Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Stof. on July 12, 2015, 10:55:06 am

Title: This is the problem.
Post by: Stof. on July 12, 2015, 10:55:06 am
So today I engaged in some Roleplay with what I thought would be a little bit of fun, within about 40 seconds of the roleplay this player just repeats "okay set me as club friend so i can ride bikes" I'm not going to name names but I'm using it as an example of the non RP and metagaming going on to better their out of RP characters (through /groups and assets etc).

This particular player has been playing for a while, and should know how to Roleplay and what the concept of it is by now. Even if he didn't I would've been happy to help him learn the basics and more, I thought I'd ask him if he knew how to roleplay in case he was new, which is completely understandable.

[18:09:35] PM to ******(11): Do you know how to roleplay? 
[18:09:48] PM from ****** (11): YEs but not now
[18:10:18] PM to***** (11): Bad luck, it's a RP server. Roleplay or **** off, seriously.
[18:10:26] ******(11) says: Ok bye

(not saying piss off from the server, piss off from the roleplay)

This type of anti social gaming is what I hate on this server the most and always have! Going up to people on the street and initiating conversation or a robbery or anything! Then being greeted with a /em soz no time to RP, /em busy. The server is named Argonath RPG, a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Sitting in /p talking shit is not the point of the game unless I've been misled.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving all the new stuff being introduced and all the new take's on Roleplay we're developing towards and am thankful for everything being done. I just think it's time we start giving some more initiative to roleplay with one another. Maybe a 3 strike process as this gives players 3 warnings for anti social and anti RP behaviour (from being reported, of course). And on the 3rd Strike you lose an asset of yours or whatever!

I wouldn't be writing this if it wasn't a big issue, most of the time I'm in game it seems most are not interacting with each other unless in /p and that makes me feel pretty bored and I'm sure many others too! As I've found, it's not much fun to RP with yourself.

I'm done with my ranting. Comment your take on this issue and any solutions, this is my opinion and I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the communities opinions/criticims.

Thanks, Stof.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Cyril on July 12, 2015, 10:57:28 am
Give me his name in PM, thanks.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 12, 2015, 11:00:49 am
Report them for avoiding RP if you see people do it again.  :cop:

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: CharlieKasper on July 12, 2015, 11:31:53 am
Kick for avoiding roleplay and 'no time for roleplay! :cop:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 12, 2015, 02:36:48 pm
No we will not start warning or kicking people just because someone who is pissed off reports them.
If an admin is witness to the behaviour he can take measures, otherwise it will need a log check, and being an antisocial prick is not bannable, there for the expectations of a log check on it happening are pretty low.

If you are approaching a player you know has been on server for some time, the question 'do you know how to roleplay'or any remarks in that direction are provoking, and will ALWAYS cause a negative atmosphere. Compare it to you arriving at your job and a colleague asking you if you know how to do your job. I bet you will be pissed off at him for the rest of the day.

Just engage the guy in roleplay, and if he bails out let him go. Enough other people to worry about one guy who does not get the idea of why he logged in.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Cofiliano on July 12, 2015, 02:55:42 pm
I dont understand one thing,  and its not releated to Stof's topic;

So many people are bitching about how no one is roleplaying, like, lets say at least 40 people from my personal experience has said that last 30-40 days, one would have thought those people that complain about it so much, would have to ran to each other at least 4-5 times per day right?
And if you ran into people who wants to roleplay and have at least the basic knowledge in it, then you wouldn't be complaining about how no one is roleplay right?

So its either people are being attention whores, or they only want to roleplay with people who has the same style/understanding/knowledge/level/callitwhateverthefuckuwant in roleplay, hence why they complain how very few are roleplayers.

Point is, don't walk away from a person just because his english is low, or his roleplaying skills isn't smooth and up to your almighty roleplay standards, don't stick only to people who you know are ultimate roleplayers, don't judge people just cause they are doing it wrong in your opinion, yet try teaching them, it wont take more then five minutes of your time anyway.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bundy on July 12, 2015, 03:02:32 pm
Either roleplay or /q. I thought you said something along those lines a while back, Gandalf?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stof. on July 12, 2015, 03:59:08 pm
No we will not start warning or kicking people just because someone who is pissed off reports them.
If an admin is witness to the behaviour he can take measures, otherwise it will need a log check, and being an antisocial prick is not bannable, there for the expectations of a log check on it happening are pretty low.

If you are approaching a player you know has been on server for some time, the question 'do you know how to roleplay'or any remarks in that direction are provoking, and will ALWAYS cause a negative atmosphere. Compare it to you arriving at your job and a colleague asking you if you know how to do your job. I bet you will be pissed off at him for the rest of the day.

Just engage the guy in roleplay, and if he bails out let him go. Enough other people to worry about one guy who does not get the idea of why he logged in.

Fair enough, a lot of work would go into punishment measures and I'm with you in not implementing them simply because we should all know to interact with one another and not try to dodge around roleplaying with someone. Hence making this topic, I'm exposing the behaviour so others don't repeat it and find roleplay solutions to 90% of what you do in game, it's not hard but it can only be taught, and veterans should be teaching people this cause if we all reject the anti social gaming it will hopefully turn into roleplay.

 I was not provoking and if it comes off like that I apologize and I am using the chatlog as only an example. I do know this player though do not know his status, if he was new to the server or anything. I've never really had an IG encounter with him before, I was in RP with him after a long PM chat about him wanting to be /groups rank
Club Friend and me responding saying we need to be actual friends in Roleplay, come hang out with us a little bit etc. and after a little bit trying to roleplay with him i realized he was just saying "ok can i be /groups rank" I thought maybe he couldn't Roleplay yet which is why I asked, or was maybe still in the newbie stages in which I still would have continued to Roleplay I have absolutely no problem with that. I was angry I agree but still, tried to roleplay with him and gave him an option to roleplay or leave basically because i could only get one response out haha.

Though I am having some of the best roleplay so far since I've been back so I'm thankful, but also a fair amount of this attitude.

I dont understand one thing,  and its not releated to Stof's topic;

So many people are bad girling about how no one is roleplaying, like, lets say at least 40 people from my personal experience has said that last 30-40 days, one would have thought those people that complain about it so much, would have to ran to each other at least 4-5 times per day right?
And if you ran into people who wants to roleplay and have at least the basic knowledge in it, then you wouldn't be complaining about how no one is roleplay right?

So its either people are being attention whores, or they only want to roleplay with people who has the same style/understanding/knowledge/level/callitwhateverthefuckuwant in roleplay, hence why they complain how very few are roleplayers.

Point is, don't walk away from a person just because his english is low, or his roleplaying skills isn't smooth and up to your almighty roleplay standards, don't stick only to people who you know are ultimate roleplayers, don't judge people just cause they are doing it wrong in your opinion, yet try teaching them, it wont take more then five minutes of your time anyway.


Yes, I'm talking also about in my timezone. Like if there's under 15 people on the server, it doesn't mean it has to be boring and just truck and grow drugs etc.

 I'm basically exposing this behavior and encouraging veterans on the server to not fall into these habits online and let people know when they're being anti social or whatever and promote roleplaying. Things can only change if you put some effort in. Especially if you're a new player or roleplaying skills aren't up to whatever bullshit standards there are I'm happy and hope everyone else on the server is happy to show them the ropes and answer what ever questions they have. 
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 12, 2015, 06:10:16 pm
Thought I would drop this in here;

8. Roleplaying
All players are required to roleplay at all times and are expected to roleplay within the boundaries of these rules.  This means player's cannot refuse to roleplay or behave in a manner that is clearly an attempt to ruin the situation that is currently on-going.  Failing to respond to /me and /em actions will be taken as refusal to roleplay.

If you wish to get out of the roleplay situation you are in then you must do so within roleplay boundaries, you cannot quit the game or simply run off or even have a staff member teleport you.  Those that do will simply be punished.

A portion of the recent adjustment of rules agreed upon by the SA:MP HQ team.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 12, 2015, 07:47:21 pm
Thought I would drop this in here;

A portion of the recent adjustment of rules agreed upon by the SA:MP HQ team.
Not a really possible stance.
- We can not decide if people need to quit or not (real life has prevalence over roleplay),
- We should allow for people to refuse being taken in to the same scenario on every step they take (for instance robbing, traffic controls).

We must encourage people to roleplay at all times, and if people are clearly not present to roleplay we can take measures. However it is impossible to oblige people to roleplay in every situation.
Please keep any changes to rules enforceable.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 12, 2015, 08:04:14 pm
Common sense does apply. They should not refuse roleplay however if they do need to leave they're welcome to leave the server.

No one is forced to stay in-game.

Of course, people shouldn't be forced to accept the same situations over and over like as you said "robbing" and so on. There are always ways in which you can turn a roleplay scenario around and that should not be forgotten.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 12, 2015, 08:15:48 pm
Common sense does apply. They should not refuse roleplay however if they do need to leave they're welcome to leave the server.

No one is forced to stay in-game.

Of course, people shouldn't be forced to accept the same situations over and over like as you said "robbing" and so on. There are always ways in which you can turn a roleplay scenario around and that should not be forgotten.
That is the ground for the long lasting 'forced roleplay'discussion. We have had cases where players felt they could not eat dinner or go to the shop as their parents asked because they were afraid they might be banned or lose membership of their group.
Common sense is not always common when you are involved with young adults  ;)
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 12, 2015, 08:24:25 pm
With that said, if someone does need to leave in the middle of a situation where they are involved with other players, they can at least let those other parties know that they have to go offline for some reason and leave instead of just closing the game mid roleplay.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 12, 2015, 08:35:52 pm
With that said, if someone does need to leave in the middle of a situation where they are involved with other players, they can at least let those other parties know that they have to go offline for some reason and leave instead of just closing the game mid roleplay.
don't know if I have the chat logs of 2007/2008, but they did and were more or less bullied in to remaining in game.
As you know every line of rules is looked at to exploit and used to advantage. The quote that you showed can be used for players to force others in to remianing in a situation they wish to get out of.
Apart from tht without the ability for admins to check the logs a lot of it will not be enforceable unless you feel the managers have not enough work to do.

Main guidline for rules : KISS (Keep it simple, stupid).
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on July 12, 2015, 09:12:02 pm
This is not the main case Gandalf, if they have to do something IRL or whatever regarding that, it should be fine for them to /q or go AFK(as we have some tools which shows someone's AFK or not). BUT people refuse to RP (mainly robbery and traffic stops scenarios) because they wanna go trucking 24/7 and earn virtual money which is not logical, money shouldn't be the purpose of their gameplay but a simple tool to make their gameplay abit easier. Mostly they use "/em(or /pm) I don't wanna RP with you" "/em(or /pm) I don't have time to RP with you IM TRUCKING! can't you see that?"
Indeed, people shouldn't be forced to accept the same situations over and over as they may get tired of it which is completely logical.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Benn on July 12, 2015, 09:17:19 pm
don't know if I have the chat logs of 2007/2008, but they did and were more or less bullied in to remaining in game.
As you know every line of rules is looked at to exploit and used to advantage. The quote that you showed can be used for players to force others in to remianing in a situation they wish to get out of.
Apart from tht without the ability for admins to check the logs a lot of it will not be enforceable unless you feel the managers have not enough work to do.

Main guidline for rules : KISS (Keep it simple, stupid).
You do understand that people started using your words to deny roleplay cases even if they had enough time to participate in one they prefered not to...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 12, 2015, 09:47:06 pm
This is not the main case Gandalf, if they have to do something IRL or whatever regarding that, it should be fine for them to /q or go AFK(as we have some tools which shows someone's AFK or not). BUT people refuse to RP (mainly robbery and traffic stops scenarios) because they wanna go trucking 24/7 and earn virtual money which is not logical, money shouldn't be the purpose of their gameplay but a simple tool to make their gameplay abit easier. Mostly they use "/em(or /pm) I don't wanna RP with you" "/em(or /pm) I don't have time to RP with you IM TRUCKING! can't you see that?"
Indeed, people shouldn't be forced to accept the same situations over and over as they may get tired of it which is completely logical.
You do understand that people started using your words to deny roleplay cases even if they had enough time to participate in one they prefered not to...

Both things are understood. The question is what are you wanting to do about it?
If someone sends such a PM to you report to a manager and get a log check for a tempban?
Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: AK47 on July 12, 2015, 10:03:09 pm
Both things are understood. The question is what are you wanting to do about it?
If someone sends such a PM to you report to a manager and get a log check for a tempban?
Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?

if they aren't interested they should be removed from the server
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Antonio. on July 13, 2015, 01:56:23 am
Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?
The point is being more strict about it. If players really do like the server, I don't see any of them leaving it because they are being told to roleplay. However if they have this thing in their head that makes them believe that they don't have to roleplay whenever they feel like it, a punishment or two will change this behaviour.

If they continue even after being punished a few times, then

if they aren't interested they should be removed from the server
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Leon. on July 13, 2015, 03:12:00 am
It would be rather difficult to enforce roleplaying given the atmosphere Argonath has had from the very beginning. However I believe some level of effort on enforcing the roleplay part of being an RPG server would really be beneficial in regards to keeping the server interesting. If somebody does not wish to roleplay for whatever reason at some given point of time, that's fine however there are a fair number of players who will avoid roleplay if the outcome of the RP might not be in their favor (e.g. GroupX rolls up on enemy GroupY with a full car, GroupY simply refuses any interaction) , and those who simply chronically refuse to acknowledge the fact that Argonath is an RPG server. People like this are toxic to the atmosphere Argonath provides, and reduces the dynamic that keeps things interesting - the roleplay. We should not stand by and enable this toxin to spread throughout the community. People who see people roleplay on a regular basis are more likely to engage, and as the number of those who engage in roleplay rises, the roleplay available will become increasingly dynamic - something that doesn't have to involve a robbery or gang war.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: wweman14 on July 13, 2015, 05:04:30 am
Kick for avoiding roleplay and 'no time for roleplay! :cop:

Looks like you'd ought to kick yourself from the other day, then. This server wasn't meant for testing mods last time I checked.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: CharlieKasper on July 13, 2015, 07:13:29 am
Looks like you'd ought to kick yourself from the other day, then. This server wasn't meant for testing mods last time I checked.
Well boo boo, sorry I didn't pick your call.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stof. on July 13, 2015, 11:52:12 am
^ This isn't the place to call each other out.

It would be rather difficult to enforce roleplaying given the atmosphere Argonath has had from the very beginning. However I believe some level of effort on enforcing the roleplay part of being an RPG server would really be beneficial in regards to keeping the server interesting. If somebody does not wish to roleplay for whatever reason at some given point of time, that's fine however there are a fair number of players who will avoid roleplay if the outcome of the RP might not be in their favor (e.g. GroupX rolls up on enemy GroupY with a full car, GroupY simply refuses any interaction) , and those who simply chronically refuse to acknowledge the fact that Argonath is an RPG server. People like this are toxic to the atmosphere Argonath provides, and reduces the dynamic that keeps things interesting - the roleplay. We should not stand by and enable this toxin to spread throughout the community. People who see people roleplay on a regular basis are more likely to engage, and as the number of those who engage in roleplay rises, the roleplay available will become increasingly dynamic - something that doesn't have to involve a robbery or gang war.

This is exactly right. It will be a fair amount of work in the beginning if we are to implement punishments and so on but the way that I see it is, once the rules have been set out right and enforced, I'm assuming people will catch the drift and start playing the game the way it's meant to be played. So, the work-load (hopefully) goes down after a while with less people non-RPing apart from new players who may need to be taught. I'm not at all saying to ban people for this, if anything a tempban to jump on the forums and study the server a bit, leading to ban eventually if they keep going. With help from the community we the Players+Admins can recognize/act on behaviours in game and avoid log checks. Usually if someone is being anti social or just foul, that doesn't up and change in a matter of minutes.     

 
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 13, 2015, 05:19:00 pm
I agree that people should be in the server to roleplay, and those who are present for another reason should be encouraged to find other venues. The issue however is always enforcement of rules.
We have always kept to the guideline that our admin team has to have evidence to punish, and will not punish on report of anyone simply because that leaves room for false reports. This means that if an admin gets a report "x refuses to roleplay" he is not alllowed to punish, but has to investigate. This should not change.

For those who wish to implement a stronger obligation to roleplay, here is asituation that I know happened.
Player Some_Mafia is going from Pershing Square after being released to a family meeting. After 2 streets he is stopped by a cop who seems to be interested in a long check of the car and person. Can he tell the player that he is busy going to a meeting and has no time or would he be 'forced' to roleplay along with the check? What if this one is finished and three streets further another police officer attempts the same?
What if when het gets out near the meeting there is another player who wants to roleplay a robbery?
If he is forced to go along with all of them, the meeting will probably be over by the time he gets there.

Now a second situation. Noob_Player goes up to a street gang and says 'hi'. He gets the message to go away because they do not play with noobs. Can he report the street gang  for not being willing to roleplay?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Spike. on July 13, 2015, 05:26:54 pm
Now a second situation. Noob_Player goes up to a street gang and says 'hi'. He gets the message to go away because they do not play with noobs. Can he report the street gang  for not being willing to roleplay?

Yes he would be able to the thing is, would his RP level be of a similar level to the gang's or is he one of those who RPs, "/me takes a gun out of his ass and shoots the balla because he's back".
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: AK47 on July 13, 2015, 05:38:50 pm
For those who wish to implement a stronger obligation to roleplay, here is asituation that I know happened.
Player Some_Mafia is going from Pershing Square after being released to a family meeting. After 2 streets he is stopped by a cop who seems to be interested in a long check of the car and person. Can he tell the player that he is busy going to a meeting and has no time or would he be 'forced' to roleplay along with the check? What if this one is finished and three streets further another police officer attempts the same?

i see this as lack of communication between the officers then, but of course he should stop of he is being pulled over

What if when het gets out near the meeting there is another player who wants to roleplay a robbery?

he should go along with the robbery and try to contact his fellow mafiafriends, and if he fails he can always go to them after and then they can take action on the robber

Now a second situation. Noob_Player goes up to a street gang and says 'hi'. He gets the message to go away because they do not play with noobs. Can he report the street gang  for not being willing to roleplay?

depends, if he just says "hi" the problem lies with the other players if they just ignore him or tell him to go away, and they should be talked to ofcourse but as fernando said, is he an direct asspuller or just a guy with small wordusage
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Benn on July 13, 2015, 07:48:18 pm
Alot of what have been said in Argonath Vision has changed, and this is probably why you're disappointed.
Argonath Vision stated clearly that SAPD will never be closed and joined by applications only...but it did happen.
Argonath Vision also stated that you're not forced to roleplay but now we are.
At first it was hard to accept but we eventually did.
Of course I loved how the server was, thats what kept me in it but I do still love it now.
and if you ask me which one I prefer the old vision or the new one I would say RS4. but sadly thats no longer an option
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 13, 2015, 08:27:20 pm
Yes he would be able to the thing is, would his RP level be of a similar level to the gang's or is he one of those who RPs, "/me takes a gun out of his ass and shoots the balla because he's back".
Considering the age of SA:MP a new player might have higher skills as the street gang, the only way to find out is to engage in roleplay.

But what is your answer on the first situation?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Spike. on July 13, 2015, 08:34:31 pm
But what is your answer on the first situation?

I would say he should role play with the cop and simply tell the other family members through an out of RP message that he got trapped in a role play and will take a little longer.
In real life (Don't bring up that this is not an IRL server because a RP server is meant to be realistic no?) if you get stopped by a cop you can't just say "Sorry I am busy, stop me later today).
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Que on July 13, 2015, 08:55:33 pm
If maintaining a wide player base with good intentions of roleplaying, we need to be harder on the ones who prefer irrelevant and pretty unnecessary nonsense whatsoever. Of course, everyone can enjoy the main chat and its pretty weird and unique discussions, but if a roleplay scenario pops up where you, as a player is involved somehow, that should be your priority at all times. If someone needs to log off at some point because of something personal, I am more than willing to let that person go, but just to doing the regular and old "sorry I don't have time for this" or "sorry, i am bored cba to do it" - then they should honestly not be on the server at all. Every scenario that is created in game has an unique tone that you can develop however you want while being in it. Blaming others for "the same old robbery" or "the same old police arrest" is just a way of being uninventive and uncreative. Make something good out of it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 13, 2015, 09:22:44 pm
i see this as lack of communication between the officers then, but of course he should stop of he is being pulled over

he should go along with the robbery and try to contact his fellow mafiafriends, and if he fails he can always go to them after and then they can take action on the robber

depends, if he just says "hi" the problem lies with the other players if they just ignore him or tell him to go away, and they should be talked to ofcourse but as fernando said, is he an direct asspuller or just a guy with small wordusage
You actually mean that isf you get held up on your way to a meeting by 5 different people who will take at least 10 minutes you must just allow them?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 13, 2015, 09:29:02 pm
Alot of what have been said in Argonath Vision has changed, and this is probably why you're disappointed.
Argonath Vision stated clearly that SAPD will never be closed and joined by applications only...but it did happen.
Argonath Vision also stated that you're not forced to roleplay but now we are.
At first it was hard to accept but we eventually did.
Of course I loved how the server was, thats what kept me in it but I do still love it now.
and if you ask me which one I prefer the old vision or the new one I would say RS4. but sadly thats no longer an option
It has nothing to do with disappointment, remember I can stop and turn around the changes would I be against trying.
As for SAPD, one of the planned changes in RS5 was new cops taking a trainin course of one week until being able to go in to uniform.
The one difference is that we planned it to be automated instead of by people, for a simple reason. Unless SAPD training staff can be present equal among all time zones, a personalized training put players at a disadvantage.This means if we get complaints from players that they can not join SAPD because there are never trainers on, SAPD will have a problem in keeping it within the current system.

As for forced to roleplay, the intent was never to allow players getting away with lame excuses. The intent was to disallow players being forced to partake in a scenario they have zero interest in because else they might be punished. For me that is close to cyberbullying.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Rusty on July 13, 2015, 09:39:05 pm
Why would you refuse?  It's role-play no matter if the same thing just happened five times before within ten minutes.  It's a nasty city out there loaded with criminals.
You just get laughed at if you said "sorry guys can't do this right now about to have a Mafia meeting at our HQ bye!"

Being robbed five times in a row might be daunting but not every robbery will be the same, you might get some crazy drug addict trying to hold you up for $200 or a street gang looking to take your cellphone and shoes.  Opportunity comes round go with it not brush it off because you have a meeting, like Emmett said call for back-up.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 13, 2015, 10:12:30 pm
Why would you refuse?  It's role-play no matter if the same thing just happened five times before within ten minutes.  It's a nasty city out there loaded with criminals.
You just get laughed at if you said "sorry guys can't do this right now about to have a Mafia meeting at our HQ bye!"

Being robbed five times in a row might be daunting but not every robbery will be the same, you might get some crazy drug addict trying to hold you up for $200 or a street gang looking to take your cellphone and shoes.  Opportunity comes round go with it not brush it off because you have a meeting, like Emmett said call for back-up.
I wonder if you would feel the same without the capability to disappear....
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: psyron on July 13, 2015, 10:20:12 pm
remove /area and blips on the radar. lets roleplay then. realistic as it can get
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Benn on July 13, 2015, 10:29:43 pm
It has nothing to do with disappointment, remember I can stop and turn around the changes would I be against trying.
As for SAPD, one of the planned changes in RS5 was new cops taking a trainin course of one week until being able to go in to uniform.
The one difference is that we planned it to be automated instead of by people, for a simple reason. Unless SAPD training staff can be present equal among all time zones, a personalized training put players at a disadvantage.This means if we get complaints from players that they can not join SAPD because there are never trainers on, SAPD will have a problem in keeping it within the current system.

As for forced to roleplay, the intent was never to allow players getting away with lame excuses. The intent was to disallow players being forced to partake in a scenario they have zero interest in because else they might be punished. For me that is close to cyberbullying.
Well I believe Scripters honoured SAPD Staff request to turn it closed group because cops were very abusive RPing curropts cops and didn't get copbanned which gave them alot of fun time and pissed few other players pulling them over and shooting them to death claiming they were curropt and sadly admins didn't do anything about it since RPing curropt officer that is a serial killer was allowed back then.... I wish a great leadership will appear in game to change, an idol that will lead greatest RP that doesn't include killing, DMing in all scenes like Frank Hawk, SAPD old leaders and Families Old leaders, I am not criticising current leader I know many leaders who are doing a great job Like Nexus, Trane and a few more but still thats not enough a server that have reached such a great quality back in the old days shouldn't ever be brought down.
We don't need scripts as much as we need great leadership
I tried to perform a leadership figure but I failed, I guess I don't have the leadership skills that people are looking for....
BTW to not be disrespectfull Cheers to the Scripters, you did an amazing job this couple monthes especially Teddy, thank you for your time!!!

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Rusty on July 13, 2015, 10:41:07 pm
I wonder if you would feel the same without the capability to disappear....

Because I can /aduty and disappear from the map or teleport away doesn't give me right to just move away when role-playing cause I don't like.  Don't use my admin account for role-playing that's why I have another.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 13, 2015, 10:49:13 pm
I wonder if you would feel the same without the capability to disappear....

Starting to look like you have missed things since you haven't been in-game since February.  :kilt:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 13, 2015, 11:22:28 pm
Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?

Most people wouldn't be interested in being the victim in a roleplay situation, so that ideology is flawed within a roleplay community.
The players need to lose the mindset of losing things which leads to them not wanting to roleplay and get to grasp the idea of roleplay and the fact that you will lose things at times.

If people can't get over that fact then they're on the wrong server and in the wrong community.
Paruni is open for those that just want to run around shooting.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Que on July 13, 2015, 11:41:33 pm
remove /area and blips on the radar. lets roleplay then. realistic as it can get
When it comes to /area, it is the most overused and worst way to catch anyone on the map, doesn't matter if it's a gang member or a criminal or even someone that you just want to extort for fun, you can just type it in and voilá - you know where he is at. For me, there's no other command in-game that I hate so much than this one, and yet here I am using it today. It's such a waste of progressive roleplay that could be done before the actual finding of the individual or the disappearance from someone. I can't honestly pick a good thing about it.

The players need to lose the mindset of losing things which leads to them not wanting to roleplay and get to grasp the idea of roleplay and the fact that you will lose things at times.
This.

I do realize it's a hard run trying to change this around, but it actually possible. You win and you lose. Most of us who's been around for a long time have already grown into this and for us, there's no biggie about losing. But I can probably say that if I started to play in younger years, I wouldn't really thought the same, pretty much because of my juvenile attitude and its normal behavior in these years.

I think it's possible to change, since it's obviously virtual money and virtual money is nothing important; but it is be for young teens knowing less about relevant things.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 13, 2015, 11:43:19 pm
I wonder if you would feel the same without the capability to disappear....

You seem to have the most experience in this...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Benn on July 13, 2015, 11:46:16 pm
Most people wouldn't be interested in being the victim in a roleplay situation, so that ideology is flawed within a roleplay community.
The players need to lose the mindset of losing things which leads to them not wanting to roleplay and get to grasp the idea of roleplay and the fact that you will lose things at times.

If people can't get over that fact then they're on the wrong server and in the wrong community.
Paruni is open for those that just want to run around shooting.
We have survived since 2009(Maybe even before but the topic was made in 2009) with this same vision basically the changes was in the players this days... people no longer want to roleplay because we don't have leaders who pushes people into interacting with others who are here to roleplay and not just for trucking and working.
We can't change alot in the vision just because we are facing a few changes thats atleast what I think, for now you already changed aloooot in the vision I am learning to accept the changes it still does bug me but I do agree with it.... but if you do too many changes then the server won't be Argonath anymore it will turn into a whole new server Argonath Vision and history is what makes it special and different than other RP servers
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Tiny on July 13, 2015, 11:46:38 pm
I've been reading so many theories about solutions and changes lately, yet I see none of you online and contributing so they can take place. While the forums are full of 'we should do this and that', in-game there are 30-35 players, and about 10-15 are roleplaying.

Things are simple, get your shit together and go do some roleplay in-game. This is what needs to be changed. It's easy to find out problems and then start talking about solutions, I can do it all day, but instead, I rather go in-game and have some actual fun. 
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Rei on July 13, 2015, 11:48:41 pm
I've been reading so many theories about solutions and changes lately, yet I see none of you online and contributing so they can take place. While the forums are full of 'we should do this and that', in-game there are 30-35 players, and about 10-15 are roleplaying.

Things are simple, get your shit together and go do some roleplay in-game. This is what needs to be changed. It's easy to find out problems and then start talking about solutions, I can do it all day, but instead, I rather go in-game and have some actual fun.

 :app:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 13, 2015, 11:59:56 pm
We have survived since 2009(Maybe even before but the topic was made in 2009) with this same vision basically the changes was in the players this days... people no longer want to roleplay because we don't have leaders who pushes people into interacting with others who are here to roleplay and not just for trucking and working.
We can't change alot in the vision just because we are facing a few changes thats atleast what I think, for now you already changed aloooot in the vision I am learning to accept the changes it still does bug me but I do agree with it.... but if you do too many changes then the server won't be Argonath anymore it will turn into a whole new server Argonath Vision and history is what makes it special and different than other RP servers

I don't want to break anyone's heart but the vision is a document created years ago that people seem to keep mistaking for a holy book that everything must go through to be created or done.
The server is going in the direction of what would best suit the community, not a few paragraphs of text keeping things in one direction whilst those that deserve to be here push for another.

We really do not need a vision of a wizard defining any and all changes whilst the majority of the community that roleplays looks for more from the server.
We are keeping the server in line with what Argonath stands for but cleaning out the bullshit and the trash in the process of tidying up the entire place.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Volcom on July 14, 2015, 12:07:28 am
I've been reading so many theories about solutions and changes lately, yet I see none of you online and contributing so they can take place. While the forums are full of 'we should do this and that', in-game there are 30-35 players, and about 10-15 are roleplaying.

Things are simple, get your shit together and go do some roleplay in-game. This is what needs to be changed. It's easy to find out problems and then start talking about solutions, I can do it all day, but instead, I rather go in-game and have some actual fun.

 :app: :gand:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Manoni on July 14, 2015, 12:14:48 am
We have survived since 2009(Maybe even before but the topic was made in 2009) with this same vision basically the changes was in the players this days... people no longer want to roleplay because we don't have leaders who pushes people into interacting with others who are here to roleplay and not just for trucking and working.
We can't change alot in the vision just because we are facing a few changes thats atleast what I think, for now you already changed aloooot in the vision I am learning to accept the changes it still does bug me but I do agree with it.... but if you do too many changes then the server won't be Argonath anymore it will turn into a whole new server Argonath Vision and history is what makes it special and different than other RP servers

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48339001/thatsright.gif)

The vision is old, outdated, even in some cases is incorrect in relation to how the roleplay should be. We need these changes, we can't stay with some old ideals and expect to have everything like it used to be, because it simply not going to happen. People has changed, new people have come, we must give a try on new stuff for the sake of the community, sticking to live in the past could be the downfall of the future of Argonath and it has been seen well enough.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Cofiliano on July 14, 2015, 01:08:26 am
You can read lots of interesting things in thic topic. Between the lines..
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Benn on July 14, 2015, 01:46:38 am
The vision aswell is what kept the server like this for so long... imagine if the vision was different or we didn't have a vision the server would have looked alot more different than now might be good different might be bad different but still different...
So we can all agree that the original server always kept the vision as important as the rules of the server and worked by it...
Now as I said I am not against changing the vision but I am against deleting it, removing it or vandalise it.
I believe adding a few changes is into the vision might do well to the server but you can't just delete it and still call this community Argonath since the vision was partially moral more than physical, it disscussed how all players had the right to be in ARPD so we could all be treated equally and it also discussed not forcing RP on people because it was considered morally wrong.
You have to look on the vision from different perspective from what Gandalf thought when he wrote it and why he wrote it this way...
I myself didn't know all that but I did keep up with Gandalfs posts and learnt his perspective and I must say holding a server for over 6 years successfully shows actions of a wise man.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Que on July 14, 2015, 02:13:27 am
Let's talk a little bit about "the vision". What is a vision? A vision is obviously something you have when you start something up, where you want to be later on in your progress and it's something you use to stay in between the lines and not falling out. With that said, it was nearly ten years since Argonath once opened up and was created.

What does that vision to with anything these days except a previous goal of what Argonath once wanted to be? We are talking about "the vision" as something that can't be changed, that does not change by years and that is written in stone that we cannot touch. From my own experience, a vision changes by time and from what I've experienced with Argonath, that vision is still remaining the same old, grudgy, dark toned one that has prevent us from changing anything with the previous development team.

So what is our vision now, approximately ten years after the brand new release of this community?
Is it to develop further? Get on to the hosted list and get more players onto the server? Serve our member base with updates that is actually aimed towards a better future?
Where do we start? What is the actual plan that is TODAY'S VISION of tomorrow and forward? Do we even have one?

The player amount has gone from less to less, where the players has gone to other communities or quit playing. We never took care of the roleplay quality who has gone to LS:RP or other communities just because they felt Argonath never developed or did any changes to make types of progress when it comes to roleplay. Don't use "but this game is from the stone age", because if you open your eyes, there are still multiple roleplay servers that has a 500 of 500 players every damn day". I get what your saying about keeping the soul of Argonath. But in my world, I rather have a community that is more into developing and making progress even today, than being one that is so deeply into its past so they can't even see the future. It has even been tabu in the previous years to talk about LS:RP, like I do now. You'd even be censored if you did. Instead of taking what they've done by re-keeping their player base, growing widely and contributed radically to SA:MP in general, we have forbidden to talk about that. And yes, if remaining within an old gooey vision of what has been the past is what the future will look like, then I wish you the best of luck and I'm saying good bye for the last time.

Excuse my french but it was needed since it was from the deepest into my heart.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 14, 2015, 02:54:46 am
The vision aswell is what kept the server like this for so long... imagine if the vision was different or we didn't have a vision the server would have looked alot more different than now might be good different might be bad different but still different...
So we can all agree that the original server always kept the vision as important as the rules of the server and worked by it...
Now as I said I am not against changing the vision but I am against deleting it, removing it or vandalise it.
I believe adding a few changes is into the vision might do well to the server but you can't just delete it and still call this community Argonath since the vision was partially moral more than physical, it disscussed how all players had the right to be in ARPD so we could all be treated equally and it also discussed not forcing RP on people because it was considered morally wrong.
You have to look on the vision from different perspective from what Gandalf thought when he wrote it and why he wrote it this way...
I myself didn't know all that but I did keep up with Gandalfs posts and learnt his perspective and I must say holding a server for over 6 years successfully shows actions of a wise man.

It's easy to run a server when others do your job for you during unanswered months and months of negligence due to inactivity and real life commitments.
Enough said.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Leroy on July 14, 2015, 05:51:09 am
Snip

So what kind of changes would you suggest Que, realistically? If you have any ideas in mind.

I feel like perhaps discussing concrete ideas would help rather than alluding to the idea of change - Even though it is still constructive.

I do partly agree though such as the need for discussing the vision. I have had contact with the main management about some relative stuff a while back. They do have the servers' best interest at heart but I believe the problem is change can alienate some players within the community even if it's made in a positive light.

You may have a perspective of your own however it might conflict with someone else's, and those who decide on this have to balance this fairly. I think the way forward is collectively organising to properly discuss concrete changes with pure justifications and leaving behind any bias and considering the kinds of rippling affects this may have on different players and the integrity of rules - All perspectives.

I feel this is more about the survival of the community for the years to come and growth of the world we've been able to play and enjoy for so many years. Therefore we need to forget our factions, affiliations and bias and come together as community who wish to see this continue whilst keeping true to some core principles that set our community apart, but wiggle room for change and a real incentive for effort.

This post in itself is not a solution, but perhaps a path towards finding it, I just believe if we can organise as much as possible to discuss X amount of things sequentially and in an organised way, then present it to the HQ without any disruptions/moaning (as some may do), we might be able to take steps forward. However these things still take time as everything cannot be ran as a pure democracy, decision makers are there to keep things in control, so a majority of opinions are beneficial, to aid them, or at least consider any kind of change.

The issue in my eyes is everyone has ideas but no one is focussing on them together enough to form a collective opinion as a community to keep things balanced.

When it boils down to it, as much as we forget; the owners are humans too and cannot have all these ideas in their mind (plus the implementation difficulties) - Imagine dozens if not almost hundreds of players moaning at you at different perspectives most of the time, so we need to work with them together as a cooperating community.

You do care and I respect that, we just need to get more people to care like so and provide tangible solutions. We can very easily become a part of the problem if we complain but cannot reach real conclusions.


My two cents.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:30:17 am
It's easy to run a server when others do your job for you during unanswered months and months of negligence due to inactivity and real life commitments.
Enough said.

and then when said person does show up they start fights with players on the forums rather than answer the person(s) actually doing their job. Interesting isn't it? Ignoring the people doing all the heavy lifting. Not surprising however from the person who finds no value in anyone, only a person to do the job and replace when they get tired.

Actually on topic, Que has some ideas that I think are in the right direction from what I've seen. and what I see in this topic is nothing but negativity and very few people actually caring to make progress. If you'd pull your heads out of your ass for a second and see how you are bitching at others for actually trying to make progress rather than actually make progress... perhaps we could actually reach compromises that move this community forward... together.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Kalvin on July 14, 2015, 08:09:19 am
And actually talking about all these points, I'd love to include my part. I won't be showing the admin's name but well if this is how the thing will roll, it is surely bad for everyone.

Saturday, July 11

Situation: We were following a guy from a rivalry group for a little time. He was trucking and all. After sometime, he entered LV and there we told him to stop. He didn't and told us to fuck off. After the several warnings and in response to his actions, we simply took out his tires and there he reported us to an administrator who told us to 'roleplay something else plz' because 'robbery/kidnap shit is old'
I say, it was just another face of 'I am not in mood for roleplay pls go away'

Here, read the log and grace yourself with the administration who will tell us what to roleplay and who to mercy with 'pls no mood for roleplay, im trucking, go away'

[18:44:36] Roberto_Cardenas(0) shouts: Pendejo, stop your fuckin' ass right now!!

He didn't stop and kept driving, although we continously rammed and warned him to stop.

[18:44:52] ******_******(42) shouts: Fuck off!!
[18:44:58] Roberto_Cardenas(0) shouts: Last warning, puto!!
[18:45:06] Roberto_Cardenas(0) shouts: I am not sayin' again!!

I shooted and took out all his tyres and then this happened.

[18:45:24] Admin(32) says: Hi

[18:45:29] Admin(32) says: Why shooting him?

[18:45:29] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: Hello.

[18:45:37] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: Not complying after several warnings
+The 'fuck off' and flaming he did.

[18:45:38] Paco_Gonzalez(40) says: Hi

[18:45:46] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: Burst out his tires
(We simply took out his tires, not the whole truck)

[18:45:46] Admin(32) says: not a reason to shoot

[18:45:57] Paco_Gonzalez(40) says: Just going for some friendly robbery

[18:46:23] Admin(32) says: RP something else plz
And here administration will tell us what to roleplay and what not to.

[18:46:28] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: Why?

[18:46:30] Admin(32) says: Use imaginations

[18:46:39] Admin(32) says: Kidnap, Robbery is old shit

[18:46:42] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: Roleplay and imaginations are different things, I suppose.

[18:46:46] ***[1800] Paco_Gonzalez(40): lets do something else

[18:46:47] ***[1800] Paco_Gonzalez(40): meh

[18:46:49] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: What are new?

[18:47:08] Paco_Gonzalez(40) says: ok, we'll think of something else slavik. sorry

[18:47:15] Admin(32) says: RP something that does not involve killing someone

[18:47:22] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: We didn't kill him.

[18:47:22] Admin(32) says: THank you

[18:47:30] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: nor blasted his car.

[18:47:30] ***[1800] Paco_Gonzalez(40): just forget it roberto

[18:47:45] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: And now administration will tell us what to roleplay and what not to roleplay.

[18:47:59] ***[1800] Paco_Gonzalez(40): ser no argue with them pls

[18:48:10] Roberto_Cardenas(0) says: Literally dude?





Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Luca Man on July 14, 2015, 08:21:56 am
Besides of the roleplay anti-social attitude, people are anti-social almost always. For example, yesterday I asked something on /p and no one even bothered to answer. Just 2 - 3 guys said that they would answer my question after a sarcastic phrase of mine (''Thanks for the wave of answers, appreciated.''), but I told them that I didn't want the answer anymore. Really, people, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are we all playing together or just the ''fancy guys'' are to be played with? I am not pointing out fingers, but guys like Monte or Louise or whoever, who are considered ''famous'', always have attention priority, while others never exist. I really find it boring to join the server and just always play for my own, just because all others are busy asslicking the ''famous guys''. These things have to stop sometime.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stivi on July 14, 2015, 09:31:01 am
won't be showing the admin's name but well if this is how the thing will roll, it is surely bad for everyone.
I'm sorry but you gave it away, it's okay though. He tends to do this. And no, not every admin does this. Actually, he's the only one as far as I know.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:02:27 am
Well I believe Scripters honoured SAPD Staff request to turn it closed group because cops were very abusive RPing curropts cops and didn't get copbanned which gave them alot of fun time and pissed few other players pulling them over and shooting them to death claiming they were curropt and sadly admins didn't do anything about it since RPing curropt officer that is a serial killer was allowed back then.... I wish a great leadership will appear in game to change, an idol that will lead greatest RP that doesn't include killing, DMing in all scenes like Frank Hawk, SAPD old leaders and Families Old leaders, I am not criticising current leader I know many leaders who are doing a great job Like Nexus, Trane and a few more but still thats not enough a server that have reached such a great quality back in the old days shouldn't ever be brought down.
We don't need scripts as much as we need great leadership
I tried to perform a leadership figure but I failed, I guess I don't have the leadership skills that people are looking for....
BTW to not be disrespectfull Cheers to the Scripters, you did an amazing job this couple monthes especially Teddy, thank you for your time!!!
The SAPD is doing a much better job as the cops in the original game. Guess not many remember the storyline...
Besides that there should be room for currupt cops, even if they do risk getting fired.
The thing is that SAPD having a less accessible structure was already planned long ago, even if SAPD at the time were not happy with it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:06:21 am
Most people wouldn't be interested in being the victim in a roleplay situation, so that ideology is flawed within a roleplay community.
The players need to lose the mindset of losing things which leads to them not wanting to roleplay and get to grasp the idea of roleplay and the fact that you will lose things at times.

If people can't get over that fact then they're on the wrong server and in the wrong community.
Paruni is open for those that just want to run around shooting.
It is not about winning or losing but about doing the same stupid shit 100 times a day. That is what makes people tired.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:10:55 am
I don't want to break anyone's heart but the vision is a document created years ago that people seem to keep mistaking for a holy book that everything must go through to be created or done.
The server is going in the direction of what would best suit the community, not a few paragraphs of text keeping things in one direction whilst those that deserve to be here push for another.

We really do not need a vision of a wizard defining any and all changes whilst the majority of the community that roleplays looks for more from the server.
We are keeping the server in line with what Argonath stands for but cleaning out the bullshit and the trash in the process of tidying up the entire place.

The vision is as valid today as it was in the past.
Unless you feel that we should advantage some players over others, punish people without reason and feel yourself better as others because you have been given some power.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:13:24 am
I've been reading so many theories about solutions and changes lately, yet I see none of you online and contributing so they can take place. While the forums are full of 'we should do this and that', in-game there are 30-35 players, and about 10-15 are roleplaying.

Things are simple, get your shit together and go do some roleplay in-game. This is what needs to be changed. It's easy to find out problems and then start talking about solutions, I can do it all day, but instead, I rather go in-game and have some actual fun.
That is usual. When people make a big fuss about changes and 'level' of roleplay always first check if they are actually playing.
Most are just trolling and recruiting.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:15:17 am
It's easy to run a server when others do your job for you during unanswered months and months of negligence due to inactivity and real life commitments.
Enough said.
If that is how you do it you need to quit.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Andeey on July 14, 2015, 10:22:19 am
Enough bs... this topic just turned toxic.  how about the Veterans of the server step up and teach players like they used to?  people wouldn't do such stupid things and call it roleplay.. but if everyone just trucks and sits at pershing square/afking things wont change.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 14, 2015, 10:24:19 am
Enough bs... this topic just turned toxic.  how about the Veterans of the server step up and teach players like they used to?  people wouldn't do such stupid things and call it roleplay.. but if everyone just trucks and sits at pershing square/afking things wont change.
You are aware of how some veterans are treated, right?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Andeey on July 14, 2015, 10:27:41 am
You are aware of how some veterans are treated, right?
I'm not treated bad or anything, i still continue to roleplay daily...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 14, 2015, 10:32:13 am
I'm not treated bad or anything, i still continue to roleplay daily...
It may not apply to you, or to me, but there are numerous examples where roleplay is destroyed before it can actually happen.

There should be no (or minimal) admin involvement in roleplay, nor should explicit trolling and non-rp behavior be allowed. Veterans should indeed be teaching newcomers, but we have to accept that some newcomers cannot or will not learn, those can be dealt with by admins.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Manoni on July 14, 2015, 10:35:56 am
If that is how you do it you need to quit.


Right, tell the active leadership to quit, great move.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:44:10 am
Let's talk a little bit about "the vision". What is a vision? A vision is obviously something you have when you start something up, where you want to be later on in your progress and it's something you use to stay in between the lines and not falling out. With that said, it was nearly ten years since Argonath once opened up and was created.

What does that vision to with anything these days except a previous goal of what Argonath once wanted to be? We are talking about "the vision" as something that can't be changed, that does not change by years and that is written in stone that we cannot touch. From my own experience, a vision changes by time and from what I've experienced with Argonath, that vision is still remaining the same old, grudgy, dark toned one that has prevent us from changing anything with the previous development team.

So what is our vision now, approximately ten years after the brand new release of this community?
Is it to develop further? Get on to the hosted list and get more players onto the server? Serve our member base with updates that is actually aimed towards a better future?
Where do we start? What is the actual plan that is TODAY'S VISION of tomorrow and forward? Do we even have one?

The player amount has gone from less to less, where the players has gone to other communities or quit playing. We never took care of the roleplay quality who has gone to LS:RP or other communities just because they felt Argonath never developed or did any changes to make types of progress when it comes to roleplay. Don't use "but this game is from the stone age", because if you open your eyes, there are still multiple roleplay servers that has a 500 of 500 players every damn day". I get what your saying about keeping the soul of Argonath. But in my world, I rather have a community that is more into developing and making progress even today, than being one that is so deeply into its past so they can't even see the future. It has even been tabu in the previous years to talk about LS:RP, like I do now. You'd even be censored if you did. Instead of taking what they've done by re-keeping their player base, growing widely and contributed radically to SA:MP in general, we have forbidden to talk about that. And yes, if remaining within an old gooey vision of what has been the past is what the future will look like, then I wish you the best of luck and I'm saying good bye for the last time.

Excuse my french but it was needed since it was from the deepest into my heart.
Keep ranting as you want, but the thing that has become very obvious with the change to RS5 is that the one reason other communities are visited has nothing to do with the roleplay. They use a commercial model where people have to pay to get what they desire, and as a result people will hang on because they have invested not just time but also money in their account, which makes it a shame to give it up.
The reason player countr dropped with RS5 was, apart from the script being nowhere how it was supposed to be, people lost what they felt they worked for even if there was never real money involved. This is why a community that uses a commercial model thrives, and why there are still communities that people continue to play.
Without a commercial model, we have never been able to grow to this level and while we did discuss between owners such a change, we decided not to go for it. Reasoning is that we provide this as a hobby for the community and do not want to turn it in to a business while depending on others for most things.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:45:16 am
Right, tell the active leadership to quit, great move.
You did not get it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:46:55 am
It may not apply to you, or to me, but there are numerous examples where roleplay is destroyed before it can actually happen.

There should be no (or minimal) admin involvement in roleplay, nor should explicit trolling and non-rp behavior be allowed. Veterans should indeed be teaching newcomers, but we have to accept that some newcomers cannot or will not learn, those can be dealt with by admins.
Exactly how it should be. Unfortunately people make it way too complicated.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Johan_S on July 14, 2015, 11:04:38 am
Hello Gandalf, obviously the reset (as you said above) affected on player loss. However i think when RS 5 released wasn't even in Alpha or Beta format. For my self i never gave up i'm still continuing every day with my faction but some other veterans need standards. Standards which your old scripting team (with all the respect that we may have for their contribution in RS4) never thought of. Now the current scripters are trying to do what was needed to be done a year or two years ago, we are hoping for the new features which i guess it's matter of days or weeks. With upcoming of the new features we can continue work for the player count, and even donations in that old paypal account.

Trust me is very difficult to keep new players in our server with current status that we are. We need more and more interesting things to give joy and motivation to new players and old veterans. You know Skype has /me and there's no difference between skype and our server. It's been chatroom for a long time now.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Tiny on July 14, 2015, 11:05:26 am
That is usual. When people make a big fuss about changes and 'level' of roleplay always first check if they are actually playing.
Most are just trolling and recruiting.

Those who are trolling in-game don't even bother posting a long sentence here, sadly it's the 'veterans' who do it.

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 11:20:55 am
Hello Gandalf, obviously the reset (as you said above) affected on player loss. However i think when RS 5 released wasn't even in Alpha or Beta format. For my self i never gave up i'm still continuing every day with my faction but some other veterans need standards. Standards which your old scripting team (with all the respect that we may have for their contribution in RS4) never thought of. Now the current scripters are trying to do what was needed to be done a year or two years ago, we are hoping for the new features which i guess it's matter of days or weeks. With upcoming of the new features we can continue work for the player count, and even donations in that old paypal account.

Trust me is very difficult to keep new players in our server with current status that we are. We need more and more interesting things to give joy and motivation to new players and old veterans. You know Skype has /me and there's no difference between skype and our server. It's been chatroom for a long time now.
The problem is that I am a dinosaur who know the time when you roleplayed without any scripts.
Indeed you can roleplay over Skype if needed, and this is what people fail to understand.
Scripts are just an added feature but even the best script will not create a full server instantly. The atmosphere and how administration handles things are much more important.
As for RS5, it was released because there was not a viable alternative at the time, but the script team deviated far from the original plans.
Reason was simply the lack of ability to solve things. Continuing script on the base of RS3/4 was much easier as creating something new, and this is why a lot of mistakes that seemed to belong in the time of first release of RS3 were made.
On top of that the scripting team did not understand the direction of the plans, which was to tackle the main points of conflict between players and administration as well as to supply a more even distribution of opportunities. There for a lot of features were watered down or written only partially. I hope the current team can dig up the original layout and see how the current RS5 can be turned more in to that.

But still the main point is how people are in game, and how people are allowed to be in game.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 14, 2015, 11:22:29 am
Hello Gandalf, obviously the reset (as you said above) affected on player loss. However i think when RS 5 released wasn't even in Alpha or Beta format. For my self i never gave up i'm still continuing every day with my faction but some other veterans need standards. Standards which your old scripting team (with all the respect that we may have for their contribution in RS4) never thought of. Now the current scripters are trying to do what was needed to be done a year or two years ago, we are hoping for the new features which i guess it's matter of days or weeks. With upcoming of the new features we can continue work for the player count, and even donations in that old paypal account.

Trust me is very difficult to keep new players in our server with current status that we are. We need more and more interesting things to give joy and motivation to new players and old veterans. You know Skype has /me and there's no difference between skype and our server. It's been chatroom for a long time now.
Agree.
Since SAPD was restricted, server doesn't go over 60 players. New players have nothing to do, being a mechanic - boring, Being a trucker - lonely driving across the long map, Fireman is the only proper choice, yet takes ages for a mission to appear. Being police officer was the only thing that kept these new players interested as it contained constant action.
We need new jobs scripted and current ones improved so there's something to do.

For example - firemen, missions should be made more often. And other players can be involved. Let's say somebody crashes their vehicle, the black smoke starts - engine can't be turned on and the doors are stuck. Since nobody in Argonath roleplays traffic accident, it can be a nice fire mission. Cut the doors open, secure the vehicle to prevent fire and so on...

Then medics - that job is dead since the very beginning of RS5. There's absolutely nothing to do with that job. It'd be nice if SAFD has a division of EMS as well, and SAFD being more active by managing their members and enforcing the rules, making sure their members are performing their duties properly. That way, it can be made so if you die, you are not actually dead yet, but are on the ground injured, so people can call EMS if they see you laying down. At least it'd be some work for those on EMS duty.

Mechanics - when somebody's vehicle is severely damaged to the point where grey-black smoke appears, the engine should stall and be unable to turn back on. Or just constantly turn off at random times.
Players would need to require mechanics to tow it or fix it at the spot. Again, it's something to do instead of freeroaming around pointlessly.

With all that said, all we need are improved jobs with more to do. They should be interesting and addicting, giving you continuous action. And with continuous action, they should also give you pay for the things you do on the job. That's one way to keep new players in the server. Because obviously, there's nothing else interesting to do beside either joining a mafia/gang or applying for SAPD/FBI (which you can't as you need license, passport... 7 days playtime)

EDIT:
At Gandalf's post:
I know you usually like to say that only /me is needed for roleplay, however:
That's something that won't simply work anymore in SA-MP. Maybe it worked back in 2006-2010 or something, but times change, people change and technology advances.
Sometime back then many things weren't possible like they are now, we need to keep going to the future instead of sticking back to old times.
Why would you roleplay for example smoking when you can have an actual object of cigarette in your hand with proper animation for it? no reason to.
Same goes for rest of situations that can be scripted... there's no point to imagine something if it's possible to have it visually made.
So yes, if server is properly scripted so it doesn't get you bored within 3 minutes of joining it, it can be successful.

You also mentioned "The atmosphere and how administration handles things are much more important."
That's also another thing, some of admins and managers like to punish people with reasons such as "screw off from here, DM elsewhere", or "get lost you shitty DMer" which is potentially a reason for all the haters Argonath gets, attacking it with all possible ways. Reason should be simple and professional, not to disrespect or piss people off, even if they're the biggest deeckheads on Earth. It's just gonna give them a reason to take it personally and start attacking.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Primus on July 14, 2015, 11:27:30 am
But still the main point is how people are in game, and how people are allowed to be in game.
You know, you should come in game sometimes.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Tiny on July 14, 2015, 11:39:30 am
Since SAPD was restricted, server doesn't go over 60 players.


Newbies who join to roleplay, will stay and roleplay with no issue regarding the SAPD system. Now if you think that the playerbase is so important that you'd rather give the newbies who want to DM an easy way to do it without rulebreaking, by being on cop duty, then suggest the orange dot hunting to be returned.

The playerbase has been indeed decreased, but it's fortunate that the people who're not willing to roleplay are missing. Go back to RS4, 150 players, DM fest in every corner because there was a tiny amount of people roleplaying.

I don't find a reason to complain about RS5, the script, the scripters or so. You're on a roleplay server and the main tool you got to succeed is creativity and basic English. Extra scripts and features are of course appreciated and bring some more interesting ways to have fun, but don't rely on them so much. Interaction between players is more important.

Stop finding reasons to complain and be glad you're given the basic things you need to be able to roleplay in this wonderful community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 11:41:37 am

EDIT:
At Gandalf's post:
I know you usually like to say that only /me is needed for roleplay, however:
That's something that won't simply work anymore in SA-MP. Maybe it worked back in 2006-2010 or something, but times change, people change and technology advances.
Sometime back then many things weren't possible like they are now, we need to keep going to the future instead of sticking back to old times.
Why would you roleplay for example smoking when you can have an actual object of cigarette in your hand with proper animation for it? no reason to.
Same goes for rest of situations that can be scripted... there's no point to imagine something if it's possible to have it visually made.
So yes, if server is properly scripted so it doesn't get you bored within 3 minutes of joining it, it can be successful.
It is very unfortunate that people feel this way, as it kills creativity. For instance in the ancient times one would not need to script a fire mission. Instead a person that crashed their car might just call 911 and try to get police, fire department and medical teams present to get them out.
Currently this is expected to be a scripted mission and people will even not do the mission unless there is money awarded.
The problem with this is that you can never script to the same level as your imagination can reach, as well as that you are stuck with the imagination of the scripters instead of your own.
If all you are able to do is follow a set of instructions you are a robot, not a human being.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 11:45:59 am

Newbies who join to roleplay, will stay and roleplay with no issue regarding the SAPD system. Now if you think that the playerbase is so important that you'd rather give the newbies who want to DM an easy way to do it without rulebreaking, by being on cop duty, then suggest the orange dot hunting to be returned.

The playerbase has been indeed decreased, but it's fortunate that the people who're not willing to roleplay are missing. Go back to RS4, 150 players, DM fest in every corner because there was a tiny amount of people roleplaying.

I don't find a reason to complain about RS5, the script, the scripters or so. You're on a roleplay server and the main tool you got to succeed is creativity and basic English. Extra scripts and features are of course appreciated and bring some more interesting ways to have fun, but don't rely on them so much. Interaction between players is more important.

Stop finding reasons to complain and be glad you're given the basic things you need to be able to roleplay in this wonderful community.
I only partially agree with you. Sure a DM fest should be prohibited, but a server with 35 players is much easier to control as one with 150 players, regardless of what they are doing. Also we need new players to stay always.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Tiny on July 14, 2015, 11:51:59 am
Also we need new players to stay always.

Of course we do, but I rather see 1 player staying and willing to roleplay, than 50 who will be here only to mess with others and ruin their gameplay.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Reckless on July 14, 2015, 11:52:51 am
While you are all busy arguing New Horizons will be flying by Pluto in two hours (https://twitter.com/NASANewHorizons/status/620893018216726528)!
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stivi on July 14, 2015, 12:04:12 pm
Also we need new players to stay always.
Good luck doing that with only /me. If there's no scripts, do you expect any player to stay ? I stood around until I found people I want to hang out with, because of the taxi system and the possibility to abuse people with it :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Johan_S on July 14, 2015, 12:07:16 pm
Ive heard about legendary roleplays of R*, TeaM, WS, TCL, Gvardia, Corleone, 58th, i9, SAPD, FBI, Swat and all other factions that made the history of this community. But you must know better than me that nowadays there are hundred of other options. What is left in SA:MP on a serious way are kids of ten years ago which today they are almost EDIT 21-30 YO and the kids of today that have other mindset. So Veterans, when join to kill time in SA:MP they do it for the sake of nostalgia but the new players need emotions and motivations. SA:MP it self is getting old but we must push forward with the new features (Is what Teddy and his crew are doing)

We have enough creativity dear Gandalf but without proper drug script we can't motivate the criminal factions and without criminal factions doing what they are supposed to do will affect in the whole cycle betwen factions to bring creativity and criminal roleplay is kinda limited so there's one big entity down. Without entity of criminals the cops won't do nothing more just few random trafic stops, or can answer 911 calls from firemans or paramedics (those last ones i can count only with fingers of right hand, 4 are firemans in our server and one 1 medic this medic is Conky) What i mean is that there won't be space for creativity if we suffer limitations. 

Im really sorry for the old guys which deviated from your projects of RS5 i hope with my heart and soul that we recover. I cannot imagine if your projects and systems were now alive where we could be, but the most important thing which i would like to say is: The reason why we are left in this hmm lets call it /MISERY/ comes due to miscommunication with each other and stupid conflicts occured around between the ones who were in charge to finish their duty.

Now the HQ along with Scripting team are more united then ever, try to pay more attention to them since afaik are the only ones left to handle this Community.

We can't go forward if we aren't united. Happy Birthday to Aragorn.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 14, 2015, 12:09:36 pm
At Tiny:
Never said SAPD should be re-opened, just said that jobs such as Firemen, Medics, Mechanics and similar should be improved to give more action.
So new players have something to do instead of being bored and leaving, never to come back. Because previously, SAPD was the only job that gave the constant action.

At Gandalf:
Yeah, it's sad and I would roleplay it without scripts, but I can't force other people to come and roleplay with me... because they don't need to.
So either I roleplay by myself or I just don't roleplay it... and it's gonna be the second option.
People would only do it if they get rewards and stuff, they mostly work for gains.

(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/fishing-money-illustration-cartoon-businessman-bag-32571345.jpg)

^^ that's how to get people to a specific roleplay scene, by throwing them rewards
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Reckless on July 14, 2015, 12:12:10 pm
What is left in SA:MP on a serious way are kids of ten years ago which today they are almost 28-30 YO and the kids of today that have other mindset.

I've been playing here for a long time now and just recently turned 21. :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Johan_S on July 14, 2015, 12:15:56 pm
I've been playing here for a long time now and just recently turned 21. :lol:

Me too, but differently from you i'm everyday in our server. Sorry can't remember your last time online, not only you, but your whole clan.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Benn on July 14, 2015, 12:46:44 pm
It may not apply to you, or to me, but there are numerous examples where roleplay is destroyed before it can actually happen.

There should be no (or minimal) admin involvement in roleplay, nor should explicit trolling and non-rp behavior be allowed. Veterans should indeed be teaching newcomers, but we have to accept that some newcomers cannot or will not learn, those can be dealt with by admins.
This is what I want!

The new scripts are great but without great leadership with great leaders skills we will never go back to how we were, and sadly what kept me playing this server is how we were and if you are planning on changing that and turn all players into greedy monster who enjoy power I would consider leaving right away, for an example last time a new player who kept banevading asked a question how to return to game on forums asked if it was a bug? around 20 players responding trolling...
The vision is what made Argonath like this, this is a fact not an opinion you can try to circle around it and prove it wrong but you have no chances at doing that and if you are planning on removing the vision which discusses moral attitudes then the name Argonath will die
To be clear I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST Changing the Vision I just don't want it to be fully changes or removed.
About SAPD, I wish the group will open again and great leadership charactors will appear to teach new cops how to act and if you find people who abuse their powers an action should be taken on them, sadly /copban is no longer a used command, back in the old days /copban was used weekly on people.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stof. on July 14, 2015, 12:59:59 pm
Those who are trolling in-game don't even bother posting a long sentence here, sadly it's the 'veterans' who do it.

Because the trolls simply do not give a shit, us veterans are taking out playing time or any time to write these comments and topics because we want a change and to shine light on the server we have loved since day 1.

It is very unfortunate that people feel this way, as it kills creativity. For instance in the ancient times one would not need to script a fire mission. Instead a person that crashed their car might just call 911 and try to get police, fire department and medical teams present to get them out.
Currently this is expected to be a scripted mission and people will even not do the mission unless there is money awarded.
The problem with this is that you can never script to the same level as your imagination can reach, as well as that you are stuck with the imagination of the scripters instead of your own.
If all you are able to do is follow a set of instructions you are a robot, not a human being.

In the ancient times, there were still demand and calls to make the roleplay a lot more strict for the some of the same reasons. Perhaps you remember a player "[Rstar]Carhartt" who was a high ranked admin and suggested changes because people didn't know what roleplay was or how to do it as there weren't any rules or guidelines in roleplaying and were encouraged to "use your imagination". Creativity will forever play the biggest part in roleplay, however adding some rules and guidelines even as Matthew. has said with the changes to scripted jobs, it couldn't hurt the server, if anything it will grow the roleplay and bring the community more together rather than lone trucking or growing weed. Carhartt got knocked back every time and in result, started advertising LS:RP and got banned. He probably did not go about it in the best way but it's a similar scenario and showed that the originality of the server can lose us veterans as well as new players. And this was in 2009.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong with anything in the Carhartt saga, It's been a while.)

If you had no clue what roleplay is and joined Argonath RPG, there are no guidelines in game or describing what roleplay is, no rules on roleplay properly set in place what would you do? It's the sole purpose of playing on the server, to roleplay yet hardly any light shines on RolePlaying or how it's done using cmd's etc in game.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Hamza_Khan on July 14, 2015, 01:53:53 pm
If that is how you do it you need to quit.

Nop, its you who is doing it wrong, you shouldn't treat someone who is leading the community from long time from  whilst you are away, As far as I know Devin,Teddy,Rusty and some other HQ members keeping the SA:MP community alive even in the hard circumstances when both of the owners are away and God knows where are they, when community needed them the most they disappeared, then at that time these are the guys who strives, instead of jumping from the sinking ship with their life boats.

As far as roleplay thing concerned, no one can't change a shit unless people want too, I'm seeing here the individuals who have been talking here and writing some long paragraphs but we see them in game very rarely, So get in game start roleplay by yourself whether it is small ones or big ones, the thing is that are we doing that?.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 01:59:37 pm
If that is how you do it you need to quit.

I think you need to change your forum rank to ''Argonath Sugar Daddy'' instead of owner, it would fit your current role better.
But ofcourse also make sure you've got your SA:MP up to date when you try to join the server again, you probably still have SA-MP 0.1a.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Conk on July 14, 2015, 02:05:40 pm
also make sure you've got your SA:MP up to date when you try to join the server again, you probably still have SA-MP 0.1a.

Shots fired  :war:

 :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Ehks on July 14, 2015, 02:06:08 pm
A fact: A solid, unique and interesting script is what a server needs to attract the player.... What keeps him on board? The atmosphere and mind-set of other players. If anyone here claims that scripts are just "an extra" and are not essential..... Big pile of horse shit.


Regarding SAPD:
I salute those who closed SAPD and restricted it to who are truly interested in a legal life and would like to have such a role as an occupation for their character. Why? Easy.... Separates troll-criminals - Dm'ers - Constant /SU users from going on duty. Not to mention that such a role is now taken more serious considering the fact you actually have work hard to earn the badge. Thus you won't waste it away easily ( unless you choose to be corrupted ;) ).

To the current cops, huge respect for your new regulations and the roleplay scenarios you offer upon bumping into us. Keep it up!

Regarding the scripts:
In my opinion, "script wise", Argonath is taking the right path.... What makes me say so? I'm enjoying the server more, and I've spotted at least 6-7 veterans who came back... If not more.

Big thank you for the effort and time you're putting into enhancing the server's scripts.

Concerning Roleplay:
Since everyone here is typing that they'd rather be on the server to roll with actual "roleplayers" and not bystanders ... Then yes I believe we should be strict on those who refuse to roleplay... I don't give a shit if you do not wish to be robbed in this particular minute you're forced to go through it. When a player logs into an RP/RPG server it means he already accepted the following terms and conditions:

Suggestions:

There's shit load of other suggestions but let me see your opinions on the above since I highly doubt I'll get a thumbs up for it lmao.


Little things make a big difference:


Got more I want to talk about but I don't have enough time, peace.




Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Cofiliano on July 14, 2015, 02:07:42 pm

In the ancient times, there were still demand and calls to make the roleplay a lot more strict for the some of the same reasons. Perhaps you remember a player "[Rstar]Carhartt" who was a high ranked admin and suggested changes because people didn't know what roleplay was or how to do it as there weren't any rules or guidelines in roleplaying and were encouraged to "use your imagination". Creativity will forever play the biggest part in roleplay, however adding some rules and guidelines even as Matthew. has said with the changes to scripted jobs, it couldn't hurt the server, if anything it will grow the roleplay and bring the community more together rather than lone trucking or growing weed. Carhartt got knocked back every time and in result, started advertising LS:RP and got banned. He probably did not go about it in the best way but it's a similar scenario and showed that the originality of the server can lose us veterans as well as new players. And this was in 2009.
That's about it.

I don't understand what's the whole drama about?

New players will stick around, if you can offer them better things to do then on other servers. If you only give them trucking, while saying that "Weed is not suppose to earn you money, yet be used as exchange value for money" , then mates don't blame it on the players, and specially don't blame the veterans.

Most of the visionary veterans were forced out, pushed away, and morons were placed in positions to call the shots. I'm not saying that was the offical policy of the management, but that was the consequences of everything.

I still remember how Pablo Santos after developing one of the biggest and most original gangs in Argo history, placed in San Fierro, (which is 3 times harded to do then in LS), begged CBFasi for 2-3 years, to simply put 4-5 doors at few buildings in Garcia so they can have some houses(There's only 1 house in the whole area of Garcia, where their gang was located), and he was constantly rejecting him even when Diablos became offical group, giving him crappy reasons such as "object limit has been reached" "maybe in one month", yet he was building a 10km highway, and a big ass prison called Mordor, not to mention a whole bloody island with airport and 3000 more custom objects. And for what? For his own enjoyment really and creativity desires, cause no one bloody used neither Mordor neither the NAP island( Yeah I know now 2-3 of you guys who thinks I'm hatting on holy CBF is gonna come here and tell me how you roleplayed everyday at Mordor and shit, while w all know that's bs.)

Its things like this, that made legendary leaders, and visionary veterans leave, people who were teaching and teaching an armies of new players and developing them into a fantastic roleplayers, keeping the server popularity up, and server activity up. Those new players DID stick on the server, despite the fact their group was treated like unworthy of the all mighty scripter team. Half of those new players are admins nowdays, yet what use do we have from NAP? None.

And where's Pablo today? Gone long ago to a place where his work and dedication will be supported, and not crush down for no logical reasons.

And this is just one out of 10 examples in Argonath history. So are we ready to learn something from our history and not make the same mistakes all over again ?

What's the path you guys wanna take?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Khm on July 14, 2015, 02:36:25 pm
Just for your info Corey, paruni has /area.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Ehks on July 14, 2015, 02:41:47 pm
Just for your info Corey, paruni has /area.

Who mentioned Paruni  :D  :D.... Hahahaha
My case remains anyway.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 02:59:38 pm
Ive heard about legendary roleplays of R*, TeaM, WS, TCL, Gvardia, Corleone, 58th, i9, SAPD, FBI, Swat and all other factions that made the history of this community. But you must know better than me that nowadays there are hundred of other options. What is left in SA:MP on a serious way are kids of ten years ago which today they are almost EDIT 21-30 YO and the kids of today that have other mindset. So Veterans, when join to kill time in SA:MP they do it for the sake of nostalgia but the new players need emotions and motivations. SA:MP it self is getting old but we must push forward with the new features (Is what Teddy and his crew are doing)

We have enough creativity dear Gandalf but without proper drug script we can't motivate the criminal factions and without criminal factions doing what they are supposed to do will affect in the whole cycle betwen factions to bring creativity and criminal roleplay is kinda limited so there's one big entity down. Without entity of criminals the cops won't do nothing more just few random trafic stops, or can answer 911 calls from firemans or paramedics (those last ones i can count only with fingers of right hand, 4 are firemans in our server and one 1 medic this medic is Conky) What i mean is that there won't be space for creativity if we suffer limitations. 

Im really sorry for the old guys which deviated from your projects of RS5 i hope with my heart and soul that we recover. I cannot imagine if your projects and systems were now alive where we could be, but the most important thing which i would like to say is: The reason why we are left in this hmm lets call it /MISERY/ comes due to miscommunication with each other and stupid conflicts occured around between the ones who were in charge to finish their duty.

Now the HQ along with Scripting team are more united then ever, try to pay more attention to them since afaik are the only ones left to handle this Community.

We can't go forward if we aren't united. Happy Birthday to Aragorn.
You are contradicting yourself here. First you say have creativity then go on a rant about which scripts you feel are missing or lacking.
Perhaps understand that intitially not even money existed as a property, and still people played and bought stuff from each other, it really was based on nothing else but /me with some shooting.
People are unwilling to exchange money unless it is based on a script, where as it is perfectly possible to sell and buy drugs just based on imagination, without actually a property being handed over.
Before SA:MP restaurants were exploited where people cam to eat without food even existing, currently a food shop is only visited for a quick health update without any roleplay. That is lack of cretivity and imagination.

I took the step to let some of the old team go even when it caused some pain for both me and them, but I prefer to have an active leadership and scipting team to move things forward. so far it has shown results, and I hope the changes they are currently implementing will also bring things forward.
Remember that I am not leading the server, nor am I the one who is determining all policies. I am way too inactive to be able to handle those. The current leadership has the burden of doing those things and doing what they feel is best to let things grow. I may not agree with everything they do, just as they might not always agree between each other. But as long as I believe they are having the best interest of the server at heart and are active I will allow them to follow their path. I might discuss in topics like this the reasoning we used in the past, and perhaps also the players will learn from this so together we improve the server.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 03:03:58 pm
Nop, its you who is doing it wrong, you shouldn't treat someone who is leading the community from long time from  whilst you are away, As far as I know Devin,Teddy,Rusty and some other HQ members keeping the SA:MP community alive even in the hard circumstances when both of the owners are away and God knows where are they, when community needed them the most they disappeared, then at that time these are the guys who strives, instead of jumping from the sinking ship with their life boats.

As far as roleplay thing concerned, no one can't change a shit unless people want too, I'm seeing here the individuals who have been talking here and writing some long paragraphs but we see them in game very rarely, So get in game start roleplay by yourself whether it is small ones or big ones, the thing is that are we doing that?.
Still butthurt you chose to leave Paruni?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Mario. on July 14, 2015, 03:07:16 pm
Still butthurt you chose to leave Paruni?
Actually he's not Paruni's Hamza.  :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Johan_S on July 14, 2015, 03:08:25 pm
You are contradicting yourself here. First you say have creativity then go on a rant about which scripts you feel are missing or lacking.

I hope you realise the difference of veterans(like me) which are getting used of the situation and new players which register for first time.

Still butthurt you chose to leave Paruni?


He's not TeaM_Hamza, im sorry for your synchronization with actuality and recognitions of community members. But i figured out that you are very inactive.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 03:10:59 pm
A fact: A solid, unique and interesting script is what a server needs to attract the player.... What keeps him on board? The atmosphere and mind-set of other players. If anyone here claims that scripts are just "an extra" and are not essential..... Big pile of horse shit.


Regarding SAPD:
I salute those who closed SAPD and restricted it to who are truly interested in a legal life and would like to have such a role as an occupation for their character. Why? Easy.... Separates troll-criminals - Dm'ers - Constant /SU users from going on duty. Not to mention that such a role is now taken more serious considering the fact you actually have work hard to earn the badge. Thus you won't waste it away easily ( unless you choose to be corrupted ;) ).

To the current cops, huge respect for your new regulations and the roleplay scenarios you offer upon bumping into us. Keep it up!

Regarding the scripts:
In my opinion, "script wise", Argonath is taking the right path.... What makes me say so? I'm enjoying the server more, and I've spotted at least 6-7 veterans who came back... If not more.

Big thank you for the effort and time you're putting into enhancing the server's scripts.

Concerning Roleplay:
Since everyone here is typing that they'd rather be on the server to roll with actual "roleplayers" and not bystanders ... Then yes I believe we should be strict on those who refuse to roleplay... I don't give a shit if you do not wish to be robbed in this particular minute you're forced to go through it. When a player logs into an RP/RPG server it means he already accepted the following terms and conditions:
  • Must Role play with others and accept their roleplays regardless the event / scenario and outcome as long as it does not conflict with the heavy rules ( DM / Hack etc... )

Suggestions:
  • Remove /area ..... I mean seriously... Seriously good reasons how the hell is /area beneficial in a roleplay server. Oh wait I found it! It kills the roleplay and exposes your location in a split second! Fuck yeah!
  • Since not a lot will adapt to "No Blips" right away.... Turn all blips to white... Regardless of your job and status (admin / cop... / criminal..)
    I heard this will be implemented though no? If so then hallelujah.
  • Support OOC/IC and MG/PG ...... BIG start for proper roleplay. How? I can now blow a cop's cover if he was infiltrating a mafia just because I heard so on skype and I won't even be punished for it.

There's shit load of other suggestions but let me see your opinions on the above since I highly doubt I'll get a thumbs up for it lmao.


Little things make a big difference:
  • #FreeSprayCan - Re-instate it in the server and as one mentioned make it harmless.
  • Restore usable Items - Cigarettes / Briefcase
  • #FreeDice - This is beneficial to everyone.. How ? Hear me out:
    As a gangster : we'd love to roll the dice in the alleyway or in our neighborhood to win a few Benjamins or items stolen from houses we robbed earlier.

    Others: Illegal underground casinos

    Bonus:Remember the S/F you spit after you attempt to make a move against someone? This is the answer! roll the damn dice and if the victim has a higher number your attempt is a fail and vice versa.....


Got more I want to talk about but I don't have enough time, peace.
Tranlsation: I am tired of getting banned on LS:RP please copy their server for me.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 03:12:28 pm
Actually he's not Paruni's Hamza.  :lol:
OOPS  :rage:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 03:13:05 pm
Tranlsation: I am tired of getting banned on LS:RP please copy their server for me.

Do NOT say that word it will get you BANNED from the server !!!!111!!!
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Mario. on July 14, 2015, 03:13:39 pm
Do NOT say that word it will get you BANNED from the server !!!!111!!!
Just like me  :rofl:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 03:14:50 pm
I hope you realise the difference of veterans(like me) which are getting used of the situation and new players which register for first time.


I do, however should we cater to be just like all other ones or remain a difference?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 03:16:21 pm
Do NOT say that word it will get you BANNED from the server !!!!111!!!
I wonder how a discussion topic on LS:RP to bring more features of Argonath would end. :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 14, 2015, 03:17:12 pm
As somebody said, it's also veteran players who ruin the little bits of roleplay that occur.
There was a guy on roof saying he'll jump, we're negotiating, fire department is there, and a guy on fireman duty, an old player, leader of a "family", comes and says:
"You have no balls to jump why are you threatening!!"
"Fucking prick"

And drives around with his infernus on fireman duty.
And later on, cries about the new trucking script update which removes your cargo if the truck is too damaged.

 :janek:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Johan_S on July 14, 2015, 03:17:23 pm
I invite any moderator of this section to censore all the mentions of other communities, i feel very ashamed to be compared also now i feel persecuted due to my faction members suffered permbans and punishments in game and in forums for mentioning other communities without malicious intentions.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Luke on July 14, 2015, 03:17:44 pm
Tranlsation: I am tired of getting banned on LS:RP please copy their server for me.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Im dead  :lol: :lol: :lol:


BANN GENDALF FOR ADVERTISE!!!!1
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 03:20:17 pm
I wonder how a discussion topic on LS:RP to bring more features of Argonath would end. :lol:

Go and check it out for yourself i'd say, they actually have dedicated a whole topic to your community for the majority of those who left here to re-unite there.
I'm suprised you aren't forum banned for advertising here yet though. I know many who would be for simply saying that holy word (and no, not in a advertisement context).
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Johan_S on July 14, 2015, 03:21:29 pm
I do, however should we cater to be just like all other ones or remain a difference?

After reading your posts mentioning that you are not leading anymore i must apologize for involving you personally in this discussion. I will reply only to the ones who are in charge (always if someone needs my input) if not catch me in game for any other case.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Hamza_Khan on July 14, 2015, 03:22:49 pm
Still butthurt you chose to leave Paruni?
You himself answered us that how active and involved in this community you are after the introduction of RS 5. ;)                                   
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 14, 2015, 03:24:48 pm
Someone please call Damian and ask him to drag his Jack guy away. I don't think we need him here.
On a serious note, why do you bother putting your nose here if you don't give a single inch about this community? Or you're admin jailed for 20 days there for misspelling a word in RP?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 03:31:20 pm
Someone please call Damian and ask him to drag his Jack guy away. I don't think we need him here.
On a serious note, why do you bother putting your nose here if you don't give a single inch about this community? Or you're admin jailed for 20 days there for misspelling a word in RP?

Yeah, lets remove everything and anything that has to do with another community because if we only look at ourselfs and blindly follow our own vision we will get to the top and have a great running community. That strategy has definitely worked out the past couple of years.

You're a funny guy.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 03:34:30 pm
and what I see in this topic is nothing but negativity and very few people actually caring to make progress. If you'd pull your heads out of your ass for a second and see how you are bad girling at others for actually trying to make progress rather than actually make progress... perhaps we could actually reach compromises that move this community forward... together.

Whenever you're ready.

Time to stop fighting... and that goes to you to "owner".. progress isn't made by utterly useless bickering which absolutely have no value in the discussion.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Erion. on July 14, 2015, 03:37:12 pm
I invite any moderator of this section to censore all the mentions of other communities, i feel very ashamed to be compared also now i feel persecuted due to my faction members suffered permbans and punishments in game and in forums for mentioning other communities without malicious intentions.

This must be pinned in "suggestions and ideas" section, those guys who speak about other communities and try to copy them are shameless. In the end they act like love our community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Erion. on July 14, 2015, 03:39:52 pm


And drives around with his infernus on fireman duty.
And later on, cries about the new trucking script update which removes your cargo if the truck is too damaged.

 :janek:

You transmit things completely wrong. He said he wants the trucking script removed, and did not cry about the new update. You're a cop anyway, I can't blame you.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Ehks on July 14, 2015, 03:44:36 pm
Tranlsation: I am tired of getting banned on LS:RP please copy their server for me.
Translation: Let me not give a shit about what players care about and follow my own fart I like to call "Argonath-Vision".

I was being serious but if you want to fuck around with your shit attitude then hell I'd love to see you go inactive for an other decade.

Oh and jokes on you, I never got banned there.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 03:46:26 pm
Whenever you're ready.

Time to stop fighting... and that goes to you too "owner".. progress isn't made by utterly useless bickering which absolutely have no value in the discussion.

I don't think community ownership is ready to take that big step just yet, as long as ownership still flags constructive ideas as rants and believes that the "vision" that became active in the early days of Argonath would still apply to Argonath SA:MP anno 2015.

Reference:

Keep ranting as you want, but the thing that has become very obvious with the change to RS5 is that the one reason other communities are visited has nothing to do with the roleplay.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: AK47 on July 14, 2015, 03:47:39 pm
If that is how you do it you need to quit.

without the current leadership the server will die, the only ones that is holding back the server is the one using the vision as a holy fucking bible, it's outdated no matter what you say
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Khm on July 14, 2015, 03:49:48 pm
You transmit things completely wrong. He said he wants the trucking script removed, and did not cry about the new update. You're a cop anyway, I can't blame you.
I don't blame you too, you should not mix things between in game role-play character and real life. That's the real problem with us, getting things personal for any scene..
Whenever you're ready.

Time to stop fighting... and that goes to you to "owner".. progress isn't made by utterly useless bickering which absolutely have no value in the discussion.
A controlled TS chat between everyone would be the best to avoid that.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 03:51:10 pm
I don't think community ownership is ready to take that big step just yet, as long as ownership still flags constructive ideas as rants and believes that the "vision" that became active in the early days of Argonath would still apply to Argonath SA:MP anno 2015.

In case it hasn't been abundantly obvious with the changes we've made... we really could careless. The current leadership of SA:MP itself, including our scripting team, is pro-community ideas rather than pro-outdated vision.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 03:51:48 pm
Whats up with the attitude guys? cmon now....
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 03:55:52 pm
Whats up with the attitude guys? cmon now....

Exactly this... and then people wounder why there is no progress. There is no constructive debate here, it's just scattered thoughts aimed at jabbing random people.. not even ideas. Obviously not everyone will agree but there is a way to have constructive conversations without the content which sidelines the purpose. Until half these people, including the owner, can realize that... there will be no progress.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Erion. on July 14, 2015, 03:56:12 pm
I don't blame you too, you should not mix things between in game role-play character and real life.

I'm not.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 03:59:59 pm
Exactly this... and then people wounder why there is no progress. There is no constructive debate here, it's just scattered thoughts aimed at jabbing random people.. not even ideas. Obviously not everyone will agree but there is a way to have constructive conversations without the content which sidelines the purpose. Until half these people, including the owner, can realize that... there will be no progress.
Thats why i see pepole judging each other :/
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 14, 2015, 04:04:44 pm
Some ideas were suggested:
- OOC/IC + MG/PG rules
- Improved jobs so new players have something to do and earn money with.
- Make people roleplay instead of accepting various excuses such as "no i dont wanna rp now bye"
- /area removal
- No colors (orange dots)
- Dice

And so on..
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 14, 2015, 04:06:41 pm
It is very unfortunate that people feel this way, as it kills creativity. For instance in the ancient times one would not need to script a fire mission. Instead a person that crashed their car might just call 911 and try to get police, fire department and medical teams present to get them out.
Currently this is expected to be a scripted mission and people will even not do the mission unless there is money awarded.
The problem with this is that you can never script to the same level as your imagination can reach, as well as that you are stuck with the imagination of the scripters instead of your own.
If all you are able to do is follow a set of instructions you are a robot, not a human being.

Hi Gandalf,

I partially agree, not fully though. I think functions and scripted jobs / activities / services / whatever is a great way to promote and enchant roleplay. Fire fighter's mission is maybe not the greatest roleplay attraction, but you have to look between your fingers and see what is going on behind the missions! I've seen great roleplayers that have enchanted the missions to become a living and creative place for everyone, especially for the cops / citizens / medics. I hope we can do more activities and get more functions and scripted activities that enchant more roleplay here in Argonath.

Humans will never become robots if they are free and have something to do!

Creativity comes from ideas and when you have no ideas left, you have to put something in to make people start roleplaying differently and unique again.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 04:06:47 pm
Good job with something at least somewhat constructive,

- Make people roleplay instead of accepting various excuses such as "no i dont wanna rp now bye"

If I saw this, I'd instantly ban them.

- No colors (orange dots)
- Dice

We're doing both of these.

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 14, 2015, 04:07:09 pm
Some ideas were suggested:
- OOC/IC + MG/PG rules
- Improved jobs so new players have something to do and earn money with.
- Make people roleplay instead of accepting various excuses such as "no i dont wanna rp now bye"
- /area removal
- No colors (orange dots)
- Dice

And so on..

The problem isn't on the scripts but on the players mentality. We can advance from RS5 to RS1337 but if the players don't give a damn about the roleplay it won't work.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 04:11:01 pm
The problem isn't on the scripts but on the players mentality. We can advance from RS5 to RS1337 but if the players don't give a damn about the roleplay it won't work.

This is true but only to a certain degree, the way the scripts are can help influence the mentality, or at least shape it... not much but it does have some impact. But yes I do agree the mentality of players wanting to scroll and click before even considering RP, and the mentality of wanting more money is a major problem we face today.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bundy on July 14, 2015, 04:21:25 pm
I do, however should we cater to be just like all other ones or remain a difference?
Honestly, what's so unique about Argo?

We are missing out on lots of scripts and features SA:MP has to offer, but that goes under the guise of ''use your imagination''.
We have a low playerbase in comparison with other RP servers.
Before the scripters team actively started scripting a while back (thx guys) we had to wait a year for a single update, whilst other communities had updates weekly.

The only thing that makes Argonath unique is the community; if it wasn't for the friendships people have made here, everything would be dead by now.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Que on July 14, 2015, 04:23:58 pm
Tranlsation: I am tired of getting banned on LS:RP please copy their server for me.
Eight years ago, I would've respected that answer and believed you knew the best since you were older and more mature than me. Now, all I can see is a stubborn and moronic guy who still does his best to shove his head up to his own arse while he slowly kills the community he once masturbated to.

You fail to understand that the "world" you so much visionized about has changed within the community's age of growing older and more saggy. You keep screaming at people and telling them that they are wrong whilst you are inactive and do less and less to serve the community. You are too stubborn to fucking see the negative trend and the community's huge flaws while you still piss on LS:RP and other much more successful communities. The only thing you've developed during at least the last four-five years are your own inactivity and yet here you are telling the current leaders to quit and calling my deepest arguments as rants while you have a ten year outdated vision of the past while you don't have a single plan for the future.

You have no right to disrespect no one anymore because the only one who is wrong is you and your butt buddies who yet today are licking your goddamn diarrhea of your legs.

Have a good one.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 14, 2015, 04:26:11 pm
Honestly, what's so unique about Argo?

The only thing that makes Argonath unique is the community; if it wasn't for the friendships people have made here, everything would be dead by now.

Exactly. I believe it's the only server you can get in to just chat or have a couple of jokes with everyone. I spent several hours standing in one place just having nice talks over public chat(mostly when the little ones already went to bed) and I think that's awesome. Also the kind of support that players give to newcommers and the time wasted with them in order to shape them up to embrace the argonath spirit instead of a 10 minutes tutorial with no "human" interaction. 
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 14, 2015, 04:29:08 pm
Eight years ago, I would've respected that answer and believed you knew the best since you were older and more mature than me. Now, all I can see is a stubborn and moronic guy who still does his best to shove his head up to his own arse while he slowly kills the community he once masturbated to.

You fail to understand that the "world" you so much visionized about has changed within the community's age of growing older and more saggy. You keep screaming at people and telling them that they are wrong whilst you are inactive and do less and less to serve the community. You are too stubborn to fucking see the negative trend and the community's huge flaws while you still piss on LS:RP and other much more successful communities. The only thing you've developed during at least the last four-five years are your own inactivity and yet here you are telling the current leaders to quit and calling my deepest arguments as rants while you have a ten year outdated vision of the past while you don't have a single plan for the future.

You have no right to disrespect no one anymore because the only one who is wrong is you and your butt buddies who yet today are licking your goddamn diarrhea of your legs.

Have a good one.

I'm pretty sure this could've been much less graphic but... somewhat you're right. LS is a stable and crowded community but like I said on my previous post Argonath is more than that, although I can't say much cause I only played on that other server for like 30 minutes. Obviously it's like a Germany VS Brazil but...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bruce. on July 14, 2015, 04:29:46 pm
The problem isn't on the scripts but on the players mentality. We can advance from RS5 to RS1337 but if the players don't give a damn about the roleplay it won't work.

We need strict RP rules so people would not bitch around and shit....

- OOC/IC + MG/PG rules
- Improved jobs so new players have something to do and earn money with.
- Make people roleplay instead of accepting various excuses such as "no i dont wanna rp now bye"
- /area removal
- No colors (orange dots)

These are the perfect things we need and also I would like to add
- Don't let people lie in /em because /em is turning into the most shit chat during RPs
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Whiteman on July 14, 2015, 04:32:08 pm
Eight years ago, I would've respected that answer and believed you knew the best since you were older and more mature than me. Now, all I can see is a stubborn and moronic guy who still does his best to shove his head up to his own arse while he slowly kills the community he once masturbated to.

You fail to understand that the "world" you so much visionized about has changed within the community's age of growing older and more saggy. You keep screaming at people and telling them that they are wrong whilst you are inactive and do less and less to serve the community. You are too stubborn to fucking see the negative trend and the community's huge flaws while you still piss on LS:RP and other much more successful communities. The only thing you've developed during at least the last four-five years are your own inactivity and yet here you are telling the current leaders to quit and calling my deepest arguments as rants while you have a ten year outdated vision of the past while you don't have a single plan for the future.

You have no right to disrespect no one anymore because the only one who is wrong is you and your butt buddies who yet today are licking your goddamn diarrhea of your legs.

Have a good one.
Word.

Time to step down Gandalf, let Teddy and others take over the decision making process. They have great plans and are ready to make them a reality, they know what the community needs, and they are listening to the people of Argonath, which is exceptional in the history of Argonath itself. Only thing keeping them back is you, sadly.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 04:41:21 pm
Eight years ago, I would've respected that answer and believed you knew the best since you were older and more mature than me. Now, all I can see is a stubborn and moronic guy who still does his best to shove his head up to his own arse while he slowly kills the community he once masturbated to.

You fail to understand that the "world" you so much visionized about has changed within the community's age of growing older and more saggy. You keep screaming at people and telling them that they are wrong whilst you are inactive and do less and less to serve the community. You are too stubborn to fucking see the negative trend and the community's huge flaws while you still piss on LS:RP and other much more successful communities. The only thing you've developed during at least the last four-five years are your own inactivity and yet here you are telling the current leaders to quit and calling my deepest arguments as rants while you have a ten year outdated vision of the past while you don't have a single plan for the future.

You have no right to disrespect no one anymore because the only one who is wrong is you and your butt buddies who yet today are licking your goddamn diarrhea of your legs.

Have a good one.

Straight to the point.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Plam_Knight on July 14, 2015, 04:46:14 pm
First this topic should be just deleted altogether, since it serves no purpose and its a place for people that've never been ingame to lay out some salt and argue over stupid things that are not even close to relevant to the server.

Second, the plans that are made by the HQ team ahead are pretty solid and all we need to do is await for them, do our best ingame and share our opinions, when the HQ and dev team ask for our opinions.

Third, people as inactive as Gandalf should really go back to their inactivity, rather then spreading toxicity around and only slowing our further progress. As well people like Que are only showing how loyal they are to this community, to keep going for so long after taking so much shit from people like Gandalf, who've done nothing in general to assist the server to move further and get over its down period. As well talking about leading by example, some pretty poor example is being shown by Gandalf, looking at the way he treats respected veterans and fellow HQ members.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 04:54:03 pm
Word.

Time to step down Gandalf, let Teddy and others take over the decision making process. They have great plans and are ready to make them a reality, they know what the community needs, and they are listening to the people of Argonath, which is exceptional in the history of Argonath itself. Only thing keeping them back is you, sadly.
Gandalf still owns it and he makes his decision or not :/, why would gandalf step down and leave his community that he made?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pandalink on July 14, 2015, 04:55:32 pm
If I'm not mistaken, Gandalf still pays for this server, and all of the supporting infrastructure as well. Even if I am, he was intrumental in founding the community that has since lasted like 9 fucking years. So, it's possible that you shouldn't all be acting like immature shitters and literally insulting him on his own forum. If you disagree with him, that's fine, but there are better ways to voice your opinion than by insulting the owner of the server and sucking up to the egos of the new SAMP leaders. I even see vets coming out with all this shit about how much they seem to hate Gandalf and want him to go away forever or something, forgetting any of the past and not thinking about the financial future of the server at all.

I mean damn
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bruce. on July 14, 2015, 04:56:16 pm
Gandalf still owns it and he makes his decision or not :/, why would gandalf step down and leave his community that he made?

Nobody told him to leave, we're suggesting him what's the best for the community.... you should really read what is being said here.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: AK47 on July 14, 2015, 04:57:23 pm
Gandalf still owns it and he makes his decision or not :/, why would gandalf step down and leave his community that he made?

maybe you should read the topic before replying
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 04:57:54 pm
Nobody told him to leave, we're suggesting him what's the best for the community.... you should really read what is being said here.
All i understand what the fuck is going on is moaning and flaming and a bunch of non sense.... :/
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 14, 2015, 05:00:33 pm
If I'm not mistaken, Gandalf still pays for this server, and all of the supporting infrastructure as well. Even if I am, he was intrumental in founding the community that has since lasted like 9 f**cking years. So, it's possible that you shouldn't all be acting like immature shitters and literally insulting him on his own forum. If you disagree with him, that's fine, but there are better ways to voice your opinion than by insulting the owner of the server and sucking up to the egos of the new SAMP leaders. I even see vets coming out with all this shit about how much they seem to hate Gandalf and want him to go away forever or something, forgetting any of the past and not thinking about the financial future of the server at all.

I mean damn
Agree with this.
You all should know that this community is property of the owners, and they can do whatever they want on it and with it.
So instead of verbally assaulting them at their own property, you should at least show some respect.
If you went this verbal elsewhere, you wouldn't be coming back so soon.

It is true indeed that they're not active and don't know the real situation of the server and how it is to PLAY it.
And that's why I also agree that Teddy and managers should be in lead of decision making for the server.
They are at least aware of what we want, how we want and what's needed to push us forward.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bas on July 14, 2015, 05:00:38 pm
I honestly don't get why people think they can tell him what to do, It's his community and he can do what he thinks is right. You aren't entitled to any changes or scripts at all. Thanks to him you're able to play for free and no strings attached, he could just aswell pull the plug and all your efforts are gone. So instead of bashing on him all the time perhaps you could say thank you once in a while since I'm pretty sure none of you would even give a single penny to keep the community up.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stivi on July 14, 2015, 05:01:11 pm
I agree Gandalf has been very inactive and I like the ideas current development team has, but telling him to fuck off isn't the way to go. That is, if you care for this community.



All i understand what the fuck is going on is moaning and flaming and a bunch of non sense.... :/
Then you obviously aren't mentally stable.

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bruce. on July 14, 2015, 05:01:25 pm
All i understand what the fuck is going on is moaning and flaming and a bunch of non sense.... :/

You seem to not understand shit what is going on here....
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:01:36 pm
If I'm not mistaken, Gandalf still pays for this server, and all of the supporting infrastructure as well. Even if I am, he was intrumental in founding the community that has since lasted like 9 f**cking years. So, it's possible that you shouldn't all be acting like immature shitters and literally insulting him on his own forum. If you disagree with him, that's fine, but there are better ways to voice your opinion than by insulting the owner of the server and sucking up to the egos of the new SAMP leaders. I even see vets coming out with all this shit about how much they seem to hate Gandalf and want him to go away forever or something, forgetting any of the past and not thinking about the financial future of the server at all.

I mean damn
i agree...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 05:01:58 pm
If I'm not mistaken, Gandalf still pays for this server, and all of the supporting infrastructure as well. Even if I am, he was intrumental in founding the community that has since lasted like 9 f**cking years. So, it's possible that you shouldn't all be acting like immature shitters and literally insulting him on his own forum. If you disagree with him, that's fine, but there are better ways to voice your opinion than by insulting the owner of the server and sucking up to the egos of the new SAMP leaders. I even see vets coming out with all this shit about how much they seem to hate Gandalf and want him to go away forever or something, forgetting any of the past and not thinking about the financial future of the server at all.

I mean damn

I agree, but as I said earlier in the topic:

I think you need to change your forum rank to ''Argonath Sugar Daddy'' instead of owner, it would fit your current role better.

Gandalf hasn't fulfilled his ownership position actively at all within the last few years besides paying for the server. At the same time, HQ members were left to wait for him for months and months to make a simple decision before they could move on and implent a regulation or a new script.. which is ridicilous. Above that, Gandalf hasn't been around for the past couple of years actively yet appears to think that the vision he once created would still be suitable to Argonath anno 2015. Which it is not.

On top of everything, our beloved owner shows up in the topic to flag other people's imput and constructive ideas as rants without contributing anything productive himself besides continueing the discussion on the topic with his ideology from the MTA:VC era.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:02:42 pm
You seem to not understand shit what is going on here....
Yup
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 05:05:05 pm
Yup

If you think its all a bunch of nonsense and you have no idea of whats going on, please refrain from getting yourself involved in the discussion.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 14, 2015, 05:05:24 pm
Those who insult and rant at Gandalf here should consider packing their bags. Show some goddamn respect..
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:11:42 pm
If you think its all a bunch of nonsense and you have no idea of whats going on, please refrain from getting yourself involved in the discussion.
Screw it, i'll just look at the forum getting flooded with this "discussion"
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 05:15:38 pm
Those who insult and rant at Gandalf here should consider packing their bags. Show some goddamn respect..

Our conversations shouldn't get leaked here then ^.^

But on point... Gandalf does pay for this server and he did build it up. We don't want him to leave, we want him to step and take responsibility. We want him to become an active participant, don't forget those of you saying shitting on vets... he himself is a veteran... he is the first player. However what needs to be different is less dependency on an outdated vision, and more open discussions with the community that are productive and progressive. If the owner gets involved in that and is willing to listen and keep and open mind.... the level of progression we can make would truly be historic in this community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 05:17:50 pm
Whenever you're ready.

Time to stop fighting... and that goes to you to "owner".. progress isn't made by utterly useless bickering which absolutely have no value in the discussion.
IF you think this is fighting you have not seen anything yet.
If you feel a discussion should be about how great everyone is go to a gay website.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 05:19:58 pm
IF you think this is fighting you have not seen anything yet.
If you feel a discussion should be about how great everyone is go to a gay website.

You should goto a website that teaches you to read because that isn't even close to what I said the discussion should be about. Thanks tho for proving everyone else right.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:22:04 pm
*facepalm*   :neutral2: Great. this is getting childish..., guys lets just stop
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 05:22:49 pm
In case it hasn't been abundantly obvious with the changes we've made... we really could careless. The current leadership of SA:MP itself, including our scripting team, is pro-community ideas rather than pro-outdated vision.
And I have made it clear that I give the leader rope to hang themselves... within limits.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Chris_Knight on July 14, 2015, 05:23:41 pm
I would love to see Gandalfs reply to Ques post, very constructive and mature points there.

Gandalf please state your word.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 05:24:07 pm
And I have made it clear that I give the leader rope to hang themselves... within limits.

and we've stayed generally within those limits out of respect for you... yet you do nothing but fucking ignore us and insult the person who has more access to your community than you? Very smart. Luckily for you I am trustworthy and won't do anything stupid with that access.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Khm on July 14, 2015, 05:25:21 pm
Where's Aragorn? Problems would've been already solved if he was around who agrees? A lot lost respect towards themselves it seems.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:25:34 pm
and we've stayed generally within those limits out of respect for you... yet you do nothing but f**cking ignore us and insult the person who has more access to your community than you? Very smart. Luckily for you I am trustworthy and won't do anything stupid with that access.
I want to quote that some pepole think you're very ignorant and powerhunger teddy, just sayin that ain't me....
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Hamza_Khan on July 14, 2015, 05:26:37 pm
I want to quote that some pepole think you're very ignorant and powerhunger teddy, just sayin that ain't me....
What is your age?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 05:27:02 pm
I want to quote that some pepole think you're very ignorant and powerhunger teddy, just sayin that ain't me....

Oh please.. yeah you're def. the right person to say that.

Date Registered: March 04, 2015, 05:19:20 pm
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:27:08 pm
What is your age?
Why do you care?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: SkyHawk on July 14, 2015, 05:27:18 pm
It's starting to make sense why everyone leaves in the first place. We can't even have a mature constructive discussion about how to improve this community without everyone believing their opinions hold more value than the person next to them.. Guess what, whatever has worked for the last 6 years, doesn't work anymore. There isn't any other explanation how a community of 250 people in the server at any given time, drastically decreases to about 50 to 60 on a good day. Forum activity only increases when we get into pointless arguments like this, and it only gives other communities more reason to look at us and laugh. I'm embarrassed to be apart of this community and be a participating administrator in this community with the childish nonsense that has took place over the last two days in this topic.

Everyone in this community needs to pull their heads out of their asses, what good is the constant back and forth arguing going to do for any of us? Not a damn thing, if you want to let this community run itself into the ground even further than what it already is, then continue fighting. If you want to salvage what little reputation we have as a community, stop the arguing and start working towards a common goal.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: AK47 on July 14, 2015, 05:27:38 pm
I want to quote that some pepole think you're very ignorant and powerhunger teddy, just sayin that ain't me....

just please stop your posts
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 05:27:38 pm
I want to quote that some pepole think you're very ignorant and powerhunger teddy, just sayin that ain't me....

I don't care what people think of me. I'm here for one reason, to contribute my skills to help better this community. I've never wanted anything more than to help create something people can enjoy and be happy playing. I'm not here for the "thank yous", I'm not here to be loved, I'm not here to be worshiped... some people might be but that's just not me.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:28:07 pm
Oh please.. yeah you're def. the right person to say that.

Date Registered: March 04, 2015, 05:19:20 pm
Oh lord, now pepole are gonna blame me for being a dickhead......., i said not me :/ am just sayin some pepole
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 05:28:55 pm
Oh lord, now pepole are gonna blame me for being a dickhead......., i said not me :/ am just sayin some pepole

just please stop your posts, so far i haven't seen any constructive contributing post from you.. but spreading rumors about community members that actually do something for the community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 05:30:16 pm
Honestly, what's so unique about Argo?

We are missing out on lots of scripts and features SA:MP has to offer, but that goes under the guise of ''use your imagination''.
We have a low playerbase in comparison with other RP servers.
Before the scripters team actively started scripting a while back (thx guys) we had to wait a year for a single update, whilst other communities had updates weekly.

The only thing that makes Argonath unique is the community; if it wasn't for the friendships people have made here, everything would be dead by now.
There is no need to miss features or not have possibilities to earn, however all that does not mean there is no possibility to roleplay without it.
Just be less greedy for free money and give it away as easy as you get it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Hamza_Khan on July 14, 2015, 05:30:44 pm
Why do you care?
Cause you are becoming a nuisance in this conversation with your senseless posts without any maturity, people asked you to refrain posting bullshit here yet you are doing it proudly and without giving a f**k, that showing how immature you are.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Que on July 14, 2015, 05:32:00 pm
I would love to see Gandalfs reply to Ques post, very constructive and mature points there.

Gandalf please state your word.
The mature train left long time ago.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:33:35 pm
Cause you are becoming a nuisance in this conversation with your senseless posts without any maturity, people asked you to refrain posting bullshit here yet you are doing it proudly and without giving a f**k, that showing how immature you are.
Well.. you can report rather then just say that shit, i would stop posting because thats better for me.
i wouldn't really care about your thoughts so could you just keep your thoughts to yourself
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 05:34:37 pm
Eight years ago, I would've respected that answer and believed you knew the best since you were older and more mature than me. Now, all I can see is a stubborn and moronic guy who still does his best to shove his head up to his own arse while he slowly kills the community he once masturbated to.

You fail to understand that the "world" you so much visionized about has changed within the community's age of growing older and more saggy. You keep screaming at people and telling them that they are wrong whilst you are inactive and do less and less to serve the community. You are too stubborn to fucking see the negative trend and the community's huge flaws while you still piss on LS:RP and other much more successful communities. The only thing you've developed during at least the last four-five years are your own inactivity and yet here you are telling the current leaders to quit and calling my deepest arguments as rants while you have a ten year outdated vision of the past while you don't have a single plan for the future.

You have no right to disrespect no one anymore because the only one who is wrong is you and your butt buddies who yet today are licking your goddamn diarrhea of your legs.

Have a good one.
And you are still the same idiot who wants his way to be the only way and goes in to a baby crying spell when he gets some opposition.
Perhaps read my posts and you will understand them though I doubt your brain capacity has grown over the past years, 8 years ago when you ran away to make your own community it certainly was lacking.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 14, 2015, 05:35:49 pm
And I have made it clear that I give the leader rope to hang themselves... within limits.

Are you intent on destroying the community you pay for? By the looks of it you are.
Thanks for the rope though, it has helped me get water out of my well for the past few months rather successfully.
With that said it has also led to the community growing from the stagnant state it was in after the last "team" left.

If you would like it back I am sure we can work something out.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 05:36:39 pm
Word.

Time to step down Gandalf, let Teddy and others take over the decision making process. They have great plans and are ready to make them a reality, they know what the community needs, and they are listening to the people of Argonath, which is exceptional in the history of Argonath itself. Only thing keeping them back is you, sadly.
If I step down there is no more Argonath.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: JackWhite on July 14, 2015, 05:38:29 pm
Wihu, finally people realized what Argonath is all about, took you some time though  :hah:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 14, 2015, 05:39:22 pm
If I step down there is no more Argonath.

I guess same faith will happen like happen to AB-Playground community. Argonath may vanish, but people will gathering up and recreate something new and worth-full.

Remember the times you and the rest of Mightiest Swedes made up your own community because it didn't go the way you and your buddies wanted it to go!? Do you feel us now?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Hamza_Khan on July 14, 2015, 05:39:37 pm
Well.. you can report rather then just say that shit, i would stop posting because thats better for me.
i wouldn't really care about your thoughts so could you just keep your thoughts to yourself
Oh Please, don't twist my words, it is simple you don't care for my thoughts and we don't care about your thoughts because currently they seems to be very useless, and you are lacking in understanding it, I can't argue with someone who fails when it comes to thinking.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:42:15 pm
Oh Please, don't twist my words, it is simple you don't care for my thoughts and we don't care about your thoughts because currently they seems to be very useless, and you are lacking in understanding it, I can't argue with someone who fails when it comes to thinking.
Like am trying to argue.......... am just looking at the forums and what pepole are saying, why they fuck would you put your nose in my stuff? you can leave me alone or go fuck yourself :/
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 14, 2015, 05:44:06 pm
Like am trying to argue.......... am just looking at the forums and what pepole are saying, why they fuck would you put your nose in my stuff? you can leave me alone or go fuck yourself :/

Please stop distracting people from my suicide rope, thank you.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:45:23 pm
Please stop distracting people from my suicide rope, thank you.
As you wish.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 05:46:22 pm
I agree, but as I said earlier in the topic:

Gandalf hasn't fulfilled his ownership position actively at all within the last few years besides paying for the server. At the same time, HQ members were left to wait for him for months and months to make a simple decision before they could move on and implent a regulation or a new script.. which is ridicilous. Above that, Gandalf hasn't been around for the past couple of years actively yet appears to think that the vision he once created would still be suitable to Argonath anno 2015. Which it is not.

On top of everything, our beloved owner shows up in the topic to flag other people's imput and constructive ideas as rants without contributing anything productive himself besides continueing the discussion on the topic with his ideology from the MTA:VC era.
I guess you do not understand that SA:MP isn ot the only server here, and might under circumstances also not be at all here.
HQ members have always been free to take decisions just as they are now, that they were not doing it shows that maybe some were not fir to be leaders. As for the vision, it was as valid in 2009 as it is today, just look as the people who still remeber the same discussion being held at that time.
Thoguh the people discussing then would find the current rules heaven, as things have changed since then. Just some pricks who prefer to roleplay good roleplayers want to be listened to.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Hamza_Khan on July 14, 2015, 05:49:25 pm
Like am trying to argue.......... am just looking at the forums and what pepole are saying, why they fuck would you put your nose in my stuff? you can leave me alone or go fuck yourself :/
Yet again you proved yourself an immature mentally unstable person, who comes out of his shell very easily using abusive language and mixing the context, don't know what are you up to achieve on this forums with your useless posts, and I'm out of it, please refrain from quoting my posts.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Louis H on July 14, 2015, 05:50:22 pm
I come onto the forums for the first time in a few weeks to read something and I see server leaders and owners arguing in a public topic. If you're going to argue with each other at least do it privately...

RIP Argonath RPG.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 05:50:30 pm
Yet again you proved yourself an immature mentally unstable person, who comes out of his shell very easily using abusive language and mixing the context, don't know what are you up to achieve on this forums with your useless posts, and I'm out of it, please refrain from quoting my posts.
Haven't you seen Devin's post? Quit it
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 05:52:03 pm
If you're going to argue with each other at least do it privately...

He's ignoring me privately. He's obsessed with this topic.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Que on July 14, 2015, 05:52:28 pm
And you are still the same idiot who wants his way to be the only way and goes in to a baby crying spell when he gets some opposition.
Perhaps read my posts and you will understand them though I doubt your brain capacity has grown over the past years, 8 years ago when you ran away to make your own community it certainly was lacking.
Oh, you mean that community you laughed at even then and you made fun of our donate button, then a year later you were begging people to donate with your own donate button so you could get around?

Yeah, that was one hell of a time and I see yet today that you clearly are too fucking proud to even think differently or apologize to anyone because you're the almighty Gandalf. Of course you're not even a bit happy that veterans who are still here has been serving your community with activity, groups and ideas while you are doing nothing at all. My respect for your grudgy face is long gone and I wish you the best of luck with your anti-change attitude. At least be a little bit proud of the ones who's still fighting for this community and calling them to quit  or giving them ropes is one big idiotic move. Show some f**cking respect to them.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pandalink on July 14, 2015, 05:52:44 pm
If you feel a discussion should be about how great everyone is go to a gay website.
you've clearly never been to a gay website :lol:

I guess same faith will happen like happen to AB-Playground community. Argonath may vanish, but people will gathering up and recreate something new and worth-full.
There's nothing stopping people from doing this. It does however take a lot of money, resources, time, commitment, technical skill and leadership skills to create a server and community that will last.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Khm on July 14, 2015, 05:58:25 pm
A lot clearly forgot what they were in their first registration date and that they are not doing a favor by playing here. Like HQ said before this is not a democratic place and we're all here for fun for what Argonath was when we first entered and for our friends. Really miss when Aragorn was around..
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 14, 2015, 05:59:32 pm
There's nothing stopping people from doing this. It does however take a lot of money, resources, time, commitment, technical skill and leadership skills to create a server and community that will last.

I'm not saying I will, but clear your minds and get up straight, we are thinking in wrong directions. We should stay up for what we have been fighting for, not exclude yourself and recreate something that has been working for so many years.

I think Argonath is ready for a change, but we have to do that with Gandalf. Stop the bullshit that spreading like cancer in this topic. We have to keep fighting for what ARGONATH really stands for; Not "A world of its own" but rather a A COMMUNITY OF ITS OWN!

Gandalf, I like you. But I also like Teddy, Devin and a few others. Just like how I loved Konjak and few other legends from the AB time.

If this continue like right now, I will resign from this community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:02:18 pm
@Gandalf

This is a joke. We look like kids... we're here fighting with each other. We're suppose to be a team, this isn't a team. You won't answer my Skype messages for two days... yet you have people here taking "Gandalf vrs HQ vrs Players vrs Veterans" side.

It isn't the mature thing to do... why don't you get on TeamSpeak with us and resolve this.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Frank_Hawk on July 14, 2015, 06:08:19 pm
Any word on when Kojak is coming back?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:08:56 pm
Any word on when Kojak is coming back?

Never sadly.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Sandi on July 14, 2015, 06:09:27 pm
Why dont we just get some alcohol and calm down a bit?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Malik. on July 14, 2015, 06:09:57 pm
Why dont we just get some alcohol and calm down a bit?
Community is underage, denied.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Slavik on July 14, 2015, 06:10:16 pm
Why dont we just get some alcohol and calm down a bit?
Might be a bad idea
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Jack Rosso on July 14, 2015, 06:10:58 pm
Why dont we just get some alcohol and calm down a bit?

No, that didn't work out too well for Jaaskaa last time. Lets not get into that.



I guess you do not understand that SA:MP isn ot the only server here, and might under circumstances also not be at all here.
HQ members have always been free to take decisions just as they are now, that they were not doing it shows that maybe some were not fir to be leaders. As for the vision, it was as valid in 2009 as it is today, just look as the people who still remeber the same discussion being held at that time.
Thoguh the people discussing then would find the current rules heaven, as things have changed since then. Just some pricks who prefer to roleplay good roleplayers want to be listened to.

What many find an issue is that even although they spend time and effort into the community by creating idea's and attempting to establish something within the community it nevertheless immediately gets denied because it does not fit or suit the vision that was once, many years ago, created as it back then suited the community. Many, including SA:MP HQ team, believe that the vision is outdated and no longer fits the community as it currently is. (This does not only mean SA:MP, but also its other divisions ... don't forget that SA:MP has always been the biggest division on Argonath and has influenced the community to what it is today.) Then you come in, even although you have been inactive for a long period of time, not contributing to the community other than paying the monthly bills and showing up during a shitstorm, and you just flag the constructive ideas of those who have contributed a lot to the community lately by spending their time and effort creating ideas and working things out in-game.

You're ignoring other HQ members when they need you, you've not been there impenting changes when it was necessarily and you remain stuck in this old fashioned ideology that does no longer work in Argonath RPG 2015. Its good to see the SA:MP HQ Team has a different ''vision'' and infact implented some changes that would never have happened if it wasn't for the old team being removed leaving the community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:11:07 pm
@Gandalf

This is a joke. We look like kids... we're here fighting with each other. We're suppose to be a team, this isn't a team. You won't answer my Skype messages for two days... yet you have people here taking "Gandalf vrs HQ vrs Players vrs Veterans" side.

It isn't the mature thing to do... why don't you get on TeamSpeak with us and resolve this.

Let's keep this on every page so he can't ignore it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: JackWhite on July 14, 2015, 06:11:45 pm
Let's keep this on every page so he can't ignore it.
If he wants to ignore it, he ignores it, lol.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:12:13 pm
If he wants to ignore it, he ignores it, lol.

Ain't that the truth :D
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Axison on July 14, 2015, 06:12:25 pm
Lets just move on with whatever it is the HQ has planned. So far its been good but this topic is cancerous and we don't want it to spread any further.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 06:13:29 pm
I hope this topic gets removed as fast as possible.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:13:43 pm
Lets just move on with whatever it is the HQ has planned. So far its been good but this topic is cancerous and we don't want it to spread any further.

We intend to do so, we have not yet been instructed by Gandalf otherwise.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 06:14:55 pm
We intend to do so, we have not yet been instructed by Gandalf otherwise.
Why do you have to wait for gandalf to tell you to move on or someshit? if this continues on there, something bad will happend.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Axison on July 14, 2015, 06:15:40 pm
We intend to do so, we have not yet been instructed by Gandalf otherwise.
You guys have made decisions that made a positive impact on the community and its players. So lets keep it that way. If Gandalf does not want these changes then too bad.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Khm on July 14, 2015, 06:16:19 pm
Why do you have to wait for gandalf to tell you to move on or someshit? if this continues on there, something bad will happend.
He wasn't talking with you..
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:16:21 pm
Why do you have to wait for gandalf to tell you to move on or someshit? if this continues on there, something bad will happend.

We are not the last team, we don't wait for Gandalf. Gandalf has given us some room to work with and we intend to utilize the room. Sorry, I mean a rope. It's a rope. Until Gandalf cuts that rope, or takes it back... or whatever he intends to do with his rope... we will continue working with and for you, the community.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 06:17:11 pm
We are not the last team, we don't wait for Gandalf. Gandalf has given us some room to work with and we intend to utilize the room. Sorry, I mean a rope. It's a rope. Until Gandalf cuts that rope, or takes it back... or whatever he intends to do with his rope... we will continue working with and for you, the community.
Explains alot..
thanks teddy
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 14, 2015, 06:17:59 pm
The rope of wonders, throw some butter on one end of it and the problems are resolved.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Chris_Knight on July 14, 2015, 06:18:15 pm
Why do you have to wait for gandalf to tell you to move on or someshit? if this continues on there, something bad will happend.
Can you just stop posting that nonsense of yours, which is completely unrelated to any discussion going on.

You haven't been here enough long to even come up with anything healthy.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Celso on July 14, 2015, 06:18:57 pm
we will continue working with and for you, the community.
Tbh the way it should always be done!
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: JackWhite on July 14, 2015, 06:19:23 pm
Can you just stop posting that nonsense of yours, which is completely unrelated to any discussion going on.

You haven't been here enough long to even come up with anything healthy.
/whenmade
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Axison on July 14, 2015, 06:19:34 pm

@Gandalf

This is a joke. We look like kids... we're here fighting with each other. We're suppose to be a team, this isn't a team. You won't answer my Skype messages for two days... yet you have people here taking "Gandalf vrs HQ vrs Players vrs Veterans" side.

It isn't the mature thing to do... why don't you get on TeamSpeak with us and resolve this.

Let's keep this on every page so he can't ignore it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:19:53 pm
You haven't been here enough long to even come up with anything healthy.

Why would the ideas of anyone be considered less valuable than the next? People who play here deserve the same equality in their voice for this community as anyone one of us. Having this negative view against people simply for their time here is what is unhealthy.

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Cofiliano on July 14, 2015, 06:20:25 pm
I say lets blame Stof for all of this. He wouldn't mind, would you bro?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 14, 2015, 06:20:40 pm
 :v:

(http://www.foundalis.com/phy/bucket.gif)
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Axison on July 14, 2015, 06:22:16 pm
(http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2012/06/snip-snip.jpg)
@Devin
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 06:22:28 pm
I say lets blame Stof for all of this. He wouldn't mind, would you bro?
I dont see Stof doing anything wrong:/
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 06:22:30 pm
(http://img.mylot.com/350x350/2608128.jpg)
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 06:23:02 pm
(http://img.mylot.com/350x350/2608128.jpg)
RIP Teddy
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Ivan_MC on July 14, 2015, 06:23:45 pm
I dont see Stof doing anything wrong:/
If you were abit older you would've seen that.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: AK47 on July 14, 2015, 06:24:13 pm
I dont see Stof doing anything wrong:/

this is why you need to stop posting completly unrelated posts
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 14, 2015, 06:28:57 pm
:v:

(http://www.foundalis.com/phy/bucket.gif)

That's a golden bucket. Put some bacon and egg and over a fire. Can probably become a good dinner for someone who's hungry!

 :balance:

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 06:50:42 pm
Our conversations shouldn't get leaked here then ^.^

But on point... Gandalf does pay for this server and he did build it up. We don't want him to leave, we want him to step and take responsibility. We want him to become an active participant, don't forget those of you saying shitting on vets... he himself is a veteran... he is the first player. However what needs to be different is less dependency on an outdated vision, and more open discussions with the community that are productive and progressive. If the owner gets involved in that and is willing to listen and keep and open mind.... the level of progression we can make would truly be historic in this community.
As usual people seem not to read or not to understand what is written. The reason I invested in this topic is to discuss how to make the changes people are asking and the leaders are willing to make while keeping things fair for all.
This is why I brought forward our old line of thought and what situations could arise on changing some aspects of how players need to behave.
It is interesting that instead of bringing forward solutions to what I put as food for thought, those who are requesting changes immediately go in to attack mode. They can not provide solutions so they blame it om my inactivity and creating the strawman that I am unwilling to let change happen.
If you have read the posts (apart from the snipes, those are just my trolls) you should notice that I am posing the possible downside of proporsed rules. That is not to stop them from happening or being against them, but to get a solution for them.

What is most important to me is that the leadership and adminsitration are fair towards all players, both new ones and veterans. If a rule change means fairness is not guaranteed, it should at least be determined how to handle that without making things impossible to enforce.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 06:58:55 pm
and we've stayed generally within those limits out of respect for you... yet you do nothing but f**cking ignore us and insult the person who has more access to your community than you? Very smart. Luckily for you I am trustworthy and won't do anything stupid with that access.
If you are unable to separat constructive discussion from criticism then you need to get a better perspective.
Your comments about ceasing hostility work against the actual discussion, just let things go and after some pages it either ends or turns construtive.
For the rest, if I ever doubted you in any way you would never had the access you have.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:03:17 pm
Are you intent on destroying the community you pay for? By the looks of it you are.
Thanks for the rope though, it has helped me get water out of my well for the past few months rather successfully.
With that said it has also led to the community growing from the stagnant state it was in after the last "team" left.

If you would like it back I am sure we can work something out.
Look up the expression and you might understand waht I mean there.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:08:00 pm
I guess same faith will happen like happen to AB-Playground community. Argonath may vanish, but people will gathering up and recreate something new and worth-full.

Remember the times you and the rest of Mightiest Swedes made up your own community because it didn't go the way you and your buddies wanted it to go!? Do you feel us now?
Do not misrepresent the story. On AB the owner was in course of events, just he listened to power-hungry leadrers who did not listen to the players. Here it seems the leaders try to listen but the effect is doubtful...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:13:53 pm
@Gandalf

This is a joke. We look like kids... we're here fighting with each other. We're suppose to be a team, this isn't a team. You won't answer my Skype messages for two days... yet you have people here taking "Gandalf vrs HQ vrs Players vrs Veterans" side.

It isn't the mature thing to do... why don't you get on TeamSpeak with us and resolve this.
You know well enough that Skye is not the place to contact me nowadays. Takes too much time when I am stressed with other work.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:19:52 pm
No, that didn't work out too well for Jaaskaa last time. Lets not get into that.



What many find an issue is that even although they spend time and effort into the community by creating idea's and attempting to establish something within the community it nevertheless immediately gets denied because it does not fit or suit the vision that was once, many years ago, created as it back then suited the community. Many, including SA:MP HQ team, believe that the vision is outdated and no longer fits the community as it currently is. (This does not only mean SA:MP, but also its other divisions ... don't forget that SA:MP has always been the biggest division on Argonath and has influenced the community to what it is today.) Then you come in, even although you have been inactive for a long period of time, not contributing to the community other than paying the monthly bills and showing up during a shitstorm, and you just flag the constructive ideas of those who have contributed a lot to the community lately by spending their time and effort creating ideas and working things out in-game.

You're ignoring other HQ members when they need you, you've not been there impenting changes when it was necessarily and you remain stuck in this old fashioned ideology that does no longer work in Argonath RPG 2015. Its good to see the SA:MP HQ Team has a different ''vision'' and infact implented some changes that would never have happened if it wasn't for the old team being removed leaving the community.
Once again there is nowhere that I have said ideas should not be tried or used. All I have been doing in the beginning ofthe topic is put forward the possible problems.
That a number of people react to this as that I am stopping the ideas is simply a strawman. They seemly can not bring constructive replies so they start avoiding the topic and question, derailing it by blaming my inactivity instead of trying to bring a solution.
I am in full support of HQ and their efforts, just wih both HQ and player to work together on possible problems that the implementation of certain rules can bring. I may e inactive, but there is a reason we did things how we did them, this is brought forwardto players as well as HQ so that if a decision is taken to go forward or not at least everyone has had their say and its not blamed on the Vision or anything else that had no part in it.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 07:20:16 pm
You know well enough that Skye is not the place to contact me nowadays. Takes too much time when I am stressed with other work.
Contacting you on skype and you not responding isn't really a problem to me, because i know you will respone afterwards also i know you have some stuff you have to deal with irl so :3
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:22:08 pm
We intend to do so, we have not yet been instructed by Gandalf otherwise.
And I do not intend to interfere in it, just now and then give food for thought.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: clancker on July 14, 2015, 07:23:31 pm
The way i see it right now, bunch of people that lead the community jump and fight with each other like morons over and over, passing the ball to each other and blaming it to the others, however this is not the way to deal with the problem. In the one hand are the people that want change, but before you people jump in here with bunch of requests think first, there are much questions about making those changes that you want, it's not impossible too. However the things you have to think about is, how those changes will affect the community, how they will be surely enforced, how they will be added at first, thats the point after all. Sorry for the strong language.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 07:24:27 pm
The way i see it right now, bunch of people that lead the community jump and fight with each other like morons over and over, passing the ball to each other and blaming it to the others, however this is not the way to deal with the problem. In the one hand are the people that want change, but before you people jump in here with bunch of requests think first, there are much questions about making those changes that you want, it's not impossible too. However the things you have to think about is, how those changes will affect the community, how they will be surely enforced, how they will be added at first, thats the point after all. Sorry for the strong language.
I 100% Agree wid ya
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:24:52 pm
Contacting you on skype and you not responding isn't really a problem to me, because i know you will respone afterwards also i know you have some stuff you have to deal with irl so :3
You were lucky, it can take weeks sometimes. :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 07:25:58 pm
You were lucky, it can take weeks sometimes. :lol:
Well Mission completed!  :bananav: now i can spam your skyupe <3
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Axison on July 14, 2015, 07:26:17 pm
I 100% Agree wid ya
Can you stop posting please?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:31:03 pm
The way i see it right now, bunch of people that lead the community jump and fight with each other like morons over and over, passing the ball to each other and blaming it to the others, however this is not the way to deal with the problem. In the one hand are the people that want change, but before you people jump in here with bunch of requests think first, there are much questions about making those changes that you want, it's not impossible too. However the things you have to think about is, how those changes will affect the community, how they will be surely enforced, how they will be added at first, thats the point after all. Sorry for the strong language.
That indeed is the point, and that is what I have been trying to do before everyone got scared I might interfere.
I am used to look at something from all sides, which is needed because people rarely choose to follow exactly what you intended them to follow.
Every rule and script has to be checked and secured for abuse from both players and administration, it has to be clear when someone abuses it on how and by who it was done.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 14, 2015, 07:31:12 pm
In my opinion, the following stuff should be done:

Leadership
The current leadership is vague. Do we even have community leaders? If yes, what may they do? Are server staff supposed to listen to them?

Let's go over the organisation and HQ to clearly review the structure and adjust if necessary.

Development
This is fine currently. A clear roadmap exists and solid progress is made. Maybe bring a little more progress indicators to the table. I know Teddy has a to-do manager in use somewhere. Use it!

Roleplay
My biggest concern is roleplay, with the government in particular. There's no clear leadership causing many initiatives to be frustrated or end prematurely. What we need is the Provisional Parliament to be enacted as lawmakers. There is a room for political roleplay as time has shown again and again. I really cannot wait for a parliment debate in-game!

On the other hand, also the Courts need an update. It should not be judges who make the laws either. Speaking of judges, progress is too slow and the RS4 era highly active courts have come to a slow ever since the courts were "closed". Appoint a new head Judge if you have to, but make sure it gets active. There's loads of cases to be handled, especially with an updated constitution!

With a new constitution, we come to law enforcement. It obviously needs clear leadership, guidance, laws and regulations. Make sure they get that!

With these basic changes (there are obviously much more!), we should be able to get this community back on track. As always, the main focus should be introducing more or new roleplay!
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 07:47:15 pm
In my opinion, the following stuff should be done:

Leadership
The current leadership is vague. Do we even have community leaders? If yes, what may they do? Are server staff supposed to listen to them?

Let's go over the organisation and HQ to clearly review the structure and adjust if necessary.

Development
This is fine currently. A clear roadmap exists and solid progress is made. Maybe bring a little more progress indicators to the table. I know Teddy has a to-do manager in use somewhere. Use it!

Roleplay
My biggest concern is roleplay, with the government in particular. There's no clear leadership causing many initiatives to be frustrated or end prematurely. What we need is the Provisional Parliament to be enacted as lawmakers. There is a room for political roleplay as time has shown again and again. I really cannot wait for a parliment debate in-game!

On the other hand, also the Courts need an update. It should not be judges who make the laws either. Speaking of judges, progress is too slow and the RS4 era highly active courts have come to a slow ever since the courts were "closed". Appoint a new head Judge if you have to, but make sure it gets active. There's loads of cases to be handled, especially with an updated constitution!

With a new constitution, we come to law enforcement. It obviously needs clear leadership, guidance, laws and regulations. Make sure they get that!

With these basic changes (there are obviously much more!), we should be able to get this community back on track. As always, the main focus should be introducing more or new roleplay!

Leadership:
With as good as all community leaders inactive or retired, it is up to the server leaders to form and manage their team including finding replacements should they wish to retire. In cases that are involving more than one server the leaders should get together and make a joint decision. For emergencies I am usually available, as for the hardware this is currently in the able hands of Teddy, who does need some assistance.

Development:
After the recent change everyone seems positive about the development, at least on SA:MP ;) No need for changes.

Roleplay:
The changes that are made by HQ need to settle before we can judge them. As for government (and civilian in general) roleplay we have been wanting this for ages, unfortunately it has always gotten stuck at the point where responsibilities and powers come in to play.
In our idea the government would actually get the possibility to do something, however this must be separated from rules and admin work.
Also government would require civilians, and one of the largest issues is the lack of those.

A constitution and laws should be clear, but also not conflict with the rules. This has been an issue with bith making laws and regulations, and has led to a lot of frustration in the past. Also a constitution and derivate laws should not become filled with unneeded rules that try to implement every situation. As recently discussed, the Court cases are to provide explanation the law should be short and applicable universally.

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 14, 2015, 07:51:25 pm
The changes that are made by HQ need to settle before we can judge them. As for government (and civilian in general) roleplay we have been wanting this for ages, unfortunately it has always gotten stuck at the point where responsibilities and powers come in to play.
In our idea the government would actually get the possibility to do something, however this must be separated from rules and admin work.
Also government would require civilians, and one of the largest issues is the lack of those.

A constitution and laws should be clear, but also not conflict with the rules. This has been an issue with bith making laws and regulations, and has led to a lot of frustration in the past. Also a constitution and derivate laws should not become filled with unneeded rules that try to implement every situation. As recently discussed, the Court cases are to provide explanation the law should be short and applicable universally.

Seperation from rules and admin work - yes, a parliament should be strictly focussed on making and amending laws.
Lack of civilians - no, there's a group of five already that have formed a parliament, and at least 10 others that are looking to run a political campaign.
Court/constitution - The constitution is in urgent need of a rewrite. I'm not talking about changing the basic ideas or rights, but more in terms of an update to present date. Also, a lot of things conflict in the current laws or is outdated/RS4 era.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Malik. on July 14, 2015, 08:01:29 pm
I 100% Agree wid ya
What are you doing like for real, haha. You don't provide any help unless saying 'yes, i agree' 'no i don't agree'. You even replied for things that weren't meant for you. Please stop posthunting.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Spike. on July 14, 2015, 08:12:29 pm
I haven't seen this many replies since people were waiting for RS5.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Axison on July 14, 2015, 08:19:12 pm
I haven't seen this many replies since people were waiting for RS5.
There've been many.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 09:46:23 pm
Seperation from rules and admin work - yes, a parliament should be strictly focussed on making and amending laws.
Lack of civilians - no, there's a group of five already that have formed a parliament, and at least 10 others that are looking to run a political campaign.
Court/constitution - The constitution is in urgent need of a rewrite. I'm not talking about changing the basic ideas or rights, but more in terms of an update to present date. Also, a lot of things conflict in the current laws or is outdated/RS4 era.
The problem is to find voters that do not try to bring in corruption. :lol:
The Supreme Judge has announced a rewrite in February, but so far has not notified me of the update.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stivi on July 14, 2015, 09:51:17 pm
I vote for Pizza to get muted.

Just my opinion on the matter.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 09:54:43 pm
I vote for Pizza to get muted.

Just my opinion on the matter.
Why? Posthunting has not been working for a long time and frankly speaking the provokers telling someone to shut up and stop posting are more annoying...
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stivi on July 14, 2015, 10:04:48 pm
Why? Posthunting has not been working for a long time and frankly speaking the provokers telling someone to shut up and stop posting are more annoying...
It's actually funny to read, but he's really missing the point and I guess everyone would like to see the leaders and the players reaching to a decision that's good for both parties, instead of some dude with the IQ of a mole.

Here:



Well Mission completed!  :bananav: now i can spam your skyupe <3

I 100% Agree wid ya

Contacting you on skype and you not responding isn't really a problem to me, because i know you will respone afterwards also i know you have some stuff you have to deal with irl so :3

RIP Teddy

Explains alot..
thanks teddy

I hope this topic gets removed as fast as possible.

As you wish.

Haven't you seen Devin's post? Quit it

Like am trying to argue.......... am just looking at the forums and what pepole are saying, why they fuck would you put your nose in my stuff? you can leave me alone or go fuck yourself :/

Well.. you can report rather then just say that shit, i would stop posting because thats better for me.
i wouldn't really care about your thoughts so could you just keep your thoughts to yourself

Oh lord, now pepole are gonna blame me for being a dickhead......., i said not me :/ am just sayin some pepole

Why do you care?

I want to quote that some pepole think you're very ignorant and powerhunger teddy, just sayin that ain't me....

*facepalm*   :neutral2: Great. this is getting childish..., guys lets just stop

Screw it, i'll just look at the forum getting flooded with this "discussion"

i agree...

Yup

All i understand what the fuck is going on is moaning and flaming and a bunch of non sense.... :/

Gandalf still owns it and he makes his decision or not :/, why would gandalf step down and leave his community that he made?

Thats why i see pepole judging each other :/

Whats up with the attitude guys? cmon now....

Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:09:54 pm
It's actually funny to read, but he's really missing the point and I guess everyone would like to see the leaders and the players reaching to a decision that's good for both parties, instead of some dude with the IQ of a mole.

Here:



if every post needs to be well-thought and constructive we need a lot of board modertators. :balance:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Leon. on July 14, 2015, 10:10:15 pm
This topic was originally supposed to be constructive, not destructive, right?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 10:21:33 pm
This topic was originally supposed to be constructive, not destructive, right?
Yup. Until some people decided that they might not get their way if based on reason and started ad hominem hoping to get it in to oblivion.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Leroy_Kolta on July 14, 2015, 10:39:36 pm
So if I understand this correctly, the OP was just stating that the problem was with the person not wanting to roleplay.
How did it get into such this big of a discussion so quickly?

What's the actual problem?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Malik. on July 14, 2015, 10:50:34 pm
So if I understand this correctly, the OP was just stating that the problem was with the person not wanting to roleplay.
How did it get into such this big of a discussion so quickly?

What's the actual problem?
Problem ist where are my clothes.
Alot of people got diffrent opinions, they got mashed up in here pretty much.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 10:52:08 pm
Why? Posthunting has not been working for a long time and frankly speaking the provokers telling someone to shut up and stop posting are more annoying...
and rude, why cant pepole be nice :/
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Malik. on July 14, 2015, 10:56:46 pm
and rude, why cant pepole be nice :/
People tend to get irritated by people who don't participate in seeking for a solution rather than get a high number on their posts.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 14, 2015, 11:01:20 pm
So if I understand this correctly, the OP was just stating that the problem was with the person not wanting to roleplay.
How did it get into such this big of a discussion so quickly?

What's the actual problem?
The problem is that leadership has promised to move to a more 'forced' roleplay and people believe that is against my wishes or the Vision. Those are the people who probably have been fed lies for a long time, as I am as much against the /soz busy and /dontwannarp messages and have actually punished people for them more than once.
My point was that while we should get rid of people too busy pharming to interact with others actually enforcing such a thing would bring a number of risks of unfair punishment as may not be able to witness it happening and are not allowed to punish based on report alone.
This seems to lead to people believing I will block things and getting butthurt already before anything is done.

Instead of offering solutions for possible unfairness they start with verbal attacks, as when you have no solution the best option is to attack and riducule the person noticing the problem.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 11:03:54 pm
People tend to get irritated by people who don't participate in seeking for a solution rather than get a high number on their posts.
To be honest, am not that kinda person who wants to have alot of posts on his account :/
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Manoni on July 14, 2015, 11:09:57 pm
Then stop and let the discussion continue as its supossed to be, please. Your comments have been derailing this for a few pages now and you still can't realize that it would be better if you stop replying unless you have something to say related to the subject in the topic rather than just posting that you agree with what others are saying and/or answering people that is telling you to not answer anymore. Trying to explain you this in the most peaceful way, we are all here to share our opinions on an important matter that is concerning in the SA:MP server, you are not doing that so please, stop.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pizza4_Games on July 14, 2015, 11:13:21 pm
Then stop and let the discussion continue as its supossed to be, please. Your comments have been derailing this for a few pages now and you still can't realize that it would be better if you stop replying unless you have something to say related to the subject in the topic rather than just posting that you agree with what others are saying and/or answering people that is telling you to not answer anymore. Trying to explain you this in the most peaceful way, we are all here to share our opinions on an important matter that is concerning in the SA:MP server, you are not doing that so please, stop.
Okay then
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Zaila on July 14, 2015, 11:22:25 pm
With that said it has also led to the community growing from the stagnant state it was in after the last "team" left.

So it was all my, xcasios and Conroys fault ye?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Bundy on July 14, 2015, 11:25:05 pm
So it was all my, xcasios and Conroys fault ye?
There wouldn't be a problem if you listened to your community instead of rushing to release an unfinished script.

wb btw
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Cyril on July 14, 2015, 11:26:26 pm
So it was all my, xcasios and Conroys fault ye?

Yes.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: TiMoN on July 14, 2015, 11:26:44 pm
Instead of being a general idiot and going "pls i dont want to roleplay" try to reason with the attacker in a more proper way. Such when getting robbed, you could beg the thief not to steal from you as you're a poor man who tries to help his family, or you want to feed your sick child who has 3 arms.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Pandalink on July 14, 2015, 11:33:49 pm
There wouldn't be a problem if you listened to your community instead of rushing to release an unfinished script.
yea sure, roll back RS4 to the months-old backup only to release RS5 a few months later

that would have gone down really well

Yes.
lol
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 14, 2015, 11:43:13 pm
Instead of being a general idiot and going "pls i dont want to roleplay" try to reason with the attacker in a more proper way. Such when getting robbed, you could beg the thief not to steal from you as you're a poor man who tries to help his family, or you want to feed your sick child who has 3 arms.

That would work if people wouldn't carry weapons all the time and were actually afraid to die. Everyone in Argonath is superhuman no-feared beast.

There wouldn't be a problem if you listened to your community instead of rushing to release an unfinished script.

Everyone was complaining about how RS5 was taking too long so they released it. A true beta testing team and keeping away the vague promises about the date of release would've solved that.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Zaila on July 14, 2015, 11:48:38 pm
There wouldn't be a problem if you listened to your community instead of rushing to release an unfinished script.

wb btw

And you obviously either have no idea about why it was released in that state or simply forgot. As i said in the past, we wished we had more time but in that current time, it was a lose-lose situation no matter what we did. Besides, it wasn't my decision alone, it was a decision made by the scripter team at that time togheter with Gandalf.

And i'm not back.

Yes.

Obviously. =)
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 14, 2015, 11:52:59 pm
Nobody is here to play the blame game... well at least they shouldn't be....

There should be respect for the contributions people have made to this community.

There is undoubtedly a significant increase, by at least 110%, in development activity including a balance between bug fixes, new features, and introduction of intended functionality since the last team. Whatever obstacle you guys had is not one which affect us. This is what Devin was meaning by his statement.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Leroy_Kolta on July 15, 2015, 12:23:42 am
The problem is that leadership has promised to move to a more 'forced' roleplay and people believe that is against my wishes or the Vision. Those are the people who probably have been fed lies for a long time, as I am as much against the /soz busy and /dontwannarp messages and have actually punished people for them more than once.
My point was that while we should get rid of people too busy pharming to interact with others actually enforcing such a thing would bring a number of risks of unfair punishment as may not be able to witness it happening and are not allowed to punish based on report alone.
This seems to lead to people believing I will block things and getting butthurt already before anything is done.

Instead of offering solutions for possible unfairness they start with verbal attacks, as when you have no solution the best option is to attack and riducule the person noticing the problem.
I gotcha.

So instead of pointing fingers at everyone and criticizing every little thing and arguing with each other, can we then in turn discuss possible solutions to this?
I'm sure as a group we would be able to accomplish such a task if everyone stops trying to get their point through and focus on some facts that need facing.



Come on guys, we're better than this. While the owner is investing and looking in this topic, let's have a more positive reaction to this instead of complaining on what's been going on. Let's change things for the best here.

I know by me saying this I offer no solution at the moment, but that will change when I get more time to dedicate to this.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Rusty on July 15, 2015, 07:24:02 am
Good read guys.
On the other side, topic was about role-playing so show of hands on who actually does that in-game?  I can see a few names that come to mind, just not everyone in the topic sadly.

If Gandalf ain't mind us listening to community wanting a better role-play environment and allowing us to go through with it after thoughtful discussion then am all for doing just that, but the player's need to adapt and step up their game not stay with the same raggity ass basic roleplay they used too. 

Back to sleep.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: DarkShadowBlade on July 15, 2015, 08:43:30 am
Wow, have just logged back onto the forums after like 4 months or such only to see this.

All I have to say is, the server stayed alive (somewhat) through RS5 only because of the friendships, and that was possible because the community is small and most people know each other. Teddy is moving the server forward by developing it, and thus the community will get larger and larger. If the development is shit, the community will be shit, and that's the reason why people started to leave more and more. Even though Gandalf is the owner, this is like the 3rd time (I think) that something really amazing is getting put down... LSPD, SFPD, and LVPD were all combined into one big department, taking away the separate roleplay each one had, then demolished freecop system so now everyone became SAPD, and now, kind of fighting the idea with the orange dots and what not.

The community is a light RP one, something I realized and others failed to... What Teddy is doing, is appropriate, the server is not copying other servers directly but instead gaining influence from others and building upon it in a unique way (This is the way the USA was built up in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century), thus the community thrives upon it and will attract more players keen to that roleplay standard. This isn't 2006 anymore, you can't keep the same vision forever and use it as an excuse to hold the server back. Argonath has a good community and it could've succeed but it failed because of the lack of development (Not HQs fault or the Scripting team) due to the vision and the common excuse we all know as: "Because Argonath."

Personally, I don't think I can ever come back to Argonath (not banned), but simply because I don't think it fits me, especially with all the arguments going on. I ignored the lies about "heavy rp servers punish you if you misspell a word" crap and went there, and I enjoy it, but I won't forget where I came from. I had a lot of fun here and won't forgot the memories and friendships I built here but honestly, the reason people leave argonath is because it feels "old," nothing was getting done, things weren't getting fixed, and thus the standard for everything dropped. In fact the only reason one would stay around is just to talk to people on /p as you drove around doing trucking. Gandalf should be proud that morons are getting weeded out from the server slowly every day as the server advances with unique and innovative things, things that won't attract them here but rather to some Cops n Robbers server. Holding the server back and using "the vision" as a reason will just lead to the server's standards going down again and the attraction of more moronic non-roleplayers coming by to DM and soak up the fun from those that are trying... You do need to develop the server if you want people to roleplay, like I said half a year ago:
(http://s11.postimg.org/6vubpnd1f/cap_2.png)

All in all, keep up the good work, try not to take a vision word for word and ruin what's being built. I doubt many will remember me, but regardless, was fun to come and see the new things Argonath is getting, hope the issues get solved soon and the community will thrive so others can enjoy it like I did. Like I said before (6 months ago or so) it's time to figure out if this server is supposed to be a freeroam one or a roleplaying one:
(http://s23.postimg.org/bjjmpzcy3/cap_1.png)


Anyways, I know some of you will just say "Go back to *censored*" I didn't come here from another community to start shit, just to state a valid opinion along with some facts (in an effort to at least get some to understand), so yeah...

Best of Luck...

The one and only,
DSB / DarkShadowBlade :depature:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Volcom on July 15, 2015, 10:43:40 am
And i'm not back.

If RS5 was really good you wasn't going to leave the server..
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Stof. on July 15, 2015, 12:45:53 pm
I say lets blame Stof for all of this. He wouldn't mind, would you bro?

Hahaha not at all

In all seriousness though I intended this to be a mutual discussion but I respect the arguement. It's all honest and real opinions out in the air which is good, exposing everyone...even Gandalf's downfalls. From seeing that hopefully these people take into account the things said about them and if they check themselves and find some truth that can start building on those negativities and be more productive. Because apart from all the foul shit passed on (it happens) every arguement in this topic is spitting some sort of truth, no matter how you look at it.
 
 
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 15, 2015, 01:14:54 pm
If RS5 was really good you wasn't going to leave the server..

Maybe he's trying this new game called: IRL.

Anyways, with all of this nonsense and poop talk what have we concluded? I'm actually not here for the fights but to read some suggestions. #foreveralone
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Volcom on July 15, 2015, 01:39:22 pm
Maybe he's trying this new game called: IRL.

wait, i have IRL too and i still play, im not so active like i was in past but i still play, so what you said makes no sense
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 15, 2015, 01:40:49 pm
wait, i have IRL too and i still play, im not so active like i was in past but i still play, so what you said makes no sense

Okey
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Teddy on July 15, 2015, 05:56:53 pm
Maybe he's trying this new game called: IRL.

This game has the best graphics I've ever seen. However the respawn system is buggy with no news on a patch for it, no PVP system (perma ban), and the NPC interactions are just awful. Sure it's also free to play but my god... these fucking pay to win mechanics are rigged beyond belief.

I would recommend he stop playing this game and wouldn't recommend anyone else try it. 2.5/10.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Diego on July 15, 2015, 06:08:23 pm
u can pvp as long as you don't get caught tho  :lol:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: .Matthew. on July 15, 2015, 06:57:24 pm
Next step - get hosted tab and boost advertisements, maybe make a nice one on SA-MP forums.
Nothing to do with 20 players. Reminds me of RS5 beginning when people were only talking on public chat.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Manoni on July 15, 2015, 07:18:59 pm
This game has the best graphics I've ever seen. However the respawn system is buggy with no news on a patch for it, no PVP system (perma ban), and the NPC interactions are just awful. Sure it's also free to play but my god... these f**cking pay to win mechanics are rigged beyond belief.

I would recommend he stop playing this game and wouldn't recommend anyone else try it. 2.5/10.

I still can't find the muscles + stamina cheatcode on that game.

Next step - get hosted tab and boost advertisements, maybe make a nice one on SA-MP forums.
Nothing to do with 20 players. Reminds me of RS5 beginning when people were only talking on public chat.

To do that we first need to have a complete script in the server.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 15, 2015, 07:33:28 pm
I'm willing to pay for hosted tab, I'm also able to do so as I got access for Game-mp.com.

However, I will await for more script improvement before doing so!  :D
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 15, 2015, 07:48:08 pm
Hosted tab is a waste of money. Proper, targetted advertising isn't.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Lustigkurre on July 15, 2015, 07:49:42 pm
hosted tab is worth the money
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Mr. Goobii on July 15, 2015, 07:50:25 pm
Hosted tab is a waste of money. Proper, targetted advertising isn't.

Whenever I go for another server, I check only hosted tab, sir..

Where would you wanna advertise then Marcel? On Facebook or what?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 15, 2015, 08:10:07 pm
Maybe we're like 8 years late but advertisement on social networks would be cool.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Frank_Hawk on July 15, 2015, 08:33:32 pm
The resolution to all our problems is to introduce cats ingame.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Morais on July 15, 2015, 08:40:28 pm
The resolution to all our problems is to introduce cats ingame.

Finally someone with a mind blowing idea. Welcome back as CL.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 15, 2015, 11:12:10 pm
So it was all my, xcasios and Conroys fault ye?
Considering the relative short time you were part I would never blame you. However the other two were constantly hovering in and out of inactivity and because of that lost the initial plot, their initial helpers were also not of any help. By the time you and others came in it was already more the cawse to get at least somehting released, and there you did a great job.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 15, 2015, 11:18:02 pm
The resolution to all our problems is to introduce cats ingame.
My cat is already on Skype, might try to get in game too...

And with respect to some of the harsher comments, it is our usual trick to hold a mirror. If someone places a constructive post I am ready to discuss it intelligently, if they start ranting or insulting they might get double back.
On the upside nobody should have been warned or banned regardless of the strong language used.
That is how we need to do it, you can insult me if you need to, just be ready to receive as much as you dish out, but never expect to be punished for your opinion as long as it does not result in vulgarity or other things that exceed the limits.

If we can not fight we can never reach progress.
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 15, 2015, 11:24:58 pm
Is that you indirectly asking for your rope back now?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Gandalf on July 15, 2015, 11:33:42 pm
Is that you indirectly asking for your rope back now?
Did you look up the expression yet?
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Devin on July 15, 2015, 11:36:49 pm
That would require effort, of that I have none left for extra mural work.  :pissed:
Title: Re: This is the problem.
Post by: Marcel on July 15, 2015, 11:44:20 pm
The resolution to all our problems is to introduce cats ingame.

Yes.

(http://imgur.com/71iQrJU.jpg)
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