if you strip their cash and let them stay, the only thing they'll tell themselves is 'better luck next time'.
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Are you implying 50 percent of the player base abuses bugs? :lol:
And why should people who have abused serious bugs for the own gain and haven't bothered reporting them to HQ specifically because they can gain from it be left in Argonath? The only way to discourage that kind of abuse an encourage bug reporting of those specific kind of bugs is severe punishments, if you strip their cash and let them stay, the only thing they'll tell themselves is 'better luck next time'.
Firstly, no, I am not implying that 50 percent is bug abuse, I am implying 50 percent break rules, just sometimes or often.
If you want players which won't break rules, always report it,be mature,be kind, be professional,be respectful to stay on the server, and the immature and rulebreaking to leave it, then I suppose Argonath's lifetime will drastically decrease. Because of lack of players, which will soon create a lack of interest.
I myself, am trying to control myself, to not act childish, or rulebreak, I apologize to anyone if I have annoyed him or pissed him off, or if I ever injured someone with my words, I am very sorry.
I think Argonath is in a good path now, and I wouldn't want to change it.
But if you want to lose underage,new players and perhaps a few veterans and regulars, well, as I said, if that happens, it will drastically decrease Argonath's life time.
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Why do you even bother posting on the forums ?
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Why do you even bother posting on the forums ?
Do you have a problem?
You absolutely have no reason nor authority to tell me what to post,how to post,when to post, and to tell me if I should post or not.
Please, share with me your problem, because, surely you didn't say that for no reason.
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Leave personal attacks out of this topic, please.
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Leave personal attacks out of this topic, please.
It ain't personal Leon, its just that this kid add no value to any thread he posts in.
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It ain't personal Leon, its just that this kid add no value to any thread he posts in.
Regardless, it's better to leave arguments out if it concerns the way people post. Everyone is allowed to post unless it violates any of the rules. No matter if they spout retarded nonsense or not.
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Lustig for example, he got banned, and lost interest and just left.
That was his choice not because he got banned, he just wanted to DM Gandalf before he leave. :lol:
I leave the server cause of two reasons. First one being that I've played here for a very very long time and it just feels like it's time to let go. The other reason is that the server has lately started to lean against a more serious way of RP and it doesn't fit me.
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It's ideas like this that caused the playercount to drop drastically earlier in 2015 when the 'remove freecop' idea was given a shot.
This is absolute bollocks; everyone should be welcome in Argonath. Your English wasn't all that good either when you started playing here, ''veteran''.
And I agree, freecop should still be dropped. It's useless and generates a handful of problems.
>English wasn't all that good
>Born and raised in the UK
Argonath vision in a nerd term so maybe you can understand is like leaving all your router ports at home open.
Argonath vision in a real life example is like leaving all the doors and windows open in your house.
Argonath vision in a gearhead context is like leaving your engine running when you are not in the car.
2016 is the time to stop this. The way I see it, Teddy will eventually give up on trying to improve the server because of the pathetic playerbase (actually, MOST of the playerbase I can't stereotype).
And another small detail, change the name on SAMP Client to 'Argonath Roleplay'.
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It ain't personal Leon, its just that this kid add no value to any thread he posts in.
You do not know anything about me, when I want, I can be the most mature and serious kid you will ever see. Your behaviour is sickening me, but I am not the judge. You should change yourself and respect others.
Argument has ended.
Anyways, Back to topic.
Removing freecops would again be a strike to a server, if Teddy gives up on trying to improve the server, that will be a enormous strike to the server too.
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It sounds like you're saying that people should die for a roleplay to be successful.
I'm pretty sure that isn't what he just said.
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It sounds like you're saying that people should die for a roleplay to be successful.
He means that roleplay should end up with people not dying, i.e shootouts.
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>English wasn't all that good
>Born and raised in the UK
It still isn't all that great, Box3r
And I agree, freecop should still be dropped. It's useless and generates a handful of problems.
Playercount drops to 30 on peaks again
2016 is the time to stop this. The way I see it, Teddy will eventually give up on trying to improve the server because of the pathetic playerbase (actually, MOST of the playerbase I can't stereotype).
Playercount drops to 25 on peaks
And another small detail, change the name on SAMP Client to 'Argonath Roleplay'.
rip playercount
In all seriousness though, those analogies for the Argonath vision really don't make much sense, but I didn't even use the term 'Argonath vision' to back up my statements. I'm using common sense and the lessons removing freecops has taught us in the recent past.
As for your 'only pro english ppl ingame pls' statement: As long as someone can communicate, it's fine with me. Do you really wanna get rid of players like Favattinho just because they don't speak English that well? He's one of the most loyal firemen in the game and he plays for fun, not to be in some group whose main focus is to try and bully other groups out of the server.
The people you want gone are the very foundation of Argonath; new players that like the game.
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Removing freecops would again be a strike to a server
What? When did freecops get returned to RS5? Am I missing something?
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What? When did freecops get returned to RS5? Am I missing something?
The new rank that shows is "ARPD Officer" A.K.A freecop.
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The new rank that shows is "ARPD Officer" A.K.A freecop.
Accept it's not freecop because they are an officer. :janek:
I miss the freecop system tbh.
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First of all, it's bloody time we stop talking about who's at fault for the problem that we've been having for years, basically. Anyone can toss shitty blame around.
About new players having to go through a test or something. Simply no. I mean seriously, look at the punishments being given. I am not an administrator, but I mainly see people who have been around for a while getting punished. Sure some newbies do also get punished, but it's up to everyone to lead them to the right path.
We've been past the "admins are to be blamed" period, we've been past the "management is to be blamed" period, we've been past the "scripters are to be blamed" period. Do we need to live through the "players are to be blamed" period? And what's next? We blame firemen? then policemen? then criminals? then who's left? We're all to be blamed god damn it...
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Hi reader!
For those who do not know me, i am onotroll.
I am a veteran of argonath and would like to propose the sollution towards this question.
Its simple: dont release anything untill it is fully tested. Want a reason why you should do that? Rs5..
Back in the days there were little or few bugs, now since there appears to be new scriptors there are more.
Blame the players? Maybe a look into the mirror can also be helpfull.
I agree, players shouldnt abuse and it should be punished severely. But hey lets be smart for a second, wouldnt be abusing if there wouldnt be bugs now would there?
Also, want to know why you cannot achieve greatness? Stop trying to become the new **-** server and KEEP THE GODDAMN ARGO IDENTITY.. the identity I once joined this server for.
Now i know i wont be taken seriously, but its ok. Said what i wanted to say.
For those who want to discuss with me. Feel free to add me on skype. Send me a pm with your skype and i shall add.
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Also, want to know why you cannot achieve greatness? Stop trying to become the new **-** server and KEEP THE GODDAMN ARGO IDENTITY.. the identity I once joined this server for.
Very important what I just quoted there.
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Also, want to know why you cannot achieve greatness? Stop trying to become the new **-** server and KEEP THE GODDAMN ARGO IDENTITY.. the identity I once joined this server for.
This. I always wondered when this became a srs RP server? I agree there are people who overdo it by metagaming(you know what I mean), but all of people can be disciplined by implementing logical scripts(Yes, people do need scripts to roleplay). Script abusing for money? Thorough testing is the answer, which is what the current tester team is doing.
Take the kidnappers and the victim situation, you take their radio yet they still bad girl over /cb, can be solved by simple rope command(the logical script) and a /cb restriction on tied up people(the requirement of RP).
Oh and the trucker bug? It was there from the start, I reported it and Gimli replied that he presumably it's fixed, guess he didn't completely fix it.
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Hi reader!
For those who do not know me, i am onotroll.
I am a veteran of argonath and would like to propose the sollution towards this question.
Its simple: dont release anything untill it is fully tested. Want a reason why you should do that? Rs5..
Back in the days there were little or few bugs, now since there appears to be new scriptors there are more.
Blame the players? Maybe a look into the mirror can also be helpfull.
I agree, players shouldnt abuse and it should be punished severely. But hey lets be smart for a second, wouldnt be abusing if there wouldnt be bugs now would there?
Also, want to know why you cannot achieve greatness? Stop trying to become the new **-** server and KEEP THE GODDAMN ARGO IDENTITY.. the identity I once joined this server for.
Now i know i wont be taken seriously, but its ok. Said what i wanted to say.
For those who want to discuss with me. Feel free to add me on skype. Send me a pm with your skype and i shall add.
Strong words.
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I never knew pushing people to roleplay is acting like a totally strict roleplay server, but alright.
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I never knew pushing people to roleplay is acting like a totally strict roleplay server, but alright.
Who said this? Im just talking about the economical system, the need to take an exam before joining policeforces, the lack of state cars cause hey you need to shit money and buy cars.
My bad if this was a little bit unclear formulated.
And do not mistake, im not attacking anything, simply stating my opinion and my view.
On a side note, i have read the following on the forums:
What will RS5.2 hold feature wise? A new business system, a new trucking system, factories, crafting, warehouses, proper logistics system, new drug system, new drug market, new economy system, new stock market, new criminal updates, multi-language support, a new Internet and smartphone system and so much more!
Wow! Thought the whole argonath identity was all about roleplaying, a world of its own?
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Who said this? Im just talking about the economical system, the need to take an exam before joining policeforces, the lack of state cars cause hey you need to shit money and buy cars.
If you ask me the exam is great, I've seen a huge drop in general and pure abuse by cops, can't remember the last time I was /su abused, probably RS4. :rolleyes:
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I think that we should be light.
For example, for any bug abuse or any rulebreak, it would go from the lightest punishment to the strictest.
Going alot more strict and banning everyone and all that, you are saying ''we might lose players, but it will be better''
Yes, but you would probably die of boredom or something else, Argonath would lose atleast 50 percent of its playerbase, or if we really go strict and ban everyone and other things, it might be over 50 percent.
You bring up a good point I wanted to touch on:
Our balance in punishments is way off in both directions. We have some administration members (and above) who are extremely hard on punishments, and others who are extremely lenient, (or don't even do their job at all). When a user does eventually get banned, we are often giving many people too many second, third, or fifteenth chances at coming back, and they are not learning their lessons. Likewise, many people are getting banned to begin with who just don't know better, (meaning new players), because they were never told otherwise. The difference between teaching someone and not putting up with their rulebreaking anymore just doesn't exist at this point. Everyone knows that they can get banned and come back after a short sob story in little time. Likewise, many of these new players being banned don't know how to actually get unbanned, (or don't understand/care), and often just disappear from the community forever. (That in itself is a potential loss to our playerbase).
In order to fix this, we need the balance back. Some basic standards regarding some types of situations should be met to at least deter laziness or being overly-strict...and I don't mean "do this when that happens". I mean things along the lines of "if this small situation happens with a new player, try to explain to the player what is wrong first. If they ignore you, then move on to the next level of punishment", etc., so our administrators understand the levels of power they can use and when, and figure it out on their own for each scenario. Our administration teams are not trained to handle every situation, (and I would hope that they wouldn't be, as that would be impossible). However, they do sometimes need guidance. From a community-wide standpoint, most of the past administration learned their jobs from watching the other admins and players interact. Unfortunately with the direction our community has been heading the last few years, all they know is what they see, which causes a repeating cycle of failure.
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text
All this story can be summarized by:
1. Outlining punishments for each rulebreak.
2. Outlining punishments for each rulebreak depending on repetition.
3. Lenient punishments on new players.
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Who said this? Im just talking about the economical system, the need to take an exam before joining policeforces, the lack of state cars cause hey you need to shit money and buy cars.
My bad if this was a little bit unclear formulated.
And do not mistake, im not attacking anything, simply stating my opinion and my view.
On a side note, i have read the following on the forums:
What will RS5.2 hold feature wise? A new business system, a new trucking system, factories, crafting, warehouses, proper logistics system, new drug system, new drug market, new economy system, new stock market, new criminal updates, multi-language support, a new Internet and smartphone system and so much more!
Wow! Thought the whole argonath identity was all about roleplaying, a world of its own?
No, lets be a dead server for 3 years, on a game that's dying out, without basic scripts working, and talk about the good old days and argonath indentity.
You veterans who aren't even playing anymore, yet constantly come here to drop your shit are the worst ones.
Argonath has evolved, just like we all did, this is 2016 now, not 2007, this is a unique server where everyone can roleplay what ever the fuck they want, and in any style they want, yet the fact is, Argonath moved from a light roleplay server to(towards) a medium roleplay server isn't something to scream about, yet be happy, because that shows the Community maturity has evolved as well, no matter how much some people actions makes it look like nothing has changed.
80 percent people arguing and debating here, aren't even active that much, or are completely gone from SAMP, yet you guys are constantly talking out of your ass.
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All this story can be summarized by:
1. Outlining punishments for each rulebreak.
2. Outlining punishments for each rulebreak depending on repetition.
3. Lenient punishments on new players.
No. I did not say outline punishments. I'm saying create guidelines. They shouldn't be something that needs to be strictly adhered to, but instead guides administration members towards making better decisions. The tl;dr approach is not correct.
...and I don't mean "do this when that happens". I mean things along the lines of "if this small situation happens with a new player, try to explain to the player what is wrong first. If they ignore you, then move on to the next level of punishment", etc., so our administrators understand the levels of power they can use and when, and figure it out on their own for each scenario.
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80 percent people arguing and debating here, aren't even active that much, or are completely gone from SAMP, yet you guys are constantly talking out of your ass.
I'd agree with this.
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Many of the people discussing this here are inactive because of their frustrations over the issues. Regardless, what does their activity have anything to do with it? Our community is welcoming to anyone. Telling people they can't share their opinions because they don't play 8 hours per day every day only proves the point of this topic more.
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Telling people they can't share their opinions because they don't play 8 hours per day every day only proves the point of this topic more.
Correct.
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No, lets be a dead server for 3 years, on a game that's dying out, without basic scripts working, and talk about the good old days and argonath indentity.
You veterans who aren't even playing anymore, yet constantly come here to drop your shit are the worst ones.
Argonath has evolved, just like we all did, this is 2016 now, not 2007, this is a unique server where everyone can roleplay what ever the fuck they want, and in any style they want, yet the fact is, Argonath moved from a light roleplay server to(towards) a medium roleplay server isn't something to scream about, yet be happy, because that shows the Community maturity has evolved as well, no matter how much some people actions makes it look like nothing has changed.
80 percent people arguing and debating here, aren't even active that much, or are completely gone from SAMP, yet you guys are constantly talking out of your ass.
:app:
Don't like Argonath as it is now or what it's becoming? Cya!
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Many of the people discussing this here are inactive because of their frustrations over the issues. Regardless, what does their activity have anything to do with it? Our community is welcoming to anyone. Telling people they can't share their opinions because they don't play 8 hours per day every day only proves the point of this topic more.
Everything you just wrote is just a big ass excuse to continue talking out of your ass.
I'm not directing it to you personally, yet generally most of you guys debating here.
How can you debate about something you don't even have the right idea about? How can you know what's going on in the server, if you're not even playing? How can you know are people roleplaying more or less, if you don't join in and drive around from Ganton to Gs9, then to Verdant Bluffs, Verona beach, Skatepark at Jefferson, then Flint County, Avispa, and Queens, Montgomery? I can bet 1milion right away, you don't even know why are half of these locations mentioned at all. Yeah go research a little on group section then answer me.
You can't, but you said one thing right, you're here to cure your frustrations and feed your need for a constant debate and bad girling.
"Good old days"- that's bullshit, nothing was better in the 'good old days' then it is today, except you and your friends, being young and new to SAMP, so you have a nostalgia toward those time, and you forget how shitty a lot of things were, that's not the case today.
I'm sick of this sentence.
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8 hours per day
8 hours per day? Most of the people moaning, including yourself, don't even manage 30 minutes per week on the server.
*cough* https://panel.argonathrpg.nl/player/SugarD
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Everything you just wrote is just a big ass excuse to continue talking out of your ass. I'm not directing it to you personally, yet generally most of you guys debating here.
How can you debate about something you don't even have the right idea about? How can How can you know what's going on in the server, if you're not even playing? How can you know are people roleplaying more or less, if you don't join in and drive around from Ganton to Gs9, then to Verdant Bluffs, then Flint County, Avispa, and Queens and Montgomery?
You can't, but you said one thing right, you're here to cure your frustrations and feed your need for a constant debate and bad girling.
"Good old days"- that's bullshit, nothing was better in the 'good old days' then it is today, except you and your friends, being young and new to SAMP, so you have a nostalgia toward those time, and you forget how shitty a lot of things were, that's not the case today.
I'm sick of this sentence.
Okay, let's just break this down.
1. To say I'm personally talking out of my ass, and then saying it is not directed at me...that would be a bit impossible.
2. How do I not have the right? I'm part of this community, and as per the Argonath Vision, which overrides any and all rules of this community, I do.
3. You say I'm not playing, yet you did not even check my activity. If I was not playing, my account would be impossible to access right now, as it wouldn't have been properly converted to a version 3 account, as per Teddy's previous topic. ;)
4. Driving around is roleplaying?
5. It doesn't take activity in a single server within a community of more than 10 to realize that there is something wrong. If there wasn't, do you really think leading members of the community itself would be making topics like this?
6. I'm not here to constantly debate and "bad girl" as you said. If you had actually read the last 8 pages, you would know that I've barely replied to this topic compared to a majority of those who have.
7. The "good old days" are a reference to a time when these issues did not exist, or if they did, were extremely minimal. To add to this, you need a history lesson. I originally joined this community some time in the late 2006/early 2007-era. I had played in both MTA:VC and SA:MP. You may wish to look up when Argo was founded, and when it went live. This was not just some nostalgia. This is coming from someone who has been here and watched the community grow, change, and evolve over 10 years. Ask any one of the others who are still here from that time and I'm sure they'll also say that things have changed. They may have varying opinions on how things have changed, but they will still agree that they have.
8. If you are sick of it, then don't reply. People are trying to work together to have a healthy discussion on issues so it can be put out in the open, and ideas to resolve it can come about. Sitting here trying to spark a negative reaction from people is not going to solve anything.
8 hours per day? Most of the people moaning, including yourself, don't even manage 30 minutes per week on the server.
*cough* https://panel.argonathrpg.nl/player/SugarD
You completely missed the point I was trying to make. Congratulations.
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1. I meant its not directed to you only, yet to all of you guys.
2.No one said you don't have right to comment, just like we have the right to answer you and call it bullshiting.
3. What activity give me a break, I saw Gandalf more around then you. Mikal already did that.
4.Yes, passing by and talking to people, you can walk if you like it more.
5.And what's wrong?
6. What majority? Few inactive or gone players from SAMP players. The majority is 139 people who were online yesterday night, which proves you wrong.
7. Of course it changed, and thank God for that. Its not a strictly cop server anymore if that's your problem.
8. There's nothing healthy in talking out of your ass. There's no issue as far as more then 139 active people yesterday are concern. Actually there are issues of course, but those issues are nothing you guys are talking about, and raising some "omg I miss MTA Argo" subjects, and "argonath identity" and "argonath vision". We've been listening to those stories for years, and we all know them very good, this is 2016, get used to it.
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1. I meant its not directed to you only, yet to all of you guys.
2.No one said you don't have right to comment, just like we have the right to answer you and call it bullshiting.
3. What activity give me a break, I saw Gandalf more around then you. Mikal already did that.
4.Yes, passing by and talking to people, you can walk if you like it more.
5.And what's wrong?
6. What majority? Few inactive or gone players from SAMP players. The majority is 139 people who were online yesterday night, which proves you wrong.
7. Of course it changed, and thank God for that. Its not a cop server anymore if that's your problem.
8. There's nothing healthy in talking out of your ass. There's no issue as far as more then 139 active people yesterday are concern. Actually there are issues of course, but those issues are nothing you guys are talking about, and raising some "omg I miss MTA Argo" subjects, and "argonath identity" and "argonath vision". We've been listening to those stories for years, and we all know them very good, this is 2016, get used to it.
1. In that case, my apologies for the misunderstanding.
2. I believe I misunderstood your reply.
3. Gandalf has been active within the last week. I was active within the last month or so. Adding to this, if people with low activity shouldn't have an opinion here, then by that logic the community's own Owners wouldn't either. Doesn't exactly make sense. ;)
4. No comment.
5. This entire topic is discussing the answer to your question.
6. Majority of those replying to the topic, not the majority of overall players in SA:MP.
7. As I said, everyone has their own opinions on what has changed. (My point was that it had changed in the first place).
8. I'm not bringing MTA:VC into this at all. Me even mentioning the name was simply a reference to the time and where I was. Just because activity in the server is high doesn't mean past issues have gone away. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a massive amount of posts in this topic agreeing that there are problems that need fixing. In the perfect world, everyone would be disagreeing with the original poster saying nothing was wrong.
Getting used to problems is not the answer. Yes, complaining is a problem in itself which shouldn't be acknowledged, but a good amount of the community recognizes that something is wrong. At that point it leans more towards a need to discuss what is happening, and if applicable, how to fix it. It is no secret that many of these issues are well-known by everyone. Many of them may be simply complaints, but many of them are also real issues affecting the health and future of our community.
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I don't know why I went and feed you, instead of just making my point in the first post, and get it over with.
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Tbh, I see SugarD more online then Gandalf.
Cofi, when you said (feed you), are you implying he is a troll or something like that? If you are, he joined Argonath 2 months or more before you joined it.
Also to mention, he is a very good veteran.
I don't see anything bad about SugarD, the only thing I would like is that he focused a bit more on the FD, other then that, he is a very good veteran.
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Cofi, when you said (feed you), are you implying he is a troll or something like that? If you are, he joined Argonath 2 months or more before you joined it.
And what does the date of registration matter?
There are players who registered back in 2006 and came online now, who(in your opinion) has more experience and idea about whats going on currently?
Its the experience that matters not the /whenmade or the forum registration date.
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Its the experience that matters not the /whenmade or the forum registration date.
Without /whenmade and forum registration date , you don't have experience :P
if you get what i mean
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Without /whenmade and forum registration date , you don't have experience :P
I lol'd.
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I lol'd.
Let's lol'd together then
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"Good old days"- that's bullshit, nothing was better in the 'good old days' then it is today, except you and your friends, being young and new to SAMP, so you have a nostalgia toward those time, and you forget how shitty a lot of things were, that's not the case today.
I guess people miss the days of inactive HQ members and stagnant scripts that weren't actually being developed?
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With the more recent SA:MP versions came many improvements, also in the form of plugins that are still actively developed. This expanding ecosystem of plugins, vastly improved, cheaper hardware and general developments in the tech-world simply allow for more complex and advanced scripts.
It isn't the case that because of these advanced scripts that we do any harm against the original atmosphere that we have in Argonath. Great scripts and original roleplay can go well together. Also, just because everything COULD be done with /me, /l and /em, this doesn't mean we should not innovate.
With the recent player counts increasing, I see a bright future for Argonath, especially with the release of RS5.2 and the improvents it has.
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I think Chuck says a lot of good things, and this is coming from someone who plays regularly.
What's so unique about Argonath is all the different styles of roleplay. There is no right or wrong. The roleplay is generally not any more light/medium than it ever was yet, it's just that some people would like Argonath to steer into into ''medium/serious roleplay'' to benefit their own roleplay style.
This is wrong in my opinion because you can dupe a large group of players with the implementation of certain rules that stimulate ''medium RP'' as Cofiliano puts it.
What I think the HQ/community should offer to the players is plain and simple freedom. Let people do their serious RP, let people do their ''light/medium RP'', let them do everything and keep the rules simple and open to interpretation.
Why? Because this was you're duping nobody and letting everyone play the way they want to play. Don't support serious RP, don't support medium RP, don't support light RP, support everything.
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OT : i'd agree with the points mentioned in the first pages
reward on the persons who report the bugs .. don't actually see any bad side of it?
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Main reason why this community became unstable is due to all the veterans who left. Deny it as much as you want, but its a simple fact. Look for example at CBFasi.. it all went downhill from then on.
To be honest, im way to busy irl to become active again, yet it saddens me looking at this community today.
And there will be a few retards who will say: wtf then leave.
Well to me this was my home.. dont like seeing it get burned down :-)
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Main reason why this community became unstable is due to all the veterans who left. Deny it as much as you want, but its a simple fact. Look for example at CBFasi.. it all went downhill from then on.
To be honest, im way to busy irl to become active again, yet it saddens me looking at this community today.
And there will be a few retards who will say: wtf then leave.
Well to me this was my home.. dont like seeing it get burned down :-)
After CBF left it went downhill? I think you've been looking at the wrong community, server activity is going up, and things only seem to be getting better from how it was at the start of RS5.
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Well to me this was my home.. dont like seeing it get burned down :-)
It is better to demolish an old, abandoned house and build something better on it than leave it the way it is.
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It is better to demolish an old, abandoned house and build something better on it than leave it the way it is.
Not when the cost outweighs the benefits. ;)
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Not when the cost outweighs the benefits. ;)
In what way does the 'cost' outweigh the benefits?
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In what way does the 'cost' outweigh the benefits?
Well it depends on what he means by starting over.
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Well it depends on what he means by starting over.
Why reply with what you did if you don't know what he means by it...
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no more combat shotgun... On a serious note: Its not like everyone will agree on everything.
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Main reason why this community became unstable is due to all the veterans who left. Deny it as much as you want, but its a simple fact. Look for example at CBFasi.. it all went downhill from then on.
To be honest, im way to busy irl to become active again, yet it saddens me looking at this community today.
And there will be a few retards who will say: wtf then leave.
Well to me this was my home.. dont like seeing it get burned down :-)
I don't appreciate these kinds of posts; you don't even have two hours in RS5 since your registration in 2014. I find it hard to believe you know anything about the community or server at this point in time. Things change but sadly salty "veterans" claim to know better.
So it "saddens" you to look at the community today when you have no experience with it either. If you have problems try see what is actually going on instead of shitting on things you have no experience with.
You want to call our progress burning something down? I feel sorry for you.
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Main reason why this community became unstable is due to all the veterans who left. Deny it as much as you want, but its a simple fact. Look for example at CBFasi.. it all went downhill from then on.
To be honest, im way to busy irl to become active again, yet it saddens me looking at this community today.
And there will be a few retards who will say: wtf then leave.
Well to me this was my home.. dont like seeing it get burned down :-)
(http://blog.theregularguynyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/cool-story-bro-now-gtfo-of-here.jpg)
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I hope the drama doesn't start again.
EDIT: The one you just changed looks a bit more worse Marcel.
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Exactly, people seemed to take a picture of 1 simple roleplay which literally sometimes was just "/me loads a box onto the truck" and then got paid for it, it encouraged no business cooperation and people just did as very little as they could just to secure their cash, sticking to scripted jobs is the best thing to do, hopefully we'll see different 'physical' /invent things in RS5.2 which people can actually RP, trade and create businesses around.
I had not heard of BSF yet and did some search to find out what it was. Correct me if I am wrong, it was a system to pay a business owner some bulk cash that he/she would distribute among his/her employees based on what the group roleplayed. They had to show a proof of how they role-played the business and why they deserved the money, which were hilarious at times.
My suggestion differs from that as, the amount is paid out purely on the basis of stats, facts and figures. So, a cop is paid ($ x Criminals killed + $ x Criminals jailed) on payday. The difference is, the cash is paid by the police Chief instead of scripts. So, every money earned by a cop is audited and screened by a high ranked police official. Any exceptional stats (9999 jails) would get their attention and the economical harm through script abuse would be prevented.
The main advantage is that the scripters would not need to worry about all the boring if else if else if else if else if else snippets which occupy 60% of the code as mentioned. They can spend their time and effort on much better features. The workload would be shifted from the developers to players who hold high ranked jobs.
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Main reason why this community became unstable is due to all the veterans who left. Deny it as much as you want, but its a simple fact. Look for example at CBFasi.. it all went downhill from then on.
After CBFasi left, Argonath has stopped being a strictly pro cop server. I'll always respect him for all his time and efforts he gave for Argonath, but in my opinion his idea and work was completely wrong and ultra one sided. I'll give you a few example:
-Official and recognize criminal groups couldn't have one doors, again I repeat, ONE DOORS set as object at their house FOR YEARS of asking, because he was denying it with bullshit excuses such as SAMP object limits, yet he spent millions of objects in making highway and Mordor itself. I remember the stress Pablo Santos went for years with him, asking for one bloody doors to be setup at Garcia, and he kept denying. He was doing the same with Gvardia, again for years, and if wasn't for Gimli and Frank Hawk as Community Leader we would have never got our gate at Corporation. Even tho we were official, even tho we actually bought another property with a gate so the "samp object limit" wouldn't be a problem he was still denying it with bullshit excuses, and he still went furious on Gimli and Frank for giving us one f**cking gate.
-Not a single script, addon, feature in the period of 5 years has been done for the criminal players, nothing, zip, nada, niet, it was all focused on developing some ridicules things that majority didn't had any use of.
-Not a single map could have been implemented unless its the new HQ of SWAT, new AirForce base, and what not. Same goes for interiors.
-Not a single among thousands of bugs that's not concerning police work or general server playing, was fixed, and was never a priority, of any kind, the drug script couldn't be used for 8 months at one point, and it needed 5 minutes of Xcasio time when he came back to Argo, for him to fix it.
-Not a SINGLE criminal admin was among /a team. We had a wave of Criminal Leaders becoming moderators once Frank and xcasio took charge, but when they quit, they were all antagonized until CBF placed all his SWAT friends, and again we didn't had, I repeat, a SINGLE criminal admin.
Yeah I know you like that period because it was a nice era for you, but for majority people here, and majority people on Argonath were, are, and always will be criminals, it was nothing but a dark age, and its not about cop/criminal balance, since SAPD is treated today better then ever as well, which you can ask Drix if you don't believe me.
And most people here are looking forward for those "silly iphone scripts" aka RS5.2, it only makes me sad we didn't get RS5.2 back in 2009 when there was a constant of 100-150 players, Argonath would be top 3 SAMP Communities among roleplay servers, yet these guys are working their asses off, to repair all the stupid decisions and recovered all the wasted time, that we've lost.
They took a dead server, with almost a dead Community on a dying game, who lost all trust into their developers and lost all hope, and step by step, they've returned it to the late RS4 level, and have actually earned the trust not by their "plans" and "future ideas" yet by their hard work and reasonable attitude toward Community.
And now when things are starting to look way better, veterans returning, player count rising, scripts are getting released on a regular base and Argonath has hope for a nicer future, you guys show up and start talking out of your ass, insulting our intelligence with your stories of the "good old days" and how everything went "down the hill" after that.
Fuck you and your "good old days".
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Thank you Cofiliano :app:
What you've said is simply amazing.
Svaka cast :)
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You know you wont achieve greatness after this topic reached 10 pages of interventions.
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What've I missed?
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What've I missed?
gsf got official, corleones starting to appear once again, frank hawk and lustig left the community, rs5.2 delayed till 1st feb 2016. thats it for now
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Cofiliano, I must give you a big clap for what you have just wrote. :app: Svaka cast brate, samo nastavi govoriti istinu.
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What've I missed?
Most of the mapping to-do list!! You and your 637372 month inactivity :lol:
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Why can't we achieve greatness? Stop trolling and start taking roleplaying seriously, atleast try. Simple as that, scripters are on their top game trying to give us the possibilities to expand and create even more unique roleplay, though roleplaying needs some brain capacity to perform.
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Why can't we achieve greatness? Stop trolling and start taking roleplaying seriously, atleast try. Simple as that, scripters are on their top game trying to give us the possibilities to expand and create even more unique roleplay, though roleplaying needs some brain capacity to perform.
I think this is one of the biggest issues at the moment. Driving around, doing nothing and trolling in the chat is one of the things most people do nowadays (not all). I tried roleplaying a cab driver, a cab driver with engine failure and a medic for some time now. Gave people lots of oppertunities to roleplay with me, tho all they do and care about is chatting, trolling, driving around and thinking about themselves.
Cab driver driving in Flint County, spotting a man that is bunnyhopping towards Los Santos with no car in sight. But no, he doesn't want a cab ride, just because of the money or roleplay. Just one of the few examples.
Most of the jobs are useless. Firemen only care about their money, drivers are never called and medics are just there for driving around and healing people without RP. It's all about the cops and criminals.
As Whiteman said, stop trolling, start roleplaying.
And now when things are starting to look way better, veterans returning, player count rising, scripts are getting released on a regular base and Argonath has hope for a nicer future, you guys show up and start talking out of your ass, insulting our intelligence with your stories of the "good old days" and how everything went "down the hill" after that.
Fuck you and your "good old days".
Yes, maybe 5-6 years criminals were sent down the shitter, but that does not take away the roleplay aspect. They kept roleplaying and that was one of the reasons they survived that shitter. Something that is much lower now then before.
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After CBFasi left, Argonath has stopped being a strictly pro cop server. I'll always respect him for all his time and efforts he gave for Argonath, but in my opinion his idea and work was completely wrong and ultra one sided. I'll give you a few example:
-Official and recognize criminal groups couldn't have one doors, again I repeat, ONE DOORS set as object at their house FOR YEARS of asking, because he was denying it with bullshit excuses such as SAMP object limits, yet he spent millions of objects in making highway and Mordor itself. I remember the stress Pablo Santos went for years with him, asking for one bloody doors to be setup at Garcia, and he kept denying. He was doing the same with Gvardia, again for years, and if wasn't for Gimli and Frank Hawk as Community Leader we would have never got our gate at Corporation. Even tho we were official, even tho we actually bought another property with a gate so the "samp object limit" wouldn't be a problem he was still denying it with bullshit excuses, and he still went furious on Gimli and Frank for giving us one f**cking gate.
-Not a single script, addon, feature in the period of 5 years has been done for the criminal players, nothing, zip, nada, niet, it was all focused on developing some ridicules things that majority didn't had any use of.
-Not a single map could have been implemented unless its the new HQ of SWAT, new AirForce base, and what not. Same goes for interiors.
-Not a single among thousands of bugs that's not concerning police work or general server playing, was fixed, and was never a priority, of any kind, the drug script couldn't be used for 8 months at one point, and it needed 5 minutes of Xcasio time when he came back to Argo, for him to fix it.
-Not a SINGLE criminal admin was among /a team. We had a wave of Criminal Leaders becoming moderators once Frank and xcasio took charge, but when they quit, they were all antagonized until CBF placed all his SWAT friends, and again we didn't had, I repeat, a SINGLE criminal admin.
Yeah I know you like that period because it was a nice era for you, but for majority people here, and majority people on Argonath were, are, and always will be criminals, it was nothing but a dark age, and its not about cop/criminal balance, since SAPD is treated today better then ever as well, which you can ask Drix if you don't believe me.
And most people here are looking forward for those "silly iphone scripts" aka RS5.2, it only makes me sad we didn't get RS5.2 back in 2009 when there was a constant of 100-150 players, Argonath would be top 3 SAMP Communities among roleplay servers, yet these guys are working their asses off, to repair all the stupid decisions and recovered all the wasted time, that we've lost.
They took a dead server, with almost a dead Community on a dying game, who lost all trust into their developers and lost all hope, and step by step, they've returned it to the late RS4 level, and have actually earned the trust not by their "plans" and "future ideas" yet by their hard work and reasonable attitude toward Community.
And now when things are starting to look way better, veterans returning, player count rising, scripts are getting released on a regular base and Argonath has hope for a nicer future, you guys show up and start talking out of your ass, insulting our intelligence with your stories of the "good old days" and how everything went "down the hill" after that.
Fuck you and your "good old days".
Hahahahaha, holy shit brate, to je to!!
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Argonath has become better scripted that's for sure.. But its not the server that 4 years ago Players loved to stay and play. The blame is not to be thrown at nobody
Cause all the things went upside down since then
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Yes, maybe 5-6 years criminals were sent down the shitter, but that does not take away the roleplay aspect. They kept roleplaying and that was one of the reasons they survived that shitter. Something that is much lower now then before.
Yeah, and that's the consequences of those 5-6 years. Only few of us, who you can call masochists stayed around, while most of the people who were pushing the roleplay level up, gave up long time ago, exactly for the reasons I pointed out in my previous reply, and no one can blame them for it, I gave one example of Pablo Santos who was keeping 15-20 fantastic roleplayers on Argonath for 3-4 years, in a ghost town back then, San Fierro which was 3 times harder to do, specially for a gang, who was really depressed for years, and all his efforts were crushed, because of the people in charge back then, who just took criminals, criminal groups, and criminal leaders for granted, basically like slaves and orange meat, that they wont run out off. Well we run out of them.
Lack of vision, lack of realism, lack of equality, lack of development, even lack of empathy and solidarity.
And now some of their followers who were so happy back then for their own selfish reason, came here to tell us all about it.
The roleplay didn't go down because of RS5, the roleplay went down because of all the things I wrote in the previous, and this reply, that were happening few years ago.
And these days, the roleplay level is rising up as well, unfortunately not enough leaders are around to have 5-6 gangs in LS 2-3 gangs in SF, plus all the organized crime syndicates like we should have, because we wasted them, but with a proper group support, and a proper Community support, we can re-build all of it, and even move to another level, that Argonath never manage to reach before. And these scripts, maps, features, and most importantly a supportive and helping attitude toward those people from the HQ and Community in general, are just a fertile land for all of that to happen.
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Most of the jobs are useless. Firemen only care about their money, drivers are never called and medics are just there for driving around and healing people without RP. It's ALL about the cops and criminals.
As Whiteman said, stop trolling, start roleplaying.
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And these days, the roleplay level is rising up as well, unfortunately not enough leaders are around to have 5-6 gangs in LS 2-3 gangs in SF, plus all the organized crime syndicates like we should have, because we wasted them, but with a proper group support, and a proper Community support, we can re-build all of it, and even move to another level, that Argonath never manage to reach before. And these scripts, maps, features, and most importantly a supportive and helping attitude toward those people from the HQ and Community in general, are just a fertile land for all of that to happen.
I totally agree with you. Tho IF gangs / clans rise up again, will that bring roleplay back? I got a strong feeling that will only encourage more cop / criminal roleplay. You won't help medics, drivers, fireman and mechanics with that. If you want to encourage more people roleplaying those jobs you will need to start them for yourself, not rising up a clan / family again.
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As Twenty said, creating more families and clans will make the server look like more a cops and robbers server.
We need to focus on the FD,EMS,Mechanics,Drvivers and whatever jobs are still here. Enough focus on Cops'N'Robbers, let's move to the other jobs.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with more clans or even criminal entities being created in the server. To say people "must" rather join law enforcement or other government agencies over creating a new criminal group is simply not logical. Players are welcome to join or create any kind of group they're keen on creating.
As long as it is not making a new group every week for the fun of it and closing it shortly after.
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I totally agree with you. Tho IF gangs / clans rise up again, will that bring roleplay back? I got a strong feeling that will only encourage more cop / criminal roleplay. You won't help medics, drivers, fireman and mechanics with that. If you want to encourage more people roleplaying those jobs you will need to start them for yourself, not rising up a clan / family again.
If only our problem was too many newly open clan/families.
How about guys like you, Ivan, Masi, Favathino, and other guys who are precises to this Community for being one of the rare people who constantly roleplay as medics, cab drivers, firemans, and other (non-cop, non-cirminal ) civilians, help new players develop such groups and learn them to roleplay and lead them?
While you do that, criminal leaders will focus on developing new groups which you can't really find any last few months/a year almost, based on new players. Its really sad that Los Santos as the main gang city, has only GSF and Ballas left, now without Frank and Lustig, and not just Los Santos.
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Everyone has their own preference of what they like to roleplay.
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CBFasi brought life, love and humanity to Argonath RPG.
Since his leave, it seems empty.
He is a wonderful person and it's a shame people did not want to be patient or tolerant.
But my question still remains, why the hell is this topic labeled "Why can't we achieve greatness?". It's negative as fuck and it's not going to do any good as it's pretty structure less. Let's go back to the drawing board and actually try again.
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He is a wonderful person and it's a shame people did not want to be patient or tolerant.
Why do I think this is pure sarcasm?
On the groups topic, there is also some need for scripts for certain types of groups to exist. Trucking for example, has caused at least 5 trucking-related companies to emerge and focus on RP scenarios that did not exist before. Now that farms and farming are coming, I hope the same will occur.
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(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/f/ff/Rhino-GTASA-front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090415114521)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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How about guys like you, Ivan, Masi, Favathino, and other guys who are precises to this Community for being one of the rare people who constantly roleplay as medics, cab drivers, firemans, and other (non-cop, non-cirminal ) civilians, help new players develop such groups and learn them to roleplay and lead them?
Could you explain that more? That sentence is confusing to me. Do you mean I am one of the rare people that constantly play jobs that aren't cops and criminals, and what is that about helping new players( I do help them) and groups and roleplay and leading? I am confused.
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We should not forget that the majority of players will not dedicate a long time to a single game or community.
If you look in 2010 who of the people from 2006 were left, a lot of veterans were gone and more were becoming inactive.
This is the same if you look to the current players and the people they remember of their first days.
Players come ond go, and not many will remain present a long time. That is why giving attention to new players and getting their attention is so important. Instead of staying in your own circles and locking out unknown players, invite them even if it runs the risk of having some time wasted.
As for lack of criminal admins, I guess you forget out current server leader has a very criminal past. As had many of his predecessors.
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I don't think we even lack criminal admins now, there's GSF, Gvardia, and probably a few others, not that groups should matter, admins should be impartial and unbiased no matter what, and if not then they shouldn't be admins. :rolleyes:
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We should not forget that the majority of players will not dedicate a long time to a single game or community.
If you look in 2010 who of the people from 2006 were left, a lot of veterans were gone and more were becoming inactive.
This is the same if you look to the current players and the people they remember of their first days.
Players come ond go, and not many will remain present a long time. That is why giving attention to new players and getting their attention is so important. Instead of staying in your own circles and locking out unknown players, invite them even if it runs the risk of having some time wasted.
As for lack of criminal admins, I guess you forget out current server leader has a very criminal past. As had many of his predecessors.
This is what I've been trying to say for a while, old players aren't returning, and current players are sure as hell not going to asexually reproduce for more players, the only way to get a higher player base is through new guys.
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@OP since I don't want to read through 11 pages-
A lot of it I'm sure has to do with the freedom that Argonath offers, the kind of freedom to do whatever you want that appeals to younger people. And as we all know, younger people tend to think more for themselves before they think for others, hence you have people ruining great ideas for others by abusing them for their own gain. If we want to stay true to our vision, the best we can do is continue to allow this freedom while proactively and strictly punishing those who abuse this freedom. These type of people totally ruin the atmosphere Argonath offers. Although some may disagree, at this point I am amazed that Argonath has not become closer to a stricter roleplay server. I would not consider Argonath's direction towards a more roleplay-oriented server as Argonath becoming more like a srsrp server.
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We've actually been considering using administrative fines as punishment but it just seems a bit drastic.
Far from drastic, my friend. Much better than depriving us of a lovely script. If anything, it's the right thing to do when all a player wants to do is slap developers in the face and shit on the freedom of their fellow players. Eye for an eye - shit on me, I shit on you, I say!
Massive shoutout to you Teddy for taking on the burden of improving a pessimistic server going through pessimistic times. With us on your shoulders, I have no doubts that Argonath will have its opportunity to shine once again, and perhaps even brighter than before, regardless of the player count. Quality over quantity.
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I admire everyone's effort to contribute. I will now close this topic and we'll review everyone's suggestions and determine how HQ will handle how we move forward.
I will in RS5.2 implement a bug hunting program at the very least. It will be an in-game script in order to make it easy for everyone. More to come about that.
Together we will can make something amazing, far better than we can imagine for the current state of things.